I can't do it -- Spend $2000+ on a laptop that can never be upgraded

[emptyCup]

After reviewing the iFixit teardown of the "New" rMBP I was very surprised to see there is absolutely NO ability to upgrade anything.

Long before you were born I watched my father fix a TV he built himself (Heathkit for those old enough) by checking the tubes. As an adult, I remember dragging my set to the TV repair shop because buying a new one was just too expensive. High quality, low cost, less flexibility. So it goes with the future.

All the business pundits say Apple is too secretive. But the MBPR is a clear roadmap of where Apple thinks computing is going. It is too expensive for many now, just like the Air was when it was released. That is why there is a non-retina version. It will get cheaper. Eventually everyone will copy it. Progress, which in the computer industry means what Apple does, marches on.

But, for that old time flavor, build a Hackintosh. It's not like the days when real men could solder parts onto a breadboard, but it will do as an example of why most people don't want to mess with this stuff.

 

[theSeb]

Long before you were born I watched my father fix a TV he built himself (Heathkit for those old enough) by checking the tubes. As an adult, I remember dragging my set to the TV repair shop because buying a new one was just too expensive. High quality, low cost, less flexibility. So it goes with the future.

All the business pundits say Apple is too secretive. But the MBPR is a clear roadmap of where Apple thinks computing is going. It is too expensive for many now, just like the Air was when it was released. That is why there is a non-retina version. It will get cheaper. Eventually everyone will copy it. Progress, which in the computer industry means what Apple does, marches on.

But, for that old time flavor, build a Hackintosh. It's not like the days when real men could solder parts onto a breadboard, but it will do as an example of why most people don't want to mess with this stuff.

Good point about TVs. The same thing is happening with cars these days. Servicing your own car is basically no longer possible with specialist equipment and knowledge. Even the mechanics at dealerships don't know how to fix many things. All they do is replace.

----------

You and I had a very different experience. My last build (with the q6600 cpu) failed me after three years of service. It gave me BSOD randomly during the three years of use and eventually died, which I found out later was caused by a bad ram.

As for ssd's reliability. You might want to read this article from Tom's hardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923.html

Here are some quotes from the end of this article:

"As Dr. Steve Swanson, who researches NAND, adds, 'It's not like manufacturers make drives as reliable as they possibly can. They make them as reliable as economically feasible'"

"The only definitive conclusion we can reach right now is that you should take any claim of reliability from an SSD vendor with a grain of salt."

"Rather, our purpose here is to call into question the idea that SSDs are definitely more reliable than hard drives, based on today's limited backup for such a claim."

One of my friend, who happens to be a certified HP computer technician, shares the same sentiment towards ssd technology.

I've actually read that article when it was first published and there is nothing surprising in there. With a warranty and a customer experience as seamless as Apple's, I am really not concerned. If this thing fails, then it's their problem.

 

[pragmatous]

3800 dollars on a laptop is completely ridiculous.

My limit was 2000 on the mac I got but that got pushed up to 2300 +tax =2500. But that's ok that is just one extra monthly payment for me and I got the high end real MBP. Not the fake retina MBP

That is why I ordered the $3799 model that I won't need to upgrade

Seriously though I do feel your pain. I think the main issue for people is the price for more SSD space. Trust me if you haven't used and SSD before it is worth it. They fly. I put one in my 17" 2010 MBP a few months ago and it has been a different computer- very very fast! I wait for no app now!

 

[theSeb]

3800 dollars on a laptop is completely ridiculous.

My limit was 2000 on the mac I got but that got pushed up to 2300 +tax =2500. But that's ok that is just one extra monthly payment for me and I got the high end real MBP. Not the fake retina MBP

I think it's ok for people to spend their money how they wish. Some people are happy with a $20 watch. Some prefer a $1000. Others prefer a $30,000 one. How does that impact you?

 

[leman]

I already asked this before and I will ask it again. Why would you ever want to upgrade anything in that computer? Spec-wise, it is good to go for at least next 5 years, after which you are supposed to get a new machine anyway. I just don't get all this 'upgradeability' talk. What good does it do you to have an upgradable laptop if you need to trade 30% of weight and size for it? Mobility > upgradeability, and let's be honest, Apple offers very competitive bang per buck here.

If you want to have maxed out machine, just go for the 512GB MBP. Given that Samsung 830 512GB SSD costs over $700, Apple value is great here. And the 16GB upgrade is only marginally more expensive than buying it yourself ($200 vs $130), if you take into account that the RAM has to be soldered on-board.

 

[grrrz]

also using a proprietary connector for the drive where there is a mSata standard has just no engineering justification. it's just a dick move.
ram (8 Gb will be alright for sometime) is not so much a problem as storage. You ALWAYS need more storage.
256 Gb is already ridiculous by today standard. And I've always added storage and ram in every computer I owned, and got another few years out of it.

 

[iCole]

If you need more space, then use an external drive via TB. And it comes with enough ram, imo.

I never expect to be able to upgrade stuff on a laptop. Its not like you can fit a new cpu and gpu in any other laptop, in general. If I want upgrades and tweaking, I'll buy myself a desktop.

 

[Ccrew]

Devil's advocate here for a second!

But as a comparison point you'd have to add to the rMBP the pieces that you get for granted with the 15" MBP you've speced. Add a external superdrive, and an ethernet dongle and the delta becomes wider.

 

[corvus32]

I was wondering what is going to happen if the ram or the ssd fails and your warranty just expired?

Do you end up with $2200+ notebook that you can't use at all?

RAM or an SSD could fail in any computer just the same, so what would you rather do - spend a couple of hundred on parts to fix an old computer, or put that money towards a new machine.

By then, the 13" base model will have similar (or better) performance.

 

[bhtooefr]

I'm going to do it, because my ThinkPad is maxed out at well below the RMBP's spec (and I spent $1000 plus the screen that I already had on building the thing, last year), but I'm most likely not going to run OS X on it (other than to use it as a several gigabyte firmware updating utility that takes up space on the SSD, something that uses only a couple dozen kilobytes and is usually on a CD or a USB thumb drive over in the Wintel world), because now that I see the direction of that platform runs contrary to what I want.

Just hoping that other manufacturers copy Apple on the screen, and not on the construction, by the time it's time to upgrade.

 

[Tanax]

I already asked this before and I will ask it again. Why would you ever want to upgrade anything in that computer? Spec-wise, it is good to go for at least next 5 years, after which you are supposed to get a new machine anyway. I just don't get all this 'upgradeability' talk. What good does it do you to have an upgradable laptop if you need to trade 30% of weight and size for it? Mobility > upgradeability, and let's be honest, Apple offers very competitive bang per buck here.

If you want to have maxed out machine, just go for the 512GB MBP. Given that Samsung 830 512GB SSD costs over $700, Apple value is great here. And the 16GB upgrade is only marginally more expensive than buying it yourself ($200 vs $130), if you take into account that the RAM has to be soldered on-board.

It's not so much that you would want to upgrade for more specs. It's more the fact that parts grow old. They don't last forever. With that said though, you do have to consider that applications(and games if you're into that) use more and more hardware capacity. In 5 years, 8GB(or even 16GB) RAM might be WAY too little to use Adobe CS 9(or whatever). Maybe a bad example with RAM but you get my point.

Anyhow.
The RAM and the SSD -upgradability, or rather lack thereof, is not really my main concern.

My main concern is the battery. After 3 years of extensive use of a laptop, the battery is not what it used to be. Upgrading the battery would be really really nice. That doesn't appear to be possible on the new MBPr. And even if some company would release a battery compatible with it, it would still be a pain in the ass to change it since it's been glued on, and on top of that it's been glued on above the trackpad cable, making it difficult to remove the old battery without wrecking the cable.

 

[leenak]

Any failure on a computer is most likely going to occur within the first year, which is why we have a year warranty and in general, extended warranties are useless and a cash cow for companies like Best Buy and yes Apple. For nearly the last 10 years, My husband and I have had nothing but laptops and besides on 1 computer installing more RAM and another one replacing a failing HDD, I haven't opened up a laptop. SSDs are a bit more reliable than HDDs but that doesn't mean they can't fail and like most things, if they fail, it'll most likely be within the first year.

Then you consider that you are buying a $2k+ computer (I haven't had a $2K+ computer for nearly 20 years and believe me, my $2k+ computer back then was not top of the line). So you look at it and say you can buy an extended 3 year warranty or take your chances that it'll crap out in the first year if anything and be covered under warranty.

I haven't ordered Applecare but I will most likely do so because it is Retina and its new and even with a nice corporate discount, taxes brought the cost of my rMBP to nearly $3k. If I wanted to be more price conscious and cautious, I'd go ahead and buy a regular MBP and wait to see if any problems flush out.

Anyway, I have the money (won't even need to touch any savings) and I've been waiting for this computer for nearly a year. So why not?

 

[uaecasher]

guys anyone who doesn't like the rMBP or regret buying it, please cancel your order so people who actually want it get it

 

[leman]

It's not so much that you would want to upgrade for more specs. It's more the fact that parts grow old. They don't last forever. With that said though, you do have to consider that applications(and games if you're into that) use more and more hardware capacity. In 5 years, 8GB(or even 16GB) RAM might be WAY too little to use Adobe CS 9(or whatever). Maybe a bad example with RAM but you get my point.

Anyhow.
The RAM and the SSD -upgradability, or rather lack thereof, is not really my main concern.

My main concern is the battery. After 3 years of extensive use of a laptop, the battery is not what it used to be. Upgrading the battery would be really really nice. That doesn't appear to be possible on the new MBPr. And even if some company would release a battery compatible with it, it would still be a pain in the ass to change it since it's been glued on, and on top of that it's been glued on above the trackpad cable, making it difficult to remove the old battery without wrecking the cable.

Replacing the battery costs $200 at an Apple-certified service center, which is not the end of the world (servicing a car is more expensive). Linky: http://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro/service/battery/.

And BTW, the battery should be good to go for 5 years or so. The battery in my 2009 MBP is at around 90% original capacity after 30 month and 710 load cycles. I guess the new battery should be even slightly better.

 

[corvus32]

It should last a long time, but the ifixit teardown shows the battery to be glued to the case of the rMBP.

If it dies under warranty, you're more likely to receive new computer (than just a new battery) from Apple.

 

[iamthedudeman]

I have the same feelings as yourself. I ordered a 2012 RMBP and cancelled the order.

I like the new RMBP, but I have a 15 late 2011 with 16GB of ram and 256SSD. I am thinking about getting a 2012 model and taking my SSD from this model I currently have and putting it into the 2012 just for USB 3.0
. I know it's a sata 2 SSD but in real world use it shouldn't matter.

If I knew if it would fit I would get a 2012 reg MacBook Pro and install my sata 2 Apple toshiba SSD and call it a day. I like to be able to expand my laptop with my usage. I can do all of that for $1600 new out the door or spend $800 more for the same specs or slightly better and no option to upgrade.

 

[theSeb]

I have the same feelings as yourself. I ordered a 2012 RMBP and cancelled the order.

I like the new RMBP, but I have a 15 late 2011 with 16GB of ram and 256SSD. I am thinking about getting a 2012 model and taking my SSD from this model I currently have and putting it into the 2012 just for USB 3.0
. I know it's a sata 2 SSD but in real world use it shouldn't matter.

If I knew if it would fit I would get a 2012 reg MacBook Pro and install my sata 2 Apple toshiba SSD and call it a day. I like to be able to expand my laptop with my usage. I can do all of that for $1600 new out the door or spend $800 more for the same specs or slightly better and no option to upgrade.

I am curious. Why would you be thinking about an update to the 2012 classic MBP when you already have a fully loaded and upgraded late 2011 MBP? Maybe I don't get it, but I thought this whole "must be able to upgrade" thing was about future-proofing your computer? What features in the 2012 classic MBP make you want to replace anyway, despite upgrading your late 2011 MBP?

 

[bigjnyc]

I wont spend $250K on a ferrari when my current car takes me to the same places the ferrari would. I just wont do it, I cant do it! I can't justify it

 

[Donka]

I agree that this may be a sign of the direction Apple take (lack of upgrading) and if they do then pricing will dictate if I stay with them. Upgrade pricing via Apple at purchase time is excessive - why should I spend £120 more for the 8GB model when I can buy the 4GB model and buy 8GB RAM for £30 and even sell the supplied 4GB RAM making the saving even more than £90?
If they stop this user upgrade option then I would hope they would lower the pricing to offset this. Going by the iPhone pricing though, I seriously doubt this will happen. I tolerate this in an iPhone or iPad but won't in a laptop that I need to have the necessary resources for a fluctuating workload.

 

[theSeb]

I wont spend $250K on a ferrari when my current car takes me to the same places the ferrari would. I just wont do it, I cant do it! I can't justify it

Meh, I can't service it myself either. It's rubbish.

/sarcasm

 

[iamthedudeman]

I am curious. Why would you be thinking about an update to the 2012 classic MBP when you already have a fully loaded and upgraded late 2011 MBP? Maybe I don't get it, but I thought this whole "must be able to upgrade" thing was about future-proofing your computer? What features in the 2012 classic MBP make you want to replace anyway, despite upgrading your late 2011 MBP?

As I stated in my post, USB 3.0. Which would be a huge help in getting my work done when I travel, and I travel alot. I own and operate a marketing firm and am always waiting for files to load from one drive to the other over USB 2.0. Time is money. Not to mention not being late for meeting because I am waiting for a file to load.

That and the fact that I have some disposable income that i can use for my business. I can write off the expense. USB 3.0 would be a huge deal for me.

All the other specs would not be. My late 2011 MBP is plenty fast with 16GB ram and SSD. Until thunderbolt is more accessible and is made in small flash drives, usb 3.0 would be a huge step over usb 2.0.

 

[theSeb]

As I stated in my post, USB 3.0. Which would be a huge help in getting my work done when I travel, and I travel alot. I own and operate a marketing firm and am always waiting for files to load from one drive to the other over USB 2.0. Time is money. Not to mention not being late for meeting because I am waiting for a file to load.

That and the fact that I have some disposable income that i can use for my business. I can write off the expense. USB 3.0 would be a huge deal for me.

All the other specs would not be. My late 2011 MBP is plenty fast with 16GB ram and SSD. Until thunderbolt is more accessible and is made in small flash drives, usb 3.0 would be a huge step over usb 2.0.

Fair enough. I also buy my computers via my company. Writing off the tax is a no brainer and I get to enjoy a new computer every year.

 

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

I was wondering what is going to happen if the ram or the ssd fails and your warranty just expired?

Do you end up with $2200+ notebook that you can't use at all?

If the SSD fails you buy a replacement from a third party seller like OWC or have that particular board replaced by Apple (either way, there'll be a cost behind that due to SSD carrying a noteworthy cost, probably even three years from now). I think the AppleCare is probably a good idea for this laptop, on that note.

If the RAM fails and cannot be replaced (incredibly unlikely as it is soldered in unless a product flaw comes about or one is extremely unlucky) that could result in an expensive repair. Maybe someone more familiar with the Apple process can comment on whether they handle repairs like this under a flat rate? They replaced (accidentally, goobers) a logic board of my current MacBook Pro and the invoice was far less than I expected (though covered by AppleCare). In any case, any laptop is subject to the possibility of a repair like this, and the more expensive the laptop, the more relevant the costs associated become. Apple might come out ahead of they simply use a flat rate system.

I wont spend $250K on a ferrari when my current car takes me to the same places the ferrari would. I just wont do it, I cant do it! I can't justify it

If the laptop is just a fancy shiny laptop to you that's probably a good idea. To many people this product will be something more like a far more efficient means of getting from A to B, and that is meaningful. I won't buy a Ferrari but I will invest in a more efficient vehicle.

 

[jamesryanbell]

I agree with you 100%. I want that form factor AND upgradability. Can't do that? Don't release anything till you can.

Next thread.

(It's fun being harsh....just go with it)

 

[torana355]

That is why I ordered the $3799 model that I won't need to upgrade

Seriously though I do feel your pain. I think the main issue for people is the price for more SSD space. Trust me if you haven't used and SSD before it is worth it. They fly. I put one in my 17" 2010 MBP a few months ago and it has been a different computer- very very fast! I wait for no app now!

You are not wrong, my 2011 MBA makes our Mac Pros running regular hdd's at work feel painfully slow. Once you try an SSD its impossible to go back. Ive actully talked my boss into upgrading our Mac Pros to SSD's