I can't do it -- Spend $2000+ on a laptop that can never be upgraded

[monkeybagel]

I think Apple did great with the RMBP. Sure its not upgradable, but lets face it fellas....this is the future of mobile computers. Did people bitch about the iPad and compare it to PCs/Laptops/Netbooks? Yep, some did...but look what happened....the Netbook disappeared. And everyone followed...

This is not the future of mobile computers. It's probably the future for mobile computers for Apple unfortunately. Have you looked at their market share lately? I am sure that Lenovo, HP, ASUS, and yes Dell will fill the void.

Windows 7 is a great OS. Not sure about 8, but 7 is great and if I have to purchase a machine elsewhere for my job, that is what I will do.

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If you can't afford a BMW over the long haul, consider the Volkswagon [sic]. Both do the same job, but with different consumer expectation.

More like a BMW with a sealed hood, or a Volkswagen that is serviceable.

 

[pumanger]

I am writing this message with a late 2008 15,4" MBP. This is a good example of a computer which was bought to use for few years and I did not plan to upgrade anything. I bought it new in spring 2009.

I guess the laptop came with 2GB of RAM and 250GB HDD. Plenty of both at the time. Or maybe it came with 4GB, don't remember. Anyway, later the RAM was updated to 4GB and HDD to a faster 500GB.

Year or so later, it was discovered that late 2008 MBP is able to use 8GB. After waiting the prices to drop - I bought 8GB of RAM. I also removed the optibay and installed a 128GB SSD + 500GB combination.

Even if had no need or intention to upgrade anything when I bought the computer, all of these upgrades were ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. During these years the digital file sizes (for example digital camera RAW files) have grown hugely. Normal raw file size has grown since 2009 from about 8Mb to current 40Mb.

These upgrades have costed me about 500€ within almost 4 years. I have done all I can. Next step is replacing the computer, because I need more processing power.

I too can't stand the idea if non-upgradeable 2000 USD computer. Actually, lets make it non-upgradeable 3220 USD compouter -- that is what the base model retina with 16GB costs here in Europe. And with this great price, I need to start to rely on external storage when working on field (at the moment I don't have to), because with this price I only get 256GB of storage.

 

[dank414]

I already asked this before and I will ask it again. Why would you ever want to upgrade anything in that computer? Spec-wise, it is good to go for at least next 5 years, after which you are supposed to get a new machine anyway. I just don't get all this 'upgradeability' talk. What good does it do you to have an upgradable laptop if you need to trade 30% of weight and size for it? Mobility > upgradeability, and let's be honest, Apple offers very competitive bang per buck here.

If you want to have maxed out machine, just go for the 512GB MBP. Given that Samsung 830 512GB SSD costs over $700, Apple value is great here. And the 16GB upgrade is only marginally more expensive than buying it yourself ($200 vs $130), if you take into account that the RAM has to be soldered on-board.

512GB SSD Crucial M4 is about $400. 16gb Ram for mac about $100. Let's not try to pretend how much more they're charging shall we? I think the upgradable part factors to customers when they can choose to purchase the entry level and decides to upgrade at their leisure and when they need it.

 

[LeandrodaFL]

1)Thats a Machine you will never need to upgrade.

2)You can sell and buy newer mac, thats the best upgrade

3)You worried it costs $2000? It costs US$5000 in my country

 

[Jiten]

512GB SSD Crucial M4 is about $400. 16gb Ram for mac about $100. Let's not try to pretend how much more they're charging shall we? I think the upgradable part factors to customers when they can choose to purchase the entry level and decides to upgrade at their leisure and when they need it.

Not to mention you can also sell the stock RAM and Hard drive which lowers the upgrade cost a bit more.

 

[nfl46]

Not worth it, IMO. I'll wait until the 13" retina or rev 2 when the prices drop. Spending $2000+ on a computer, I want the ability to upgrade it in the future if I like.

 

[Poochi]

I am writing this message with a late 2008 15,4" MBP. This is a good example of a computer which was bought to use for few years and I did not plan to upgrade anything. I bought it new in spring 2009.

I guess the laptop came with 2GB of RAM and 250GB HDD. Plenty of both at the time. Or maybe it came with 4GB, don't remember. Anyway, later the RAM was updated to 4GB and HDD to a faster 500GB.

Year or so later, it was discovered that late 2008 MBP is able to use 8GB. After waiting the prices to drop - I bought 8GB of RAM. I also removed the optibay and installed a 128GB SSD + 500GB combination.

Even if had no need or intention to upgrade anything when I bought the computer, all of these upgrades were ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. During these years the digital file sizes (for example digital camera RAW files) have grown hugely. Normal raw file size has grown since 2009 from about 8Mb to current 40Mb.

These upgrades have costed me about 500€ within almost 4 years. I have done all I can. Next step is replacing the computer, because I need more processing power.

I too can't stand the idea if non-upgradeable 2000 USD computer. Actually, lets make it non-upgradeable 3220 USD compouter -- that is what the base model retina with 16GB costs here in Europe. And with this great price, I need to start to rely on external storage when working on field (at the moment I don't have to), because with this price I only get 256GB of storage.

I remember for over 20 years until recently, PC were costing $1200 to $2000 for an okay gaming machine. Laptops, pre-Intel-Mac, were costing on average of $2000 (Dell, Asus included), and they were plastic with mediocre at best low-contract screens (despite specs look nice on paper...)

And look what $2000 can buy today? Amazing machine. Computer price did not keep up with inflation, it fell drastically. People are getting too spoiled nowadays, want more for nothing Don't we all?

 

[pumanger]

I remember for over 20 years until recently, PC were costing $1200 to $2000 for an okay gaming machine. Laptops, pre-Intel-Mac, were costing on average of $2000 (Dell, Asus included), and they were plastic with mediocre at best low-contract screens (despite specs look nice on paper...)

And look what $2000 can buy today? Amazing machine. Computer price did not keep up with inflation, it fell drastically. People are getting too spoiled nowadays, want more for nothing Don't we all?

Well, I would buy a new MBP 15" if it would cost $2000 here in Europe, but it costs 2549€ = $3200 with memory upgrade

--

By the way, my Late 2008 MBP 15,4" was bought new 11.6.2009 with the normal price of 1399 €

 

[aristobrat]

8GB is plenty today. The point we're trying to make is that it may not be plenty 2 years from now

In two years, if 8GB of RAM isn't enough for a Mac to run well, then literally every stock Mac that Apple has sold since (whenever in the future they decide to make 8GB of RAM stock) will require a RAM upgrade.

 

[Philly]

A lot of people missed the point here. Yes, it is necessary to sacrifice certain things when trying to cram such a powerful machine in to such a small laptop. And that is the point, things are being sacrificed. The normal Macbook Pro was compact enough as it was! What the hell do people want...?

As a professional video tech I have always been so pleased with my 15" Mac laptops. But the retina version sacrifices too much, and the danger here is that if enough people buy it, the standard (upgradable) model will simply disappear.

 

[aristobrat]

the danger here is that if enough people buy it, the standard (upgradable) model will simply disappear.

I think that's a certainty, not a danger. As soon as the price/capacities of SSDs make them ubiquitous, you can pretty much bet that the "upgradable" MBP design will disappear.

 

[hasek3139]

I do agree that non upgradeable is a bit of an inconvenience , but these specs look like they have been made to last quite some time! I bought my 1st MBP in 2008 with 4GB RAM and 500GB HDD , and have never needed to upgrade anything. Now 5 years later IM buying the new retina MBP. I purchased the $2,799 version with a student discount which lowered it to 2,599, and upgraded to the 16GB RAM for $180 with the student discount which is $20 less then regular upgrade price, and I plan on selling the $100 iTunes gift card for $85, and selling my late 2008 MBP on ebay which are going from $500-700.
So I went from $2,999 to $2,694, and after I sell my current one i could end up spending a total of $1994 -$2149.

So if its to much for some of you just use the student discount and sell your old machine, if you stick with the stock 8GB you could save a little more $$ to.

 

[intelgrande]

Whenever I buy a new computer, I always buy the latest and greatest, maxing out all specs. In the last fifteen years or so, I've found this to always be sufficient for my needs for several years until the computer expires. Whenever it's time for an upgrade, everything needs upgrading. We've gotten to the point where adding ram or a larger hard drive just isn't necessary unless you skimped when you initially bought the machine, or you go through storage like nobody's business.

I don't see how 99% of the population is going to have to go above 16 gigs of RAM at any point in the foreseeable future. I'm still using 4 gigs across all my machines without problem, and that's with video editing, photoshop, music production, etc. You're always going to have those who really overload their machines, but if you're seriously having issues with 16 gigs of ram, I don't know why you're using a laptop for your work.

 

[Philly]

I find it odd that some people seem to think the specs should only need to cover three or four years, and that the computer is only built to last that long.

Thats ridiculous.

One of the main reasons I chose mac was because of the build quality and as I have mentioned before, I'm writing to you from a seven year old G4 Powerbook which is my main laptop. I can still use CS4 and Final Cut Pro 7. My speakers are a lot louder than my friends newer models. The backlit keyboard still works.

...my point being that Macs for me have always been about quality. I do not want to live in a throw away society. Are you aware of how un-recyclable the retina display Macbook Pro is....?


It's a beautiful piece of engineering but I hope it's not the direct future.

 

[leenak]

I find it odd that some people seem to think the specs should only need to cover three or four years, and that the computer is only built to last that long.

Thats ridiculous.

One of the main reasons I chose mac was because of the build quality and as I have mentioned before, I'm writing to you from a seven year old G4 Powerbook which is my main laptop. I can still use CS4 and Final Cut Pro 7. My speakers are a lot louder than my friends newer models. The backlit keyboard still works.

...my point being that Macs for me have always been about quality. I do not want to live in a throw away society. Are you aware of how un-recyclable the retina display Macbook Pro is....?


It's a beautiful piece of engineering but I hope it's not the direct future.

The majority of users as it is don't touch the innards of their laptops ever. So its not surprising that this is the direction. The options of what to do with it after 3 to 4 years? pass it on either by giving to someone or selling.

 

[fizzwinkus]

Exactly how unrecyclable is the mbpr? Glass screen, aluminum chassis, bfr boards...

 

[Meever]

Very few laptops are really upgrade friendly though. Besides ram and hdd what do they let you upgrade?

There's always externals and 8gb is more than enough for most users (and 16 is definitely overkill except for the handful of power users)

First thing to go obsolete is gpu followed by CPU and very few laptops let users upgrade those components.

Just my 2 cent.

 

[macbook123]

What's the consensus on the likelihood of future upgradeability of the SSD and RAM?

People here should keep in mind that not everybody can afford $3k on a new laptop, but some may be able to afford $2k now, and be able to upgrade it in a year or to. So simply recommending that people upgrade when they purchase originally is not realistic for many.

 

[panzer06]

What's the consensus on the likelihood of future upgradeability of the SSD and RAM?

People here should keep in mind that not everybody can afford $3k on a new laptop, but some may be able to afford $2k now, and be able to upgrade it in a year or to. So simply recommending that people upgrade when they purchase originally is not realistic for many.

You are making the point so many are concerned about.

RAM no (soldered onto MB) but disk is connected via a proprietary connector so perhaps OWC will offer one later.

I'm definitely leaning toward staying with the Classic MBP perhaps with the hires upgrade because I already have a 256GB SSD and 16GB ram kits.

Cheers,

 

[macbook123]

RAM no (soldered onto MB) but disk is connected via a proprietary connector so perhaps OWC will offer one later.

Interesting, yeah I had read about this OWC plan. Would OWC sell their own drives with the connector (and if so, are their drives comparable in quality to the drives that come with the RMBP?), or would one be able to use the connector with any SSD's of ones choice?

 

[Trinity]

+1, after the release of the new MBP I have ordered more RAM, another battery and an SSD drive for my late 2008 MBP 17" pre-unibody for 10 reasons, 10 things I have (and use) in my old demodé laptop that are not in the new ones:

- CD/DVD drive.
- Replaceable battery.
- Upgradeable RAM
- Sound input jack.
- Firewire 400.
- Firewire 800.
- Ethernet.
- Expansion slot.
- DVI port.
- 17" display.

Someone will say I can carry a bag full of dongles an external peripherals but I prefer to carry a laptop 2 milimeters thicker and 300gr heavier.
As I said in my feedback to Apple I think the lemma "less is more" can be good for MBA or MB but not for the MBP line. In next generation they will probably throw away USB (obsoleted) audio out (you have to have an iPod or iPhone for that) and the enlightened Apple, but they will have to remove the "Pro" in the name also…

 

[aristobrat]

One of the main reasons I chose mac was because of the build quality and as I have mentioned before, I'm writing to you from a seven year old G4 Powerbook which is my main laptop. I can still use CS4 and Final Cut Pro 7. My speakers are a lot louder than my friends newer models. The backlit keyboard still works.

...my point being that Macs for me have always been about quality. I do not want to live in a throw away society.

Unlike your old G4 Powerbook, the r-MBP comes stock with 2x the amount of RAM as the other stock notebooks that Apple's currently selling, and it's relatively inexpensive to configure it to have double that (or 4x the amount of RAM as the other stock notebooks that Apple's currently selling).

And I don't know if you've ever tried to upgrade a HDD in the Powerbooks/pre-Unibody MBPs, but the process is at least 20x harder than it is to upgrade the SSD in the r-MBP/Air.

A r-MBP, 6 years from now, will have no problems running CS6 or Final Cut X. No difference between that and your G4 Powerbook.

 

[panzer06]

Interesting, yeah I had read about this OWC plan. Would OWC sell their own drives with the connector (and if so, are their drives comparable in quality to the drives that come with the RMBP?), or would one be able to use the connector with any SSD's of ones choice?

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/15052676/

It'll looks like this and no one besides apple and owc are creating them fit the MBA so we assume that will be the case here as well.

Cheers,

 

[aristobrat]

FWIW, RunCore also appears to be making them for the Air.

Runcore adds another SSD upgrade option to MacBook Air owners

 

[DVD9]

I remember for over 20 years until recently, PC were costing $1200 to $2000 for an okay gaming machine. Laptops, pre-Intel-Mac, were costing on average of $2000 (Dell, Asus included), and they were plastic with mediocre at best low-contract screens (despite specs look nice on paper...)

And look what $2000 can buy today? Amazing machine. Computer price did not keep up with inflation, it fell drastically. People are getting too spoiled nowadays, want more for nothing Don't we all?

I remember when a 50" plasma cost over $4,000 just 5yrs ago. Now you can get the best picture quality ever from Panasonic in a huge 65" model delivered for $1,800.

Apple's profit margin is reportedly above 40% so that would be about nine hundred dollars in profit for every $2,199 Retina.