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HP, Napster and iTunes

Europe launch

I think Napster has no chance to launch a online Music Store in europe before iTunes. We are all desesparately wanting for iTunesMusic Store...apple should speed up, because some online store already exist over there, based on iTMS system, but with more format compatibility, especially for Pc users.
 
The article mentions iTunes having a 56% market share. Didn't Steve say at MWSF that it had a 70% market share and, just after the iTunes for Windows annoucement, 80%? It may be by far the number one, but it seems to be falling fast. (Or I am comparing apples with potatoes?)

Just how many music download stores are there now in the US?
 
A couple of comments:
1. IMHO, their Branding consultant should have realized that taking a brand that means "any music at your fingertips for free" to "pay for limited use or access or both for some music" had to be a failure. To me Napster still symbolizes the Internet revolution, the old Napster that is. Name recognition isn't everything, brand value is!

2. I wonder how they can claim that they will be doing better with the impending launch of Napster paid service in Europe, when there are so many hurdles according to Apple. Is Apple the only one that is being honest, and Napster is blowing hot air? Such BS can't be good for brand loyalty building...

3. While I share the optimism of the iTunes MS with the rest of the posters, I do think the Jury is still out. Eventually it will boil down to a standards war who is successful. Obviously Apple has a leg up on the competition, but the war has barely been started, and the Napster etc. deal are only first battles of what is yet to come (i.e. Microsoft etc.)

Anyway, hope the iTMS succeeds, I love buying stuff there, even though I think it is kind of a rip off compared to CDs (no resale value, lesser sound quality, and only a little cheaper compared to discounters like Best Buy), but it is just soooo convenient....
 
It's the iPod that's killing Napster

The iPod is killing Napster in two ways. People want to buy music online for their iPods, not some other POS. And of course, the new Napster was designed to make a profit, but iTMS is merely designed to break even and support the iPod.


How ironic that, for once, a sector of the tech industry is dominated by an integrated software-hardware combo, and who else but Apple would be the one marketing that model. :D
 
Originally posted by CMYanko
The Napster layoffs showed up on F*ckedCompany yesterday.
Click to expand...
What's really strange is that Apple showed up there yesterday too with the news item that they paid off the last of their corporate debt. Logically, that news item should have been listed as a "Luck" (i.e. a good thing to happen to a company), but it was instead listed as a mild "F*ck". Oh well, whoever said that anything on that site made any sense?
 
The subscription model is a failure

So far, Steve Jobs is being proven right on this one. All the music services that predated iTMS (PressPlay, etc) were all predicated on monthly subscription fees to "rent" music, and all of those music services were disappointments or outright failures. Chris Gorog and Napster are clinging onto their subscription model like a life buoy, but that buoy has a big leak in it.

Again, Napster isn't really driving hardware sales. They kind of did the right thing by partnering with Samsung, but how many people actually went out and bought Samsung MP3 players? And how much money does Napster make on sales of the hardware? Probably none, or very little.

If people want to spend money on music, they want to have more ownership over it. They want the file to live on their hard drive and/or iPod and be playable without having to authenticate to some DRM server on the Internet first. One can find fault with aspects of Apple's DRM/authorization routines, but they're the most balanced and fair in the industry at this point.

The interesting question will be how many usage rights the general public is willing to give up for the music they purchase online. That will be one important determining factor in whether iTMS or one of the WMA-based services ends up being the market leader.
 
Originally posted by Rincewind42
Well, unless Fairplay is licensed to them it won't really matter if they do. And while I like that Apple is currently owning the legal market, in the long term I think they will need to allow others to sell Fairplay encoded AAC, and even further out to license other players to play it. Basically kill 1 or 2 of the major WMA services (Napster & some one else) and then allow themselves to make money on others who want to sell & play their DRM flavor.
Click to expand...

unless apple bought fairplay, then they don't have any say in who licenses fairplay and who doesn't. they licensed the tech from the circle group (http://64.244.235.240/explained_works.asp).

now that site hasn't been updated since 2001, their parent company just has a parked domain so maybe apple has purchased them. they may also have a special agreement with them, like apple did with toshiba's ipod hard drives, that gives them an exclusive license for X years.
 
napster != napster

for those who are unaware, napster is not napster now. it's not even the same program. it's roxio's music store. the only thing similar about old napster and new napster is the name, that's it. roxio bought mindshare.
 
killer wma to mp3 conversion could help Napsterites

People with their wma dl music from Napster may well be a little concerned that their investment in Napster may well turn out to be an expensive exercise in being proved right by the Steve Jobs vision of the best way to sell music on the internet. But rather than laughing at them with their wma library, which has become an expensive barrier to seeing the light of the iPod, it could be Apple to the rescue.

I don't know how well wma to mp3 convertors work on the Windows side, but I have been playing around with ffmpegx and after converting some classical music to MP3 from wma, the mp3 still sounded pretty damn good on my system. Get that installed into iTunes and welcome the Napster refugees to iTunes and iPod land.
 
I never thought the new Napster would do very well. Like other posters mentioned, the subscription model is inherently flawed relative to consumers' expectations of a download service. I see this as meaning that none of the subscription models will survive long-term, but non-subscription services like the iTMS will survive and maybe even turn a profit (for Apple, at least).
 
Originally posted by crawdad62
Now that's an interesting possibility. Actually I'm surprised it did happen from the get-go. I guess MS is/was betting on its very own service but it seemed like a decent marriage.
Click to expand...

Interesting, but a challenge for MS in a couple of ways.

First, Microsoft wants to try an lure the music companies to WMA by demonstrating that they are independent and not competing with the record companies. I think the record companies are a little worried about MS...and given their past, no wonder.

Second, Microsoft would have to finnesse the fact that they would suddenly be competing with all of the other WMA-base music download services. Ouch.

Third, if they are not careful, they could run afoul of the Justice Department. The Justice Department is already looking into TWO things with MS right now. First is whether they are actually living up to the wrist slap they received for the monopoly conviction. Second is whether or not they are pulling an IE with the music business right now.
 
falling

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
The article mentions iTunes having a 56% market share. Didn't Steve say at MWSF that it had a 70% market share and, just after the iTunes for Windows annoucement, 80%? It may be by far the number one, but it seems to be falling fast. (Or I am comparing apples with potatoes?)

Just how many music download stores are there now in the US?
Click to expand...

very likely that the % will fall to a more reasonable number as the competitors line up but when they fall the spoils goes to the survivors and iTMS could again rise to the early lofty status. As long as the download rate goes up there will be no problem with the iTMS. Even an end 30% market share would be very very nice.
 
Re: napster != napster

Originally posted by omnivector
for those who are unaware, napster is not napster now. it's not even the same program. it's roxio's music store. the only thing similar about old napster and new napster is the name, that's it. roxio bought mindshare.
Click to expand...


Not quite. Also the software and the storage was moved to Roxio and the music as well as they did not have to work so hard at getting all the songs uploaded to the servers. They fixed up the store front but it was still the Napster service with more restrictions.
 
eating one's words

Chris Gorog, like Michael Dell and others who have not only just made digs at Apple- that's fair- but have vented overt hostility at public meetings- not fair and not very professional, for that matter- should learn a lesson about "foot in mouth disease." It can be lethal.
Steve Jobs' digs pale by comparison to the vitriol poured on Apple by these less stellar men. They should note that in many cases the words one utters in contempt may boomerang right back.
So now, Chris, tell us again, what was that directive advising the music industry to steer clear of Apple about? I lost something in the translation.
 
Napster...

Kind of stupid to think you could stick the word "Napster" on a restrictive music service and have success. Consumers aren't that stupid...

Even with iTunes short comings it's still the best thing ever and the best use of digitial rights. Things I still don't know is... What will become of my AAC files after 5-10 years. My CDs (atleast the ones that aren't scracthed) still play fine today. Also the inability to transfer ownership to someone else if I no longer enjoy a song. (no resale value) I buy songs occasionaly on iTunes, but I'm still leary of purchasing hundreds of iTune tracks atleast until I see what the future holds for it... (not that I have hundreds of tracks i really want to buy)

I'd imagine Napster with it's limited song selection must suck. iTunes has really come a long way with it's catalog over the last few months but still many older or rare albums are either not there or only partial albums. It is getting better, and a search one week will give completly different results next week.

Looks like the other services are starting to drop like flies...
 
Originally posted by Lightningwolf
Cheers to the imminent death of a WMA service. Does anyone actually use WMA encoded music files? I know all of my music is AAC and MP3's...
Click to expand...

Most PC magazines I buy (I own a PC with win XP running iTunes and it doesnt crash, I work on a Mac) dont actually mention AAC as a codec frormat when comapring MP3 players. They compare the "iPod killers" and then tell you at the end of the comparison that the iPod is the best one but they only mention .wma and MP3 as the codec and say how good it is along with the various PC music download stores with a brief mention about iTMS only being available in the US.
MY guess would be that the other 95% of the worlds computer owning PC using population out there do use Windows Media Player or Winamp or dbpoweramp which is probably the best of all PC MP3 players would definitenly use .wma

Good news about Napsters financial woes!
 
Re: Europe launch

Originally posted by eric67
I think Napster has no chance to launch a online Music Store in europe before iTunes. We are all desesparately wanting for iTunesMusic Store...apple should speed up, because some online store already exist over there, based on iTMS system, but with more format compatibility, especially for Pc users.
Click to expand...


This should explain it for you- quoted from NZMacguide.co.nz

I thought the problem with international distribution is that the rights aren't as easy as you might hope - I have a bad feeling it goes something like:

Taking an artist I know some of the distribution rights of -
Mushroom handled distribution of Split Enz music in Australia and New Zealand, but a different company (EMI I think?) had the rights in the US.
If that company agrees with Apple that Apple can distribute Split Enz songs in the US, then Apple can distribute Split Enz songs in the US.
However, Apple can't provide that service to a NZer, sitting in NZ, with a NZ Visa card, since the distribution rights in NZ belong to Mushroom, who haven't agreed to Apple distributing Split Enz songs anywhere.
 
Originally posted by Rincewind42
Well, unless Fairplay is licensed to them it won't really matter if they do. And while I like that Apple is currently owning the legal market, in the long term I think they will need to allow others to sell Fairplay encoded AAC, and even further out to license other players to play it. Basically kill 1 or 2 of the major WMA services (Napster & some one else) and then allow themselves to make money on others who want to sell & play their DRM flavor.
Click to expand...

Just a thought, but is any music service going to want to use pAAC? If they do, then the user will have to use iTunes to play their music, and as soon as they have iTunes, why would they want to use another music service when iTMS is right there, integrated? Yes, it's true that some music services have more niche music, but that'd hardly be enough to keep them afloat. I think that signing on for pAAC would be a nail in the coffin for any other music service.
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
Just a thought, but is any music service going to want to use pAAC? If they do, then the user will have to use iTunes to play their music, and as soon as they have iTunes, why would they want to use another music service when iTMS is right there, integrated? Yes, it's true that some music services have more niche music, but that'd hardly be enough to keep them afloat. I think that signing on for pAAC would be a nail in the coffin for any other music service.
Click to expand...

What makes you think a pAAC licensee can't develop a pAAC decoder for their chosen media player and use that in their service? I don't see licensing of pAAC as a bad thing for other music services; rather, it's a good thing because it helps to spread AAC and increase compatibility between iTMS and other services. (It also better defends Apple against Microsoft's WMA format.)
 
Re: Europe launch

Originally posted by eric67
I think Napster has no chance to launch a online Music Store in europe before iTunes. We are all desesparately wanting for iTunesMusic Store...apple should speed up, because some online store already exist over there, based on iTMS system, but with more format compatibility, especially for Pc users.
Click to expand...

Napster could get a Europe service up sooner, if they didn't want a universally consistent service across all of Europe. From what I've read, that's what's holding up the iTMS, Apple's insistence on having the rules consistent across all of Europe...
 
Re: killer wma to mp3 conversion could help Napsterites

Originally posted by billyboy
... it could be Apple to the rescue...

... converting ... to MP3 from wma... Get that installed into iTunes and welcome the Napster refugees to iTunes and iPod land.
Click to expand...

I think that there are two flaws with your idea. First, I doubt that WMA to MP3 converters will work on DRM protected WMAs. Second, as MP3s aren't protected, I'd think that the record industry would be very unhappy with Apple for installing such a thing into iTunes, if it did work on pWMAs.

However, I agree that Apple could come to the rescue. They could offer something like pAAC replacements for WMA that have been downloaded from another service for a minimal fee. Say, $.25.
 
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