I have to buy a Windows Machine...NOOOOO...Opinions wanted. : )

[chrono1081]

Funny I've done all that stuff on a Mac....

Although generally most professors are smart, some blow hot air. One tried to tell me once that a Mac can get a Windows virus since Macs use intel chips now. (Funny I didn't realize they could execute Windows executable files too )

 

[jeremyshaw]

Ok I seriously got info overload! LOL I do thank each and every comment. I will get my syllabus before I need to buy one but i will email the instructors before then anyway. I am going to ask if they are familiar with bootcamp and what material we will be covering that would not allow me to do my work. Again I appreciate all comments and I will post an update after the weekend since I assume I won't hear from them until after the weekend.

Only thing I can think of why, is Bootcamp is layered ontop of EFI (dunno if Apple uses UEFI - basically EFI 2.0), via a BIOS emulation layer. Even if it does use Windows 7 x64 (only 64bit, too) native UEFI installer, there are known driver issues with UEFI installations of Windows 7.

 

[Angelo95210]

I would go for a Lenovo Thinkpad (ie X220) with Windows Seven it rocks.

 

[Dr McKay]

Id just go with Bootcamp, that way you have a "Personal Computer" running Windows natively. VMware really won't do, when I did my server course, we would have several machines running in Virtual PC on the same computer, when we made changes to the Server Policies or accounts on the server VM, changes would often take up to half an hour to affect the Users on the other VMs.

I don't think your instructor knows about Bootcamp, go for Windows 7

 

[malman89]

And HP still isn't sure if it wants to even be in the PC business, so keep that in mind.

The "non-Mac head aka Windows Guy" doesn't even know that HP has publicly backtracked from this stance and is sticking with its consumer PC business (and you could say, "but oh they might change their minds again"... just like any other company on any issue ever).

Bootcamp should work. If not, look at any of the major players (HP, Dell, Lenovo, Sony) and see what works best for you price + spec wise and do your research - customer reviews, electronic site reviews, whatever you can find. That will help you avoid as many issues as you can, but everyone has a different experience and every company (including Apple) pushes out the occasional lemon these days and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[chrismacguy]

I'd get a cheap used DELL Latitude. Im currently midway through my degree in Computer Science and Maths (Dual Major). Whats the machine I use when I can't get whatever it is done on a Mac? : A used DELL Latitude D630 I picked up for the UK equivalent of $180, with a 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM and Windows 7 Pro (It also has a very nice 1440*900 display, which gives plenty of room for doing stuff). They have plenty of power for anything you'll need to do on Windows for your course (anything from running Visual Studio 2010 to messing with Windows' Network Settings and Drivers) and are relatively well specced for the price. Their also easy enough to upgrade if you need more RAM (They support a max of 8GB and have support for Hyper-V - something you may need further through your course, or at least something it might be nice to have).

 

[Kebabselector]

I would go for a Lenovo Thinkpad (ie X220) with Windows Seven it rocks.

I hate the screen ratio on the new Levono kit. 16:9 is terrible for a business device. I know you gain in width, but the slight loss on height makes most apps look squashed. Think I'll hold on to my t410 for a while.

As for OP, I've got servers running VMware fusion, so I've no idea what the lecturer is on about. They work fine for training etc, probably not great in a production environment, but this isn't. On the various MS courses I've been on in the past they all run on Virtual Machines. The only difference is they use MS virtual PC on a pc host.

 

[vitzr]

For years, I've used both Mac Laptops (if Apple hadn't of killed off the name, I could say "PowerBooks") and ThinkPads, in our cross platform environment at work. The company tried Dell & HP a few times to save costs, but nothing could beat the quality, longevity, and durability of a ThinkPad.

The only reason I still use both, is the MacBook Pros tendency to run hot when using either boot camp or virtualization and pushed hard. Yet that could be easily resolved if Apple would demand better quality and consistency in assembly.

In my personal experience their excessive & sloppy application of thermal paste is unlike any others. It's such a problem that when one takes as many apart as I have, only to find that once I remove gobs of the stuff, clean it and reapply properly, the computer runs beautifully. One search of this forum alone reveals that it's a very common problem.

I am highly Pro - Apple and as such, this issue really irritates me since it reflects so poorly on them. A premium computer with less than stellar assembly is a terrible example to set.

 

[chrono1081]

Oh I forgot to mention, you have "Intro to computer science" as one of your courses. Most here will tell you for Computer Science courses Windows is not the best platform to have. A Mac is because you can virtualize Windows or Linux (or boot in to Windows via bootcamp) but having a Unix based OS is a huge must for Comp Sci.

 

[Comeagain?]

Dear god do NOT get a Dell. I've owned 3, and I have family members who've consumed plenty as well. These days their consumer laptops are of terrible quality.

Ok then, the non-consumer Dells are nice. Almost all of Honeywell Inc. is Dell. They hardly every have issues with them, and most issues are Windows related, not hardware. YMMV.

 

[A Hebrew]

You should check out the Lenovo thinkpad. They are rated high and will last for 5+ years easily. You should be able to sell it back for half the price you bought it for after college.

 

[BraHotDel]

Give Lenovo Thinkpad a try -- BTW install VirtualBox in your MacBook Pro

I have had tremendous success with the Lenovo Thinkpad line of notebooks. Price point is still high but solid machines with great specs. The course must have a computer based training component possibly on CD that requires a Windows machine. Although, I had the same comment when I recently went through a Network Administrator course. The curriculum was as follows: CompTIA A+, Net+, Linux+, Windows Server 2008 (Admin, Active Directory, Infrasture), Windows XP, Windows 7, Cisco CCNA (ICND1 and ICND2).

My MacBook Pro 15 has the stock 5400RPM 500GB hard drive, 8GB of RAM and 1680x1050 display in matte. I did not Bootcamp. I installed VirtualBox (formerly from Sun Microsystems but since acquired by Oracle) http://www.virtualbox.org. I successfully completed all of the projects including Server 2008 AD x64 + Windows XP x86 and Windows 7 x64 clients running simultaneously in virtual space. For the Linux component I was able to use Ubuntu Linux 10.04 and Fedora 13. For the Cisco CCNA PacketTracer router and switch simulator was available for Linux. To configure a physical Cisco router or switch I used a Prolific USB-to-Serial adapter and minicom terminal emulation running in OS X terminal. In a Windows XP vm, VMWare vSphere client was installed in order to manage a VMWare ESXi 4.1 hypervisor in the lab.

I would investigate VirtualBox (runs in Windows, Linux and Mac OS X) and encourage some dialog with the instructor to perform a proof-of-concept. I did the same thing for our lab and the result was a conversion of a number of Windows XP and 7 stations to Ubuntu Linux 10.04 x64 running VirtualBox.

BTW. VirtualBox is free. Check it out.

I love my Macbook Pro. But for my courses this spring I need to get a windows machine. My courses are listed below.
Network+: Network Tech Cert
Intro to Windows Server
Intro to Computer Science

I was told by one of my instructers that using parrells (etc.) on my mac would not be sufficient for my courses. I need a full fledged windows machine.
I don't have a problem with it since I get some good aid and I could afford to get buy one anyway. I don't want to spend more than I have to since it will be mainly for school and as an extra laptop for my wife to use. (SINCE I HOG MY MAC! LOL)

Any opinions? Ive seen AMAZON advertise this Toshiba. What do y'all think?
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Satellite-L755-S5349-15-6-Inch-Laptop/dp/B005KP0UVE/ref=zg_bs_565108_2

 

[burnout8488]

I will get my syllabus before I need to buy one but i will email the instructors before then anyway. I am going to ask if they are familiar with bootcamp and what material we will be covering that would not allow me to do my work.

Don't waste your time. There is nothing about Bootcamp that will not allow you to complete your work.

100% nothing

Your professors will probably try to make you doubt the capability of your Mac running Windows, because they have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[AdrianK]

Geez what's the big deal... Windows PCs are really great these days and they are available in numerous shapes, styles, makes, and models. Becoming proficient with Windows 7 (and later) will be a career asset regardless of all this BS about which is better Apple or Microsoft...

Classic over-compensation...

I am going to ask if they are familiar with bootcamp and what material we will be covering that would not allow me to do my work.

I really wouldn't do that. One professor didn't know what bootcamp was, others who don't know will probably flip **** if you use the word 'mac' You'll be fine with bootcamp, as others have suggested, only ask what the Windows requirements are.

 

[ericrwalker]

You should check out the Lenovo thinkpad. They are rated high and will last for 5+ years easily. You should be able to sell it back for half the price you bought it for after college.

Half the price back? I find that hard to believe, but then again there's a sucker born every minute.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Half the price back? I find that hard to believe, but then again there's a sucker born every minute.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I'd be surprised if you could get half price for a lenovo 4yrs old. As far as laptops go, nothing holds its value like a Mac....

 

[chockymonster]

Don't waste your time. There is nothing about Bootcamp that will not allow you to complete your work.

100% nothing

Your professors will probably try to make you doubt the capability of your Mac running Windows, because they have no idea what they're talking about.

Bang on.
I use a MBP for work in a 99% windows environment, I use Fusion and have multiple VMs running on it, including a couple of ESXi servers! The lack of understanding about virutalisation is too common. As long as your mac has the resources then you'll be fine.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

I *truly* have no idea why your prof is forcing you to do this. In fact, you'd be better prepared for the outside world if you ran these machines under Fusion on your Mac, as most servers are now running in VMWare environments anyway.

That special case mentioned above, Bridged NIC under Wifi, is not a problem with VMWare Fusion, I do it all the time.

Seriously, as another poster said, challenge your prof on this.

If at the end of the day, they're requiring Windows on the actual "metal", then BootCamp, but that'll require a little "surgery" on your existing Mac partition.

Good that you asked the question here.

Seriously, save the dough, or buy a small machine for the wife/girlfriend.

Prof may be one of those PC freaks who hate Macs...
As others have said, BootCamp should be more than enough solution.
Also, AFAIK, the last few versions of Parallels do let you connect in bridge-mode.

----------

Bang on.
I use a MBP for work in a 99% windows environment, I use Fusion and have multiple VMs running on it, including a couple of ESXi servers! The lack of understanding about virutalisation is too common. As long as your mac has the resources then you'll be fine.

I do IT work, configure routers, manage Windows Servers, etc., all from my MacBook Pro. I'm actually not taking it on-site as much as before, now I take my iPad instead, except when I need to configure Cisco routers using the console cable. But I want to take it even further, and get the console cable for the iPad, so I could configure routers using the iPad, and not having to bring my MacBook Pro to the job site, as it gets dirty and runs the danger to be dropped or hit with stuff when there's not much room to work.

In the meantime, I use Parallels to run HyperTerminal and configure the Cisco Routers using the console cable. I have a USB to serial adapter, but sometimes HyperTerminal's communication freezes. I never found a good terminal emulator for Mac OS X that would work with my USB to Serial adapter.

I didn't want to use BootCamp, as I don't really want to take a lot of hard drive space just for Windows. And I like it to be nicely self-contained inside Parallels.

 

[quatermass]

Resign from the course!

 

[r0k]

If you only need a machine for one course, I suggest either borrowing or renting a machine or purchasing a netbook or very low end sub $400 laptop. Yes a netbook or low end laptop is slow, but if you select a model that at least supports virtualization you are not out that much money over one class and you can sell it at the end of the term to get some of your money back.

If you decide you want a decent windows machine, I've always been impressed with Lenovo models. I prefer HP slightly over Dell but both are pretty spotty as they offer so many models with so much junk mixed in among the few good ones.


On the topic of using a Mac when the prof says you must use Windows, one of our execs uses a MBA while the rest of the company lugs around Dells and HPs. Our IT load is onerous. There is disk encryption and a LOT of other specialized software and it all works just fine on his MBA. If you choose a Mac, you should have no problems at all in your class. It's your money so unless the school is GIVING you a machine, pick what you want as long as you can prove to yourself it will get you through the class. I haven't done it, but you should be able to install Windows Server in a virtualbox. Your school should provide you with MSDN licenses for any OS they require you to install.

 

[wgnoyes]

Some PC people have no clue about anything Mac. I had to call tech support on a windows program and the guy told me "Macs don't run Windows" when I tried to explain Bootcamp & VMs he argued with me and refused to provide any help, so don't tell them you have a Mac.

Yeah, well, since the philosophy behind virtualization going all the way back to the original IBM VM/370 in the 70's is "it's all lies!" (you don't REALLY have that much hard drive space, you don't really have that RAM, etc), just tell them it's a parts computer. From window's standpoint, that's exactly what it is.

 

[rutledjw]

Boot Camp is NOT the same as a Windows PC. Why? ... Windows 7 in Boot Camp tends to be "finicky" (for lack of a better word) ... I've noticed strange issues PARTICULARLY with networking, which is exactly what the OP is needing Windows for.

Should BC be exactly the same? YES.

(In my personal experience as a tech guy) Is it? NO.

Flame me if you want to, but if I were the OP and I was DEPENDING on Windows to get my degree, I, too, would buy a Windows machine.

And this sums it up, if he's doing server work (which he is), then those little issues can be deal-killers. Minor, annoying glitch as it relates to a lab or major project can cause undue stress (bad) and affect the grade (unacceptable). I really don't care for Windows, I use a MacBook and most of my work is in the *nix environment.

But hey, the OP is taking some Windows classes. It is what it is - I'd make sure it's a box that can Linux without obnoxious driver issues - but that's just me.

Good post!

 

[cr2]

Don't spend more than you have too.

Most of the windows machines are very poorly built and would not last for more than 2 years anyway as the whole windows ecosystem tries to survive on cost (instead of quality).

I wonder, why the boot camp will not work or even fusion? When most people run their servers under VM what is the problem in running on Fusion. Just double check... Maybe the people at the school have no clue..Or just try to use it under Fusion / Bootcamp and get a windows machine, only if an absolute must.

With 16GB RAM a lot cheaper, I would get that instead.

Get your wife an MBA unless you want to be the support person for the house

 

[Bevz]

Get your wife an MBA unless you want to be the support person for the house

Oh this is so true.. SO SO true...

 

[systole]

Mac CCNP/Networking student

Before you make the switch, ask what software is required. I have been able to do all my windows 2008 Server classes, all CCNA, CCNP, CCDA, CCNA security classes, and all other classes as apart of an A.A.S. degree using my mac when told the same thing. Let me know if you need any help getting things running.

-Systole