Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I miss Steve Jobs.
- Thread starter espreso
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
The lineups were not that simple when Steve was in charge.
People take a small era of time where he talked about a four computer lineup, but that only existed for a total of 14 months.
Yes, there was a very small, 14 month window between May 1999 in July 2000 where there was the iBook, iMac, PowerMac and PowerBook.
But even in these lines, it was a lot more complicated than one might imagine, especially for the iMac.
There were three models of the iMac introduced in late 1999, the regular iMac, the iMac DV and the iMac DV Special Edition, so not exactly as simple as he made it look.
And then this four product matrix was later joined by the G4 Cube, then the eMac, Xserve, Mac Mini, MacBook Air.
In fact, the Mac at its most complicated when he was in charge was probably in 2009, and I’d argue the iPad line today is significantly easier to understand than that 2009 Mac lineup.
AirPods? Literally big enough that if they split off into their own company, they’d be more successful than almost every music streaming service combined.
M1? Steve may have been starting the early stages of moving the Mac to ARM, Tim is the actual guy that made it happen though.
Why do you say this?
Steve, like Tim, usually discontinued things that didn’t sell, no matter how cool he thought they were.
Ex: G4 Cube, iPod Hi-Fi.
I see no evidence he would have kept around a mini phone… just because. If they didn’t sell, they would’ve been killed off no matter what.
The absolute irony of these comments that half the people think Steve would have sliced the product lines down to just one or two options, while the other half think that he would’ve kept around Mini phones and the 12 inch MacBook and all sorts of products that have come and gone over the years.
I miss Steve Jobs too. I really wish Jobs had made Scott Forstall CEO because Forstall was the most Jobs-like person at Apple. If Forstall was CEO, Apple would've made far less profits than has been made under Tim Cook, but the products would've been much more user-friendly and less expensive under Forstall.
If someone almost did something they didn’t do it.
Although I’ve not heard this story, so I’m not sure how accurate it is. He was known for pushing against new ideas at times and then changing his mind.
That whole process is him. So ultimately he did okay the iPhone, and I’m not sure why him not jumping on the idea at first demonstrates anything about his judgment.
It’s definitely not as simple as number of product lines.
I can’t speaks for others, but when I talk about Jobs and simplifying the product matrix I am not under the illusion that the 4x4 grid was the ultimate solution.
But at times Apple’s product matrix is messy and confusing.
This is not because it doesn’t fit into a 4x4 grid.
Then will you explain what you want? Because to me all of the lines especially at this moment in time make complete sense.
Three regular iPads at very distinct price points:
iPad: A16 chip, easiest to repair, clearly meant for those who literally just need a tablet, kids and educational facilities.
iPad Air: the everybody tablet. Pretty much anyone who buys it will be very happy with it.
iPad Pro: the best of everything, best screen, best speakers, best build, best specs.
And then there’s the iPad mini, which is kind of its own product category itself, very popular in aviation and retail.
What’s so complicated to understand about that?
Is it really much harder to understand than the Mac lineup from 15 years ago during peak Jobs?
There have been a number of articles, books, etc. about Jobs' iPhone resistance over the years. I posted a few links in post #33 in this thread.
Having to be convinced of something doesn't make someone a "visionary." A visionary would be more someone who sees the potential of something and may have to convince others rather than the other way around. The good thing in this case was that he was at least an open-minded and receptive leader.
Yes, just a he also okayed unsuccessful products like Apple III, Apple Lisa, Power Mac G4 Cube, iPod Hi-Fi, iTunes Ping, etc.
I just don't see Jobs' vision as being as "wildly successful" as some do. Of course, that doesn't mean it was "wildly unsuccessful" either. I'm not sure why some seem to have such an issue with this stance. I may not be a Steve Jobs "fanboy" but I'm certainly not a Steve Jobs "hater" either.
Seems like a lot of people are of the sentiment that the current Apple is better because they produce hardwares that are spec-wise more powerful. However for me I actually agree with you, using Apple product back then empowered me to be creative and makes what I do enjoyable. The current Apple product, not so much.
And then people said that it's because today it is different - computers and phones are no longer the future they once were, that they've become bread and butter. Well that's for sure and I think if someone half as visionary as Jobs are at the helm, Apple won't just keep on making Macs and iPhones the way the are now. The real Apple do not make bread and butter products! They innovate. They would be looking at some new product that we didn't know we want, the way they did with iPhone or iMac back then.
Unfortunately, in time, every company will become an IBM.
We can only hope that one day someone else, founding another company, would make a different product in a different field that would transform our individual life the way iPhone and Mac did.
That's the reality that is somewhat sad for us all to digest, but it's the truth.
Companies that achieve the level of success and longevity that Apple has are basically never the ones to come up with the hot new creative and interesting tech or tool.
The one main issue we have here is that the lack of meaningful antitrust enforcement has already meant lots of untapped potential due to tech companies gobbling up the upstarts before they can ever really take off.
The vast majority of people are not revolutionaries and contrarians. You can’t hire for it either. 2011 Apple was snowballing, Tim simply rode the wave and tried not to change much. Result is you’ve got a bloated vacuous shell of 2011 Apple. It simply is what it is. Perhaps someone else will come along and revolutionise consumer tech.
I’m actually of the opinion that any real progress in human innovation over the coming years won’t be about more tools but instead fixing the mess of inequality and sustainability
I’m actually of the opinion that any real progress in human innovation over the coming years won’t be about more tools but instead fixing the mess of inequality and sustainability
Evidence, haha...haha...😂
There's no evidence that he would've killed the mini either.
There's no eveidence in any directions of threads that speculate about a dead person.
I can't say thar there's any rumors around Steve Jobs, as this whole thread is about missing Steve.
Not about having any proofs or what could've happened if he didn't die so early.
It's not possible - not even depending on what led up to his 'fame' or death.
So my guess or thoughts around the guy is as good as yours, so go ahead speculate - I won't stop you.
I see no evidence in any direction.
IMHO Apple wouldn’t be radically different if Jobs was still alive. The biggest difference I actually think would happen is that Forstall and Ive might still be at Apple and that the car project would get canned sooner.
Apple made plenty of dumbass decisions before 2011. (Rubinstein was prophetic about Ive making overengineered, expensive products and got let go for it)
Macs were already moving in the walled garden direction. The MacBook Air and the Mac App Store were already out before he retired.
And frankly, it’s entirely possible would’ve retired and picked Cook as his successor by now anyways.
Apple made plenty of dumbass decisions before 2011. (Rubinstein was prophetic about Ive making overengineered, expensive products and got let go for it)
Macs were already moving in the walled garden direction. The MacBook Air and the Mac App Store were already out before he retired.
And frankly, it’s entirely possible would’ve retired and picked Cook as his successor by now anyways.
I like my 14” M1 Pro MBP (although my lack of ocular proficiency means I will replace it with a 16”), my iPhone works, my M1 iPad Pro is still more iPad than I need four and change years later, and I like my Apple Watch Ultra. These are all very well-made, reliable products I enjoy using. And so they should be; they are premium products, priced accordingly.
You can see Tim Apple’s legendary supply-chain-oriented focus on consistency and quality; even an official refurb product (like my laptop) comes out of the box absolutely pristine. Fit and finish is second to none. Apple laptops are still the only laptops that reliably pass the one-handed-open test.
And yet there are some real blind spots.
Gaming on Apple hardware - every other year, at WWDC, an expensive-looking executive wearing an expensive-looking leather jacket is wheeled out to tell us all about how he’s bringing the latest four-year-old niche AAA game to Apple Silicon. When he’s finished speaking, he is powered down, put back in his box, and a note added: “To be opened in two years’ time”. It’s never “we’re working with studios and publishers to bring you the games you and your friends love to play together, like FIFA or COD or whatever”, it’s always “here’s an unfeasibly gory zombie game, where you get chased around by a nine-foot-tall woman with huge boobs, a big hat, and a tight dress”, or “here’s a weird delivery game, where you have an unborn baby in a jar strapped to your chest so you can avoid the transdimensional demons, but it’s got him off The Walking Dead in it”.
I get just the same “it’s a WWDC thing, forget about it the rest of the time” vibe from Apple on the topic of Siri and AI. Many fancy presentations at WWDC, with curated “experiences” showing how Siri and AI can do all sorts of marvellous things, and yet the lived reality remains Siri being able to reliably do one thing - set timers - and mostly reliably do one other thing - get directions.
Genmoji?* Waste of time. Image Playground? Barely works, also a waste of time. Siri AI? It’s basically ChatGPT, and I have a more-useful ChatGPT App For That.
*For realsies, though: what’s the deal with Apple’s emoji obsession? Has anyone ever actually used a memoji unironically?
You can see Tim Apple’s legendary supply-chain-oriented focus on consistency and quality; even an official refurb product (like my laptop) comes out of the box absolutely pristine. Fit and finish is second to none. Apple laptops are still the only laptops that reliably pass the one-handed-open test.
And yet there are some real blind spots.
Gaming on Apple hardware - every other year, at WWDC, an expensive-looking executive wearing an expensive-looking leather jacket is wheeled out to tell us all about how he’s bringing the latest four-year-old niche AAA game to Apple Silicon. When he’s finished speaking, he is powered down, put back in his box, and a note added: “To be opened in two years’ time”. It’s never “we’re working with studios and publishers to bring you the games you and your friends love to play together, like FIFA or COD or whatever”, it’s always “here’s an unfeasibly gory zombie game, where you get chased around by a nine-foot-tall woman with huge boobs, a big hat, and a tight dress”, or “here’s a weird delivery game, where you have an unborn baby in a jar strapped to your chest so you can avoid the transdimensional demons, but it’s got him off The Walking Dead in it”.
I get just the same “it’s a WWDC thing, forget about it the rest of the time” vibe from Apple on the topic of Siri and AI. Many fancy presentations at WWDC, with curated “experiences” showing how Siri and AI can do all sorts of marvellous things, and yet the lived reality remains Siri being able to reliably do one thing - set timers - and mostly reliably do one other thing - get directions.
Genmoji?* Waste of time. Image Playground? Barely works, also a waste of time. Siri AI? It’s basically ChatGPT, and I have a more-useful ChatGPT App For That.
*For realsies, though: what’s the deal with Apple’s emoji obsession? Has anyone ever actually used a memoji unironically?
Last edited:
Very solid post I agree with. First two paragraphs resonate with me, my old iMac is still solid (touch wood) and almost all my iPhones have been useful and reliable. I am not the gamer I was back in college so while regrettable it doesn't bother me personally Apple's lack of attention here - except for those *çç&* "free-to-play" iOS games. I do feel for gamers though, the hardware is certainly up to the task.
AI and Siri I agree with you, too bad Apple has let themselves fall behind.
iPod, iPod nanos, iPod Shuffle 1st gen, iPod Shuffle 3rd gen, Macbook Air, iPad and…
iPhone.
Yeah. I missed him too.
iPhone.
Yeah. I missed him too.
I just posted a long rant today on Reddit about how the new Macbook Airs have wonderful specs but none of the magic of the old ones. The tapered design made them feel truly light and airy, and while the notch saves some bezel it's an ugly feature calling attention to itself while you quickly forget a bezel is there. Is it really that important to have 22 hours of battery life instead of 18, or is a non-tapered form factor just cheaper to design and build? (Not to mention having the function keys the same size as the others, or eliminating the speaker grills.) Jobs cared about the experience and he imbued that all the way down throughout Apple's products. These days their devices are about specs much like Android phones used to be – while Android phones have become the innovators. I'll continue with Apple for now because the software experience is still marginally better and privacy and security are much better, but it's more of a utilitarian relationship with technology now rather than a romantic one.
My exact feelings too. If Steve wouldn't have passed, he would've had to change if Apple grew the same under his time as CEO. Tim was the right person for this job. Steve picked him, he wouldn't take no for an answer either since he personally met with Tim when he was on the fence about joining Apple in the late 1990s. Tim said it was the biggest risk of his professional career.
The iPad and iPhone lineups are exactly as you describe: oodles of minor internal variations on a theme rather than distinct forms and functions. They don't need to sell three different kinds each of iPhone 14, 15, and 16 all at the same time; they DO need small, medium, and large phones in the lineup. With the iPad, just make the basic model good enough for pros and amateurs alike and do it in mini, standard, and large sizes; don't try to hit every price point with near-identical products and maximize market saturation. The philosophy is completely different.
It’s the Unicode group that adds the new emoji every year, not Apple.
As for why Apple piles on with things like animoji, I think that it’s less features that they think people will actually use on a daily basis, and more just a super easy, simple way to demonstrate technology advancements to regular people.
Think FaceID, the animated emoji that tracked your face and mimic your movements was added with the iPhone X, and was a simple demo of the new TrueDepth Camera.
Apple has always done this type of thing, before it was emojis, it was Photobooth and iChat gimmicks like custom backgrounds, and birds that would follow your face.
Not particularly useful, but when a WebCam was finally added to MacBooks internally, it was one heck of a demo in 2006.
The other element to it is the fact that most average consumers actually use and like emojis.
I personally use none of it, I deleted “Image Playground” the second it appeared on my home screen and have never used it once.
But that’s how the Mac has been for decades.
In fact, going back to my 2009 example, there was a 13 inch MacBook, a 13 inch MacBook Air and a 13 inch MacBook Pro. It was literally the same as it is today with the 11 inch iPads, down to the names. Regular, air and pro.
I get what you are going for, but I don’t think it would work as easily as you think.
We have had smaller iPhones, they don’t sell.
We have a small iPad.
The reason that 6.1 inch phones and around 11 inch tablets are so abundant is because that is the screen size is the default screen size that sells, just like laptops right around 13 inches.
This idea also completely ignores different price brackets.
You said that they should make the iPad good enough that there’s just one in different sizes, but that ignores the fact that what people consider good enough for “Pros” would have to have a starting price somewhere around $800-$1000.
The iPad currently starts at $350 and is massive in education where they buy them in bulk for $299 each.
Try telling these institutions that they’re only option for a full-size tablet from Apple is $1000, they will just go elsewhere, and Apple will lose an entire market.
The idea of a lineup that just has one MacBook, one iPad, one iPhone sounds great in theory, but if you actually sit down and try to figure out how to do that without just discontinuing all of the affordable models you quickly realize that it really isn’t possible.
If there were one iPhone, that was just everything you wanted, it would be over $1000.
One iPad and three different sizes that just had everything you wanted, $1000
One MacBook in several different sizes that just had the exact same specifications and whatever you wanted, thousands of dollars.
Lastly, there’s the fact that you could never guarantee that the smaller devices would cost less, as miniaturization almost always costs more.
That’s why whenever people suggest something like an iPad mini pro, and they are under the assumption that it would cost less than the current iPad Pro, it’s more than likely they couldn’t be further from the truth.
I agree,
Steve Jobs said that things should be simple and that multiple models weren’t necessary—why have them when you can make just one, the best one? Everything else is just dilution! I’m also tired of semi-features being introduced as something new and groundbreaking—they’re not. Under Jobs, they were. He waited until he could truly present something new and revolutionary.
Maybe Apple should also focus on developing or improving new devices—an electric Apple Mini Car, a flying drone for personal transport, a smart Apple Bike, medical devices, off-grid batteries, and other advanced technologies.
Why?
First of all, Apple does make medical devices, or as close to medical devices as you will ever see them make with the Watch and AirPods. Apparently the eventual goal is that these devices will be able to do rudimentary blood pressure and sugar testing, we will have to see what happens with that, but the point is that they are already involved in that area.
The rest of those ideas are all about transportation. Apple is the last company I would ever go to for something like that, we saw what happened to their car project.
Personally, I think they should stick to what they do best, I don’t really think anyone is too interested in an Apple Bike, as interesting as it would probably be.