I have to buy a Windows Machine...NOOOOO...Opinions wanted. : )

[wrinkster22]

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Agh! Poor you
I really like Lenovo
HP looks pretty nice
Some sansungs look good IMO

 

[Consultant]

When you boot into bootcamp your Mac = Windows PC.

Your instructor doesn't know how bootcamp works.

 

[swiftaw]

As others have said, a Mac running Windows via bootcamp is no different to a Dell or a Lenovo running Windows. A Mac is just a PC that ships with a non-Windows OS. Use bootcamp to install Windows, and now it's just like every other PC.

 

[wlh99]

Boot camp IS an option. Otherwise the world makes no sense. A Mac is, after all, just a PC. Using virtual machines might be a issue in some specialized situations (such as not being able to run bridged networking over wifi) but when you're running Windows directly on the iron you shouldn't have a problem.

If your instructor says otherwise, have him explain why. Then ask one of the other instructors if he is correct. Then post the explanation here. I would love to hear it.

I have an answer, maybe not the same answer as the instructor, but a good valid answer.

You will be installing and configuring several operating systems several times. This includes partitioning them and maybe changing BIOS settings. While you can install and run Windows under bootcamp, that process is very different than on a PC, so you are unable to learn how to do those things on a PC.

I don't know the syllabus of your class, but I know some classes do teach those things.

 

[d0ster]

I am almost 100% certain I'll get torn to shreds for this, but......

Boot Camp is NOT the same as a Windows PC. Why? I don't have an answer, really. All I know is that Windows 7 in Boot Camp tends to be "finicky" (for lack of a better word), where as on my two Dells and my HP desktop it works great. I've noticed strange issues PARTICULARLY with networking, which is exactly what the OP is needing Windows for.

Should BC be exactly the same? YES.

(In my personal experience as a tech guy) Is it? NO.

The only conclusion I can come to is that it must be something with either the EFI (instead of a traditional PC BIOS) or, more likely, something quirky with one or more of Apple's drivers.

Flame me if you want to, but if I were the OP and I was DEPENDING on Windows to get my degree, I, too, would buy a Windows machine.

@ the OP: I tend to go for either HP or Dell (Latitudes ONLY). But I really like the Dell XPS 14z, too, if there's enough horsepower there for you.

EDIT: wpotere, which MBP did you use? I've tended to notice that the Core 2 models tended to work better with Boot Camp using XP than the newer Core i-series using 7... again, just my experience.

I agree with js81. I understand BC makes the Mac a Windows machine but there are ignorant PC people put there. it's just less of a headache IF you happen to run into any issues. And I am pretty sure that IF you do have any issues, your instructor will say it's because youre not using a "native" Windows machine.

 

[js81]

When you boot into bootcamp your Mac = Windows PC.

As others have said, a Mac running Windows via bootcamp is no different to a Dell or a Lenovo running Windows. A Mac is just a PC that ships with a non-Windows OS. Use bootcamp to install Windows, and now it's just like every other PC.

^^ These are not totally true. While Windows RUNS natively, just like on any other PC, the install process and the way the computer handles the startup process is very different. This SHOULDN'T matter, though, but it seems to at times...

While you can install and run Windows under bootcamp, that process is very different than on a PC

^^ This is what I'm getting at exactly. While extremely similar, a Mac running Windows under Boot Camp is NOT exactly the same as a Windows PC - if for no other reason, the startup processes of EFI vs. BIOS are handled very differently.

 

[idiiamots]

Sup3rknova, you ought to go back to your instructors and press them for specific reasons why a virtualization solution or BootCamp is not sufficient for your courses.

I did a full Computer Science degree a few years back and none of the mandatory curriculum involved anything that couldn't be written in Java on any platform. I worked at major software company doing C# development for 3 years using Parallels on a macbook. That wasn't my main workstation, but on the road it could run all of the tools needed for writing code.

At the same company we gradually shifted from using physical machines as our test bed to hyper-V virtualization.

The only things I could possibly see as being an issue is either your courses will cover virtualization (which would be weird to host VM inside VM), or if there's some kind of legal mambo jumbo in the EULAs of software used for coursework which explicitly prohibits use inside a VM.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Dells are very nice and high quality. I don't know what kind of deals are out there, but I suggest Dell.

Dear god do NOT get a Dell. I've owned 3, and I have family members who've consumed plenty as well. These days their consumer laptops are of terrible quality.

 

[sigamy]

my 11 year old son just got an HP g4t for Christmas, like the link above.

I hated to have a Windows machine in my house, but I couldn't afford to get him a Mac laptop. He is using it to make youtube videos of his Xbox gameplay so he needed a modern machine with good processor.

It has Core i3, 4gb, card reader, HDMI and dvd burner all for under $500, as I had some online deals.

I've only used the laptop a bit, but it is nice. Build seems fine, size and weight is good. You can get a huge (heavy) 16" Windows laptop for under $400 easily. I wanted to get him something a bit more portable so went for this 14" HP.

 

[LAS.mac]

The Bootcamp suggestion from here too!

 

[roebeet]

I'm mainly a non-Mac guy - most of my systems are built for Windows or Linux and I am in no way a "Mac head". I'm only on this forum right now because I'm an iTunes Match subscriber and noticed this post.

But if it were me, I would not buy a Windows PC because some clueless professor told me to. It's a waste of money AND your time if that's the only reason for buyng it. The latter meaning that you now have a completely different system that you need to lug around and deal with outside of whatever Mac system you currently have.

I would tackle this as follows: Don't even talk to the professor about Macs, just ask for the PC requirements. He'll likely give you something like "Windows 7 Home Premium of better, an Intel Dual Core with 4GB RAM or better etc etc). Then, see if that matches up with what you have right now with your Mac. If it does, then the only thing missing is Windows 7 and Bootcamp will fix that. So, in other words, you've met the requirements. And if you have to bring the device into class with and aren't the confrontational type, maybe cover the laptop with a soft case just to avoid funny stares from the professor. And it it's a remote class, then you should be fine.

The only problem i see is if there's a dongle or other hardware component to the class where Bootcamp might be problematic. But if there were I bet there would be specific PC hardware requirements anyway.

 

[roebeet]

Additional: If you absolutely are set in stone to buy a Windows laptop, I wouldn't recommend DELL or HP. I do local tech support in my neighborhood and I've seen more than my share of issues with laptops from both. I would buy the most inexpensive laptop you can, but with a good support plan. Remember, HP / DELL don't work like Apple when it comes to support, so if the thing doesn't boot up one day you don't want to have to spend hours on the phone with an L1 rep in India trying to explain your problems.

Again, this is coming from someone who is mainly coming from a Windows PC / laptop background. DELL used to be pretty good, but in the last 5-6 years there has been a change, and not for the better. And HP still isn't sure if it wants to even be in the PC business, so keep that in mind. My son actually needed a laptop and price / gaming requirements prohibited a MacBook. I ended up getting him an ASUS G53S because it fit his requirements, his price point, and also has a 2 year accidental breakage warranty. I was a little concerned about quality control issues but so far so good on that. But this laptop probably wouldn't fit your particular needs.

Another good resource is newegg.com - they not only have regular sales going on, but a lot of user feedback (good and bad). This is where I ended up buying the ASUS laptop, btw.

 

[thekev]

I have an answer, maybe not the same answer as the instructor, but a good valid answer.

You will be installing and configuring several operating systems several times. This includes partitioning them and maybe changing BIOS settings. While you can install and run Windows under bootcamp, that process is very different than on a PC, so you are unable to learn how to do those things on a PC.

I don't know the syllabus of your class, but I know some classes do teach those things.

It's not like they're going to hack the BIOS of a computer brought to class. The basic settings available aren't that complex or difficult to understand. I think you may be giving that professor too much credit. They make some weird claims at times. My guess is that he doesn't wish to deal with any Mac related bugs. I'd suggest a second drive in the opti bay to bypass the need for boot camp partitioning, but those haven't been completely problem free .

The only problem i see is if there's a dongle or other hardware component to the class where Bootcamp might be problematic. But if there were I bet there would be specific PC hardware requirements anyway.

Some college professors can be such jackasses. If by some remote chance there is a weird problem, the OP could just straight up install Windows without the bootcamp partitioning. Dongles are more of a Mac thing anyway . I just don't think it's worth replacing a computer because a professor told the OP to do so. The only way I could see buying a second computer is if the hardware on the OP's computer just was not fully supported under whatever software must be run. Say he was working with CAD and a macbook air where the integrated graphics had some crippling bugs. That might be an issue (most of those software companies don't bother testing with integrated graphics). Basically if the hardware supports it, you can make it work.

 

[dakwar]

Dude, whatever you do make sure to get a light laptop. I'd suggest staying away from 15" or larger altogether.

 

[Old Muley]

I was told by one of my instructers that using parrells (etc.) on my mac would not be sufficient for my courses. I need a full fledged windows machine.

1. Buy as cheap a PC you can find from a vendor with a good return policy;
2. Keep it in the box, unopened;
3. Do all your work on your Mac using Bootcamp or Parallels;
4. If Bootcamp/parallels don't work, then crack open the PC;
5. If you were able to do all your work on the Mac, return the unopened PC;
6. If you had to use the PC for some of your work, ask the professor for a prorated refund on the time you were actually able to use your Mac.
7. If you had to use the PC for all of your work, then be thankful that you didn't spend a ton on one.


Alternately I'd purchase the ugliest PC I could find, like the Toshiba Qosmio or the Getac V100.

 

[mobilehaathi]

6. If you had to use the PC for some of your work, ask the professor for a prorated refund on the time you were actually able to use your Mac.

Utterly ridiculous.

 

[ericrwalker]

Seriously, use boot camp. What are you going to be using on your machines that your mac hardware can't handle?

I am a windows user (will be changing over this year and retiring my hackintosh), but your professor is an Apple hater.

 

[jahala]

Dear god do NOT get a Dell. I've owned 3, and I have family members who've consumed plenty as well. These days their consumer laptops are of terrible quality.

I agree that their consumer laptops are terrible. As mentioned by another poster previously, though, their business laptops are fantastic. I can fully recommend a Dell latitude. My favorite PC laptops are the Thinkpad T series.

 

[roebeet]

Seriously, use boot camp. What are you going to be using on your machines that your mac hardware can't handle?

I am a windows user (will be changing over this year and retiring my hackintosh), but your professor is an Apple hater.

Either that or the Professor is just plain ignorant.

Again, if it were me -- I'd do Bootcamp and not even tell the Professor. Then go through the whole semester and, assuming I did all the work proficiently and had zero computer access issues, tell him/her that I used Apple hardware the whole time right on the last day. The professor might just be spouting requirements that were given to him by IT, and IT just didn't take Bootcamp or Parallels into consideration because they were just being lazy.

I'm long out of college but even technical training classes have strict system rules that are easily bypassed. For example, I sometimes get remote training from Learning Tree and they specify a Windows system with specific hardware to run the remote software. Not only would Bootcamp work fine in this situation, but I actually got the software to run under Virtualbox (as I had an Ubuntu system at the time) - this included getting my USB headset to work. It wasn't easy but my point is that just because someone says it's not supported doesn't mean it won't work.

 

[mobilehaathi]

I agree that their consumer laptops are terrible. As mentioned by another poster previously, though, their business laptops are fantastic. I can fully recommend a Dell latitude. My favorite PC laptops are the Thinkpad T series.

I defer to you on the business laptops, as I've had no direct experience with them. I'll note that I have some Dell workstations at work which seem to be of decent quality.

 

[ericrwalker]

Exactly. The professor doesn't know anything about it. He assumes the VM is a watered down version or something.

When you use bootcamp it IS A FULL FLEDGED WINDOWS MACHINE at that point.

He should have asked him what is a windows machines....to me it's computer hardware running Windows OS, sounds he he needs to find out the specs of the software he's going to be running and see if that software will work. I am going to assume he's not taking a "gaming class" and needs to run Skyrim at 90fps.

Either that or the Professor is just plain ignorant.

Again, if it were me -- I'd do Bootcamp and not even tell the Professor. Then go through the whole semester and, assuming I did all the work proficiently and had zero computer access issues, tell him/her that I used Apple hardware the whole time right on the last day. The professor might just be spouting requirements that were given to him by IT, and IT just didn't take Bootcamp or Parallels into consideration because they were just being lazy.

I'm long out of college but even technical training classes have strict system rules that are easily bypassed. For example, I sometimes get remote training from Learning Tree and they specify a Windows system with specific hardware to run the remote software. Not only would Bootcamp work fine in this situation, but I actually got the software to run under Virtualbox (as I had an Ubuntu system at the time) - this included getting my USB headset to work. It wasn't easy but my point is that just because someone says it's not supported doesn't mean it won't work.

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Yes, 90% of the dells I see people buy I wouldn't buy. My last two dells were a XPS m1210(5 years old) and a XPM m1330 (3 years old) and of course I bumped up the specs way above the base model. Great laptops and they cost about 3 to 5 times more than what everyone else buys at dell. My wife still uses the m1210 and I still use the m1330 everyday.

I agree that their consumer laptops are terrible. As mentioned by another poster previously, though, their business laptops are fantastic. I can fully recommend a Dell latitude. My favorite PC laptops are the Thinkpad T series.

 

[roebeet]

I defer to you on the business laptops, as I've had no direct experience with them. I'll note that I have some Dell workstations at work which seem to be of decent quality.

I actually have a work laptop, which is a Latitude E6410. It's a decent system, but obviously it's built with businesses in mind. One thing I like about it is that the line-in is fairly clean for a laptop (I use it for vinyl needle drops).

I also have a DELL netbook that requires a new internal power adapter now (in flight as I write this), and two DELL desktops that both lost their crapola OEM HDD's just after their one warranty was up. So I don't particularly like their consumer products. Plus I've had several DELL laptops that I've fixed (or attempted to fix) for local friends neighbors and others.

 

[ssussman]

Geez what's the big deal... Windows PCs are really great these days and they are available in numerous shapes, styles, makes, and models. Becoming proficient with Windows 7 (and later) will be a career asset regardless of all this BS about which is better Apple or Microsoft.

It may be popular (especially round these parts) to Microsoft-bash but the fact is Windows 7 is very reliable and has been well-reviewed for good reason, and if you've been given a reason to need one and learn about it, jump at it. Life is short.

As for which; go to stores, play around with a few until you decide on one you like, then go home, go online, and find the best deal for it.

P.S. I've got an iPad, an iPhone, and a nano, and I've always had some iDevice around. But I wouldn't trade my Dell (which is a desktop) for today's Macs and that's just the way it is.

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By the way as another "tech guy"... I worked for a software company that was a big Apple partner, and thus we were all given (plastic, black) MacBooks. I put Vista on mine and around the geek watercooler we all agreed that the MacBook was a better Vista machine than most actual intended-as-Vista machines. Now that was Vista, and it was an old MacBook.

I have no experience with Windows 7 on Apple hardware unfortunately but certainly 7 has been an improvement over Vista (massively) on every piece of hardware on which we did do upgrades, so one would think today's Macs would be good Windows 7 systems.

But it's also true that Apple has no particular motivation to make Windows work (see iTunes for Windows) so, the anecdotal evidence presented here is worth listening to, whatever voodoo theories there may be about WHY that would be.

 

[ditzy]

Geez what's the big deal... Windows PCs are really great these days and they are available in numerous shapes, styles, makes, and models. Becoming proficient with Windows 7 (and later) will be a career asset regardless of all this BS about which is better Apple or Microsoft.

It may be popular (especially round these parts) to Microsoft-bash but the fact is Windows 7 is very reliable and has been well-reviewed for good reason, and if you've been given a reason to need one and learn about it, jump at it. Life is short.

As for which; go to stores, play around with a few until you decide on one you like, then go home, go online, and find the best deal for it.

P.S. I've got an iPad, an iPhone, and a nano, and I've always had some iDevice around. But I wouldn't trade my Dell (which is a desktop) for today's Macs and that's just the way it is.

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By the way as another "tech guy"... I worked for a software company that was a big Apple partner, and thus we were all given (plastic, black) MacBooks. I put Vista on mine and around the geek watercooler we all agreed that the MacBook was a better Vista machine than most actual intended-as-Vista machines. Now that was Vista, and it was an old MacBook.

I have no experience with Windows 7 on Apple hardware unfortunately but certainly 7 has been an improvement over Vista (massively) on every piece of hardware on which we did do upgrades, so one would think today's Macs would be good Windows 7 systems.

But it's also true that Apple has no particular motivation to make Windows work (see iTunes for Windows) so, the anecdotal evidence presented here is worth listening to, whatever voodoo theories there may be about WHY that would be.

As far as I can see no one criticised windows in this thread. They criticised the professor who insisted the OP got a windows PC when putting windows 7 on his mac with bootcamp would be just as effective.

 

[Sup3rknova]

Ok I seriously got info overload! LOL I do thank each and every comment. I will get my syllabus before I need to buy one but i will email the instructors before then anyway. I am going to ask if they are familiar with bootcamp and what material we will be covering that would not allow me to do my work. Again I appreciate all comments and I will post an update after the weekend since I assume I won't hear from them until after the weekend.