How to: Boot Camp without a Boot Screen

startergo

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Sep 20, 2018
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Thanks for the very good explanation. I was guessing the newer, incompatible drivers might be ignored. Good to know that's the case.

I think I'll try installing ver 6 then to get the newer Boot Camp Control Panel. It is a pain using the 'nextonly' blessing when Windows wants to install updates and reboot itself (which happens too often). I'll modify my script to boot into Windows so the user can choose to use 'nextonly' or not use it, just as I do for booting into other Mac OS's. The advantage of using the script is still to avoid having to type in a password to use the Startup Disk preference pane to boot into Windows.
[doublepost=1540077436][/doublepost]

But then do I really want to uninstall the ver 5 drivers? Will anything Mac Pro specific be missed in version 6 drivers since it was never released for the Mac Pro? If it won't install over the top of ver 5 perhaps it will install specific ver 6 drivers individually?
I don't remember uninstalling any bootcamp drivers before 6. But I had to uninstall before 6.1
 

bookemdano

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But then do I really want to uninstall the ver 5 drivers? Will anything Mac Pro specific be missed in version 6 drivers since it was never released for the Mac Pro? If it won't install over the top of ver 5 perhaps it will install specific ver 6 drivers individually?
I believe the only thing that really uninstalls is the boot camp control panel. My recollection is that drivers are untouched.
 
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expede

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Wow, guys and girls!!

I have booted back from Win 10 EFI SSD in bay 1 via BootCamp 6.1 to my NVMe 2.0 for the first time in years, WOW!!!!:):):)

I will try this from OSX to EFI Win 10 SSD.

Edit: Did not work from OSX to Win. Have to go via Terminal to be able to not get a black-screen saying "Insert a bootable disk and press any key". But now I can stay in Windows as long as I want.


/Per
 
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H2SO4

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I'm still having lot of trouble with my install. Sobefore I get back into it. A couple of questions for you guys if you would be so kind;
1. If you type diskutil list into terminal does your Win10 disk, show as having the single physical disk, (partitioned as FDisk_partition_scheme with just one volume? Should there not be an EFI partition, even an attached USB disk seems to have one?
2. Is that volume identified as Windows_NTFS BOOTCAMP, (or similar)?

Thanks.
 

PianoPro

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I'm still having lot of trouble with my install. Sobefore I get back into it. A couple of questions for you guys if you would be so kind;
1. If you type diskutil list into terminal does your Win10 disk, show as having the single physical disk, (partitioned as FDisk_partition_scheme with just one volume? Should there not be an EFI partition, even an attached USB disk seems to have one?
2. Is that volume identified as Windows_NTFS BOOTCAMP, (or similar)?

Thanks.
Are you installing as UEFI boot or legacy-BIOS boot? Did you use the Bootcamp Assistant to partition Win 10 disk or the Disk Utility? If Disk Utility did you try to create a GUID or MBR disk? Are you trying to put an HFS+ or APFS volume on the same disk?
 

H2SO4

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Are you installing as UEFI boot or legacy-BIOS boot? Did you use the Bootcamp Assistant to partition Win 10 disk or the Disk Utility? If Disk Utility did you try to create a GUID or MBR disk? Are you trying to put an HFS+ or APFS volume on the same disk?
Hi there.
I used DISKPART on the Windows installer disc itself to, IIRC;
  • DISKPART.
  • list disk, (only one disk actually installed)
  • Select disk 0
  • clean
  • convert MBR
  • create partition primary
  • active
  • format fs=FAT32 label=NATIVE81
  • exit
  • setup.exe
Then installed Windows. Actually did this on a Windows box as the Mac would refuse to install, got a message saying the computers BIOS wouldn't allow booting from the disk. Was how I did my original install that has worked fine for years. But it'd definitely in legacy boot as I checked it whilst booted into Windows on the DOSbox, also I don't have an EFI folder in C:\Windows\

I thought you needed an EFI partition to boot, apparently not.
 
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expede

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Jan 15, 2018
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Hi there!

This is how my disk looks in "diskutil list". Windows 10 EFI install on a SSD

Win10_EFI.png


And when a reboot in terminal I call the EFI partition not Bootcamp.

Best regards

/Per


I'm still having lot of trouble with my install. Sobefore I get back into it. A couple of questions for you guys if you would be so kind;
1. If you type diskutil list into terminal does your Win10 disk, show as having the single physical disk, (partitioned as FDisk_partition_scheme with just one volume? Should there not be an EFI partition, even an attached USB disk seems to have one?
2. Is that volume identified as Windows_NTFS BOOTCAMP, (or similar)?

Thanks.
 

PianoPro

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Sep 4, 2018
232
118
0
Hi there.
I used DISKPART on the Windows installer disc itself to, IIRC;
  • DISKPART.
  • list disk, (only one disk actually installed)
  • Select disk 0
  • clean
  • convert MBR
  • create partition primary
  • active
  • format fs=FAT32 label=NATIVE81
  • exit
  • setup.exe
Then installed Windows. Actually did this on a Windows box as the Mac would refuse to install, got a message saying the computers BIOS wouldn't allow booting from the disk. Was how I did my original install that has worked fine for years. But it'd definitely in legacy boot as I checked it whilst booted into Windows on the DOSbox, also I don't have an EFI folder in C:\Windows\

I thought you needed an EFI partition to boot, apparently not.
Sorry, I can't help. Mac EFI partition is different depending on what type of boot you do. Creating the Win install on a Windows machine and moving it to a Mac is beyond my experience. That seems unnecessarily complex. I download an iso from MS, convert to bootable DVD, and install.
 

H2SO4

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Nov 4, 2008
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Sorry, I can't help. Mac EFI partition is different depending on what type of boot you do. Creating the Win install on a Windows machine and moving it to a Mac is beyond my experience. That seems unnecessarily complex. I download an iso from MS, convert to bootable DVD, and install.
Thanks for replying. I tried that, but I pop in the disc, (downloaded the ISO from Microsoft direct). Then I power down the Mac and boot from it by holding the C key.
It goes through the initial steps but tells me that windows cannot be installed due to a reason with a BIOS that isn’t one that supports Windows.
Can’t use Bootcamp as it’s not supported.
I wonder if it’s worth booting from Mountain Lion and using actual Bootcamp from that version........
[doublepost=1540233465][/doublepost]
Hi there!

This is how my disk looks in "diskutil list". Windows 10 EFI install on a SSD

View attachment 797368

And when a reboot in terminal I call the EFI partition not Bootcamp.

Best regards

/Per
Yep. Totally different. Man this is annoying.
 

PianoPro

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Sep 4, 2018
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Thanks for replying. I tried that, but I pop in the disc, (downloaded the ISO from Microsoft direct). Then I power down the Mac and boot from it by holding the C key.
It goes through the initial steps but tells me that windows cannot be installed due to a reason with a BIOS that isn’t one that supports Windows.
Can’t use Bootcamp as it’s not supported. ...
I've never seen a "BIOS problem" message while installing Win. Is this Win 10? You can get messages about being a GPT disk when doing legacy-BIOS install if you make the Win disk wrong, or conversely about not-being a GPT disk when installing as UEFI, again depending on how you make the Windows disk. I've never heard of your problem.
 

H2SO4

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Yep.
I've never seen a "BIOS problem" message while installing Win. Is this Win 10? You can get messages about being a GPT disk when doing legacy-BIOS install if you make the Win disk wrong, or conversely about not-being a GPT disk when installing as UEFI, again depending on how you make the Windows disk. I've never heard of your problem.
Yep. Win10. If I can find the time and a spare HD, I’ll do it again and capture the screen.
 

h9826790

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Yeah, if there is an EFI folder in the root of the Windows drive then it's installed in UEFI mode.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/boot-to-uefi-mode-or-legacy-bios-mode
[doublepost=1540029505][/doublepost]I just reinstalled Windows 10 in Legacy mode. I formatted the drive with MBR partition scheme in exFAT. I downloaded an ISO of the October 2018 update (version 1809) and burned it to a DVD. My Mac Pro wouldn't boot from it though. So I booted a Windows 7 DVD and installed that first. Then I made sure there was no EFI folder in the root of the Windows drive so it was installed in Legacy mode. Then I installed Windows 10. Then I installed the Boot Camp 5 drivers for the Mac Pro 5,1 and then I installed the Boot Camp 6.1 drivers for the iMac Pro which I obtained using the Brigadier app. The iMac Pro Boot Camp installer gives an error preventing installation, but there's a workaround here: https://jeffw.net/2015/09/08/this-version-of-boot-camp-is-not-intended-for-this-computer-model-fixed/

When I installed Windows I took out my Mac drives and now that I've reinstalled them I able to boot back into Windows from the Startup Disk system preferences pane in Mojave. The Boot Camp control panel in Windows shows the APFS Mac drives, but it just labels them as "Mac." I selected one and I lucked out selecting my main macOS install. So Apple has fixed it in the latest release! No need to use any of these fancy tricks now unless you want to and you can keep SIP fully enabled.

https://github.com/timsutton/brigadier
Ah this is sounding really familiar now. I recall facing this exact same problem or something similar a year or two ago when I last messed with Bootcamp on my cMP.

Bring up an admin command prompt (If you don't know how to do that, click start, type command then you should see an icon for command prompt. Right click it and choose "Run as administrator".

Then once it comes up, type in this command:

Code:
msiexec /x BootCamp.msi
That should uninstall it. Then proceed to install the iMac version.
[doublepost=1540074571][/doublepost]

The nature of drivers is such that if they aren't actually compatible with your hardware Windows will not install them. So while there may be drivers you must install from the Win7 MP51 bootcamp package (I can't remember if there are), if you then subsequently install the iMac Pro bootcamp package it won't install drivers for anything that isn't applicable (same hardware IDs and newer).

Consider that the cMP's bootcamp driver package is targeted for Windows 7 and hasn't been updated in eons. A lot of the hardware in a cMP actually has newer drivers available. Some of it will come via Windows Update, but not everything. By installing a newer Bootcamp driver package you can get Win10-era drivers for several of the devices in your system.

Plus, for folks like me who have installed newer Airport cards to get 802.11ac and BT 4.0, a newer bootcamp driver package is the way to get Windows drivers for that.

But the aim of installing the newer package here isn't for the new set of drivers--it's for the new version of Boot Camp Control Panel, which apparently can now see APFS formatted drives and successfully bless them as the startup disk. That means not having to use any of these workarounds, no disabling of SIP, etc.

There is very little risk involved, but if you wanted to try it it never hurts to make a backup beforehand.
OK, done!

Thanks for providing all the required info. This is my version of "how to do it".

1) Insert the Windows installation DVD into the super drive (How to burn a Windows installation disc properly). [N.B. Do NOT replace the DVD by USB installer. It won't work]

2) Shutdown the Mac

3) Hold "C" to boot (if you have NVMe installed, and can't boot from the disc, please try remove the NVMe)

4) Follow the on screen instruction until reach the "Where do you want to install Windows" step
image.png


5) "Delete" all the target SSD's partitions. In the above capture (downloaded from internet), you can see that there are 4 partitions for existing EFI mode Windows. Select each partition one by one, and click Delete. Be careful, do NOT remove other drive's partition. All partitions should be on the same drive. e.g. In the above example, all belongs to Drive 0. There is no requirement to remove any other hard drive from the cMP. But if you want to play safe, you can physically remove them between step 2 and 3 to avoid error.

Eventually will looks like this. No more partitions, but just a single large piece of Unallocated Space.
image.png


6) Click New. This will automatically create the correct and required partitions with all available space. For legacy installation, should be only two partitions automatically created.
image.png


7) Select the newly created partition, and continue the installation.

8) For Windows 10, the LAN line should work straight away after installation completed. So now, you can use Edge to access the internet.

9) Go to https://github.com/timsutton/brigadier/releases

10) Download brigadier.exe (0.2.4)

11) insert a USB drive (this is not mandatory, but just make the command prompt work easier)

12) Format the USB drive to FAT32

13) Copy brigadier.exe to the USB drive (assume it's the E drive)

14) Open Command Prompt (search CMD can find it)

15) type
Code:
e:
16) type
Code:
brigadier -m MacPro5,1
17) Once finished, rename the "Bootcampxxxxxxxxxx" folder to "Bootcamp5"

18 ) type
Code:
brigadier -m iMacPro1,1
19) Once finished, rename the "Bootcampxxxxxxxxxx" folder to "Bootcamp61"

20) search CMD again, but this time right click, and choose "run as admin"

21) type
Code:
e:
22) type
Code:
cd Bootcamp5/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple
23) type
Code:
msiexec /i bootcamp.msi
24) After installation finished and reboot. Search CMD again, right click, and choose "run as admin"

25) type
Code:
e:
26) type
Code:
cd Bootcamp5/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple
27) type
Code:
msiexec /x bootcamp.msi
This will NOT remove the drivers, but just the bootcamp apps

28) type
Code:
cd Bootcamp61/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple
29) type
Code:
msiexec /i bootcamp.msi
30) Let it finish the installation and reboot. And now you can install the hard drives back in.

So now, if you run the bootcamp apps. You should see something like this.
Bootcamp 6.1.PNG

Language doesn't really matter, but you can see all the selections.

Those HFS+ High Sierra options will show the hard drive's name (e.g. 8T Backup)

Those APFS Mojave options will show as "Mac" above macOS.

From now on, you can use startup disk in Mojave to select Windows 10 (I renamed the SSD, usually it should shows BOOTCAMP, but not Win 10)
Screenshot 2018-10-23 at 07.27.13.png


And of course, we can use bootcamp apps in Windows to select Mojave.

And have everything working as expected. e.g. Keyboard functions keys, Magic Mouse, BT 4.0, Wifi ac, USB 3.0, etc.

P.S. I am not sure if step 24 - 27 can be skipped or not. You may try, may safe you a minute for rebooting.
 
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bookemdano

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OK, done!
Really nice write-up as usual. Thanks.

I just experimented with installing Win10 from EFI USB. As you said earlier I had to install my EFI GPU in order to do it. I left both GPUs installed during the setup process and even through the first boot so Windows Update could download drivers for both cards. After that I pulled my EFI GPU and booted back up and successfully used my RX 580.

I haven't binwalked my boot rom yet to see if there are MS certificates (though I do think it's interesting that msinfo32.exe says that Secure Boot is not supported, so I dunno why it's trying to load a certificate into NVRAM if it has determined that Secure Boot isn't even available to use on the cMP.

Anyway, my question to you and others who have been using Win10 on the cMP for a while: Why is it even necessary to install the Mac Pro 5,1 bootcamp package? When I look in device manager after running Windows Update, the only two devices banged out due to no drivers are Bluetooth and WiFi, which are both on my replaced Airport 802.11ac/BT4.0 card. I will need to get those drivers from the 6.1 bootcamp driver package, along with the updated control panel that can see APFS drives.

So is there something else in the 5.1 package that we cMP users need? If not, it would save a lot of time and hassle to skip the 5.1 install and just install the 6.1 package to get the BT/WiFi driver and the newest Bootcamp Control Panel.

Thanks!
 

h9826790

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Really nice write-up as usual. Thanks.

I just experimented with installing Win10 from EFI USB. As you said earlier I had to install my EFI GPU in order to do it. I left both GPUs installed during the setup process and even through the first boot so Windows Update could download drivers for both cards. After that I pulled my EFI GPU and booted back up and successfully used my RX 580.

I haven't binwalked my boot rom yet to see if there are MS certificates (though I do think it's interesting that msinfo32.exe says that Secure Boot is not supported, so I dunno why it's trying to load a certificate into NVRAM if it has determined that Secure Boot isn't even available to use on the cMP.

Anyway, my question to you and others who have been using Win10 on the cMP for a while: Why is it even necessary to install the Mac Pro 5,1 bootcamp package? When I look in device manager after running Windows Update, the only two devices banged out due to no drivers are Bluetooth and WiFi, which are both on my replaced Airport 802.11ac/BT4.0 card. I will need to get those drivers from the 6.1 bootcamp driver package, along with the updated control panel that can see APFS drives.

So is there something else in the 5.1 package that we cMP users need? If not, it would save a lot of time and hassle to skip the 5.1 install and just install the 6.1 package to get the BT/WiFi driver and the newest Bootcamp Control Panel.

Thanks!
My understanding is Windows driver will work, but may not be the best driver.

Just like the RX580 will work straight away after Windows installation, but we still better install the most up to date driver from AMD.

Windows may simply use some generic driver for the hardware. If possible, it's better to install the tailor made driver.
 
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bookemdano

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My understanding is Windows driver will work, but may not be the best driver.

Just like the RX580 will work straight away after Windows installation, but we still better install the most up to date driver from AMD.

Windows may simply use some generic driver for the hardware. If possible, it's better to install the tailor made driver.
OK. I guess I am in the minority (well, plus I don't game) so I always use the Windows Update video driver if it is available. It may be older but the less stuff I have to install manually, the better (for me). I will try running a while with the generic drivers and see if any functionality is missing. But so far seems like everything works fine. I haven't installed BC 6.1 package yet. Will do that in the next few days.
 
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MisterAndrew

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OK, done!

Thanks for providing all the required info. This is my version of "how to do it".

1) Insert the Windows installation DVD into the super drive

2) Shutdown the Mac

3) Hold "C" to boot

4) Follow the on screen instruction until reach the "Where do you want to install Windows" step
View attachment 797517

5) "Delete" all my target SSD's partition. In the above capture (downloaded from internet), you can see that there are 4 partitions for existing EFI mode Windows. Select each partition one by one, and click Delete. Be careful, do NOT remove other drive's partition. All partitions should be on the same drive. e.g. In the above example, all belongs to Drive 0. There is no requirement to remove any other hard drive from the cMP. But if you want to play safe, you can physically remove them between step 2 and 3 to avoid error.

Eventually will looks like this. No more partitions, but just a single large piece of Unallocated Space.
View attachment 797518

6) Click New. This will automatically create the correct and required partitions with all available space. For legacy installation, should be only two partitions automatically created.
View attachment 797527

7) Select the newly created partition, and continue the installation.

8) For Windows 10, the LAN line should work straight away after installation completed. So now, you can use Edge to access the internet.

9) Go to https://github.com/timsutton/brigadier/releases

10) Download brigadier.exe (0.2.4)

11) insert a USB drive (this is not mandatory, but just make the command prompt work easier)

12) Format the USB drive to FAT32

13) Copy brigadier.exe to the USB drive (assume it's the E drive)

14) Open Command Prompt (search CMD can find it)

15) type
Code:
e:
16) type
Code:
brigadier -m MacPro5,1
17) Once finished, rename the "Bootcampxxxxxxxxxx" folder to "Bootcamp5"

18 ) type
Code:
brigadier -m iMacPro1,1
19) Once finished, rename the "Bootcampxxxxxxxxxx" folder to "Bootcamp61"

20) search CMD again, but this time right click, and choose "run as admin"

21) type
Code:
e:
22) type
Code:
cd Bootcamp5/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple
23) type
Code:
msiexec /i bootcamp.msi
24) After installation finished and reboot. Search CMD again, right click, and choose "run as admin"

25) type
Code:
e:
26) type
Code:
cd Bootcamp5/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple
27) type
Code:
msiexec /x bootcamp.msi
This will NOT remove the drivers, but just the bootcamp apps

28) type
Code:
cd Bootcamp61/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple
29) type
Code:
msiexec /i bootcamp.msi
30) Let it finish the installation and restart

So now, if you run the bootcamp apps. You should see something like this.
View attachment 797522
Language doesn't really matter, but you can see all the sections.

Those HFS+ High Sierra options will show the hard drive's name (e.g. 8T Backup)

Those APFS Mojave options will show as "Mac" above macOS.

From now on, you can use startup disk in Mojave to select Windows 10 (I renamed the SSD, usually it should shows BOOTCAMP, but not Win 10)
View attachment 797524

And of course, we can use bootcamp apps in Windows to select Mojave.

And have everything working as expected. e.g. Keyboard functions keys, Magic Mouse, BT 4.0, Wifi ac, USB 3.0, etc.

P.S. I am not sure if step 24 - 27 can be skipped or not. You may try, may safe you a minute for rebooting.
Thanks for the write up! Before the first step though you can format the Boot Camp drive in Disk Utility with an MBR partition scheme. In Disk Utility click View from the menu bar and select Show All Devices, then select the drive and click Erase. Then the MBR partition scheme can be selected. It can be formatted FAT32 or exFAT, then during the Windows install you don't need to delete any partitions. Just select the partition and format NTFS to proceed with the install.
 

h9826790

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OK. I guess I am in the minority (well, plus I don't game) so I always use the Windows Update video driver if it is available. It may be older but the less stuff I have to install manually, the better (for me). I will try running a while with the generic drivers and see if any functionality is missing. But so far seems like everything works fine. I haven't installed BC 6.1 package yet. Will do that in the next few days.
Sure, it's your own choice, as long as it fit your need, of course no point to "fix" any working stuff.

Thanks for the write up! Before the first step though you can format the Boot Camp drive in Disk Utility with an MBR partition scheme. In Disk Utility click View from the menu bar and select Show All Devices, then select the drive and click Erase. Then the MBR partition scheme can be selected. It can be formatted FAT32 or exFAT, then during the Windows install you don't need to delete any partitions. Just select the partition and format NTFS to proceed with the install.
Yes, that can work as well. But I choose the way that let Windows installer to do the job rather than macOS. So, always 100% correct format / partition scheme.
[doublepost=1540286687][/doublepost]
Looking at it now thanks.
Just booting from the DVD, (made the USB stick for future reference with those windows support files added but I don't get a boot screen to look at with my RX470).
I might buy a DVD-DL for it going forward.
For your info, DVD installer will go for legacy mode by default.

USB installer will go for EFI mode by default.
 
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H2SO4

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Sure, it's your own choice, as long as it fit your need, of course no point to "fix" any working stuff.



Yes, that can work as well. But I choose that way to let Windows to do the job rather than macOS. So, 100% correct.
[doublepost=1540286687][/doublepost]

For your info, DVD installer will go for legacy mode by default.

USB installer will go for EFI mode by default.
Interesting, thanks. It seems to have worked. I've not yet tried booting between OSes. But I have now had Win10 running.
THANKYOU ALL, for your help thus far.

So, until today I'd not tried switching, but can now confirm that booting back and forth works perfectly.
 
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eksu

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The only driver I installed from the 5,1 package was the Realtek for the internal speaker, then I disable their application for auto startup.
 
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stix666

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I partitioned a 970 evo. For the Windows partition, the format was MS-DOS. I had a pre-existing winclone image that I restored to this partition and then made 'legacy bootable'. This booted up straight away, but on rebooting caused errors. So not fully reliable but the first time I've managed to get Win10 working on a blade on the Mac Pro.
 

expede

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Did you change the UID number from the orginal disk? Winclone maybe cloned that to.

Best regards

/Per

I partitioned a 970 evo. For the Windows partition, the format was MS-DOS. I had a pre-existing winclone image that I restored to this partition and then made 'legacy bootable'. This booted up straight away, but on rebooting caused errors. So not fully reliable but the first time I've managed to get Win10 working on a blade on the Mac Pro.