It may not be a lost sale, but it's still theft. I think some of you should be lawyers, you sure like to obscure the truth through justification/excuse/warped morality.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
General I often "try and buy"
- Thread starter fdjofre
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
It may not be a lost sale, but it's still theft. I think some of you should be lawyers, you sure like to obscure the truth through justification/excuse/warped morality.
This is exactly what I do. I stay away from new tweaks until I am as certain as possible that I will not only like the tweak, but that it's stable too.
It is not theft.
Suppose you have an axe for sale. I look closely at your axe and make myself an exact copy. I take that copy home and try to split some wood. If it works to my satisfaction, then I destroy my copy and go buy your axe. If it does not, then I destroy my copy and go look for someone selling a better axe.
Your axe was never stolen. Your government-enforced monopoly on creating that exact style of axe may have been infringed, but nothing was stolen.
So you sneak into the movie theatre without paying, but don't like the movie, so walk out. You've done nothing wrong cause you didn't stay, right?
Or you want to buy a car, but instead of asking for a test drive, you just take the car, don't like it, and drop it back. Again, done nothing wrong?
At the end of the day, it's still copyright infringement.
That is trespassing, not theft.
In many jurisdictions that would be unlawful borrowing, which is a misdemeanor, not felony theft. Note that this activity deprives the owner of the car while it is being borrowed.
True. Which is not theft. In fact, most copyright infringement is a civil offense, not a criminal one. Before 1998 there was no such thing as criminal copyright infringement in the USA at all.
I never said it wasn't theft. I was gainsaying the broken rationale that just because someone pirates something and then deletes it, means it is a lost sale.
I didn't say it was theft. I said "it's wrong".
This discussion has been done to death. It *is* classed as theft - it's classed as theft of the developers sole distribution rights, or something along those lines.
We arnt talking about clothes and CDs here
Its a piece of software.
If I walked into PC world and grabbed any software off the shelf and installed it on my PC to try it then throw it back on the shelf because I didn't like it id get arrested.
Wowsers, I had no idea there were so many thieves frequenting these forums.. and they're not even intelligent enough to know that they're stealing.
You were responding to someone who wrote I don't believe it to be theft and I don't think it's stealing when I'm not keeping anything.
Those lines were in the text you quoted in your post. You were participating in a conversation about whether copyright infringement is theft, and your post was an attempt to rebut someones claims that it is not theft. In that context, regardless of whether you yourself typed the word theft, your post was implying that it is.
I was refuting that.
I dont know what legal jurisdiction you live in, but in the United States copyright infringement is emphatically not theft, and in the vast majority of cases is it not a crime at all: it is a civil offense, meaning the copyright holder can sue you for damages, but you cannot be imprisoned for it.
However, beyond the question of what the laws currently say, there is the larger question of what the laws ought to say. In other words, is try-before-you-buy morally wrong the way theft or plagiarism is?
I and many others hold the position that try-before-you-buy with software is not ethically wrong, and many of us would like to see the laws adjusted to incorporate try-before-you buy into the category of fair-use.
People can justify this all they want, but the moment you install software that is not free and you did not pay for it, you will have stolen it. At this moment it becomes theft, regardless of what happens after the fact.
There are plenty of physical stores where you can try a product before buying it. Even after you buy it most stores have a return policy. I would like to see Apple and Cydia institute some kind of return policy. Like you can get a refund no questions asked within 24 hours of purchase. At least require developers to provide a free version or a trial before you buy an app.
Not really. Almost all modern stores have sale samples out where you can try the product. Say the Apple Store. They have iPhone's out on display where you can try them and see if you enjoy the product. If you do, you buy it, if you don't you walk away.
There were only a couple of apps that I bought before trying. I am glad that I did that, because some of them appeared to be bad. I am not going to waste a single dollar if I can avoid doing that.
If we're talking about jailbreak tweaks. I would NEVER buy anything before trying, because there are so many incompatible, badly written tweaks... Or just not worth a penny for it's capabilities.
If we're talking about jailbreak tweaks. I would NEVER buy anything before trying, because there are so many incompatible, badly written tweaks... Or just not worth a penny for it's capabilities.
I don't know about you, but I've never received permission. It could just be a fancy display.
I just can't take someone seriously who uses pirated apps that cost next to nothing, yet pays $50 or more monthly to Verizon, ATT, etc. for service. Forget about whether or not it's theft. We're talking 99 cents to a few bucks for most tweaks. Buy it and don't like it? Give the developer feedback. You might help improve the app.
Did you even bother to read the whole thread? I explicitly said that, speaking for myself, living in a country where the US dollar is extremely expensive, I have to really be sure where to spend my money.
If my currency was the US dollar I wouldn't mind spending money on tweaks. But unfortunately 1 US dollar are around 13 of my currency.
We're not talking about continuously pirating. We're talking about trying something to see if it's worth our hard earned money.
I'm not saying whats right or wrong, and I'm not saying whats illegal or theft.
That being said, I do try before I buy and If i do like the product, I will support the developer. I just think the system of selling software is very flawed. Many tweaks/apps/add-ons/etc are released with bugs and then become unsupported and dormant leaving the purchaser and the supporter of the development "hanging". And that is essentially "legally stealing" from the customer.
The Official App Store Has the right idea. Offer a free App, and charge for specific features inside the App, or release a "Lite" version of the app and charge for the "Pro" version.
If you look outside of the iOS space, you'll see that a large percentage of software developers (Microsoft, Adobe, Intuit, etc) offer free trials or evaluation periods so a customer can test a product and make sure it meets their expectations. Obviously if i walked into a store and installed it on my device I shouldn't be able to return it because if i wanted to try it, i would have downloaded an evaluation copy before hand.
I BELIEVE ALL SOLD SOFTWARE SHOULD INCLUDE TRAIL/EVALUATION PERIOD.
I just think this entire subject is a never ending battle. There are 3 Types of customers
-People who steal and never want to pay for the product
-People who want to buy a product, but would like to try it before they hand over their cash. A trial is not available so they find other means of trying it. (AKA cracked apps)
-People who are willing to risk their money, with no ability to return the product, and hope that the product meets their needs
That being said, I do try before I buy and If i do like the product, I will support the developer. I just think the system of selling software is very flawed. Many tweaks/apps/add-ons/etc are released with bugs and then become unsupported and dormant leaving the purchaser and the supporter of the development "hanging". And that is essentially "legally stealing" from the customer.
The Official App Store Has the right idea. Offer a free App, and charge for specific features inside the App, or release a "Lite" version of the app and charge for the "Pro" version.
If you look outside of the iOS space, you'll see that a large percentage of software developers (Microsoft, Adobe, Intuit, etc) offer free trials or evaluation periods so a customer can test a product and make sure it meets their expectations. Obviously if i walked into a store and installed it on my device I shouldn't be able to return it because if i wanted to try it, i would have downloaded an evaluation copy before hand.
I BELIEVE ALL SOLD SOFTWARE SHOULD INCLUDE TRAIL/EVALUATION PERIOD.
I just think this entire subject is a never ending battle. There are 3 Types of customers
-People who steal and never want to pay for the product
-People who want to buy a product, but would like to try it before they hand over their cash. A trial is not available so they find other means of trying it. (AKA cracked apps)
-People who are willing to risk their money, with no ability to return the product, and hope that the product meets their needs
I don't ever really buy an app before I've tried it out. Whether that be from the developer's official trial period (smart) or otherwise. If I like the tweak, I buy it. I want to support the developer. But without being able to check out the tweak first, I would never buy any.