HP, Napster and iTunes

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by singletrack
I thought it was because Real used their own 'Helix' DRM instead of FairPlay or do they also use a different format for non-DRMd AAC files?

That would be mad as then other players like WinAmp or QCD wouldn't play them.

Well, even if they did use a DRM that was compatible with Quicktime, they would have to embed it in an MPEG-4 container for Quicktime to understand it. From the Helix Producer manual (which doesn't address DRM'd AAC) they only support AAC audio in MPEG-4, 3GPP, and 3GPP-2 containers. So it is likely that DRM free AAC files from Real will play in Quicktime (since it supports all 3 of those formats). Of course, they could also port their file format and DRM to Quicktime and enable Mac users to use them. Of course they could be using an MPEG-4 container with a format codec that Quicktime doesn't understand (I haven't seen these particular files, so I can't tell you which it is...) but oddly somehow I doubt that...

I just wish it were easier to find stuff on Real's website. It's telling when you need to use Google to find useful information on a website...

Edit: Seems Nermal has discovered that even Real's documentation doesn't necessarily jive with reality . So it looks like Real will encode AAC into Real Media format containers.

 

[Nermal]

Here's what happens if you try to play an AAC:

 

[iMeowbot]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
An interesting question, why doesn't IBM have iTunes on all of their PCs? Wouldn't that make sense, given the alliance between Apple and IBM?

IBM still do SOHO, but they pretty much withdrew from the consumer space over the past few years. It was never a market they really fit very well anyway, and with the margins these days on home Wintel hardware I doubt they regret it very much.

 

[Nermal]

Speaking of IBM's home computers, a friend of mine got an IBM Aptiva in about 1996. It ran Windows 95, but was heavily customised for the home user, with plenty of games and home applications all preinstalled and preconfigured.

In 2000, she decided to get a new computer, and bought another Aptiva. Unlike the old one, her new Aptiva was completely different in that it seemed be more of a "bland box" than the customised home package she got with her old one. It wouldn't surprise me if MS had something to do with it, they probably thought IBM was "diluting the Windows brand" or something by customising it

 

[iKenny]

The 56% question

It is a good question about why they list Apple with only 56% now. If Napster's only selling 1/4 of what Apple's selling, and Napster's number 2, then how can Apple only have 56%? Oh well, the more pressing question is what will happen when iPod isn't #1 (since I don't think it will be forever, great as it is).

 

[macnews]

Maybe it is wrong, but I do get some joy out of these copy cats who try think all they have to do is put up some songs on a website.

I would like to see some competition for iTunes, but after the ACC format (or whatever is next) becomes THE format. Screw WMA. Once that is settled, then bring on the competitors.

 

[Snowy_River]

Re: The 56% question

Originally posted by iKenny
It is a good question about why they list Apple with only 56% now. If Napster's only selling 1/4 of what Apple's selling, and Napster's number 2, then how can Apple only have 56%? ...

And the most recent sales data reported to two of the major music labels shows Napster with an estimated 12 percent share of the download market, compared to Apple's 56 percent

They are only at 56% based on data from two of the five major labels. We don't know which two they're talking about, and we don't know how much of the overall music market those two represent. Apple could fairly easily be fifteen points higher including the other three labels...

 

[BwanaZulia]

So what about the others?

How is Walmart doing?

How is BuyMusic.com doing?

There are things that Apple gets right and there are things that Apple gets RIGHT! iTMS/iPod is just 100% right with me.

- I go every tuesday and at least buy a track or two (maybe an album)

- My wife and I will hear a song on the radio/TV (O.C.) and will head over to the Mac and buy it.

- I have 400+ CDs and that will probably be it. I never sell them or trade them and once they are all ripped (RevB G5 please) They will just go into storage.

- I have spent MORE on music in the last year then (iTMS) the previous two years (CDS) because of the convience, price, ability.

The one thing I would like to see in iTunes is an EASY way to get protected/bought music from one computer to another. Like when I am sharing my music from my desktop to my powerbook and they are bother authorized to play the music (cause they have to be) why can't I just right-click on a song/album/playlist and say "Add To Library" and it copies it over. Seems so simple, yet...

BZ

 

[srobert]

Originally posted by BwanaZulia
So what about the others?

How is Walmart doing?

How is BuyMusic.com doing?

Probably worst since Apple is #1 and Napster is #2. Unless they have a lower running cost.

 

[Wendy_Rebecca]

Re: Re: killer wma to mp3 conversion could help Napsterites

Originally posted by Snowy_River
However, I agree that Apple could come to the rescue. They could offer something like pAAC replacements for WMA that have been downloaded from another service for a minimal fee. Say, $.25.

Y'know...that's not a bad idea. But here's the thing: WMA is going to win this standards war; there's no question about it. Went shopping for a DVD player the other night, and the boxes all screamed, "Plays back DVD, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, CD Audio, MP3, WMA".

Not ONE played back AAC or Apple's Proprietary Protected AAC. NOT ONE.

Apple needs to support WMA playback on the iPod so that all those folks buying music elsewhere (the other 40%) can play that music back on the iPod. Simple as that.

 

[Rincewind42]

Re: Re: Re: killer wma to mp3 conversion could help Napsterites

Originally posted by Wendy_Rebecca
Y'know...that's not a bad idea. But here's the thing: WMA is going to win this standards war; there's no question about it. Went shopping for a DVD player the other night, and the boxes all screamed, "Plays back DVD, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, CD Audio, MP3, WMA".

Not ONE played back AAC or Apple's Proprietary Protected AAC. NOT ONE.

That may be true, but how many people actually use any of those products to play back WMA? And how many of them actually play *Protected* WMA. Most don't. Thus the other 40% are damned either way.

 

[Mac Dummy]

Napster's propetiary software

The reason Napster is losing so bad to iTunes is that it requires users to download the Napster propetiary software. Users can't use iTunes to download songs. I do wish that iTunes supported asf file format though.

 

[Mac Dummy]

Originally posted by BwanaZulia
So what about the others?

How is Walmart doing?

How is BuyMusic.com doing?

There are things that Apple gets right and there are things that Apple gets RIGHT! iTMS/iPod is just 100% right with me.

- I go every tuesday and at least buy a track or two (maybe an album)

- My wife and I will hear a song on the radio/TV (O.C.) and will head over to the Mac and buy it.

- I have 400+ CDs and that will probably be it. I never sell them or trade them and once they are all ripped (RevB G5 please) They will just go into storage.

- I have spent MORE on music in the last year then (iTMS) the previous two years (CDS) because of the convience, price, ability.

The one thing I would like to see in iTunes is an EASY way to get protected/bought music from one computer to another. Like when I am sharing my music from my desktop to my powerbook and they are bother authorized to play the music (cause they have to be) why can't I just right-click on a song/album/playlist and say "Add To Library" and it copies it over. Seems so simple, yet...

BZ

I don't know how Walmart is doing. I know that you can buy songs for 88 cents, 10 cents less than all other service, however they only offer them in asf format, a format that iTunes doesn't support yet.

 

[Mac Dummy]

Re: The subscription model is a failure

Originally posted by Silencio
So far, Steve Jobs is being proven right on this one. All the music services that predated iTMS (PressPlay, etc) were all predicated on monthly subscription fees to "rent" music, and all of those music services were disappointments or outright failures. Chris Gorog and Napster are clinging onto their subscription model like a life buoy, but that buoy has a big leak in it.

Again, Napster isn't really driving hardware sales. They kind of did the right thing by partnering with Samsung, but how many people actually went out and bought Samsung MP3 players? And how much money does Napster make on sales of the hardware? Probably none, or very little.

If people want to spend money on music, they want to have more ownership over it. They want the file to live on their hard drive and/or iPod and be playable without having to authenticate to some DRM server on the Internet first. One can find fault with aspects of Apple's DRM/authorization routines, but they're the most balanced and fair in the industry at this point.

The interesting question will be how many usage rights the general public is willing to give up for the music they purchase online. That will be one important determining factor in whether iTMS or one of the WMA-based services ends up being the market leader.

It's rather easy to get around Apple's authorization rountines, if you wanted to play ITMS songs on more than 3 computers, rip a CD of those songs and then reimport into iTunes and voila! No more copy protection.

 

[Snowy_River]

Re: Re: The subscription model is a failure

Originally posted by Mac Dummy
It's rather easy to get around Apple's authorization rountines, if you wanted to play ITMS songs on more than 3 computers, rip a CD of those songs and then reimport into iTunes and voila! No more copy protection.

And voila, significantly degraded sound quality...

 

[Sabenth]

volla

digital audio files can be converted without to much loss if you really feel the need not to have the protection. so why buy the dam track in the first place and not use the p2p networks...


i am using no grammer for a reason

 

[rdowns]

Originally posted by winmacguy


Good news about Napsters financial woes!

Is it? If/when Napster fails, how many people will be totally turned off from buying music online when stories of those who purchased songs/albums from the defunct store can't use them? Buying music online is still in the early adopter stage IMO.

 

[rdowns]

Re: Re: Europe launch

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Napster could get a Europe service up sooner, if they didn't want a universally consistent service across all of Europe. From what I've read, that's what's holding up the iTMS, Apple's insistence on having the rules consistent across all of Europe...

A universal service across Europe would certainly be best from a cost and accounting point of view for Apple. I hope their stubborness doesn't cause them to lose the European market. Apple's stubborness has caused many a problem in their past.

 

[rdowns]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
An interesting question, why doesn't IBM have iTunes on all of their PCs? Wouldn't that make sense, given the alliance between Apple and IBM?

Hasn't IBM all but abandoned the consumer PC market? If they haven't, they likely have a lower market share than Apple. Apple is sure trying to help them with their anemic (read overpriced, under powered, older technology) consumer lineup.

 

[rdowns]

Re: The 56% question

Originally posted by iKenny
It is a good question about why they list Apple with only 56% now. If Napster's only selling 1/4 of what Apple's selling, and Napster's number 2, then how can Apple only have 56%? Oh well, the more pressing question is what will happen when iPod isn't #1 (since I don't think it will be forever, great as it is).

I'd be more interested in online sales as a % of all music sales. I heard a radio report earlier in the week that stated that the record companies sold more CDs last week (post Grammy awards) than in any other week ever.

There's a marketing opportunity for Apple. Live commercials at the Grammy's touting the ability to download and buy now the previous song/album winner. "Congratulations to Crapmaster for winning Best Song of the Year. Download it now at iTMS and while you're there, check out the other 57 tracks by Crapmaster".

 

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by rdowns
Hasn't IBM all but abandoned the consumer PC market? If they haven't, they likely have a lower market share than Apple. Apple is sure trying to help them with their anemic (read overpriced, under powered, older technology) consumer lineup.

All I know is that I'm taking a course from two adjunct professors here. One is a former Moto exec, and the other is a former IBM exec. The IBM exec gets Moto cell phones, and the Moto exec gets IBM PCs.

(An interesting aside: I asked the IBM exec if he thought that IBM would release PCs based on the PPC chips running Linux in the foreseeable future. He said he was sure that they would... )

 

[electric]

Deja vu all over again,

Does the whole music downloading thing seem a little familiar to you or is it me? I might be showing my age but I remember about 4 or 5 years ago when it was totally cool to throw out business models and throw bunches of cash at any half baked idea of a web venture. Sounds like people are at it again. I have this brother in Law who has countless get rich schemes and it seems like other people do too.

I don't know if it's true what Steve says about Apple not making money from music sales and that it's only a means to justify the ends of selling more hardware and software but if it is true it is most certainly brilliant. Talk about finding a niche and having market dominance, It seems to me that nobody can touch this (props to MC Hammer)

As human beings, are we all stifled in our creativity? can we not think of the next big thing? or at least something originally cool? I bet that when Edison invented the light bulb, people in his close proximity said "well thats it! he's done it! there are no more inventions left."

I wonder what a world of no recordable devices and copyable abilities would be like. I think we would be a much more creative species, unlike those others out there.

T-Rubble

 

[SiliconAddict]

Re: Napster's propetiary software

Originally posted by Mac Dummy
The reason Napster is losing so bad to iTunes is that it requires users to download the Napster propetiary software. Users can't use iTunes to download songs. I do wish that iTunes supported asf file format though.

Umm that's WAY flawed logic. It could be also said that you can't use Music Match to download iTunes songs so iTunes is just as proprietary as Napster. At least any WMA file works with any music software that plays WMA. (e.g. A song purchased on Napster will also play on Music Match, Windows Media Player, etc.) So in that regard it more open then iTunes is.

 

[xelent]

Has it occurred to Itunes that you could convert there files to CD then rip to MP3 again, solves the compatibility issues