great to see all this traffic in here, folks. TwoCanoes got back to me regarding their theoretical applicability to the issue and they think it should work, but it looks like PianoPro found otherwise. I haven't had time to block out for a day of rebooting yet but hope to this week. I'm kind of excited that PianoPro seems to have isolated it down to volatile disk IDs.
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How to: Boot Camp without a Boot Screen
- Thread starter MisterAndrew
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David403
macrumors regular
It certainly looks interesting - but I can't see how to install either???
The web page says it will run from a USB drive without installing - but with a non-apple Graphics card (Sapphire
Radeon RX 580) I cannot use the 'Option' key to try booting into the USB to try that.
If Apple is not going to support their recommended Graphics Cards by updating the EEPROM to enable the boot selector this could be a partial solution for all those who purchased the cards recommended by Apple. I'd like to be able to at least try this out.
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In my quest to have an encrypted Mojave installation on the 5,1 without partitioning the drive and moving the home folder to an encrypted partition while also being able to boot Windows/macOS using the startup manager and Windows bootcamp app, I ran into the exact same issue being discussed here and I have identified the root cause of the macos/windows startup manager failure and it isn't a bug! It all comes down to... wait for it, wait for it...
Apple being Apple.
Let me explain.
The reason why we are experiencing this problem with EFI based Windows installations is because Apple has updated the startup manager in 10.13.6 and 10.14 to flag/set the first partition as the boot partition for the selected BOOTCAMP install on pre-UEFI macs and to flag/set EFI partitions as boot partitions on UEFI macs. By doing this, NON-UEFI macs are restricted to BIOS (slow ATA speeds / legacy) Windows installs while UEFI macs can run (fast/modern) Windows OSes.
Seeing that UEFI/EFI-based USB/DVD Window installations create 4 partitions by default - Recovery, EFI/SYSTEM, MSR and PRIMARY, the startup manager is flagging the first partition, Recovery, to boot Windows from but the Recovery partition does not contain the necessary boot instructions in the first 512 bytes which are typically found in BIOS installs that have 1 'System Reserved' partition of size 549MB preceding the PRIMARY partition. That is why we are seeing the 'No Bootable Device' error message and further confirmation to the success of the manual blessing workaround discussed here!
D!ck move Apple 😡
Anyway, these are some of the workarounds and there could very well be more -
Stick with a default Windows BIOS install - Clear NVRAM, install Windows in BIOS mode with no other disks loaded, rename the C: drive to BOOTCAMP then shutdown, reinsert removed drives then boot into 10.13.6 or 10.14, Select BOOTCAMP in startup manager and reboot. You will notice that it works fine and nothing breaks after a PRAM reset.
Stick with a Windows BIOS install but with modified MBR to enable AHCI SATA in Windows - Same as above but you will need to search the forum for the MBR header modification steps. Nothing breaks with this method, even after a PRAM reset.
Install Windows in BIOS mode and use mbr2gpt to convert from MBR to GPT (BIOS To EFI) - Works well without breaking startup manager up until you mess around with the drive/partition order. It appears this method inserts references to the location of the newly created EFI boot partition in the first 512 bytes of the 'System Reserved' partition.
I am still not done with this yet and will look into it further when I have time, specifically replicating the boot instructions stored in the first 512 bytes found in the 'System Reserved' partition onto the Recovery partition in standard Windows EFI installations.
Edited: typo and some more info.
Apple being Apple.
Let me explain.
The reason why we are experiencing this problem with EFI based Windows installations is because Apple has updated the startup manager in 10.13.6 and 10.14 to flag/set the first partition as the boot partition for the selected BOOTCAMP install on pre-UEFI macs and to flag/set EFI partitions as boot partitions on UEFI macs. By doing this, NON-UEFI macs are restricted to BIOS (slow ATA speeds / legacy) Windows installs while UEFI macs can run (fast/modern) Windows OSes.
Seeing that UEFI/EFI-based USB/DVD Window installations create 4 partitions by default - Recovery, EFI/SYSTEM, MSR and PRIMARY, the startup manager is flagging the first partition, Recovery, to boot Windows from but the Recovery partition does not contain the necessary boot instructions in the first 512 bytes which are typically found in BIOS installs that have 1 'System Reserved' partition of size 549MB preceding the PRIMARY partition. That is why we are seeing the 'No Bootable Device' error message and further confirmation to the success of the manual blessing workaround discussed here!
D!ck move Apple 😡
Anyway, these are some of the workarounds and there could very well be more -
Stick with a default Windows BIOS install - Clear NVRAM, install Windows in BIOS mode with no other disks loaded, rename the C: drive to BOOTCAMP then shutdown, reinsert removed drives then boot into 10.13.6 or 10.14, Select BOOTCAMP in startup manager and reboot. You will notice that it works fine and nothing breaks after a PRAM reset.
Stick with a Windows BIOS install but with modified MBR to enable AHCI SATA in Windows - Same as above but you will need to search the forum for the MBR header modification steps. Nothing breaks with this method, even after a PRAM reset.
Install Windows in BIOS mode and use mbr2gpt to convert from MBR to GPT (BIOS To EFI) - Works well without breaking startup manager up until you mess around with the drive/partition order. It appears this method inserts references to the location of the newly created EFI boot partition in the first 512 bytes of the 'System Reserved' partition.
I am still not done with this yet and will look into it further when I have time, specifically replicating the boot instructions stored in the first 512 bytes found in the 'System Reserved' partition onto the Recovery partition in standard Windows EFI installations.
Edited: typo and some more info.
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ActionableMango
macrumors G3
If you have boot screens you can use rEFInd. It boots Windows EFI no problem. It is also very fast--much faster than holding down ALT/OPTION. Also of course much much faster than booting into the wrong OS in order to select the correct OS, then rebooting into the correct OS.
It's also faster than getting back to MacOS via PRAM resets. Not to mention PRAM resets also have problems of clearing other configured settings you might want/need, like Nvidia web driver flag.
Also it's customizable. You can get very nice looking full-resolution boot screens, custom icons, and can block out partitions you don't care about.
If you don't have boot screens, well, at least there's still all the weird options that work.
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Thanks. I will give it a try. Boot runner was a no go with an EFI installation - same results as startup manager.
My 2010 Mac Pro Win 10 UEFI installation has no Recovery partition and EFI is the first partition. (My understanding is that Win 10 no longer needs a recovery partition. I didn't use Bootcamp Assistant at all in my installation and installed via DVD UEFI selection.) So according to what you are saying the Startup Manager should be setting EFI as the boot partition, but apparently it doesn't because that doesn't work. However, if I bless the EFI partition with my script booting to Win 10 works perfectly.
I checked the disk partitioning with both the MacOS distill and from the Win 10 Disk Management screen and neither show a recovery partition and show EFI as volume 1.
diskutil list
/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
#: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER
0: GUID_partition_scheme *1.0 TB disk0
1: EFI EFI 209.7 MB disk0s1
2: Apple_HFS Backup 700.2 GB disk0s2
3: Microsoft Reserved 16.8 MB disk0s3
4: Microsoft Basic Data. BOOTCAMP 299.8 GB disk0s4
[doublepost=1538421634][/doublepost]
Did you disable the SIP-nvram? You have to, and then it works with EFI boot for me.
How long ago did you install windows? Did you upgrade to Windows 10? I used 1803 release to install Windows in EFI mode and it created 4 partitions on my drive. I am also using a dedicated drive for Windows. You cannot have 2 EFI partitions on the same drive and your first partition was created by macOS.
Can you please mount your EFI partition and tell me if you see any references to Windows booting?
Thanks
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I did a clean install to a separate HD using a DVD installer booted to UEFI, not legacy BIOS. The DVD was created with the 1803 iso. The HD was initially formatted as 300 GB FAT and 700GB HFS (to backup other MacOS files). During Win 10 installation the FAT partition was converted to NTFS by the installation process.
Since this script works, and it is blessing the EFI partition, I don't see why the Startup Manager wouldn't work if it is also blessing the EFI partition as you suggest.
do shell script "bless -device \"/dev/" & Win_devID & "\" -mount /Volumes/EFI -setBoot -nextonly" password "your_password" with administrator privileges
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Interesting.
I am only able to boot into Windows from macos using the startup manager if Windows was running in Bios mode or in EFI mode that was converted from Bios with nothing but the Windows and Mac drives and Mac EFI enabled GPU.
Your blessing command/script works fine and my issue is with the startup manager on high sierra 10.13.6 and Mojave.
Also, everytime I try to run boot camp assistant under Mojave I get 'This Mac Is Not Supported' regardless of whether or not I edit the info.plist file.
The one thing that stands out from your diskutil output is the hfs partition. The EFI partition you have was created as a result of creating the hfs partition. Is your startup manager able to boot windows?
Right. Boot Camp Assistant (with or without a modified plist) is locked out of running on Mojave. But fortunately there was no reason to ever use it anyway.
The EFI partition was created using disk utility. But it is modified by the Windows installer so I don't understand your point. If it wasn't modified there would be no way to bless the EFI partition and boot into Windows.
The Startup Manager (from System Preferences) can no longer set Windows as a boot volume in either HS or Mojave. You get a drop down message that says "You can't change the startup disk to the selected disk. The bless tool was unable to set the current boot disk." See the jpg below. That's why I use a script, which is better anyway since you don't need to enter a password and with 'nextonly' you return to MacOS after restarting from Windows - otherwise you are going to get stuck in Windows when you only have MacOS APFS.
OK so your startup manager gives you an error while my startup manager process the same task without erroring out. As soon as I reboot I get the 'No bootable device' error displaying on the screen.
Forget your blessing workaround as it is what's confusing you. My post wasn't about it and I'm not questioning its validity, quite the opposite. Plz read my post again.
Thanks
I didn't think I was confused. I was trying to give you a piece of info based on your first post.
You wrote that the reason we could no longer boot into Windows from the startup manager was:
"Seeing that UEFI/EFI-based USB/DVD Window installations create 4 partitions by default - Recovery, EFI/SYSTEM, MSR and PRIMARY, the startup manager is flagging the first partition, Recovery, to boot Windows"
I was simply telling you I do NOT have a Recovery partition so that isn't the reason it doesn't work. The reason it doesn't work is because the Startup Manager is NOT blessing the EFI partition EVEN WHEN IT IS THE 1st PARTITION. That is obvious because the script blesses my EFI partition, which is the 1st partition on my drive, and then it works perfectly.
Maybe it's me or the way I am explaining things... sorry. It's a bit complex as you can see and thanks for your info.
The reason your startup manager is displaying the error in your screenshot is different to what is being discussed here and what the OP has posted about in the update to the first post. Your startup manager is failing for some other reason.
I am sure of the above as my startup manager is able to successfully bless and boot BIOS installs on clean drives as well as on mbr to gpt (BIOS to EFI) converted installs without reporting errors while with EFI installs, the manager reports no errors when blessing but the boot fails to a 'No Bootable Device' error - why?
Food for thought - the common denominators between the 2 successful reports on the 5,1 using the updated startup manager are:
1. First partition
2. Filesystem type - NTFS which the 'System Reserved' and 'Recovery' partitions both utilize.
I haven't tested your scenario/setup yet but will do when I have time.
It will even be more helpful if mp6,1 and other true UEFI mac owners can share the partition structure of the drive on which their bootcamp install resides.
haralds
macrumors 68040
expede
macrumors regular
Hi!
Did you mean BootChamp? Because it works for me. That little program is the only thing, expect Bootscreen, that works for me. And now, I did try "csrutil enabel --without nvram" and it still works. Sorry for that old post. But the script that PianoPro and tsialex wrote did just boot me back in OSX Mojave. Very strange. Even I, who are not a "terminal sith-lord", can understand what the commands do. But no luck here, just BootChamp is my "Reboot friend".
Best regards and sorry
/Per
Did you mean BootChamp? Because it works for me. That little program is the only thing, expect Bootscreen, that works for me. And now, I did try "csrutil enabel --without nvram" and it still works. Sorry for that old post. But the script that PianoPro and tsialex wrote did just boot me back in OSX Mojave. Very strange. Even I, who are not a "terminal sith-lord", can understand what the commands do. But no luck here, just BootChamp is my "Reboot friend".
Best regards and sorry
/Per
The script is for booting Windows in the UEFI mode. That is the preferred mode for Win 10, but Bootcamp assistant produces legacy BIOS booting if you used that to make your Win partitions. So, are you using UEFI or legacy BIOS for your windows boot? I suggested a script change if you are using legacy BIOS, but I haven't tested that change because my Win 10 is UEFI. If I ever get sufficient time I'll make another Win 10 installation and test a script for BIOS booting. But I don't have that time now.
expede
macrumors regular
Legacy BIOS or UEFI is very confusing terminology for me. I can only describe what I did.
1 Burned DVD with Win10
2 Pulled all disks out except one SSD i bay 1 (FAT 32 formated)
3 Rebooted and went to Bootscreen
4 Started the install and deleted all the partitions and created a new one with NTFS
5 Completed the installation and installed the BootCamp drives.
This was back in 84' firmware days. Is this Legacy BIOS? Is this bad? Should I do a new install?
/Per
1 Burned DVD with Win10
2 Pulled all disks out except one SSD i bay 1 (FAT 32 formated)
3 Rebooted and went to Bootscreen
4 Started the install and deleted all the partitions and created a new one with NTFS
5 Completed the installation and installed the BootCamp drives.
This was back in 84' firmware days. Is this Legacy BIOS? Is this bad? Should I do a new install?
/Per
I could be wrong but I think that UEFI requires the drive use GPT instead of MBR. So even if you deleted the FAT32 partition and created an NTFS one, if the drive was already MBR then it likely stayed that way, requiring a BIOS install.
In any case it's pretty easy to determine what mode it installed in. See here
In any case it's pretty easy to determine what mode it installed in. See here
BillyBobBongo
macrumors 68030
I believe, when you boot from a CD, you are given two options. Either you can click on 'Windows' or you can click on 'Boot EFI'. If you click on Windows it installs in Legacy mode and if you click on 'Boot EFI' it installs in UEFI mode.
Edit: Seem that the folks over at Twocanoes have written about this in more detail.
Edit: Seem that the folks over at Twocanoes have written about this in more detail.
expede
macrumors regular
@ bookemdano Thanks, found it. BIOS it was.
@BillyBobBongo Yes you are right. I clicked the "Windows". I tried the the "Boot EFI" but the screen went black.
Thanks
/Per
@BillyBobBongo Yes you are right. I clicked the "Windows". I tried the the "Boot EFI" but the screen went black.
Thanks
/Per
startergo
macrumors 603
Actually when you run the script and select a USB drive as an installer then it blesses the USB automatically so you don't have to do anything it will boot from the USB. You can still use it with the RX-580 only, but you have to know the layout of the next loader partitions. Just use an EFI card and take a note of the partitions. Bear in mind the default selected partition is the last booted partition. So you know where is the cursor at boot and based on your knowledge of the layout you go left or right to the desired boot partition and hit enter.
If you reinstall, you may want to first reformat the drive in macOS selecting the "GUID Partition Map" under "Scheme". That may not be necessary (maybe the Windows installer will do that) but it can't hurt.
Edit: Just saw what you said about the black screen thing. I remember seeing similar posts from other people in the past. I think it's your 7950--it must be set to the BIOS mode, not EFI when used in UEFI mode with Windows. You can flip the switch on the card, assuming you didn't flash the other BIOS with the EFI ROM also. If you switch back and forth between Windows and macOS often though (and want to maintain boot screens on the Mac side) then it will be quite a pain as you will have to power down and flip the BIOS switch each time.
abdyfranco
macrumors regular
I released today the second version of Boot Manager, a free and open source alternative to BootChamp, QuickBoot and Boot Runner, right on the status bar of your Mac, With support for Windows, macOS and Linux (Limited support).
http://abdyfran.co/projects/boot-manager
http://abdyfran.co/projects/boot-manager
startergo
macrumors 603
Ok I am confused now. So you have next loader and the boot manager performing the same functionality? What is the difference and why we would choose one over the other?
abdyfranco
macrumors regular
Next Loader is an EFI Boot Loader.
Boot Manager is an application, that allows you to switch between operating systems without reboot your Mac. (Something that is required to use Next Loader)
You can use both, they are different things. I use Next Loader on my Mac Pro to fix the APFS issue in Windows and Boot Manager to switch to Windows from macOS easily.