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I know this a place for Iphone, but I want to talk about the Note.
- Thread starter GKDAIR
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It is translating into more Apple sales. Just because Windows is still ahead, does not mean its not translating into more Apple sales.
I'm sorry to say this mbell1975, but none of your posts here are based on logic. You are making conclusions based on facts that don't support what you're saying
Okay guys, are you honestly trying to argue that because the 9 million pre-orders (which must be WAY higher by now) were ordered by carriers that it somehow means the S3 is not the most-pre-ordered smartphone of all time?
The 4S had 4 million pre-orders. You think the carriers over-estimated the amount of demand by over 5 million devices?
Android is growing much faster that iOS. That is a fact. It wouldn't surprise me to see the S3 as the best selling smartphone of all time come its US release date. But even if its not, who cares. Android as a whole is attracting users faster than iOS is. Apple is going to have to figure out why, and correct it, if they want to retake the #1 spot.
Judging by the litigation and desperate injunctions against Samsung and HTC, I would say they know this better than any of the fanboys here.
The 4S had 4 million pre-orders. You think the carriers over-estimated the amount of demand by over 5 million devices?
Android is growing much faster that iOS. That is a fact. It wouldn't surprise me to see the S3 as the best selling smartphone of all time come its US release date. But even if its not, who cares. Android as a whole is attracting users faster than iOS is. Apple is going to have to figure out why, and correct it, if they want to retake the #1 spot.
Judging by the litigation and desperate injunctions against Samsung and HTC, I would say they know this better than any of the fanboys here.
1. You are comparing apples to oranges. Comparing the number of carrier orders to the number of customer orders is not relevant. Sprint alone ordered 30 million iPhones last October, what do you think the total iPhone number was for carriers when the iPhone 4S was released?
2. This is the same argument made against Apple in the laptop/desktop market. They don't want to compete with the bottom end. I can walk into a Walmart right now and buy an Android phone, unsubsidized, for $68 and pay $29.99 a month for unlimited text and data. Apple does not want to enter that market. HP led the PC market in sales last year, yet still tried to get out of it.
Apple doesn't want to be #1 in sales, they want to be #1 in profits.
3. The same litigation is happening on both sides, Samsung is trying to stop sales of iPhones in many countries, and Motorola successfully made Apple remove some iCloud features in Germany a few months back. Your logic would apply to Apple as well.
iPhone and iOS
Best selling phone
75% of mobile profits
Highest customer satisfaction
Highest resell value
Most apps
Most developer support
Largest most mature ecosystem
...exactly what number one spot are you referring to?
Uh, the one that I talked about in my post perhaps?
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1. I'm the one comparing apples to oranges? Let's check your facts: http://www.unwiredview.com/2011/10/...n-iphones-will-sell-the-iphone-5-exclusively/ . From the article: Apparently, the Now Network has guaranteed to Apple that it will purchase between 30.5 and 32 million iPhones in the next four years. So about 30 million iPhones in 4 years, versus 9 million S3s in.... about a month? And yes I realize the 30 million is only for Sprint, but its over the course of 4 years. That's 625,000 a month. So I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I'd love to see the full pre-orders to carriers for the 4S if the numbers were available.
2. Agreed. They are #1 in profits, and #2 in marketshare. I never argued Apple wasn't #1 in profits.
3. Not disputing you, but could you link an example of Samsung filing an injunction to stop iPhone sales in a country?
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1. If we had some information on the timeframe of the S3 carrier orders, we could better compare numbers. For all we know, the 9 million orders are also in a time frame of 4 years, or 1 year...etc.
It might be apples to oranges, it might not, but we know your comparison is apples to oranges. (lol at the fruit references)
3. http://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+injunction+iphone+4s&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
Tell you what, android can sell lots of garbage and turds, and Apple can take all the money.
Considering the S3 was announced and unveiled on May 3rd, I think its a safe bet that orders for the device did not begin to take place more than a month and a half ago
Your iPhone statistic is not specifically for the 4S, its for 30 million iPhones over the course of the next four years. I think it's pretty clear this is a VERY different (and much less impressive) statistic than 9 million pre-orders between the announcement (May 3rd) and Samsung's pre-order announcement (May 18th). See: http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/18/3028051/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-9-million-pre-ordersRegardless, like you said, its tough to compare this directly to the 4S. The real hard data we have is that Android is a much more popular smartphone OS than iOS right now, and growing at a much faster rate. I think that's tough to dispute. And yes, Apple leads in profits, customer satisfaction, etc. But if I were an Apple investor, I would worry about the trend in usage. You'd think iOS would have much higher usage considering how "ahead" it is in so many categories.
Duly noted on the Samsung injunction filing, by the way.
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This doesn't even address anything I'm saying. I admitted Apple is ahead in the profit war. What claim in my post are you rebutting?
This doesn't even address anything I'm saying. I admitted Apple is ahead in the profit war. What claim in my post are you rebutting?
It's a false metric that's great for headlines but horrible from a business perspective. Android sales are largely meaningless because it does not translate to profit, developer share or even success.
Considering the S3 was announced and unveiled on May 3rd, I think its a safe bet that orders for the device did not begin to take place more than a month and a half ago
Regardless, like you said, its tough to compare this directly to the 4S. The real hard data we have is that Android is a much more popular smartphone OS than iOS right now, and growing at a much faster rate. I think that's tough to dispute. And yes, Apple leads in profits, customer satisfaction, etc. But if I were an Apple investor, I would worry about the trend in usage. You'd think iOS would have much higher usage considering how "ahead" it is in so many categories.
Duly noted on the Samsung injunction filing, by the way.
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This doesn't even address anything I'm saying. I admitted Apple is ahead in the profit war. What claim in my post are you rebutting?
Not sure what you mean by orders not happening over a month and a half ago. I'm talking about shipment date. The 9 million figure is taking into account over 100 carriers, and we know nothing about the shipment date. Did even one of the carriers say "We want X amount of phones this year"?
You are correct, the Sprint number refers to all iPhones, not the iPhone 4S, but remember we are comparing one carrier to over a hundred.
My point isn't necessarily that these numbers show iPhone > SG3, my point is the numbers are not a direct comparison. Let's see what the final sold-through numbers are, and compare that. Let's see how many phones they've sold in the quarter, and compare that. Those are hard numbers given to investors that cannot be fudged.
Yes, Android dominates the numbers game right now, but the question is why? Is that reflective of quality device, or is that reflective of how cheap some of the devices are?
I think this is very short-sighted. If the growth trends continue, and Android soon has, say, 70% of the market while iOS has 25%, which platform do you think will get preferential treatment? Even if there are more apps and more money to be made currently in the App Store, at a certain point the returns begin to diminish if there are proportionally fewer and fewer users to buy them.
This isn't a problem right now because the two platforms are still pretty close in marketshare, and iOS has a huge lead in the tablet arena. But you can bet that if the trends continue as they are, Apple's lead in this arena will start to dwindle. And with it, so will the profit margin.
I wasn't meaning to bring profit into this equation, though. Marketshare reflects what users are buying. Right now, more users are buying Android phones than iPhones and the trend is accelerating. There is a reason for this, and judging by the insane sales of the S3, I don't think it can be solely attributed to "cheap" and "junky" android phones.
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The carriers made pre-orders, I assume pre-orders are the same as they conventionally are to us consumers: they get them on or around release date, not later this year or next year. But I agree with all of the rest of this, so I will quote it for reference. As for the final question, as stated above I think there's more to it than cheap devices (remember that the iPhone 4 is $99 on contract, and the 3GS is free). I think the S3 pre-order numbers are evidence of this fact as well.
As I already said before, as of 9 months ago, new customers could get a FREE 3gs or a 4 for only $99. Not only has Apple not gained any ground in 9 months, Android has actually increased its marketshare lead. So your belief that most people are only buying Android's due to the cheap price is flawed. If price were the main issue, you would have seen a big jump in Apple's marketshare when the 3gs and 4 went free and cheap, but that didn't happen.
You don't get it or you're being intentionally obtuse.
There is no subsidy pool shared among android makers for units sold, there is no kick back for app sales. There is no collective.
There is no money in android for handset makers other than hardware sales, and hardware sales has the lowest margins.
For HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung to make as much money as Apple, they would each need to sell billions of units a year. The financial incentive is tiny which is why they are struggling. Samsung is the only one doing well because they are carpet bombing and killing other android makers and RIM, not Apple.
Android sales mean absolutely nothing.
And to your point that more android adoption equals more support. That's a farce. For one, android users smartphone like they are on welfare, and pay very little for anything. Android users don't spend money. Apple knows this, and developers know this.
In case you missed it...where is the preferential treatment?
Mind you, on the USA side, Apple only has 12% of the market and they still are running over everyone in terms of real money made.
Again mbell1975, I feel there's no point in debating when you forget things I've said to you within the last few hours
I can walk into Walmart right now and buy an Android smartphone for $68 off-contract, and pay $29.99 for unlimited text and data. This is by far cheaper than any iPhone.
Again mbell1975, I feel there's no point in debating when you forget things I've said to you within the last few hours
I can walk into Walmart right now and buy an Android smartphone for $68 off-contract, and pay $29.99 for unlimited text and data. This is by far cheaper than any iPhone.
You just proved my point. If people are choosing to pay $70 for an Android phone over a FREE 3gs or only paying another $30 for a 4 should tell you it really isn't about price. People want an Android phone
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Oh? Here ya go
This is really all that matters
No no. There will be no circular arguments for you. Your claim was that Apple share is in decline, when in reality, android sales in the USA have fallen four months in a row...
http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/04/android-sales-fall-in-u-s/
Ok, this proves your point. However, Android still dominates the mobile phone market while Apple owns individual phone sales. We'll see what happens when the S3 goes on sale everywhere soon.
You just proved my point. If people are choosing to pay $70 for an Android phone over a FREE 3gs or only paying another $30 for a 4 should tell you it really isn't about price. People want an Android phone
mbell1975, this is another illogical post
What's cheaper?
1. A free phone, with a two year contract and $90 monthly fee (cheapest phone plan + cheapest text plan + cheapest data plan, not counting 300MB).
2. A $68 phone, with no contract and a $30 monthly fee and unlimited text and data?
mbell1975, this is another illogical post
What's cheaper?
1. A free phone, with a two year contract and $90 monthly fee (cheapest phone plan + cheapest text plan + cheapest data plan, not counting 300MB).
2. A $68 phone, with no contract and a $30 monthly fee and unlimited text and data?
Where is this plan for unlimited voice, text and data for $30?
And we know from Apple's overall business philosophy, that their goal is not to sell the most at the expense of product quality and user experience. Never has been, never will be.
95% of android phones are bad products, with only a couple of high point products a year. Everything else is feces.
Apple is never going to play that game.
Google makes Android which is an OS, and sell virtually no phones(is it only the nexus?).
Apple makes iOS and sell 4 high end smartphones.
The comparison allowed are:
Android(OS) vs iOS.
or
iPhone(Apple) vs HTC, Motorola, Samsung (pick one).
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These arguments however are all moot.
In 2010 the most sold car in UK was the Ford Fiesta with 103,013 units, Ferrari had its best year selling 6,573. Most sold is not equal to #1 spot.
Apple makes iOS and sell 4 high end smartphones.
The comparison allowed are:
Android(OS) vs iOS.
or
iPhone(Apple) vs HTC, Motorola, Samsung (pick one).
---
These arguments however are all moot.
In 2010 the most sold car in UK was the Ford Fiesta with 103,013 units, Ferrari had its best year selling 6,573. Most sold is not equal to #1 spot.
So by your logic the only good Android phones are the One X and S3? LOL There is the Note, One S, Razr Maxx, Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy S2, Evo LTE, Rezound, 4G slide, Vivid, Infuse, Captivate etc...thats just off the top of my head. Not to mention all the great Android phones coming in the 2nd half of this year. The only Android phones that are truly junk are the ones for $50 in grocery stores, nice try though.
Again, please link me this laptop your speaking of. You need REAL facts to back your arguments.
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The S3 has been on sale in Australia for a month or two still yet to see someone using one and normally when theres a new iPhone I see many people using it within the first 24 hours thats what makes the difference for me.
Stop hiding behind your statistics and actually look at real world use.