Agreed. I miss the thumbs down.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I think "disagree" (thumbs down) and laugh emojis degrade this community
- Thread starter canesalato
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Agreed. I miss the thumbs down.
TBH the emojis aren't healthy at all to most forums.
They are giving a feedback without actually engaging in the conversation at all. Yes, that works for a single line post where you express an opinion, e.g. "I think the red of the new Product RED is to bright". On that like/dislike works well, because it basically acts like a poll.
As mentioned, that works for opinions (which is why they make sense on social networks which is mostly based on opinions, i.e. content to which there is no discussion like pictures).
However, the majority of the content on forums is supposed to be an argument based discussion.
Emojis don't work well on those. In fact they avoid exactly that.
What may make limited sense is a Thank You button in the help sections... but that's about it...
They are giving a feedback without actually engaging in the conversation at all. Yes, that works for a single line post where you express an opinion, e.g. "I think the red of the new Product RED is to bright". On that like/dislike works well, because it basically acts like a poll.
As mentioned, that works for opinions (which is why they make sense on social networks which is mostly based on opinions, i.e. content to which there is no discussion like pictures).
However, the majority of the content on forums is supposed to be an argument based discussion.
Emojis don't work well on those. In fact they avoid exactly that.
What may make limited sense is a Thank You button in the help sections... but that's about it...
I disagree, for many members its not laziness but rather choosing a specific manner to voice their opinion on a post. We all interact in the forum in different manners, and emojis is just one avenue.
I've used the thumbs down on a post simply to voice my disagreement and chose not to do a reply. That's my right and I'm not lazy in the forum at all. Quite the contrary.
Emjois stamped on to posts is pretty degrading imo. If you disagree with something, you should be able to explain it. Too often these indicators of social approval are used for power games than actual debate. It encourages group think and creates perverse incentives. Why take the worst part of reddit and twitter?
Why?
In RL we have many ways to communicate verbal and non-verbal, this is no different. If I want to simply convey that I don't like a post, or I like a post or I think its funny, then why do I have to explain it when all I want to do is just provide a simple and effective emoji to do so
There is a major difference...
If you disagree with someone in RL and maybe flip them the bird... who else is seing it? For how long? Who is counting how many people flipped the bird? Where is it recorded? Who might be influenced by it?
There is a major difference between psychology and sociology. And while they interfere with each other they are 2 completely different things. You're only seeing it from an individuals to individual point of view, not taking into account group dynamic.
Voicing an opinion is alright, but for a discussion board it isn't healthy to stick with opinions... it doesn't inspire a dialogue, which is what you want on a plattform such as this one.
Ever wondered why Twitter is such a toxic place? Mostly because it doesn't allow to argue due to lack of maximum characters combined with a voting culture that is mostly binary.
This entire system does not promote good quality content (how should it)...
That doesn't mean emojis are entirely bad, but they shouldn't be visible public at least. That way it takes out the group dynamic to it...
That said, MR is not the plattform where it makes a big difference. If this was a news page that stretches far into political/social/... issues it certainly would be.
That has no bearing at all. I could pick multiple locations and/or situations where it could be seen by many, and/or influenced. My point is that there are many ways to communicate in RL and I see no harm with being allowed to show my disapproval of a given post with the thumbs down.
I'm not going to disagree but I think you're conflating the issue, I've yet to see a thread full of emoji reactions but no posts. Maybe they exist but in my travels here at MR, I've yet to see that. We certainly have threads that do not illicit replies for one reason or another, but those also don't seem to incur a high amount (or any?) of emoji reactions either. As for news threads where the thumbs down only exists, is one area that tends to have a lot of posts.
Actually I see it the other way - by providing quality. We have the ability to see the most popular posts and respond to them. How can you only have an agree emoji that impacts that metric and not have a counter balance? If we're going to have a thumbs up we need a thumbs down and that's what this thread is about.
I think visibility or rather transparency of why something is up voted or down voted is a good thing - just my $.02
I agree with you. I think it is helpful to have different ways to express agreement/disagreement. If someone makes a trollish or moronic (IMO) post, I won't respond with a post to express that sentiment... first, because it is against forum rules to do that, and second, because I don't want the conversation to degrade even further. But I will down-thumb it.
When someone makes a humorous post, I want that post to remain the focal point, not my post expressing appreciation for that post. So a laugh emoji expresses my appreciation and allowing that post to stand.
Emojis allow for non-textual interaction with members of the community. IRL, we we can hear the tone of a person's voice, or see their body language in addition to hearing their words. Those other dimensions are missing with online communication. Emojis can serve as those other expressions.
Reasons I like the thumbs down, sad face, angry face, etc:
1) Per @sracer responding to moronic or obviously trolling posts, ex: an article about homepods commonly has a top 5 post that reads "homepods are dumb", ex: article about butterfly keyboard issues, a top 5 post will be "you people are all drama queens, the butterfly was a great keyboard with no issues".
2) If another member has already responded with my exact thoughts/feelings on a post. I want to register my disagreement but don't want to type the exact same thing another member has posted in response. Eliminates "me too" posts.
3) Time... sometimes I really disagree with a post but simply don't have the time to engage, I may do it later but by then #2 may apply.
4) Some members simply don't want to engage but still want their opinion seen. Perhaps language is a barrier and posting a well thought out reply isn't something they feel comfortable doing because their english is not great.
5) Per @maflynn having different methods of communication are effective and useful.
Negative reactions to posts do not mean anything on MR and have no negative impact on members. If you triggered by emoji responses then simply don't use them or look at them, pretty simple. Frowny faces do not make a forum toxic, the weight and importance you place on them does. I have never looked at a thread or post and said WOW, all these angry faces make me want to leave MR as it is too toxic, that's just silly. Words make a forum toxic, not emojis.
1) Per @sracer responding to moronic or obviously trolling posts, ex: an article about homepods commonly has a top 5 post that reads "homepods are dumb", ex: article about butterfly keyboard issues, a top 5 post will be "you people are all drama queens, the butterfly was a great keyboard with no issues".
2) If another member has already responded with my exact thoughts/feelings on a post. I want to register my disagreement but don't want to type the exact same thing another member has posted in response. Eliminates "me too" posts.
3) Time... sometimes I really disagree with a post but simply don't have the time to engage, I may do it later but by then #2 may apply.
4) Some members simply don't want to engage but still want their opinion seen. Perhaps language is a barrier and posting a well thought out reply isn't something they feel comfortable doing because their english is not great.
5) Per @maflynn having different methods of communication are effective and useful.
Negative reactions to posts do not mean anything on MR and have no negative impact on members. If you triggered by emoji responses then simply don't use them or look at them, pretty simple. Frowny faces do not make a forum toxic, the weight and importance you place on them does. I have never looked at a thread or post and said WOW, all these angry faces make me want to leave MR as it is too toxic, that's just silly. Words make a forum toxic, not emojis.
Last edited:
While I agree with the like emoji - I use it frequently to do just that: "I agree with your post and would have said the same thing."
The thumbs down emoji - doesn't that negate -1 from your reaction score?
I find thumbs down on the few posts that I've received them - I'm left wondering: "Well why? What don't you agree with?" - Frustrating to me. I also see people using thumbs down on forum members they don't like - even for simple statements just because.
It's a bit more of a chore now to see - how many thumbs down, thumbs up, laughs a post has. Would be nice to see without having to move my mouse over something - whereas before one could just see how many thumbs up a post had. ---- Obviously this only counts for the news posts so it's not a great inconvenience and doesn't bother me all that much.
That is an excellent rebuttal. And yet, that isn’t allowed, because it doesn’t really add any conversational value to a post or thread, and can end up cluttering the forum with single word posts. At the same time, thumbs down is allowed even though it doesn’t add any conversational value to a post nor does it explain to the OP or those reading why someone disagreed. And all that is left is a thumbs down with no inherent value.
Seems rather hypocritical to me.
Seems like there are some differences involved:
Downvoting - More cons than pros
Pros: Controversial / Inflammatory comments get downvoted off the article page. Without it, the same comments can get voted up, but never voted down.
forums.macrumors.com
Biggest change I'd like to see is:
How to see the ups and downs without having to click twice (to open and then close)? When I'm speed reading through a forum the last thing I wanna do is click twice to see who has upped and downed this. lol.
I know, minor inconvenience.
How to see the ups and downs without having to click twice (to open and then close)? When I'm speed reading through a forum the last thing I wanna do is click twice to see who has upped and downed this. lol.
I know, minor inconvenience.
This isn't entirely accurate. Some single worded posts are allowed, so if you're answering a question as I did above its permitted.
I think that the "disagree" button does little by way of positive contribution to the site - to my mind, it allows for lazy, negative, disparaging engagement - and much by way of facilitating a negative atmosphere and tone on the site.
Exactly how does saying "I disagree" via an emoji equate to disparaging engagement? Why can't it be a simple disagreement via pictoral representation?
I could not disagree (via thumbs down) with your post so I gave it an angry face as a way to say "I disagree", does that make me lazy? Does that mean I have disparaged you? I have offered my opinions in posts #40, 44, 46, 51, 57, 91, 93, 105, 107, 109, 125, 127, 131, 133 and 159, does that work for you or do I need to type them all over again so that I can positively contribute to your standards?
Again, MR members need to actively seek out information on the emoji votes, if you don't like them don't look at them, they are tiny and unobtusive. Outside of PRSI, or threads that get moved there because of responses, I normally see positive voting far outweighs any negative votes unless someone is intentionally trolling or posted something moronic.
I guess I see it both ways. I don’t use the ‘thumbs down’ or the ‘ha ha’ emoji for negative context. If I disagree with you, I’m going to tell you exactly why I disagree with you. I’ve never used the ‘downvote’ button since it’s been implemented on this site, and I never will, I just skip over somebody’s post if it doesn’t have any value worth replying to.
I think the thumbs down does not necessarily degrade this site, however; We’re living in different times now where people express themselves through emoticons. But for me, I’ll go the extra mile and tell you exactly why I don’t like your post or why I disagree and/or why I agree for that matter. That’s the nature of discussion on a site through text, is discussion. If somebody wants to choose the short way out of it by using a ‘little thumbs down emoji’, then that’s their prerogative.
I think the thumbs down does not necessarily degrade this site, however; We’re living in different times now where people express themselves through emoticons. But for me, I’ll go the extra mile and tell you exactly why I don’t like your post or why I disagree and/or why I agree for that matter. That’s the nature of discussion on a site through text, is discussion. If somebody wants to choose the short way out of it by using a ‘little thumbs down emoji’, then that’s their prerogative.
Let's agree to disagree.
And feel free to express anger, but this is an emotion, not an argument.
My view is that the provision of such emoticons - especially the emoticons connoting negative emotions (they are called emoticons for a reason) - enables, engenders, and facilitates the development of a negative atmosphere and tone wherever it is used.
Moreover, the immediate satisfaction of clicking on something of the sort merely serves to express an emotion, and negates the necessity to write a reply.
For what it is worth, I'm old school in such matters, and far prefer words to emoticons, and yes, even though I use them myself on occasion, I do think that they are a lazy - or, at the very least, a convenient - substitute, and occasionally, excuse, for thought and speech.
Furthermore, I think that the "disagree" emoticon is unnecessary (actually, I think all emoticons are unnecessary) but the negative ones (anger, disagree, and so on) are even more unnecessary, as they contribute little to any discussion but serve to sour the tone in which such a discussion may take place.
Last edited:
I can relate to this. I think the reaction interpretations vary person to person. I generally get annoyed when someone disagrees or shows an angry face with no context, but I often tell myself to just ignore it. Much of the Internet crowd today is lazy, and these reactions allow some anonymity without much effort.
For example some people have used it to troll your posts because you’ve textually disagreed with their post. They would go back to all my other posts in the thread and intentionally throw the dislike reaction.
In some aspects throwing an emoji can be interpreted as a way of avoiding direct conflict with a person. You disagree with that person, but you don’t want to spend time to respond.
Last edited:
I am amazed at the posts that people 'dislike'. Often I am stumped at the 'laugh' responses. Some use it as a passive aggressive slight to user comments. I think I've 'dislike'ed less than 6 posts, and 'laugh'ed at about the same number. If I don't like the post, I just move on. Unless I'm a moderator, it's not my job to sanction anyone. *shrug* I was on a political blog years ago, and they ended negative opinion tags, and it weeded out the trolls. There were people that stalked posters from thread to thread, down-voting everything they posted. Some overused that. I was surprised that some left after that change. You can't keep all the people happy, so...
Probably our only choice.
I clearly stated that I used the angry face only because the thumbs down was not available to me. It was just to prove a point and not a real expression of anger directed at you or your opinion on this matter. I wish the thumbs down was available for all posts as it more acurately conveys intent. Actually based on this interaction I changed my emote to the sad face, you are correct, expressing anger wasn't appropriate and since I cannot just thumbs down disagree which would be the most accurate I will just express that I am sad that a little picture affects you so.
I'm not sure how to try and engage someone like yourself further in this conversation if you are so triggered by a tiny little red face or red thumb. Its overall presence in any post is really insignificant and requires the member to click to see any further information on how many negatives exist and who left them. Seriously, look at your post #167, blue smiley, red heart, red frowny face... your view is the entire post is reduced to laziness and a negative atmosphere all because of that one tiny little collection of pixels?
You really avoided my comment about members, like myself, that both emote and reply. Your posts and opinions on emoting seem to indicate that you feel that everyone who emotes never bothers to comment. While I acknowledge that some people do emote only there are members that do both. I stand by my feeling that I should be able to emote disagreement with a post without directly replying as I may have already addressed all of those points in a previous post.
I will also acknowledge that there are members that simply troll other members by immediately disagreeing with any post they make, an unfortunate evil that we tolerate for the ability to express ourselves in multiple ways. I find the trolls are usually heavily outweighed by positive emotes and at least the voting system is public so you can very easily identify trolling emoters.
Like any other group of individuals we have members of widely varying opinions, there are times I find it useful to guage the community responses, both text and emotes, to my posts as a way to see where my thoughts and opinions fall versus the community. Some members take this really seriously and start ignoring all those that disagree with them or have different viewpoints, I don't have anyone on my ignore list as because you and I might strongly disagree on this topic, we might have similar views or insights to offer each other on other topics.
Last edited:
Very cool. See, I love this versus a simple frown, thumbs down. This is an explanation as to why you don’t agree and I enjoyed reading it. This is what makes Internet forums so great - the ability to see the opinions and thoughts of others (even if I don’t agree).
You and I agree on a lot of things - throughout my years here. While I’m not a fan of the thumbs down, I see your point, I very much enjoyed reading your opinions on it. So you get a like because of that. IMO, had it just been a frown, I would have wondered why and wished I had known. I wish all forum members did what you did.
I see your point and can see how the ability to express is something you really like. Like you, I think my ignore list is almost empty (I try to keep it empty) and I rarely thumbs down. And you’re right, the number of people I see thumbs’ing down all posts as a retaliatory measure is not widespread.
Thanks for taking the time to express your views.
An excellent, thoughtful, (temperate) and well argued post - which is why you received a "like" from me, and thank you for taking the time and trouble to craft it and write it.