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However, I'm sure you will find a great many of those have done some research and concluded that they are paying a premium because there is nothing else on the market that fits the bill.

Please find another laptop from any manufacturer that's 0.7" thick, made from aluminum or equivalent durable material (carbon fiber?), has a quad-core CPU, and a dedicated GPU.

You will find such a thing very scarce.

Add the screen to the mix (ultra high resolution, IPS) and it'd turn out the rMBP is the only one of its kind.

I agree with some of your points...

Most people are not geeks or nerds to install Mac OS X on a Hackintosh, but let's be honest, if Apple would let other companies (Psystar case) support Mac OS X on a different hardware, then you'll see a lot of people switching to the other side. Most people do not care about aesthetics. A notebook is a just a basic and necessary tool that helps you to do your job... You don't spend your day starring at the design or even retina screen. "Pro" users use generally external displays... :D

I hope Ubuntu or a similar company drops the ****** of Gnome and KDE and develop a similar OS or better compatible with Mac OS X... :eek:
 
I agree with some of your points...

Most people are not geeks or nerds to install Mac OS X on a Hackintosh, but let's be honest, if Apple would let other companies (Psystar case) support Mac OS X on a different hardware, then you'll see a lot of people switching to the other side. Most people do not care about aesthetics. A notebook is a just a basic and necessary tool that helps you to do your job... You don't spend your day starring at the design or even retina screen. "Pro" users use generally external displays... :D

I hope Ubuntu or a similar company drops the ****** of Gnome and KDE and develop a similar OS or better compatible with Mac OS X... :eek:

Still, you must admit there are those who are conscious about how their gears look. There's a reason why the Fujifilm X100, which looks like a classy little camera, is so successful against a sea of DSLR and mirrorless cameras despite its limitations.

Also it's not just about aesthetic. Mobile professionals care about weight, too, and the rMBP is one of the very few computers in its weight class that offer that level of performance uncompromised.

When you're lugging gears along for your "professional" work, then every pound counts.

If specs were everything, then desktops should be the no-brainer choice. And the rMBP isn't even in "workstation" class to begin with, so technically it's not a computer for those looking for heavyweight specs.

And even if Apple licensed their OS to third-parties, you will still find a great many people purchase their computers. Just because the mentality is that Apple made the OS, so they must know which hardware works best with the OS. That's the power of brand image.

Try Google's Nexus line. There are a ton of Android tablets under $200, but the Nexus 7 is undoubtedly the most popular, and also arguably the most purchased.
 
No IPS panel, no deal.

Frankly, that is your own opinion. I currently use an IPS display, and I think LED displays look much better. Apple's IPS display looks good though. If you're someone who needs to see your computer while you're 3 feet to the left of the screen, then that's your own personal need, and won't be necessary from 98% of consumers.

I challenge you to search for a laptop like that with a proper display (color accurate IPS with at least full sRGB gamut), that is still cheaper than the rMBP, or the Lenovo and HP models mentioned.

Vaio Pro 13
XPS 15 (has LED though)
Alienware 14
Alienware 17
Kirabook
 
i wouldn't do that actually, it is hard to maintain consist quality across all hardware.
if they did a half assed driver, and gets into sad mac a lot often. then people would think Mac OSX is no better than Windows.

Hackintosh is having a lot of success... But it requires skills and patience...
We should not fool ourselves, people buy apple because of Mac OS X. If OS X were supported on general PC hardware, budget conscious and savvy people would not buy apple hardware... This is the reason why apple does not license their OS to other companies for commercial uses...
 
hackintosh is having a lot of success... But it requires skills and patience...
We should not fool ourselves, people buy apple because of mac os x. If os x were supported on general pc hardware, budget conscious and savvy people would not buy apple hardware... This is the reason why apple does not license their os to other companies for commercial uses...

+1
 
The Retina MacBooks, are the lowest percent profit margin laptops that Apple has ever sold. Read that a few times if you need to.

There is no problem with the Retina's price, if you're complaining about it, it's because you are delusional and cannot comprehend value. The screen on the Retina 15" costs Apple more to procure than all the electronic parts in a base MacBook Pro 15" combined.

I'd like to echo the comment above. If you want a lower-cost machine, you can buy the cMBP. At $1799, it maintained the same price point vis a vis 2011 models while providing upgrades in processor speed, graphics, and ports.

When you buy a Retina, you're buying a different class of machine. You're paying a premium for the more expensive screen and the engineering costs involved in making the device thinner and lighter.

Apple's been experiencing margin compression for several quarters now, and it's the #1 reason the stock has been hit. The rMBP is priced pretty fairly. You might see the new Haswell entry level model at ~$1999, but that will be thanks to removal of the dGPU.

If you want to "lower the price," buy a cMBP.
 
I'd like to echo the comment above. If you want a lower-cost machine, you can buy the cMBP. At $1799, it maintained the same price point vis a vis 2011 models while providing upgrades in processor speed, graphics, and ports.

When you buy a Retina, you're buying a different class of machine. You're paying a premium for the more expensive screen and the engineering costs involved in making the device thinner and lighter.

Apple's been experiencing margin compression for several quarters now, and it's the #1 reason the stock has been hit. The rMBP is priced pretty fairly. You might see the new Haswell entry level model at ~$1999, but that will be thanks to removal of the dGPU.

If you want to "lower the price," buy a cMBP.

I would likely buy it if the cMBP is updated with haswell...
 
Hackintosh is having a lot of success... But it requires skills and patience...
We should not fool ourselves, people buy apple because of Mac OS X. If OS X were supported on general PC hardware, budget conscious and savvy people would not buy apple hardware... This is the reason why apple does not license their OS to other companies for commercial uses...

I buy it for the shell that is the MBP.
 
Hackintosh is having a lot of success... But it requires skills and patience...
We should not fool ourselves, people buy apple because of Mac OS X. If OS X were supported on general PC hardware, budget conscious and savvy people would not buy apple hardware... This is the reason why apple does not license their OS to other companies for commercial uses...

I bought my Retina MacBook because I thought it was the best computer available that I could use to try out DPI scaling in Windows 7...

...and it is still the best computer for that purpose.

Vaio Pro 13
XPS 15 (has LED though)
Alienware 14
Alienware 17
Kirabook

Vaio Pro 13 - screen is only 1920 x 1080, compared to the 13" rMBP at 2560 x 1600. And CPU is ULV.
XPS 15 - again, screen is only 1920 x 1080, versus the 15" rMBP at 2880 x 1800
Alienware 14 - same problem as above
Alienware 17 - very very same problem as above
Kirabook comes close in screen quality (2560 x 1440, so still less than the 13" rMBP, and almost 1M pixels less than the 15"), but falls short in processing power. It uses a ULV dual-core CPU. 15" rMBP comes with a quad-core CPU and discrete graphics, and you can buy 15" rMBP refurbished for LESS than what you'd have to pay for a Kirabook.
 
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I would likely buy it if the cMBP is updated with haswell...

While a lot of people have been suggesting that it won't be updated, I tend to think the odds are good that it will, especially if the rMBP doesn't get a price drop. There's enough market demand for a 15" laptop at that lower price point that I don't see it being discontinued.
 
Hackintosh is having a lot of success... But it requires skills and patience...
We should not fool ourselves, people buy apple because of Mac OS X. If OS X were supported on general PC hardware, budget conscious and savvy people would not buy apple hardware... This is the reason why apple does not license their OS to other companies for commercial uses...

well, true that. but commercialization means they stake OSX reputation on things that are out of their control.

Hackintosh are not officially supported and people who use it understand the risks of running it.

if you tell an idiot to use a hackintosh, and it crashes ... the first impression that will land on his mind is that the OSX is not as good as it thought.
 
Frankly, that is your own opinion. I currently use an IPS display, and I think LED displays look much better. Apple's IPS display looks good though. If you're someone who needs to see your computer while you're 3 feet to the left of the screen, then that's your own personal need, and won't be necessary from 98% of consumers.

Before you reply to the following, I suggest you try and read some information on different display technologies. I suggest you try Wikipedia, it has a fairly comprehensive article on the subject. It would be beneficial if you had an idea of what you were talking about. Also, pulling statistics out of thin air does not make a very good argument.

You are mixing things up. IPS and TN are panel types, both of which are equipped with either (W)LED or CFL backlights. So the LED display you mentioned most likely has either a TN or an IPS panel, unless it happens to be an OLED display on a mobile phone (there aren't many larger OLED panels commonly available at the moment).

rMBP is the first Apple laptop ever to be equipped with an IPS display. Ever. And this is a huge deal to many people. A couple of generations of laptop displays have already been LED backlit, but this hasn't had a visible effect on image quality, or at least it hasn't improved quality per se. It has greatly reduced power consumption, which on laptops is often considered more important than color reproduction. But it's still the panel technology, not the backlight, that makes more difference to color reproduction. Only a handful of laptops have been available with good hi-res IPS displays, be they LED backlit or not.

The wider viewing angles of IPS panels make a lot of difference if you actually do anything that requires you to see colors consistently. That would be any graphical work, photo or video editing, some CAD work etc, most of the uses the rMBP is marketed for. Even gamers can benefit from wider viewing angles. Saying it's just a matter of opinion is really quite ignorant.

There have been some quite bad IPS panels out there too, at least some fairly recent 15" HP Envy and Sony Vaio models suffered from reduced color gamut due to a very strong yellow color cast. So an IPS display isn't always automatically a good display.


Vaio Pro 13
XPS 15 (has LED though)
Alienware 14
Alienware 17
Kirabook

Of those you listed only the Kirabook has a directly comparable display, most seem to be lower resolution and/or TN panels, with LED backlighting in ALL of them, not just the XPS 15. (EDIT: Seems I wasn't quite correct, the Vaio actually has an IPS panel, and according to some reviews Alienware does offer a $150 IPS upgrade option for its laptops, though I was unable to configure a laptop with said option in the Alienware on-line store. Might be a geographical limitation.)

I think it's problematic, that in this comparison you are mixing together 13", 14", 15" and 17" laptops with different form factors, and different target demographics. The Kirabook would be the only one that happens to be very close to a 13" rMBP with it's IPS panel and slim form factor, and guess what? It's more expensive!

The Vaio seems to be somewhere between a MBA and a 13" rMBP, both price- and featurewise. So depending on which specific configuration we are talking about, it might actually a very good option for someone considering a 13" MBA or a 13" rMBP.

So you offered a couple of valid options there, that's very good. None of them backed the claim that rMBPs would be overpriced though. You just showed, that there are many different options available, targeted to many different demographics, and that if you want to compare the prices, you have to compare them to similar laptops with similar target groups and usages.

If you personally can't find any use for an IPS panel, then the rMBP, along with the top-of-the-line EliteBooks and ThinkPads (or whatever Dell and Fujitsu are currently offering to compete with those in their Precision and Celsius models, or even the Kirabook you mentioned) don't really make much sense. But for those who want and/or need a good quality screen, the options are limited and expensive. And among those options the rMBP is very competitively priced, and offers for instance longer battery life and smaller form factor than the competitors. These are niche products, and the target demographic seems to be more than willing to pay for what they get.

So don't count on Apple dropping the price any time soon, it has absolutely no reason to do so.
 
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I bought my Retina MacBook because I thought it was the best computer available that I could use to try out DPI scaling in Windows 7...

...and it is still the best computer for that purpose.



Vaio Pro 13 - screen is only 1920 x 1080, compared to the 13" rMBP at 2560 x 1600. And CPU is ULV.
XPS 15 - again, screen is only 1920 x 1080, versus the 15" rMBP at 2880 x 1800
Alienware 14 - same problem as above
Alienware 17 - very very same problem as above
Kirabook comes close in screen quality (2560 x 1440, so still less than the 13" rMBP, and almost 1M pixels less than the 15"), but falls short in processing power. It uses a ULV dual-core CPU. 15" rMBP comes with a quad-core CPU and discrete graphics, and you can buy 15" rMBP refurbished for LESS than what you'd have to pay for a Kirabook.

Fujitsu UH90 currently have best screen on the market :) you can buy it online

also later this year Dell is going to release its workstation M3800 with same IGZO display and 3200x1800 resolution

so Fujitsu UH90 is a direct compentition with toshiba kirabook and rMBP 13"

and Dell Mobile Workstation M3800 is real compentition for rMBP 15" and also it have better screen resoltion and better GPU than rMBP 15" unless apple is going to release Workstation type GPU but we know this is Apple and they wont do it -_-
 
These people have been trying to do this for years to reduce petrol prices. They have achieved absolutely nothing. Essentially they have wasted countless hours of their lives. They have appeared on national TV, in newspapers, you name it. Yet they never get close to a critical mass of people.

So given this well organised example what makes you think you can do better?
 
These people have been trying to do this for years to reduce petrol prices. They have achieved absolutely nothing. Essentially they have wasted countless hours of their lives. They have appeared on national TV, in newspapers, you name it. Yet they never get close to a critical mass of people.

So given this well organised example what makes you think you can do better?

He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:20.
 
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Matthew 17:20.

I'm an atheist. I don't find a quote from a book I consider to be a work of fiction to in any way refute evidence based argument of the futility of this approach.
 
Fujitsu UH90 currently have best screen on the market :) you can buy it online

also later this year Dell is going to release its workstation M3800 with same IGZO display and 3200x1800 resolution

so Fujitsu UH90 is a direct compentition with toshiba kirabook and rMBP 13"

and Dell Mobile Workstation M3800 is real compentition for rMBP 15" and also it have better screen resoltion and better GPU than rMBP 15" unless apple is going to release Workstation type GPU but we know this is Apple and they wont do it -_-

Fujitsu UH90 runs a ULV dual-core CPU, though. That's a far cry from the rMBP 15" quad-core CPU coupled with a dGPU.

And whether its screen is best is subjective since some people still prefer a 16:10 aspect ratio over a 16:9 aspect ratio.

And also in that context, the UH90 doesn't really have more vertical pixels than the rMBP 15". So technically, you aren't getting that much more resolution. Math shows that you're only getting 11% more pixels. ;)

Dell M3800 does look nice, though. But I'm not sure about "better GPU".

Workstation GPUs have mostly been about drivers support and compatibility rather than performance.

And benchmarks do show that. The 650M is still faster for gaming.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-K1000M.76894.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-650M.71887.0.html

Diablo 3 is almost twice as fast with 650M. I guess it's true that K1100M performance is still closer to 630M than it is to 650M.

Also to say... the rMBP 15" with its 650M GPU is still officially supported with Adobe After Effects... while the Quadro K1100M isn't in the list.
http://www.adobe.com/products/aftereffects/tech-specs.html

So if you work in After Effects, the 650M would be the better choice, even though it isn't "labeled" a workstation GPU. (side note: I can even provide you some links to show you that "workstation type" GPUs really aren't all that special, but let's leave that for another time)

And refurb rMBP 15" is even cheaper.
 
Where people examine the evidence and act rationally based on it yes. But I don't want to draw this thread towards PRSI.

An atheist is a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being.

Wisdom is the ability or result of an ability to think and act utilizing knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight. If one recognizes there is a wisdom in the creation of this universe, then he implicitly is recognizing there exist a supreme being (infinitely far superior than human being) behind this creation.

I don't understand why people chose to disbelieve come hell or high water...

Let's go back to our subject: Support our cause, Apple lower your prices... :D

In fact, if Apple lower its prices, it would still make huge profit margins based on high volume sells... Mr. Sales/Marketing 101, could you confirm it? :D
 
In fact, if Apple lower its prices, it would still make huge profit margins based on high volume sells... Mr. Sales/Marketing 101, could you confirm it? :D
And look where that got Dell :rolleyes:

Cutting prices is not always the answer and Apple isn't looking to increase sales at the expense of their profit margin.
 
And look where that got Dell :rolleyes:

Cutting prices is not always the answer and Apple isn't looking to increase sales at the expense of their profit margin.

Lowering the price and selling more is equal or better than selling less at higher prices...

If it is not the boycott, competitors will likely force Apple to cut prices...

I hope the release of Dell M3800 and other notebooks will be soon a game changer... :D
 
I have no plans on boycotting apple - that's plain silly. I think for what they provide in quality, design and ease of use, its a good use of my money.

If you don't want to spend the money, that's your decision and feel free to buy that dell, though I'd buy it sooner then later since they tried the selling more for less option and now they're struggling to survive.

Like I said, its your money and your decision, vote with your wallet, though as you can see by this thread your opinion is not necessary the consensus.
 
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