I'm not defending anything. Apple doesn't need my defense.
I'm literally throwing Gb and Gb at my Samsung daily, and I'm sure a quad core i7 is quite an heavier client than your iPhone....
TLC on a smartphone are more than adequate.
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How to tell if you have MLC or TLC flash iPhone 6/6 Plus
- Thread starter MarcusCarpenter
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I'm not defending anything. Apple doesn't need my defense.
I'm literally throwing Gb and Gb at my Samsung daily, and I'm sure a quad core i7 is quite an heavier client than your iPhone....
TLC on a smartphone are more than adequate.
Where are these 50 and 100 years conclusions drawn from? Flash memory can die very quickly. The data from many sources suggests that the average life of a consumer HDD is approx three years. SSD drives usually have a shorter life. TLC is much inferior to MLC when it comes to longevity. Now I'm not suggesting that the TLC flash in my 6+ will perish before I'm done with the phone, merely that I would have preferred Apple not to have cheaped out and given me an inferior module. TLC NAND uses more RAM, so perhaps my browser and app reloads would be less frustrating if I had MLC flash? Also your statement about TLC being faster, that isn't the case when it comes to the random writing of data, merely reading.
No one, outside of enterprise use, is ever going to wear out an SSD. No one, anywhere, is *ever* going to wear out the flash memory in a smartphone. It's just not going to happen - the phone won't be usable for long enough for that to be a problem. Even if you roll the thing over for use as an iPod, it's just not going to happen. You can't run enough read/write cycles for this to be a problem.
If that's true, either your friend borked the SSD or it was defective. I was going to link to the TechReport torture test, but someone already did that just above.
Let's hope that's true. The web is full of conflicting evidence but it does seem apparent that the smaller the flash memory, the quicker it will fail. I still remain unconvinced that SSDs last as long as a decent HDD, let alone for decades longer...
How to tell if you have MLC or TLC flash iPhone 6/6 Plus
That's correct: if you write the same amount of data each day on your flash, the same cell will be rewritten much more times if you have a smaller drive.
A MLC 16GB iPhone will wear out its flash much before a TLC 128GB iPhone... even though in both cases something else will probably fail much before that.
That's correct: if you write the same amount of data each day on your flash, the same cell will be rewritten much more times if you have a smaller drive.
A MLC 16GB iPhone will wear out its flash much before a TLC 128GB iPhone... even though in both cases something else will probably fail much before that.
On your last point, we'll find out? I remember when I first starting buying music CDs back in the very early 1980s - there was a lot of discussion about how they wouldn't last. All of mine from that period still play perfectly.
I've read from time to time that HDDs can't be stored unpowered and un-operated for long periods (years), but I've got some from machines I got rid of in the 1990s...and recently I actually went back to a HDD from 2000 (so, 14 years old) and took some data off it - it ran fine, at least for long enough to get what I needed.
The TechReport torture test series (it's a series of articles over time) is really interesting. Many of these SSDs vastly outperformed expectations when thrashed. Another SSD long term question is how well they will store if you pull them and leave them unpowered for years. All I can say is "we'll see."
On your last point, we'll find out? I remember when I first starting buying music CDs back in the very early 1980s - there was a lot of discussion about how they wouldn't last. All of mine from that period still play perfectly.
I've read from time to time that HDDs can't be stored unpowered and un-operated for long periods (years), but I've got some from machines I got rid of in the 1990s...and recently I actually went back to a HDD from 2000 (so, 14 years old) and took some data off it - it ran fine, at least for long enough to get what I needed.
The TechReport torture test series (it's a series of articles over time) is really interesting. Many of these SSDs vastly outperformed expectations when thrashed. Another SSD long term question is how well they will store if you pull them and leave them unpowered for years. All I can say is "we'll see."
Agreed. Let's hope the tech is up to the job.
I have a 3 cell/TLC 64 gb 6 plus, and it doesnt crash or reboot , besides once in a while an app from iOS app store that crashes(that gets better with updates and optimizations) it runs great
I have a week 51 6 plus 64GB with TLC. So far no problems either. Hopefully they corrected the problem.
HDD are mechanical devices. They surely will die sooner than SSDs, unless you aren't use them in a very heavy way (hardly something a single user can do).
Sorry mate, but as you said the Internet is a dangerous place, and forums like this can spread false information, in fact you have just done so.
I assume you work in IT , and know your stuff, you should also know better than choosing one product, the 840 to defend technology as a whole, given the we are yet to see how reliable the 840s will be over time. Also the 840 sold based on the reputation and sucess of the 830 which was an awesome device, though was it not a MLC device?
The fact of the matter is, if you want the best SSDs, it's simple, SLC, MLC and TLC In that order.
For anyone looking into this issue, I would recommend googling. SLC v MLC v TLC, fact is TLC is a compromise, and while getting better it still comes last, don't believe what people post on MR. I will always buy a TLC model last. For me buying a TLC ssd is like buying a seagate HD, yeah they work...... Just fine but for how long????
The fact is, there is something wrong with the iPhone 6 plus 128, I have a TLC model and I get constant crashes using Safari and apple apps. I do not have the time to do the analysis , so just made an appointment with apple, and they can explain why the phone had constant freezes/crashes without using 3rd party apps.
Your comparing a desktop drive to iPhone storage, when we can pop in a 840 into an iPhone 6 via PCI, you might have a comparison. Your doing a comparriosn like apple markerting would do it
And what do you think people who bought TLC drives that were not the Samsung 840s, and had issues would be saying right now if they had an iPhone with TLC that was having issues?
Never use one product to defend a technology architecture .
So your culture is based on Google? Nice to know....
As widely demonstrated, even on your beloved Google, a TLC NAND will last years, and I mean many years, even if stressed with Gb and Gb of write /read cycles every single day. For smartphone usage that means more then 10 years in the worst case, while if you are lucky your phone will last 3 years before becoming absolute (and its NAND still capable of working for years).
NO ONE PROVED THAT ISSUES WITH IPHONE 6+ 128 GB WERE RELATED TO THE TYPE OF NAND USED. Actually quite the contrary, since Apple are still using TLC on every model, including 64 Gb versions, and the users reporting issues were a ridiculous low number.
This is the web. One defective batch (it could happen), 100 customer affected (a casual number, it could be 1000 it doesn't matter), one word by an unknown Asian source and the hysteria ramps up on forums like this.
Your comparing a desktop drive to iPhone storage, when we can pop in a 840 into an iPhone 6 via PCI, you might have a comparison. Your doing a comparriosn like apple markerting would do it
And what do you think people who bought TLC drives that were not the Samsung 840s, and had issues would be saying right now if they had an iPhone with TLC that was having issues?
Never use one product to defend a technology architecture .
If you search better on Google, you'd find that surprisingly enough (for you) NAND used in SSD are not different from NAND used in phones.
Again you are spreading completely false informations.
Samsung is selling TLC SSD even for the enterprise server market.
http://techreport.com/news/26381/samsung-selling-server-ssds-based-on-three-bit-tlc-nand
Toshiba, hynix and SanDisk are selling fast and reliable SSD using TLC NAND.
In 2015 more than 40% of the SSD market would be TLC, and it's going to be more in the next years.
Gregory Wong, President of Forward Insights, observes that “NAND flash memory is transitioning to TLC technology in an effort to improve the affordability and increase adoption of solid-state drives. Solutions such as Silicon Motion’s SM2256 controller enable systems manufacturers to leverage TLC technology in cost-effective SSD products without compromising performance, endurance or reliability,”
Another pertinent observation comes from Michael Yang, senior principal analyst at IHS iSUPPLi: “We expect TLC SSDs to account for more than 40% of all client SSD shipments in 2015. The combination of cost effective TLC NAND and new controllers like Silicon Motion’s SM2256 will help drive this level of adoption.”
But here we have mh01 saying that he found on Google that we have to worry about TLC.....
Attachments
You have no idea how to do analysis , you effectively find a link or quote on the Internet, or a product and that is game over, conclusive evidence.
Instead of wasting time defecting from the real issue, and showing us links how TLC is improving, spoiler alert , all tech improves , please provide evidence that TLC is superior. It's not as per my post stating which is superior
Did I say the NAND is different ??? I was making a point that someone who who supposedly claims to know their stuff is ******* up and comparing a desktop ssd, and iphone implementations. Let me help you, how do you connect your 840 to the computer? Now think about the motherboard architecture.... Let's leave it at this, and see if your catching on...
Of course, generally speaking, TLC technology is inferior to MLC technology.
But that does not provide the complete picture: the specific TLC chip used in iPhone 6 is much faster than the specific MLC one, especially in write speed. All benchmarks prove that.
So, in iPhone 6, the specific TLC implementation is better than MLC.
Anyway Max, this is going to be a waste of time.
Since your hung up over the Samsung 840 as your benchmark , and evidence, let me me summaries this.
MLC better than TLC
Evidence
Samsung 840 pro better than Samsung 840
Why?
Samsung 840 pro = MLC : Samsung 840 = TLC
Feel free to prove otherwise , happy to see linked evidence where the TLC drive is better than the MLC, I think Samsung and I agree the pro is better. Hence pro costs more. You get what you pay for.
Sometimes a practicle example on MR is the best way.
My point is TLC while improving is still inferior, irrespective of how you swing it. And proving your point using one product is silly. The fact the 840 pro is a superior product proves TLC is inferior and cheaper.
Can I ask, you buy seagate drives????
Since your hung up over the Samsung 840 as your benchmark , and evidence, let me me summaries this.
MLC better than TLC
Evidence
Samsung 840 pro better than Samsung 840
Why?
Samsung 840 pro = MLC : Samsung 840 = TLC
Feel free to prove otherwise , happy to see linked evidence where the TLC drive is better than the MLC, I think Samsung and I agree the pro is better. Hence pro costs more. You get what you pay for.
Sometimes a practicle example on MR is the best way.
My point is TLC while improving is still inferior, irrespective of how you swing it. And proving your point using one product is silly. The fact the 840 pro is a superior product proves TLC is inferior and cheaper.
Can I ask, you buy seagate drives????
Please read again my posts. In your downplay Apple effort you probably missed something.
I never started TLC to be superior. I started they are more than ADEQUATE for smartphone use.
Motherboard architecture has NOTHING to do with TLC reliability over the time. Nothing at all.
For speed yes I agree. My question is, is it the cause of people issues. Enough articles on the net that suggest the TLC implementation is the cause of issues in iPhone 6.
I did not join this thread cause I was was bored, my 128 TLC iPhone suffers from bad freezing, and not even on 3rd party apps. My colleague has a MLC and he has no issues, though as its just 2 phones that is not enough of a sample to make conclusions. I would have preferred to have a MLC unit , happy to give up outright speed for reliability/stability
Again and again you totally missed the point. No-one on this thread reported TLC as overall superior of MLC.
We are speaking about TLC as totally fine in smartphone and SSD use. And the market again is confirming it.
SLC are even superior than MLC. That's totally irrelevant.
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Not "enough articles". Just ONE UNCONFIRMED SOURCE, BusinessKorea ,reported on many websites where the information is barely a copy & past of something else (this is the web today
).The same "reliable source" reported at the half of November Apple to cease using TLC NAND. Apple denied that, and at the start of 2015 they are still using TLC on 128 and 64 Gb models.
Speaking about internet reliability....
And it doesn't imply TLC technology is the culprit, but just that a batch of bad TLC NAND could be the reason.
As usual people ignoring what TLC is, are making things up about nothing....
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