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@Rivanov has a very valid point, and based on some of the responses, it seems to be misunderstood. Some folks WILL be disappointed with the goggle-effect, if they are taking the marketing material at face-value. Does this mean that they will be dissatisfied and return it? Does it mean that folks will release reviews bashing it? All of this is possible, but it does NOT mean that the AVP will necessarily disappoint you. If you have no experience of wearing a VR headset, you have no idea how you are going feel about the FOV of the AVP. My first VR experience was in a Microsoft Store, and on an HTC Vive with an experience called Big Blue. In this experience you are underwater on the bow of a sunken ship, where the google-effect actually helps with immersion. However, playing a game like Star Wars Squadrons where you are in the cockpit of a star fighter, the FOV feels limiting as you have to move your head around a lot more. Even then, you eventually get used to the limitation imposed by the FOV, and just enjoy the experience.

So, yes some folks will be disappointed, but yes they will get used to it if they give it some time. Then, some folks just won't like it and will return it, just like with every other MR/VR headset. The only way to have an FOV that is imperceptible from your normal vision, is to have a screen that can wrap around, above and extend into and beyond your peripheral vision. Then there would be zero goggle-effect :)
 
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This will disappoint a lot of people that have never experienced VR before. The marketing video's and YouTube reviews doesn't show what you really are seeing. When the PSVR 2 launched I was also extremely hyped by all the YouTube videos... this was my first VR experience and I was immediately very disappointed the moment I put the glasses on for the first time. The narrow FOV (look through goggles) was something I could never get used to.

And I think a lot of people that want to buy the Apple Vision Pro are getting the wrong impression of what you are actually seeing.

What do you all think? :)
Like every single Apple product launch of the 2000’s, underestimating Apple is a bad idea at this point. I’m not the target market for this device and will probably never purchase one, but there’s no doubt that this may be the next phase of computing. Time will tell. All the acolytes and the doomsayers should plan on meeting in the middle. It is not as good as the acolytes believe or as bad as the doomsayers say. Enjoy the ride.
 
Apple did NOT show Vision Pro's FOV because it's a weak point. As a result, many reviewers mentioning its tunnel vision and FOV problem. Beside, FOV is the most important factor for AR/VR/MR and yet, Apple didnt even share its specs.

^^ a voice of reason
 
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Apple did NOT show Vision Pro's FOV because it's a weak point. As a result, many reviewers mentioning its tunnel vision and FOV problem. Beside, FOV is the most important factor for AR/VR/MR and yet, Apple didnt even share its specs.
Apple doesnt always share specs even when its a good thing. What matters is whether or not it works for you when you use it.
 
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Apple did NOT show Vision Pro's FOV because it's a weak point. As a result, many reviewers mentioning its tunnel vision and FOV problem. Beside, FOV is the most important factor for AR/VR/MR and yet, Apple didnt even share its specs.
How many reviews is “many”? I’ve only seen the Verge’s mention it. Have any links?
FOV is very important to a certain point and then it’s less important. Where that point is is arguable. I think it’s too rushed to make a final judgment on something based off of apparently only a very small minority of reviews that mention it, especially considering how subjective this seems to be. Maybe if there was a majority consensus from the reviews, but otherwise interested people should see for themselves.
 
How many reviews is “many”? I’ve only seen the Verge’s mention it. Have any links?
FOV is very important to a certain point and then it’s less important. Where that point is is arguable. I think it’s too rushed to make a final judgment on something based off of apparently only a very small minority of reviews that mention it, especially considering how subjective this seems to be. Maybe if there was a majority consensus from the reviews, but otherwise interested people should see for themselves.
Agree. Most/none of us have ever used VR this high end. If FOV were obnoxiously narrow, I think more people would be hammering on it by now. And I believe The Verge only showed that view because they were trying to demonstrate how much area 3D video capture can cover, but I might be wrong on that. I won't read Nilay Patel's reviews because I think he's a dingleberry.

Tomorrow is going to be interesting and amazing and fun. I'm sure we'll all be back here to say "Told you!" in some way or another. ;)
 
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So my question is how do Apple fix this in future versions? Do they need to make larger lenses that are wider and stretches to the side where your peripheral vision is? I’m a very picky person and the littlest things irk me. I will try it out but if it bothers me I’ll have to return it until Apple solves this problem.
 
It bothered me; that’s why I have a triple monitor setup on my race simulator. I can see things from the corner of my eyes, just as “in real life” instead of turning my head with VR to look left and right of me.
For sim racing, 3D kills 2D. The field of view in sim racing isn't an issue. The issue is how close to other cars you are. 3D in on line sim racing will provide a competitive advantage. A huge advantage. And the field of view is not an issue. And on line games will take advantage of 3D by allowing different field of views via the software anyway. The irony here is that real racing drivers have restricted fields of view, due to their cars, G force issues and also their helmets, and those are not light. Ignoring internet issues, 3D radically improves distance and car positioning relative to other cars.

But Apple are not in that area. The most common in numbers is the PS4, the most accurate the PC sims. They'll benefit from 3D a lot, Apple have set a standard, but Apple will never be in the on line sim racing space.
 
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So my question is how do Apple fix this in future versions? Do they need to make larger lenses that are wider and stretches to the side where your peripheral vision is? I’m a very picky person and the littlest things irk me. I will try it out but if it bothers me I’ll have to return it until Apple solves this problem.
Just change the field of view via software setting, and loose some resolution. After all, the vision is digital, its not actual. It would be simple to adjust the edges too via software, to give a lower resolution wider field of view at the edges in lower resolution. People who weear eye glasses are used to that already. John Lennon's glasses had a very restricted field of view. OK, maybe he needed ones with a wider field?

So, software upgrades and user choices.
 
Just change the field of view via software setting, and loose some resolution. After all, the vision is digital, its not actual. It would be simple to adjust the edges too via software, to give a lower resolution wider field of view at the edges in lower resolution. People who weear eye glasses are used to that already. John Lennon's glasses had a very restricted field of view. OK, maybe he needed ones with a wider field?

So, software upgrades and user choices.
That’s foveated rendering, it’s already doing that constantly in real time.


Apple has planted a flag in what they consider the minimum viable resolution for the *experience* they’re aiming to achieve. I don’t believe even a lower cost unit down the road a year or two from now is going to compromise on that resolution.

Their passthrough experience, at this resolution is what they surely consider the absolute floor of what makes this experience viable. Kind of like the transition to “retina” displays. Once you use that, anything below that becomes borderline unusable, even if you were happily using a non-retina device previously.

 
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Agree. Most/none of us have ever used VR this high end. If FOV were obnoxiously narrow, I think more people would be hammering on it by now. And I believe The Verge only showed that view because they were trying to demonstrate how much area 3D video capture can cover, but I might be wrong on that. I won't read Nilay Patel's reviews because I think he's a dingleberry.

Tomorrow is going to be interesting and amazing and fun. I'm sure we'll all be back here to say "Told you!" in some way or another. ;)
The issue won’t be tomorrows excitement, it will be 6 months from now when many (not all) people are not using a $4,000 device very often which I absolutely think is going to happen. Everyone is going to be wowed by the slick UI and ‘newness’ but unless your focus is media consumption I don’t think anyone is going to use it for more than a few hours a week in 6 months, unlike for example an XDR which would get 8+ hours most days. We’ll see.

So my question is how do Apple fix this in future versions? Do they need to make larger lenses that are wider and stretches to the side where your peripheral vision is? I’m a very picky person and the littlest things irk me. I will try it out but if it bothers me I’ll have to return it until Apple solves this problem.
I speculate that Apple can’t get the eye tracking to work at a larger FOV, and probably won’t want to. There are some Ui conveyances they could use like blurring the edges, and using foveated rendering to obscure things that are on the periphery, but the goggle effect will require some kind of screen/lens system that this first version, and almost every VR headset outside of the extremely niche ones don’t have.

They could also come up with some internal backlight/display but I don’t know how that would interact with the optics, probably not well.. something like when you see 4:3 video shown in widescreen and you have the blurred out edges, I could see them adding additional displays that in realtime match the color spectrum of what you’re looking at, so that the edges of your peripheral vision wouldn’t be black, they’d somewhat match what’s on screen. We’ll see what they do in a couple years. If they go this route I want partial credit for the idea, you heard it here first!

Just change the field of view via software setting, and loose some resolution. After all, the vision is digital, its not actual. It would be simple to adjust the edges too via software, to give a lower resolution wider field of view at the edges in lower resolution. People who weear eye glasses are used to that already. John Lennon's glasses had a very restricted field of view. OK, maybe he needed ones with a wider field?

So, software upgrades and user choices.

THe hardware as it is shipped is incapable of expanding the field of view of your eyes. Glasses don’t’ block out the outside of your focal vision, it’s just less clear around the frames. This will be black. It’s totally different and a huge issue for a Mixed Reality headset, which this is being pitched as. In reality, it’s just really good VR with a very polished UI and innovative interaction / UX coupled with great screens and pass through cameras. Mixed Reality has never been done well, and I don’t think this will be an exception to that particular aspect. Nobody wants to put a MR headset on and lose a big part of the world they were seeing, and that is inevitable with this first version.

I question if known technology can even achieve what Apple wants and expect either some breakthrough they know about that is proprietary for the next version that is causing them to ship this one now, or them hoping that an ecosystem will develop around this type of VR that will make it worthwhile for more people as prices come down, which I think is a lot less likely.


I stil think the tech is neat and I’m glad Apple is pushing it forward but am beyond shocked that this wasn’t addressed. I thought for sure they’d crack it, especially at the price point they’re asking. I still hope to try one eventually and may even get one down the road, especially if the price comes down.

However, the marketing – especially that immersion dial – is extremely misleading… and you won’t care tomorrow because the experience is going to be so novel.

But in a month or two, when you take off the headset and see how much brighter and more clear the real world is, and critically how much more your actual eyes can see of it, I think owners will begin to ask “was this really worth four thousand dollars?”.
 
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The issue won’t be tomorrows excitement, it will be 6 months from now when many (not all) people are not using a $4,000 device very often which I absolutely think is going to happen. Everyone is going to be wowed by the slick UI and ‘newness’ but unless your focus is media consumption I don’t think anyone is going to use it for more than a few hours a week in 6 months, unlike for example an XDR which would get 8+ hours most days. We’ll see.


I speculate that Apple can’t get the eye tracking to work at a larger FOV, and probably won’t want to. There are some Ui conveyances they could use like blurring the edges, and using foveated rendering to obscure things that are on the periphery, but the goggle effect will require some kind of screen/lens system that this first version, and almost every VR headset outside of the extremely niche ones don’t have.

They could also come up with some internal backlight/display but I don’t know how that would interact with the optics, probably not well.. something like when you see 4:3 video shown in widescreen and you have the blurred out edges, I could see them adding additional displays that in realtime match the color spectrum of what you’re looking at, so that the edges of your peripheral vision wouldn’t be black, they’d somewhat match what’s on screen. We’ll see what they do in a couple years. If they go this route I want partial credit for the idea, you heard it here first!



THe hardware as it is shipped is incapable of expanding the field of view of your eyes. Glasses don’t’ block out the outside of your focal vision, it’s just less clear around the frames. This will be black. It’s totally different and a huge issue for a Mixed Reality headset, which this is being pitched as. In reality, it’s just really good VR with a very polished UI and innovative interaction / UX coupled with great screens and pass through cameras. Mixed Reality has never been done well, and I don’t think this will be an exception to that particular aspect. Nobody wants to put a MR headset on and lose a big part of the world they were seeing, and that is inevitable with this first version.

I question if known technology can even achieve what Apple wants and expect either some breakthrough they know about that is proprietary for the next version that is causing them to ship this one now, or them hoping that an ecosystem will develop around this type of VR that will make it worthwhile for more people as prices come down, which I think is a lot less likely.


I stil think the tech is neat and I’m glad Apple is pushing it forward but am beyond shocked that this wasn’t addressed. I thought for sure they’d crack it, especially at the price point they’re asking. I still hope to try one eventually and may even get one down the road, especially if the price comes down.

However, the marketing – especially that immersion dial – is extremely misleading… and you won’t care tomorrow because the experience is going to be so novel… but in a month, I think you will begin to ask “was this really worth four thousand dollars?”.

I can’t believe I’ve waited all these years to have black borders! I’m just going to feel weirded out by having blackness in my periphery.

I honestly think they could’ve made the lenses little taller and wider with slight curve laterally to solve this problem. Each user will have to calibrate or crop their field of vision when first booting up since everyone peripheral vision might be different. Kind of how some PS5 games have you calibrate the outer edges of the screen so it’s not too small and not falling out of the view of the height and width of the monitor. When the calibration is complete you can see the entire picture edge to edge on the monitor.

All these years Samsung made curve tv’s which wasn’t a better viewing experience than a flat tv because we sat too far from it to get the intended benefit. We need bigger, wider curved lenses in this headset how could Apple not know this. Apple has the means to develop the tech to do this.
 
The issue won’t be tomorrows excitement, it will be 6 months from now when many (not all) people are not using a $4,000 device very often which I absolutely think is going to happen. Everyone is going to be wowed by the slick UI and ‘newness’ but unless your focus is media consumption I don’t think anyone is going to use it for more than a few hours a week in 6 months, unlike for example an XDR which would get 8+ hours most days. We’ll see.
The virtual workspace will become the most important use case imo.
 
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The issue won’t be tomorrows excitement, it will be 6 months from now when many (not all) people are not using a $4,000 device very often which I absolutely think is going to happen. Everyone is going to be wowed by the slick UI and ‘newness’ but unless your focus is media consumption I don’t think anyone is going to use it for more than a few hours a week in 6 months, unlike for example an XDR which would get 8+ hours most days. We’ll see.


I speculate that Apple can’t get the eye tracking to work at a larger FOV, and probably won’t want to. There are some Ui conveyances they could use like blurring the edges, and using foveated rendering to obscure things that are on the periphery, but the goggle effect will require some kind of screen/lens system that this first version, and almost every VR headset outside of the extremely niche ones don’t have.

They could also come up with some internal backlight/display but I don’t know how that would interact with the optics, probably not well.. something like when you see 4:3 video shown in widescreen and you have the blurred out edges, I could see them adding additional displays that in realtime match the color spectrum of what you’re looking at, so that the edges of your peripheral vision wouldn’t be black, they’d somewhat match what’s on screen. We’ll see what they do in a couple years. If they go this route I want partial credit for the idea, you heard it here first!



THe hardware as it is shipped is incapable of expanding the field of view of your eyes. Glasses don’t’ block out the outside of your focal vision, it’s just less clear around the frames. This will be black. It’s totally different and a huge issue for a Mixed Reality headset, which this is being pitched as. In reality, it’s just really good VR with a very polished UI and innovative interaction / UX coupled with great screens and pass through cameras. Mixed Reality has never been done well, and I don’t think this will be an exception to that particular aspect. Nobody wants to put a MR headset on and lose a big part of the world they were seeing, and that is inevitable with this first version.

I question if known technology can even achieve what Apple wants and expect either some breakthrough they know about that is proprietary for the next version that is causing them to ship this one now, or them hoping that an ecosystem will develop around this type of VR that will make it worthwhile for more people as prices come down, which I think is a lot less likely.


I stil think the tech is neat and I’m glad Apple is pushing it forward but am beyond shocked that this wasn’t addressed. I thought for sure they’d crack it, especially at the price point they’re asking. I still hope to try one eventually and may even get one down the road, especially if the price comes down.

However, the marketing – especially that immersion dial – is extremely misleading… and you won’t care tomorrow because the experience is going to be so novel.

But in a month or two, when you take off the headset and see how much brighter and more clear the real world is, and critically how much more your actual eyes can see of it, I think owners will begin to ask “was this really worth four thousand dollars?”.



I'm an owner of a Quest 3 and I see this happening completely. You can "afford" to have the Quest 3 sitting on your desk without being used, it's a 500$ device. But a 4000$ device? I think we're going to see a lot of buyer's remorse.


Apple has not shown the scuba diving mask effect in its promotional material, but to be honest, none of the companies show it to you (sometimes they provide FOV specs)

In 1 year they are not going to solve the FOV issue if they have been developing these for 7-8 years

I wish, but I doubt it.

The problem of extra processing power is ridiculous compared to the optical limitations.
Some headsets have a higher fov but introduce distortion

I wish AVP success, but for now I'm not sure which outcome we'll have. The worst thing that can happen is that the average consumer buys it and doesn't like, and then it will be more difficult to convince that consumer to step into VR/AR.

Hopefully in some years we will have a good XR headset, light and small. So everyone will step into XR for sure. Because although the technology is is still not here, I know 1 thing for sure. Augmented reality is MUCH better than reality. And we've just started with it, imagine in some years. Living without augmented reality will even become a handicap for your life.



The best case use scenario that I see people using a lot on the AVP is for work in an environment where you don't have privacy, like an airplane. That's awesome. And then for entertainment at home or on an airplane.
Will that be enough for the average consumer for spending 4000$? I don't think so.
And with the current state I don't see people working with AVP at home everyday. Maybe during the honeymoon period with the device, but then as it's been said, people will take it off and feel relieved
 
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The virtual workspace will become the most important use case imo.
Maybe for a future revision but not for a 650 gram entirely front-weighted headset with a horizontal FoV lower than 110 degrees. Come back in August and let’s see who’s spending all day in one of these…

There is a reason it has a 3 hour battery life imo, and it isn’t just to save on the size of that pack.

This is exactly the “tech enthusiast thinks new feature will change the way they work” part of the marketing that I’m most annoyed by, for short bursts and media consumption the Vision Pro will be awesome, for lengthy work sessions outside of possibly travel I hugely doubt it.

A 400 gram gen 2 with wider FoV and 100%+ of p3? Now we’re getting somewhere. Maybe they need to lay the foundation, or they needed what seems on paper like a killer app …because there isn’t one natively.

I’ve spent time in virtual desktops and have used VR for 12 years, better screens wouldn’t make it worthwhile for me and Apple is almost purposefully withholding VR gaming for this first generation to set it apart. It’s perplexing.

It’ll unquestionably be the best way to watch 3d movies though!
 
I'm an owner of a Quest 3 and I see this happening completely. You can "afford" to have the Quest 3 sitting on your desk without being used, it's a 500$ device. But a 4000$ device? I think we're going to see a lot of buyer's remorse.
I think we'll see a lot of buyer's remorse just from the sheer hype that's going around (in the Vision Pro world). This is, basically, a version 1.0 product. As good as it is, it's far from perfect (and is downright constraining in certain areas), and something like version 3.0 in maybe 3-5 years will make this release look undesirable.
 
52:42 minutes.

Marques talks about FOV. ;)
“It takes a couple uses before you start poking around the edges and notice how limited it is” -MKBHD on the FoV.

Direct timestamp link that agrees with my suppositions:

…exactly what I’ve been saying for pages (I’ll stop now, don’t worry). If you get one of these for the sake of your wallet use the hell out of it within the return window to make sure four thousand dollars is a justifiable cost.

For some, it totally will be. For others, and dare I say most people…
 
Exactly why I started this topic in the first place. Just to “warn” people and to make them aware not getting wrong expectations based on marketing material.
 
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Exactly why I started this topic in the first place. Just to “warn” people and to make them aware not getting wrong expectations based on marketing material.
I agree. Plus, I think this is only something people will really notice once the initial excitement wears off. Just like what Marques mentioned in the YouTube video above.
 
Yup -- a story as old as every VR/AR headset out there
The problem this time is that this headset is 3800$

I don't want to destroy anybody joy, but I strongly believe a lot of the people that today are amazed with the AVP, will be returning it in 2-3 weeks

Return period is 1 month, if novelty doesn't wear off by then, it will do eventually but they won't be able to return it so maybe they'll sell it on some website.

I really hope and want this to not happen, I want Apple to succeed but I'm not sure about if they'll do with the AVP 1
 
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