iPod touch How thin is too thin??

[BaldiMac]

I never said that. Quote me where I said it should be an "iPhone quality" camera..

I apologize for assuming. You said that they sacrificed higher quality and focus for thinness. Didn't seem like much of a stretch to think that was a comparison to the iPhone. If you are not comparing it to the iPhone camera, what are you asking for?

BTW, people need to quit saying the Touch is a "music player", its stupid. Thats like saying the iPad is a music player. Obviously, these products all follow the same basic principals & are closely CLOSLY related to each other. Hell, they basically all run the same exact OS, have the same logic board, processor, apps, etc.

So can we all cut the "but but, its just a music player!" garbage. Its obviously not just a music player. This isn't 2005 & we're all not retarded.

Point taken. I was just differentiating it from a smartphone. No other implication. There isn't really a name for that class of device.

 

[dave1812dave]

There isn't really a name for that class of device.

HUH??? It's an iPod. Look on Apple's website. iPod is a class of device with several form factors to choose from. of course there's a name for it. do you think it's so magical, no one (including Apple) has been able to categorize it????

 

[BaldiMac]

HUH??? It's an iPod. Look on Apple's website. iPod is a class of device with several form factors to choose from. of course there's a name for it. do you think it's so magical, no one (including Apple) has been able to categorize it????

You completely missed the point. iPod is a brand name. I was talking about the class of device that iPod touch would be put in. It's not simply a digital music player. It's not in the same class as a slate or tablet. It's not a smartphone. It's not really just a PDA.

 

[Carouser]

HUH??? It's an iPod. Look on Apple's website. iPod is a class of device with several form factors to choose from. of course there's a name for it. do you think it's so magical, no one (including Apple) has been able to categorize it????

And I believe BaldiMac's argument suggests that we should compare it to other devices in its category. You say its category/class is 'iPod'. Great! Compare the functionality of the iPod Touch camera to the camera in other products in its class.

If you want to compare it to smartphones, the iPhone, etc., then you are comparing it to things of a different category, by your own emphatic definition.

 

[tubemonkey]

So? I never claimed that it did. What's your point?

The point is, the touch could have these extras without having to sell for twice as much. Just because the iPhone is overpriced is no reason the touch has to be overpriced.

 

[ascendedoshen]

I agree it is too thin for current technology

It is awkward and not easy to use efficiently hope case helps they should have put a proper camera larger battery etc and done it right rather than a meaningless form not following function which is meaningless and shallow and has no benefit! I'm still really disappointed in camera it totally sucks ass and is shameful showing how cheap Apple has become jus like Microsoft and let's not forget the light leakage issue showing they couldn't even do the half ass half assed!

 

[Carouser]

The point is, the touch could have these extras without having to sell for twice as much.

How much more than the current iPod would it have to sell for?
Would the increased cost simply reflect the cost to Apple for including said camera?
If so, would Apple sell enough units to cover the increased cost of including that improved camera?
Would Apple sell enough additional units to cover those people who now won't buy the iPod because it is now out of their price range?
How would Apple's increased demand for those camera internals affect their price and availability?
How much would any product delays (because of reduced availability of camera internals) affect profitability?

Unless one knows the answer to these questions, speculating that 'well Apple could have done it' is unfounded. They might have said 'we can't afford to put a better camera in either way, might as well make it thinner'.

 

[peestandingup]

I apologize for assuming. You said that they sacrificed higher quality and focus for thinness. Didn't seem like much of a stretch to think that was a comparison to the iPhone. If you are not comparing it to the iPhone camera, what are you asking for?

Point taken. I was just differentiating it from a smartphone. No other implication. There isn't really a name for that class of device.

No problem. The new iPhone is basically nearing point & shoot-type quality. I dont expect that. However, I also didnt expect the new Touch would be so far away from that. A nice middle ground (like maybe last gen's iphone quality) would have went a long way. I just think its not up to snuff with today's mobile world & sharing photos. Big step backwards IMO & seems like its more for small kids & maybe some teens to just play around with.

And really, there isnt a good solid classification for any of these mobile devices. If it isnt a laptop or desktop, then it falls into this sorta gray area. Its like calling the iPhone a phone. Its a helluva lot more than that (calling is like one feature outta hundreds).

They're really just all handheld computers when you break it down.

 

[tubemonkey]

How much more than the current iPod would it have to sell for?
Would the increased cost simply reflect the cost to Apple for including said camera?
If so, would Apple sell enough units to cover the increased cost of including that improved camera?
Would Apple sell enough additional units to cover those people who now won't buy the iPod because it is now out of their price range?
How would Apple's increased demand for those camera internals affect their price and availability?
How much would any product delays (because of reduced availability of camera internals) affect profitability?

Unless one knows the answer to these questions, speculating that 'well Apple could have done it' is unfounded. They might have said 'we can't afford to put a better camera in either way, might as well make it thinner'.

The vaunted iPhone camera costs $9.75 and the front cam only $1; so the touch cam is somewhere in between. Not much. Anyway, for an extra $10-$20 or so in parts, raise the selling price an extra $20-$40.

 

[Carouser]

The vaunted iPhone camera costs $9.75 and the front cam only $1; so the touch cam is somewhere in between. Not much. Anyway, for an extra $10-$20 or so in parts, raise the selling price an extra $20-$40.

Okay, so you're increasing the price 5% to 20% depending on how exactly how much and which model. Do you think this is negligible? (i.e. you didn't answer the rest of the questions I had)

 

[tubemonkey]

Okay, so you're increasing the price 5% to 20% depending on how exactly how much and which model. Do you think this is negligible? (i.e. you didn't answer the rest of the questions I had)

$30 on a $300 device? Yep, no big deal. I'd easily pay more for substantial extras.

 

[peestandingup]

$30 on a $300 device? Yep, no big deal. I'd easily pay more for substantial extras.

And thats basically if they used today's higher quality cell phone cameras. They could have put in last gen's for practically nothing. But they couldn't cause the damn thing was too thin, lol.

 

[Carouser]

$30 on a $300 device? Yep, no big deal. I'd easily pay more for substantial extras.

No, not just you, of course you would buy it. When you look at the current market for the iPod Touch, then increase the price by $30 (or 10% for all models) how many buyers will you lose, and how many will you gain? What does this do to the bottom line? Unless you actually know the answers to these questions (and more besides) then you are simply speculating that it can be done and picking your numbers to suit your conclusion. Also, your 'substantial extra' is another person's 'irrelevant addition'.

And thats basically if they used today's higher quality cell phone cameras. They could have put in last gen's for practically nothing.

How do you know? I'm seriously asking.

 

[peestandingup]

How do you know? I'm seriously asking.

You can find that information pretty easily. iFixit usually does a teardown of these devices & gives you the real cost of each component.

You can pick up a new 3GS replacement camera part for something like $6 shipped these days. And thats at retail cost. So yeah, it would have basically cost Apple nothing to put that in the new Touch & it would have made a world of difference (that lens could do 720p videos as well).

 

[tubemonkey]

No, not just you, of course you would buy it. When you look at the current market for the iPod Touch, then increase the price by $30 (or 10% for all models) how many buyers will you lose, and how many will you gain? What does this do to the bottom line? Unless you actually know the answers to these questions (and more besides) then you are simply speculating that it can be done and picking your numbers to suit your conclusion. Also, your 'substantial extra' is another person's 'irrelevant addition'.

Put a few more cheaper parts in and lower the price 10%. What does that do to the bottom line?

 

[unb3k4nn7]

my first mp3player

I find this obsession with thinness to be pretty sweet. I think it will stop when the device you got in you hand is just a thin glas screen in which everything is built in.

 

[peestandingup]

Screw that. Lets take it back to ghetto blaster days.

You want your "tunes on the go" do ya, punks?? By god your arms better be in shape!

 

[Carouser]

Put a few more cheaper parts in and lower the price 10%. What does that do to the bottom line?

I don't know, which is why I don't assume that I can make better decisions than the people who work at Apple. I might be able to, but I don't know for sure. People who are convinced Apple could have done X, Y, or Z, without actually knowing all the relevant considerations but just speculate and indulge their intuitions are fooling themselves.

Also, you still didn't answer the question. Like I said, "Unless you actually know the answers to these questions (and more besides, as in my previous posts) then you are simply speculating that it can be done and picking your numbers to suit your conclusion."

 

[tubemonkey]

Also, you still didn't answer the question. Like I said, "Unless you actually know the answers to these questions (and more besides, as in my previous posts) then you are simply speculating that it can be done and picking your numbers to suit your conclusion."

It can be done. They just don't want to do it.

 

[SlamJam12]

Opinion

I believe that an iPod will become too thin when the product breaks too easily, physically or the internal technology that makes the device operate.

 

[Carouser]

You can find that information pretty easily. iFixit usually does a teardown of these devices & gives you the real cost of each component. You can pick up a new 3GS replacement camera part for something like $6 shipped these days. And thats at retail cost. So yeah, it would have basically cost Apple nothing to put that in the new Touch & it would have made a world of difference (that lens could do 720p videos as well).

So you know for sure that there's no other relevant costs, no issues of scale, no other considerations? Really?

It can be done. They just don't want to do it.

Why? Because they're lazy? Because they didn't feel like it? You're not going to be like the other people in this thread who said 'hurf durf Jobs wants everything thin no matter what' and cite some throwaway comment from a tech blog, are you? I'm giving you the benefit of argument here; you're not really doing much to convince me of what you're saying.

 

[BaldiMac]

No problem. The new iPhone is basically nearing point & shoot-type quality. I dont expect that. However, I also didnt expect the new Touch would be so far away from that. A nice middle ground (like maybe last gen's iphone quality) would have went a long way.

I think it is a decent middle ground compared to last year's iPod touch camera.

Dual cameras. HD video. And better than VGA quality still photos. Compared to nothing last year. It's only a disappointment when you compare it to more expensive or less capable devices.

Not that I don't wish it was a better camera. I just don't think Apple has made the decision out of spite, or contempt, or obsession, or ignorance. And I don't go around under the delusion that Apple has an obligation to meet my wishes. (Not that you are delusional, but there are other people in this forum whose view of Apple is shaped by this delusion.)

I just think its not up to snuff with today's mobile world & sharing photos. Big step backwards IMO & seems like its more for small kids & maybe some teens to just play around with.

It's better resolution that Facebook publishes.

 

[BaldiMac]

It can be done. They just don't want to do it.

Exactly. Is there a problem with that?

 

[eddy2099]

It's true. dave1812dave has a very valid point, regardless of what the fanboys/girls/Jobs worshippers say.

I bought an iPod Touch not because of its multimedia capabilities (even though it's a bonus), I bought it for its Apps capabilities when it comes to educational Apps.

Yes, I agree with you. I needed a PDA based device and I cannot really find anyone selling them apart from Apple. The closest was some old HP PDA but they seems to have not been updated for the last 5 years and are very pricey if you can find them. The Android OS although nice still is pro-3G and made for smartphone rather than a PDA. Other manufacturers seems to neglect the PDA market and are making either tablets or smartphones.

I got the Apple iPod Touch because of the apps and it fits into my pocket. I wouldn't mind if it comes with a black plastic back and is as thick as a 2.5" portable harddisk. If it serve my purpose the closest, I would get it.

 

[tubemonkey]

Why? Because they're lazy? Because they didn't feel like it? You're not going to be like the other people in this thread who said 'hurf durf Jobs wants everything thin no matter what' and cite some throwaway comment from a tech blog, are you? I'm giving you the benefit of argument here; you're not really doing much to convince me of what you're saying.

They do it for their own reasons. You don't know what they are and neither do I.

PS: Jobs is obsessed with thin; which is easily remedied by putting the touch in a thick case.