I think "disagree" (thumbs down) and laugh emojis degrade this community

[turbineseaplane]

How exactly do you differentiate between the community actively voting and a "pile on fest"?

The distinction doesn't matter - let people vote, just don't show anyone the votes other than the person who made the actual comment (if they care to seek it out)...and use the up/down vote data to allow sorting options for thread viewing.

The problem with pile on (or even active voting in good faith) is the results being visible. It's impossible to not be impacted by it as a voter, irrespective of motive or intent.

Does that make sense? I want to make sure I'm explaining myself correctly.
Thanks

 

[icanhazmac]

Does that make sense? I want to make sure I'm explaining myself correctly.

No, that really doesn't make sense. You are assuming that visibility = "pile on" mentality, I think visible votes allow the community to register their opinion publicly even if they do not have the time or inclination to post.

I would venture to say that a hidden voting system enables the trolls to vendictively vote more than they are said to do now.

 

[canesalato]

I am probably in the minority on this but I think all of the up and down voting results should be hidden to end users (other than the poster themself perhaps).
[...] hide those results so people can actually think with their own brain and not be influenced by what others are up or downvoting

I feel the same way, but as you said, we are a minority and the majority rules. シ

Tyranny of the majority - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I would venture to say that a hidden voting system enables the trolls to vendictively vote more than they are said to do now.

I think with their vote being hidden they wouldn't do it so much. Trolls are cowards, their intent is shaming. I might be wrong, of course.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I would venture to say that a hidden voting system enables the trolls to vendictively vote more than they are said to do now.

With no way to see the outcome, it’s hard to believe that would be the case.

I appreciate the back-and-forth and I’m glad we tried to see some middle ground despite not reaching it

 

[turbineseaplane]

I think visible votes allow the community to register their opinion publicly even if they do not have the time or inclination to post.

Their vote will still be registered… The visibility portion is unnecessary.

Also if you don’t have the time or inclination to post, perhaps your opinion is not that valuable honestly.

“Drive by” opinions if just up and down voting are of low to no value.

Putting some time in as a requirement isn’t a bad barrier at all. In fact it’s more likely to get well thought out opinions and conversation going.

 

[icanhazmac]

I appreciate the back-and-forth and I’m glad we tried to see some middle ground despite not reaching it

👍

Their vote will still be registered… The visibility portion is unnecessary.

I fail to see why it is unnecessary and you really haven't presented a supporting reason besides your personal feeling that is leads to "pile on fest" while there is absolutely no proof of this. Providing a different method of engagement seems good to me especially if your counter viewpoint(s) have already been articulated by another member, duplicate posts are a far larger waste of time.

Also if you don’t have the time or inclination to post, perhaps your opinion is not that valuable honestly.

“Drive by” opinions if just up and down voting are of low to no value.

Putting some time in as a requirement isn’t a bad barrier at all. In fact it’s more likely to get well thought out opinions and conversation going.

I disagree and posted my thoughts on this in posts #40, #44 and #46. The member I was discussing the topic with was ok with a "thumbs up" lazy agreement and found them a good way to avoid many "me too" posts but wanted to deny others a "thumbs down" lazy disagreement when it prevents many of the same types of posts.

I will again use my example of a common HomePod story thread:

Article title: HomePods on sale $199
Post #1: HomePods are dumb
Post #2: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
My response: "thumbs down #1", "thumbs up #2"

Why should I have to post the exact same response as #2 in order to have what you deem a valuable opinion? Post #1 is lazy and trolly but we cannot say that so a simple "thumbs down" seems appropriate.

The voting system only carries the weight you put on it personally, it impacts nothing when it comes to individual members. It only impacts a users reaction score, which again carries no weight other than what you assign to it personally.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I fail to see why it is unnecessary

It’s sort of hard to prove that any of this necessary (or unnecessary)
These are subjective opinions.

I guess, to try and wrap a bow on this — What I would say about likes/leading possibly leading to “piling on” is that it’s impossible for it to lead to piling on if you can’t even see it to begin with.

When a user is disagreeing with something, for instance, I think the community is best served by them quoting that user and addressing that post and their comments directly with their own rebuttal as opposed to very simplistic and low effort “disliking”

I totally agree that a simple “like” can have an acknowledgment function which is useful.
No question about that.

I guess I probably have more of an issue with the disliking and negative reaction things being visible

Thank you again for the dialogue

 

[icanhazmac]

When a user is disagreeing with something, for instance, I think the community is best served by them quoting that user and addressing that post and their comments directly with their own rebuttal as opposed to very simplistic and low effort “disliking”

So based on my above example you would prefer this:

Article title: HomePods on sale $199
Post #1: HomePods are dumb
Post #2: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #3: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #4: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #5: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #6: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #7: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #8: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?

That seems really pointless to me.

Here we are having a civil discussion on a topic that we clearly disagree on and you find it appropriate for other members reading our conversation to "like" a supporting view but for some strange reason find it wrong to disagree in the same fashion?

 

[turbineseaplane]

So based on my above example you would prefer this:

Article title: HomePods on sale $199
Post #1: HomePods are dumb
Post #2: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #3: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #4: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #5: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #6: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #7: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?
Post #8: (in reply to post #1) why would you say that, have you ever used one?

That seems really pointless to me.

Here we are having a civil discussion on a topic that we clearly disagree on and you find it appropriate for other members reading our conversation to "like" a supporting view but for some strange reason find it wrong to disagree in the same fashion?

No I don’t prefer that…

But, I also don’t think that a whole bunch of dislikes on the first post is any more useful, and certainly doesn’t cultivate a positive or constructive discussion space.

Ultimately I prefer discussion and rebuttal that goes beyond just “disliking” something. Like I said before, this is very subjective and we clearly have different viewpoints on it.

I think we probably have worn this out.
Agree to disagree, yeah?
Cheers

 

[bpeeps]

FWIW I don’t think the laugh reaction is typically a negative one. It’s when you find something funny.

I definitely use it to laugh at someone more than laugh with, so I totally understand what the OP is saying.

 

[myrtlebee]

I have found a user whose only activity over a period of over two months has been to “thumb down” two of my posts.
I feel as if I have achieved something in my life now. 😂

Where is this thumbs down? It doesn't even appear as an option for me.

 

[C DM]

Where is this thumbs down? It doesn't even appear as an option for me.

It's only there for news article discussion threads.

 

[Partron22]

I was kind of pleased to see someone disagree with me.
He was wrong of course, but that little thumbs down was surprising and refreshing.

 

[retta283]

Personally, I don't like the idea of reactions at all. Even when it's just likes. Likes went over better here than some other places, but generally I'd rather see a response from someone than a like. Tell me why you like/dislike what I had to say, give your thoughts. Likes I always just saw as feeding into people's ego when they get a bunch of them (less so on this site but I still notice that). That's just my opinion on that anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of people who are fine with them.

Disliking/laugh emojis become a major problem to me when certain members are targeted by people, automatic dislike or laugh regardless of the content of their message. It definitely has happened here already. I really don't care if people don't like another forum member, I just think it's childish and petty to follow them to every post and throw a dislike on it.

 

[LizKat]

FWIW I don’t think the laugh reaction is typically a negative one. It’s when you find something funny.

I definitely use it to laugh at someone more than laugh with, so I totally understand what the OP is saying.

I think I've used the laugh reaction contextually, same as in real life, at least in my real life with friends, where we're fine laughing at each other for making some unexpected suggestion... I'm not gonna laugh out loud WITH you if you're pitching chocco ice cream on the pizza: imma laugh at ya then because yeah, no.

 

[zakarhino]

When a user is disagreeing with something, for instance, I think the community is best served by them quoting that user and addressing that post and their comments directly with their own rebuttal as opposed to very simplistic and low effort “disliking”

I wholeheartedly agree. I think the concept of "liking" in general can encourage people to tailor their responses to threads in whatever way they think will get the most likes, which is not always for the better.

If you would allow me to be speak honestly about this forum: I think a vocal portion of this community enjoys being snarky when "disagreeing" with other people because passive aggression and condescension are seemingly the flavors of choice for many in online discourse. This is only exacerbated by like-minded individuals liking those posts and so the vicious cycle continues as more people succumb to the toxicity. They enjoy the baiting.

I can't be the only one that sees a general pattern around many of the top liked posts on a news item or thread, at least two of the top 10 can be categorized as someone giving a condescending smack down to a fellow poster. Rarely do you see a good spirited "rebuttal" as you described it or in fact a simple restraint from posting anything at all.

Generally speaking, my experience with forums is that without reactions you can sometimes boost the quality of posts across the board because people have one less thing to concern themselves with other than adding something useful, polite, funny, or helpful to the conversation.

As for me, I try my best not to let reactions influence my behavior but it can be hard not to find it frustrating to see how it can affect the forum discourse.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I can't be the only one that sees a general pattern around many of the top liked posts on a news item or thread, at least two of the top 10 can be categorized as someone giving a condescending smack down to a fellow poster.

this is so true...particularly the snarky “but Apple is doomed” and “sold out product, clearly Apple doesn’t know what they are doing!” posts which are low effort, subtle reverse trolling and often totally missing relevant data to make an informed comment on the subject.

 

[C DM]

this is so true...particularly the snarky “but Apple is doomed” and “sold out product, clearly Apple doesn’t know what they are doing!” posts which are low effort, subtle reverse trolling and often totally missing relevant data to make an informed comment on the subject.

Seems like something of that nature would likely fall under the category of "frivolous posts" in the "Things Not to Do" section of Forum Rules:

Forum Rules

Jump to: Instantly Bannable Offenses | Advertising/Self-promotion | Things Not to Do | Minor Problems The following rules govern use of the forums. You are also responsible for observing the Regist...

macrumors.zendesk.com

 

[Ethosik]

I don't think thumbs down is beneficial anywhere. Even on YouTube. People thumbs down the video with no context as to why. Some people might just have enemies that just go out of their way to thumbs down a video just because of the person in the video or something.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Seems like something of that nature would likely fall under the category of "frivolous posts" in the "Things Not to Do" section of Forum Rules:

Forum Rules

Jump to: Instantly Bannable Offenses | Advertising/Self-promotion | Things Not to Do | Minor Problems The following rules govern use of the forums. You are also responsible for observing the Regist...

macrumors.zendesk.com

You’d think...

yet without fail this posts end up as “most liked” and part of the pile in culture around here at times

 

[C DM]

You’d think...

yet without fail this posts end up as “most liked” and part of the pile in culture around here at times

That can potentially depend on whether or not those posts get reported.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I don't think thumbs down is beneficial anywhere. Even on YouTube. People thumbs down the video with no context as to why. Some people might just have enemies that just go out of their way to thumbs down a video just because of the person in the video or something.

that “enemies” thing is spot on...

It’d be so refreshing to work back towards a place of disagreement with a rebuttal, or simply not saying anything at all, instead of people just effortlessly “disliking”

 

[Ethosik]

that “enemies” thing is spot on...

It’d be so refreshing to work back towards a place of disagreement with a rebuttal, or simply not saying anything at all, instead of people just effortlessly “disliking”

I agree. There is a lot of stuff I do not like. And I don't need to, we can all like different things. But I do not go around disliking all of their videos.

 

[Apple_Robert]

In my opinion, there are a lot of people who abuse the ability to use the downvote, not to mention the angry emoticon. A person could be stating undeniable fact, and oftentimes there are forum members who will downvote the post and subsequent posts from the same person. The same thing seems to happen a lot with the angry emoticon.

It gets frustrating (at times) to see said posts treated in such a manner, especially when the forum members doing such are too lazy to offer a cogent reply.

 

[joshdammit]

I think people who complain about things like a thumbs down emoji degrade the community. Every community.