But they've clearly indicated that the MBPR is the future, so the Mid-2012 MBP is probably the end of the line for upgradeable machines.
I can't do it -- Spend $2000+ on a laptop that can never be upgraded
- Thread starter panzer06
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
But they've clearly indicated that the MBPR is the future, so the Mid-2012 MBP is probably the end of the line for upgradeable machines.
panzer06
Contributor
I was never a big fan of the control portion of his persona. I understand the allure of creating a closed ecosystem, but I think restricting OS X to Apple hardware only is restrictive enough.
I certainly hope not. Cracking these babies open is difficult enough as it is.
Cheers,
MadTester
macrumors regular
I couldn't agree more with this statement.... in a couple of years if Apple decide to change the design(again) with sick updated mods, then I might consider 'investing'; but until then, I am VERY happy with what I have... even considering removing the OD from my uMBP and modding with an SSD.... but that's another adventure waiting to happen
Fishrrman
macrumors Nehalem
By next year this time, laptops with Retina displays will have dropped considerably in price, to not much more than it costs now for a Mac laptop with a non-Retina display. The technology is expensive right now, because it's brand-spankin'-new and almost certainly costs more to manufacture.
If you absolutely have-to-have the latest-and-greatest display, then you're choice is take a deep breath and realize that "the cost" of such technology TODAY is measured not only in $$$ but also in "lack of upgradeability".
It was the same way when the first MacBook Airs were introduced. Pretty much non-upgradeable, but the "cutting edge" folks bought them anyway. Today, they are still usable, but.... can't be upgraded. And that is "the price you pay".
Speaking strictly for myself, I'd just keep using "standard" display tech on lower-cost "regular" MacBook Pros until the cost comes down and the upgradeability factor goes up....
If you absolutely have-to-have the latest-and-greatest display, then you're choice is take a deep breath and realize that "the cost" of such technology TODAY is measured not only in $$$ but also in "lack of upgradeability".
It was the same way when the first MacBook Airs were introduced. Pretty much non-upgradeable, but the "cutting edge" folks bought them anyway. Today, they are still usable, but.... can't be upgraded. And that is "the price you pay".
Speaking strictly for myself, I'd just keep using "standard" display tech on lower-cost "regular" MacBook Pros until the cost comes down and the upgradeability factor goes up....
Last edited:
panzer06
Contributor
You may be right about costs dropping over time. However, I fear you're naive if you think we'll get upgradability back as display tech becomes more readily available. In looking here and elsewhere on MR and the Internet, it appears the trend is toward more closed systems and increased control of the user experience (at least from Apple).
This issue more than any other may give Android and Windows proponents a wedge to compete more effectively against the Apple iOS-ification juggernaut.
Cheers,
jpbl1976
macrumors newbie
They did for me. I put together a new system in February for my sister and the OCZ drive I got was 26% more expensive than the same drive I put into my system in September 2011.
panzer06
Contributor
Well they are much cheaper now. 512GB drives are less than $1 per GB now if you look carefully.
Cheers,
mykelala01
macrumors 6502
Yup I totally agreed except the upgradeability factor. I believe the future of Apple is that all computer are non-upgradable. You get what you buy... ala iphone and ipad. Look at there upcoming operating system. They are more towards to the cloud the unification of IOS and Mac OS. Make sense for Apple. so whenever you need an upgrade you either buy a new one every 3 years.
And early adopter is not always good for a Apple product. You are being the beta tester for a premium price. Look at the Macbook Air Rev A I have one of those I cant even watch Youtube for 30 min... that thing is hotter than a pan cake. Iphone first gen premium price no apps.
Not sure why they did for you. SSD prices have been plummeting. Just look at the prices for two of the most popular drives, Crucial M4 and Samsung 830, over the past 6 months and they have gone down a lot. Especially for the 128GB models.
Yeah I don't get it. People are mourning over something that hasn't happened yet.
Nothing from a month ago has been taken away, only another option has been added.
spacepower7
macrumors 68000
While I personally dislike the lack of upgradability of the new RMBP, the average Mac user could care less. Consider that the overwhelming majority of Mac owners don't belong to forums like this one and could care less about they things we collectively whine about here.
I'd speculate that 95% of computer owners never do a hardware upgrade, and even less for laptop owners.
In the "real" world I don't know a single person who has ever upgraded their Mac minus the ones I upgraded for them using my spare ( after my own upgrade ) parts or I installed a SSD for one guy who wanted to speed up his Windows VM.
Most people I know will keep using their Mac until it feels slow or can't do something they want it to do (rarely).
Many people who can afford to spend $2000+ on a Mac can usually afford to do it every 3-4 years if not sooner. That's the target market for these new non-upgradable Macs. Apple knows much more about about their customers than we do, and I'm sure as much thought went into that as the actual engineering of the RMBP.
The average Mac user is not going to spend time learning about tech specs and researching SSD benchmark scores, they'll just buy a new computer. They would prefer to spend their leisure time with family or doing something else in life that interests them more than computers.
As members of a computer forum, computers or Macs are a passion of OURS. For the average computer user, a computer is just a tool to accomplish a specific task, whether it be work or pleasure. If it's a tool that is used to earn money, it's easy to justify buying a new computer when it can help in increase productivity.
What I'm trying to say is that the non-upgradability of some current and possibly all future Macs only matters to the 2% or less of Mac users ie people who participate in a forum like this.
and yet the 512 is still $699 for the 830.... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...on=samsung 830 ssd&name=512GB&Order=BESTMATCH
panzer06
Contributor
Yes, but if you look that's the only one in that price range. The rest are in the low to mid $400s
You make some good points, many of which are probably true, however, I think your 2% estimate is a bit light and doesn't take into account educational institutions, businesses and all the friends and relatives of experienced Mac folks who have up fix or upgrade their older Apple tech.
Also, understanding this new reality and accepting it as a fait accompli are two different things. I understand Apple feels much more freedom to ignore their prior core constituency now that Apple products are more mainstream, however, dismissing completely the concerns of 2-5% of your most dedicated customers is somewhat shortsighted. Many may assume Apple's ascendence is a given and more permanent than fleeting but this is by no means certain. Apple's products are more than fads but to assume with absolute certainty Apple will continue to dominate for the next 10, 20 or 50 years is not the wisest course of action.
It is definitely possible to create something thin and beautiful while retaining the ability to upgrade. Apple management made a conscious decision to lock out all user upgrades in a deliberate move to establish complete control over all aspects of the vendor/customer relationship (and make more money while doing so).
If we idly sit back and accept this (without at least speaking out - or refusing to purchase) as it pertains to closed hardware, what happens when the OS environment becomes as restrictive as iOS even when applied to Apple computers. Closing hardware and dumbing down the OS (no file system or other restrictive changes) may fit the vast majority but there can and should be some choices for those of us who wish to upgrade over time or buy the entry level and upgrade at the initial sale.
I've been an Apple customer for a long time. I appreciate the awesome hardware and software environments they've created and use a Mac for most of my personal and work computing needs. I do want to buy another brand. I think there's room for a wide variety of computing needs and capabilities within the Apple ecosystem. I believe Apple can choose to be more open if they realize it's important to a significant (2% is significant if the whole is a big number) amount of customers.
I'm as skeptical as you as to the possibility but refuse to acquiesce just because the outcome seems assured.
Cheers,
Last edited:
Good point OP - it was a factor when i bought my mba last year.
However, i realised that for the 15 or so years I've been buying laptops I've never upgraded any of them. I've upgraded desktops but never laptops.
Once i realised that i was more comfortable with the fact you can't tinker with them.
Also, i find apple products do seem to hold their value quite well, here in the UK at least. A device might only loose 15%-20% of it's value in a year. Compared to Dell laptops I've used in the recent past which might loose half their value in a year and are harder to sell.
Along with quite static Apple pricing models it does make it quite easy to upgrade especially if you sell at the right time.
I look at it as an asset value v purchase and quite often the depreciation is minimal for an upgrade. For example i might loose £350 on a retina mbp. If i wanted to put a bigger SSD in and more RAM in i would have to sell the old component and buy and install a new component. It might cost me £250 for the components so for an extra £100 i get a years use plus i get a new machine which might have a better screen or more features anyway
However, i realised that for the 15 or so years I've been buying laptops I've never upgraded any of them. I've upgraded desktops but never laptops.
Once i realised that i was more comfortable with the fact you can't tinker with them.
Also, i find apple products do seem to hold their value quite well, here in the UK at least. A device might only loose 15%-20% of it's value in a year. Compared to Dell laptops I've used in the recent past which might loose half their value in a year and are harder to sell.
Along with quite static Apple pricing models it does make it quite easy to upgrade especially if you sell at the right time.
I look at it as an asset value v purchase and quite often the depreciation is minimal for an upgrade. For example i might loose £350 on a retina mbp. If i wanted to put a bigger SSD in and more RAM in i would have to sell the old component and buy and install a new component. It might cost me £250 for the components so for an extra £100 i get a years use plus i get a new machine which might have a better screen or more features anyway
I do think the upgradability factor sucks, no doubt about it, especially when there is far cheaper Ram and SSDs that outperform Apples. However on the same token the spec's are more than enough for the avg user, 8-16GB is way more than enough Ram for avg users. But none of that bothers me as much as the fact that after playing with the Retina 15 in the store, it just was not smooth and felt laggy among other weird quirks trying different settings which guess I'm not the only one thinking so after reading the complaints on here about it from people using it and owning them. The screen looks great, but maybe I fell for the hype as I was expecting it to blow me away but it wasn't as big a difference as I thought there'd be against my high-res 15, especially at normal viewing distances. For one thing it's still glossy as heck so I don't know what they were talking about being drastically reduced glare/reflections, not even comparable to the previous antiglare high res option.
I def wouldn't buy one right now and be the guinea pig putting up with it's quirks, I'm sure Apple will get it sorted in updates but still...Curious what will happen with the 13 if the rumors are true pointing to an similar upgrade in coming months.
I def wouldn't buy one right now and be the guinea pig putting up with it's quirks, I'm sure Apple will get it sorted in updates but still...Curious what will happen with the 13 if the rumors are true pointing to an similar upgrade in coming months.
The battery worries me more than the RAM of SSD. I do not typically use laptops so I am seriously asking: How long does a battery last before it degrades enough to need replacing, esp. on the unibody MBPs? And how much is Apple going to charge to replace the battery? Will they just replace the entire bottom case and battery since the battery is glued in? And if they charge a lot for this service then how will that affect resale values if somebody knows they will have this expense coming up in the future?
In my nearly 10+ years of having laptops (actually longer but 10 years of only using laptops), home, work, etc, I've never had to replace a battery. I think someone said that it costs about $200 to replace a battery through apple.
Covered for 3 years under the Applecare plan. After that, if you are a pro user, you'll probably move on to the newest model and new tech coming down the road.
Lagmonster
macrumors 6502
You need to re-think how you upgrade an Apple laptop now. You buy AppleCare, you sell it after 18 months, and you buy the latest. When you do the math, it isn't that bad considering how these things hold their value.
Battery replacement for the rMBP cost about $200 at Apple store.
Xian Zhu Xuande
macrumors 6502a
I'm not sure how much the upgradeability of the new MacBook and other various Macs really has to impact the product lifespan (at least as long as the people who will need 16 GB, which won't be many, get 16 GBs). The video capabilities are going to be the factor that ultimately causes problems for most people, potentially followed by the processor, and sacrifices in this area are the norm for the entire laptop market.
The odd ducks out include the iMac and Mac Mini. The iMac shares some laptop like limitations but that's not too uncommon to the all-in-one market and the Mac Mini is cheap enough that you can reasonably upgrade machines. The only offering missing is a cheaper box-like PC in the spirit of the Mac Pro though that'll probably never appear.