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emw said:
No, "faith" is being a Cubs fan and thinking that "next year" they'll actually make the playoffs. :p
Hee-hee. Growing up in New England, "faith" was defined as believing that the Patriots could actually win the 1986 Superbowl.

.:*Robot Boy*:. said:
I wonder if they have crappy movies on other planets too.
You betcha - they're about these things called "humans" that have an unnerving tendency to destroy and overpollute everything they touch.

Hey, when I was little (like 4 years old) waaaay back in 1976, our family was on the porch of our house and a cone of white light appeared behind some trees (cue "X-Files" music here) in the woods next to our house. It was eerily quiet (even the crickets and other night-creatures stopped making noises) and the light was coming straight down from the sky. No noise - it wasn't a helecopter or anything flying that was putting down a spotlight. It stayed that way for 10-15 minutes and then disappeared as suddenly as it appeared. After that, all the usual "nighttime" sounds came back (frogs, crickets, etc...). I was a believer from that time onward, and still remember the experience as clear as a bell today. Mom and I still talk about it from time to time...

I actually did see a ghost (with two other people) in college, too, but that's a topic for a different thread.
 
Music_Producer said:
Nothing can explain that huge bright light..if I was a religious person I would probably have said "God shone His light down upon me! I am blessed!" because that light was humongous..

I can't attach the pic here for some reason (gives me some sort of error) so I am giving you a link to my website where I posted it:

http://www.vishaljrecords.com/mac.html

There will always be people who will try and rationalize something like this, and I am one of them! But what I saw last night, just doesn't fit into any category at all.

looks familiar?
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-092305rocket-pg,0,1363540.photogallery?coll=la-tot-promo

sorry to burst the bubble, but it WAS the rocket.
of course this could just be a military cover-up... :rolleyes:

below: LAtimes image of minotaur rocket on left, UFO (now IFO) on right
 

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Toreador93 said:
Here are a couple things that seem to travel faster than light:

http://www.cebaf.gov/news/internet/1997/spooky.html
I think these are the same folks working on the "teleporter" experiment - they managed to "beam" a photon across some short distance.

There's also a group over at Berkeley working on FTL speeds - can't remember more than some general discovery about beaming light in a vacuum with certain inert gasses and conditions and having the light reach the end of the chamber before it entered.
 
FoxyKaye said:
I think these are the same folks working on the "teleporter" experiment - they managed to "beam" a photon across some short distance.

There's also a group over at Berkeley working on FTL speeds - can't remember more than some general discovery about beaming light in a vacuum with certain inert gasses and conditions and having the light reach the end of the chamber before it entered.

It's actually a quantum effect in which a split photon's "twin" reacts at the same time the initial one does, regardless of their distance apart. Interesting, but still not violating the law of information not being able to travel faster than light.
 
jayscheuerle said:
Right, and monkeys could fly out of my butt.

The point is that there are a whole lot of maybes, mights and coulds, but we also have repeatedly viewed and confirmed laws of physics that have NEVER been broken (which is why we call them laws). Information moving faster than the speed of light is one of these. Skip the theoretical wormholes and hyper-drives, if something is coming here, it's traveling a VERY LONG DISTANCE. If you're going to make modes of transportation up, why not just let them get "beamed" here, like in Star Trek? Why not let them be completely invisible to us? Why not have them.... look just like us... take over our bodies... from pods...

Seriously, why is it easier to believe that an alien being travelled billions of miles to annoy some Earthlings than it is to believe in worldwide hallucinations or 50 cameras all recording something that was never there. At least you can put odds on the chances of stuff like that happening. People can believe that everyone on Earth having a simultaneous identical hallucination is impossible, but are willing to accept that another planetary creature has involved culture and intelligence and manufacturing ability and space-faring capabilities and physical-law circumventing technology and THEN picked out our little planet on the rim of the Milky Way to visit purely for the purpose of creating havoc and speculation? Huh? That boggles the mind...
Go educate yourself on the Ufo phenomena, you may want to start with one of our own Astronauts like Gordy Cooper, or you may want to look at some military stuff thats been documented, Belgium airforce F-16s had some nice radar on some unknowns . Just because we the monkey primitives havent done it doesnt mean squat. we havent even been flying 100 years yet......please. Do some research instead of spewing spin.
 
Don't panic said:
looks familiar?
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-092305rocket-pg,0,1363540.photogallery?coll=la-tot-promo

sorry to burst the bubble, but it WAS the rocket.
of course this could just be a military cover-up... :rolleyes:

below: LAtimes image of minotaur rocket on left, UFO (now IFO) on right

LOL yes, thats 100% identical. Weird though, that the pic on the left shows its still dusk, and mine is at night. So it was the rocket, ah well and I thought it was a UFO looking to check out the ipod nano!
 
Dont Hurt Me said:
Go educate yourself on the Ufo phenomena, you may want to start with one of our own Astronauts like Gordy Cooper, or you may want to look at some military stuff thats been documented, Belgian airforce F-16s had some nice radar on some unknowns . Just because we the monkey primitives havent done it doesnt mean squat. we havent even been flying 100 years yet......please. Do some research instead of spewing spin.

I've done enough research not to believe in being visited by aliens or flying saucers. If you want to believe, knock yourself out.

I have no problem with UFOs. It's when the U changes to an I and critical thinking goes out the window that makes me shake my head. People jump to silly conclusions. A man's gotta know when to live by his sig..
 
History Channel has a UFO show on tonight on UFO Hot Spots. interviews with air traffic controlers, other kinds of people like the military. Its where ill be at 8pm eastern :)
 
jayscheuerle said:
The point is that there are a whole lot of maybes, mights and coulds, but we also have repeatedly viewed and confirmed laws of physics that have NEVER been broken (which is why we call them laws).
Dude, I agree with most of your stuff but you don't have to narrow down the possibilities so much just because there are "rules" that prevent us from doing this or that.
First of all, they are still called rules today because no one has refuted them yet. Newton's Laws are what, 300 years old? Who knows what science will reveal in 300 more years. I know it is very unlikely that the most basic principles of physics are wrong (simply because there are a myriad of devices and technologies built upon these principles and they "seem" to work), but you never know, right? For instance, don't you think it's fishy that classical mechanics do not apply to atoms? I think there could be something there that scientists are missing, potentially a rule breaker.
And secondly, our current knowledge of the universe is probably about 0.000013% (this is not a fact, just my guess). Maybe later on we will identify new rules that could allow us to travel enourmous distances without resorting to actual movement (thus we wouldn't be breaking the universe's speed limit) or something like that. You could say it is very unlikely, but not that it is impossible.

Music_Producer said:
I can't attach the pic here for some reason (gives me some sort of error) so I am giving you a link to my website where I posted it:

Well that would've been cool to watch, no doubt. "Just a rocket" is a perfectly good description for it though.
 
jayscheuerle said:
I've done enough research not to believe in being visited by aliens or flying saucers. If you want to believe, knock yourself out.

I have no problem with UFOs. It's when the U changes to an I and critical thinking goes out the window that makes me shake my head. People jump to silly conclusions. A man's gotta know when to live by his sig..
No offense, but you seem like you'd disagree with someone if they said the sky was blue. So far, I have yet to see you accept any other opinion or idea beside your own; which is not surprising, as you repeadedly say if we cannot prove it, it must not exist.

100 years ago, we could not prove that information could be carried across phonelines, and then later be retrieved by a device that would show an image on a screen. Today, we prove that every minute on the internet (those with dialup , anyway).

My point being: Just because we cannot prove the existence of something does not mean it does not exist. There are billions of things, extraterrestrial or not, that we have yet to prove simply because we have not yet developed the technology that will allow us to do so.

The chance of other life existing beyond our planet, beyond our solar system, it not just probable - it's very high. To think that we are the only planet with life is not only foolish, it's rather arrogant.

Life does exist elsewhere; some more intelligent than us, others far more primative. Today, the public cannot "prove" that life exists in far away galaxies...but equally, you cannot prove it does not. You cannot claim life does not exist elsewhere anymore than I can claim it does. Proof of evidence sides with neither party (believers vs. unbelievers) on this issue; statistics however do side with those who believe.

Now you are correct in bringing up the vast distances between galaxies, and the amount of time it would require to get from one far away to ours. But have you considered the (most likely) possibility that their means of travel are nothing like ours?

Even if there is no device that can go faster than the speed of light (just because we haven't built it doesn't mean another species has not), you can still get from point A to point B faster than the mere speed allows; you do that by bringing point A closer to point B.

Modern research has shone light on the possibility of folding space, thus bringing one point closer to another.

You have to realize that we as humans are very young in the universe, and just because WE cannot prove something exists does not mean it does not. If WE cannot travell from one galaxy to another does not mean something else cannot.

If we as humans are to follow the principles you base your claims on, we'd still be hunting elk with slingshots and rocks. If we are to accept that nothing more can exist because we have not discovered it, or because we lack the means to, that it is not possible than nothing is possible.

Critical thinking does not mean disbelieving until proven otherwise. It means not knowing one way or the other until enough proof allows one to do so. There is not ONE bit of evidence that shows life is unlikely elsewhere, or that travel is unlikely from one galaxy to another - so why be so quick to assume it does not or cannot?
 
Anyone ever hear of the famous case of Trindade Island? 47 witnesses, and photography documentation. They were on a geological survey ship charting islands. Debunk this one my skeptics. :cool:
 
Josh said:
No offense, but you seem like you'd disagree with someone if they said the sky was blue. So far, I have yet to see you accept any other opinion or idea beside your own; which is not surprising, as you repeadedly say if we cannot prove it, it must not exist.

100 years ago, we could not prove that information could be carried across phonelines, and then later be retrieved by a device that would show an image on a screen. Today, we prove that every minute on the internet (those with dialup , anyway).

My point being: Just because we cannot prove the existence of something does not mean it does not exist. There are billions of things, extraterrestrial or not, that we have yet to prove simply because we have not yet developed the technology that will allow us to do so.

The chance of other life existing beyond our planet, beyond our solar system, it not just probable - it's very high. To think that we are the only planet with life is not only foolish, it's rather arrogant.

Life does exist elsewhere; some more intelligent than us, others far more primative. Today, the public cannot "prove" that life exists in far away galaxies...but equally, you cannot prove it does not. You cannot claim life does not exist elsewhere anymore than I can claim it does. Proof of evidence sides with neither party (believers vs. unbelievers) on this issue; statistics however do side with those who believe.

Now you are correct in bringing up the vast distances between galaxies, and the amount of time it would require to get from one far away to ours. But have you considered the (most likely) possibility that their means of travel are nothing like ours?

Even if there is no device that can go faster than the speed of light (just because we haven't built it doesn't mean another species has not), you can still get from point A to point B faster than the mere speed allows; you do that by bringing point A closer to point B.

Modern research has shone light on the possibility of folding space, thus bringing one point closer to another.

You have to realize that we as humans are very young in the universe, and just because WE cannot prove something exists does not mean it does not. If WE cannot travell from one galaxy to another does not mean something else cannot.

If we as humans are to follow the principles you base your claims on, we'd still be hunting elk with slingshots and rocks. If we are to accept that nothing more can exist because we have not discovered it, or because we lack the means to, that it is not possible than nothing is possible.

Critical thinking does not mean disbelieving until proven otherwise. It means not knowing one way or the other until enough proof allows one to do so. There is not ONE bit of evidence that shows life is unlikely elsewhere, or that travel is unlikely from one galaxy to another - so why be so quick to assume it does not or cannot?

You've obviously misinterpreted my position. The burden of proof is in the hands of those making claims which go against what we "know". (Try to disprove the existence of Santa Claus). There is no way to disprove conjecture. Opinions are like ******s, right? Everybody has them, but "ideas", in order to be considered seriously at all, need to be more than a device in a science fiction story. With no science behind them, they are worthless.

It's not that if we can't prove something, it doesn't exist. It's simply that if we can't prove something, there's no proof that it exists. Big difference there. I can't claim life doesn't exist on other planets (I think it does), but for you to claim it does, it's up to you to provide proof, not me to disprove you. "Life does exist elsewhere; some more intelligent than us, others far more primative." You must have proof to make such assured statements like that. Preface it with "I believe" and you'll avoid that burden. There's lots of things we will never know. Folding space and bringing A closer to B is mathematically possible, but has not been proven to have happened so far. Besides, the only things that scientists consider even possible to send through wormholes are subatomic particles at this point. The energy required to keep a wormhole open is considered to be enormous.

Science is driven by forward thinking, being moved by the unknown, wanting to do that which hasn't been done and figuring out how to do it.
 
Dont Hurt Me said:
Anyone ever hear of the famous case of Trindade Island? 47 witnesses, and photography documentation. They were on a geological survey ship charting islands. Debunk this one my skeptics. :cool:

Well I can't debunk that specifically since I don't know the facts, but here is a hypothetical situation:
- It was a rocket or craft similar to the one on this thread.
- There were 47 people there to watch instead of one.
- None of the 47 people had ever seen a rocket/craft such as that one so they assumed it was an alien spaceship (which is the logical thing to do lol, maybe it was something even more fascinating, but no, if its in the air and it can't be identified then it HAS to be an alien ship ;) )
- The people responsible for the launch thought it was funny so they didn't take the time to explain what it was.

Now, I am not saying I would never believe in UFO's, I just think the current evidence is weak at best. Human vision is very limited, a photograph or even a video is useless IMHO unless it shows the ship up close. Can you tell the difference from a tree and a lampost that are several hundred yards away? No, then how can people claim that they are sure what something was when that something was so far away and up in the sky? :D
 
floyde said:
Well I can't debunk that specifically since I don't know the facts, but here is a hypothetical situation:
- It was a rocket or craft similar to the one on this thread.
- There were 47 people there to watch instead of one.
- None of the 47 people had ever seen a rocket/craft such as that one so they assumed it was an alien spaceship (which is the logical thing to do lol, maybe it was something even more fascinating, but no, if its in the air and it can't be identified then it HAS to be an alien ship ;) )
- The people responsible for the launch thought it was funny so they didn't take the time to explain what it was.

Now, I am not saying I would never believe in UFO's, I just think the current evidence is weak at best. Human vision is very limited, a photograph or even a video is useless IMHO unless it shows the ship up close. Can you tell the difference from a tree and a lampost that are several hundred yards away? No, then how can people claim that they are sure what something was when that something was so far away and up in the sky? :D
It was no rocket the pictures are clear about that.
 
Dont Hurt Me said:
It was no rocket the pictures are clear about that.

Ok, fair enough. I have not seen this evidence, but let's consider the next hypothetical situation :) :
- The pictures and videos are not frauds and the witnesses are not conspiring in order to make a profit selling UFO books, and they didn't lie just to be on TV (or whatever).
- Respectable scientists all over the world agree that the movement of the objects in the videos does not abide by the laws of physics, and that this impression is not caused by distortion on the camera lens, improper developing of the film, and whatnot. The scientists conclude that whatever it was it wasn't man made (since man made stuff usually abides by the laws of physics)
- Further investigations reveal more weird phenomena such as magnetic fields around the area, etc.

How does this prove that we have been visited by aliens? There were shiny objects flying around in a weird way, but that doesn't mean it was an alien spaceship or does it? There's definately something here that is worth investigating, but why do people jump to such a conclusion when all they could see was a lightball swirling around?
 
floyde said:
Ok, fair enough. I have not seen this evidence, but let's consider the next hypothetical situation :) :
- The pictures and videos are not frauds and the witnesses are not conspiring in order to make a profit selling UFO books, and they didn't lie just to be on TV (or whatever).
- Respectable scientists all over the world agree that the movement of the objects in the videos does not abide by the laws of physics, and that this impression is not caused by distortion on the camera lens, improper developing of the film, and whatnot. The scientists conclude that whatever it was it wasn't man made (since man made stuff usually abides by the laws of physics)
- Further investigations reveal more weird phenomena such as magnetic fields around the area, etc.

How does this prove that we have been visited by aliens? There were shiny objects flying around in a weird way, but that doesn't mean it was an alien spaceship or does it? There's definately something here that is worth investigating, but why do people jump to such a conclusion when all they could see was a lightball swirling around?
Enjoyed your post, very much agree. Such sightings are interesting and should be studied but there are many potential reasons of what these object might be. As an educated guess I would think that chance that these displays are caused by some natural processes that we do not understand or currently misunderstand is far greater than the likliness that we've been visited by aliens. I believe this because there is still a great deal we do not understand about the natural world and there are great obstacles involved in traveling such distances through space - at least for carbon-based lifeforms like we're familiar with.

I think the biggest reason for arguments such as these is humans don't like to be left hanging. We want a conclusion - a definitive answer to a question, a solution to a problem. Often times one cannot be ascertained due to a lack of information. Therefore, we jump to conclusions. This is mere speculation. I think this is the case with UFO sightings.

Personally, I don't think we've been visited by aliens. I have reasons for this belief, which I could enumerate, but I cannot prove we haven't been visited by aliens. In the same respect those that do believe creatures from another world have visited us do not have conclusive evidence that we’ve been visited. The truth is we just don't know.

It's analogous to the debates that occur about religion and god... you can't prove or disprove anything because when it comes to a phenomenon that we can't explain the person making the claim can always rebuttal with "well they must (could) have a technology that is beyond our comprehension" - the fact that they could is true, the fact that they must is false. The same thing happens with god. People say "that's not possible" and the believers say "but our god is omnipotent, so it is possible"... then they end up arguing god's will and intentions – that’s a real blast and even less rational than debating god's abilities. At the end of the day, it's all conjecture and speculation until we get more info.
 
Music_Producer said:
Seriously, I'm friggin freaked out right now.. I mean, I am a really logical person and I tried every possible explanation.. but nothing fits. At approximately 8.20 pm in Hesperia, California.. I saw this bright light in the sky. You know one of those huge flashlights that you can get at home depot.. the yellow ones? Huge circle of light.. would swirl around real slow. I stopped the car, looked at it.. wasn't a chopper for sure.. that light was HUGE!!! I tried to think, maybe a sea harrier jet? Yeah sure, in hesperia.. well we do have Edwards air force base nearby but no.. that light was so big I mean, and it was far away so it had to be a bloody big thing.

After a few swirls, it just disappeared, like someone switched it off!!! :eek: What the heck?!!!! I'm gonna stay out tonight with my digi cam and hopefully get some pix (if it comes back) anyone had that experience before? I mean I've seen it on tv and I always thought it was all hogwash.. but nothing, and I mean nothing can explain what I just saw.


laaay offffff thhhheeeeee weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddd :D
 
Well, given the evidence, I'd say that there are alien life forms out there that have surpassed our technology so much that it allows them to travel as far as millions of light years to visit us. In fact, I'd say there exists even more advanced aliens than the aforementioned ones since the evidenced also suggests that those who visited were just the juvinile aliens.

Why?

Because any aliens dumb enough to travel that far on that kind of technology and only be interested in burning a few doughnuts in some farmer's cornfield, followed by a few anal probings of the same kind of people I see on COPS and Jerry Springer, were obviously the youngins.

:cool:
 
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