I want flash on my iPhone. The n900 has it!

[Moi un Mouton]

No, Adobe writes Flash, not Apple.

They spent years ignoring OS X, only providing software that barely worked, hogs the processor and crashes the browser. (Notice above where the Mac user complains about Farmville but the Windows 7 guy doesn't get it? That's not a coincidence. That's reality.)

Jobs noticed this and decided he didn't want to deal with Flash again on his new platform. Now Adobe is spending a LOT more time working on making Mac Flash work better. But it's too late. They already PROVED that they'll spend years letting Apple products lag behind their competitor's products if they want to.

What's to stop them from doing the same thing on phones and giving Androids good software and iPhones crappy flash? They've been doing it to Apple for years now. What makes you think they'll suddenly change?

It's too late. Treat Steve Jobs like crap and he'll stop doing business with you.

You make very good points.

I think the difference is that while Windows is dominant in the PC world, the iPhone is the Gorilla in consumer-market smartphones right now. So it's not in Adobe's interest to deliver a second-rate product into that market.

And the trouble with SJ's attitude is that it's not Adobe he hurts in his desire for revenge, as much as his own customers. I just want to get the whole internet, not only the SJ-approved bit. I don't need the great flash-wall of Apple any more that the Chinese citizens need the great fire-wall of China. Even if some people think we need big brother to protect us from such evils....

 

[mrochester]

No, Adobe writes Flash, not Apple.

They spent years ignoring OS X, only providing software that barely worked, hogs the processor and crashes the browser. (Notice above where the Mac user complains about Farmville but the Windows 7 guy doesn't get it? That's not a coincidence. That's reality.)

Jobs noticed this and decided he didn't want to deal with Flash again on his new platform. Now Adobe is spending a LOT more time working on making Mac Flash work better. But it's too late. They already PROVED that they'll spend years letting Apple products lag behind their competitor's products if they want to.

What's to stop them from doing the same thing on phones and giving Androids good software and iPhones crappy flash? They've been doing it to Apple for years now. What makes you think they'll suddenly change?

It's too late. Treat Steve Jobs like crap and he'll stop doing business with you.

Which product do you think you'd devote the most resources too? The one that targets over 90% of the worlds computer users, or the one that is less than 10%? If you made a choice to buy a Mac, you chose knowing you were buying into a system that isn't very well supported software wise. If you wanted to avoid those pitfalls, then you shouldn't have bought a Mac. For the most part, it's Apple themselves who are stopping the Mac from being anything other than a second rate eco-system because they price the vast majority of people out of their products. If they sold cheaper hardware, they'd sell an awful lot more of them, and the cost/benefit ratio of developing for the Mac would increase. Your anger towards Adobe is mislaid - you should be targetting the entity who are making the Mac remain as a sidelined product - Apple themselves. We'll chat again when Apple have a significant share of the computer market, and we'll see if the Flash plugin is still crappy or not.

Instead of buying a Mac and then whinging about the Flash plugin not working right, you should have researched your computer purchase more thoroughly beforehand. Much like people can't complain at the lack of Flash on the iPhone because they can choose to buy another device, you can't complain about the Flash plugin being crappy on the Mac when there are thousands of Windows alternatives out there which run Flash just fine.

 

[Small White Car]

You make very good points.

I think the difference is that while Windows is dominant in the PC world, the iPhone is the Gorilla in consumer-market smartphones right now. So it's not in Adobe's interest to deliver a second-rate product into that market.

And that's logical, but what Apple is being asked to do is hand over control of the iPhone's update cycle to another company.

That's a big thing.

So what is Apple going to get out of it? More sales? It's not really clear that a significant number of people are avoiding the iPhone because of its lack of Flash. If it ever becomes apparent that this is so (like, iPhone users moving to Android in large numbers) THEN your argument is something to talk about.

But at the moment your point merely exists to ask Apple to give up a lot and gain pretty much nothing of value in return. That conversation isn't going to be a long one.
So your argument makes sense IF people start leaving the iPhone for Flash-enabled phones in large numbers.

So you're right...but only in a theoretical world where iPhone sales start going down. (It COULD happen...but it hasn't yet.)

If you wanted to avoid those pitfalls, then you shouldn't have bought a Mac.

...

Your anger towards Adobe is mislaid - you should be targetting the entity who are making the Mac remain as a sidelined product - Apple themselves.

...

Instead of buying a Mac and then whinging about the Flash plugin not working right, you should have researched your computer purchase more thoroughly beforehand.

What the heck are you talking about?

I'm explaining the relationship between Steve Jobs and Adobe and why Apple is making the choices they've made.

I din't say anything about buying a Mac. I didn't say anything about how I use my computer or if I'm happy or angry with it. I didn't say anything about using Flash myself, or express any anger whatsoever towards any company.

I'm totally talking about Apple and Adobe and why they do what they do. How did my computer buying habits enter the conversation at all? I said nothing about any of the stuff you seem to be responding to.

 

[Wicked1]

Call Steve Jobs and complain

 

[226896]

If Flash is such an integral part of your web browsing experience, get a device that supports it.

It's that simple.

This.

 

[PhoneI]

You might want flash on your phone, but I want my phone to work in portrait mode. The n900 doesn't.

 

[mrochester]

What the heck are you talking about?

I'm explaining the relationship between Steve Jobs and Adobe and why Apple is making the choices they've made.

I din't say anything about buying a Mac. I didn't say anything about how I use my computer or if I'm happy or angry with it. I didn't say anything about using Flash myself, or express any anger whatsoever towards any company.

I'm totally talking about Apple and Adobe and why they do what they do. How did my computer buying habits enter the conversation at all? I said nothing about any of the stuff you seem to be responding to.

LOL, sorry if I wasn't clear. I was simply pointing out what could be the reason for the OSX Flash plugin being the way it is - Adobe are better off focussing their energies on the Windows version of Flash as that reaches the maximum number of customers. It's much the same as how game developers don't release games for the Mac because it isn't worth their while, and those that have been ported are usually poor relations in comparison to the PC version. Think of the same logic for Flash and you'll realise it's your choice of platform that's the problem, not Adobe or Flash. If you want maximum software support, you don't buy a Mac basically! And conversely, if you do buy a Mac, you do so knowing fine well it won't receive the kind of support a Windows computer will. That doesn't make Adobe bad or evil, it's just our Steve who seems to like to give that impression instead of conceding that it's his tiny worlwide computer market share that's the problem.

 

[Synthetickiller]

I bet before this who "flash drama" came about in the news, on one in either camp really gave a SH*! about flash. Now's its a hot supposedly buzz-worthy topic.

People complained about lack of flash because it is all over the web and without it, many web site experiences are lacking to say the least. Until the web truely moves away from flash... the argument from Apple is moot.

Not giving consumers options is the reason why most iPhone users I know eventually left Apple for other high end phone manufactures. Once you get past aesthetics, you're very limited software wise. Lack of flash support is proof.

 

[Small White Car]

It's much the same as how game developers don't release games for the Mac because it isn't worth their while, and those that have been ported are usually poor relations in comparison to the PC version.

The difference is that poor game performance doesn't hold up development of OS X updates. If you don't play games, it doesn't affect you.

Flash on the iPhone has the potentional to seriously disrupt Apple's planned software upgrades. Even if you don't use Flash, it will still end up affecting you.

There are some really key differences between how the Mac and the iPhone work. Sometimes analogies can only go so far before they start to break down.

 

[Revelation78]

LOL, sorry if I wasn't clear. I was simply pointing out what could be the reason for the OSX Flash plugin being the way it is - Adobe are better off focussing their energies on the Windows version of Flash as that reaches the maximum number of customers. It's much the same as how game developers don't release games for the Mac because it isn't worth their while, and those that have been ported are usually poor relations in comparison to the PC version. Think of the same logic for Flash and you'll realise it's your choice of platform that's the problem, not Adobe or Flash. If you want maximum software support, you don't buy a Mac basically! And conversely, if you do buy a Mac, you do so knowing fine well it won't receive the kind of support a Windows computer will. That doesn't make Adobe bad or evil, it's just our Steve who seems to like to give that impression instead of conceding that it's his tiny worlwide computer market share that's the problem.

Ok, I'll bite....

That's fine and dandy! Adobe chose to go after the bigger market, they said screw Apple. Now they want to develop for the iPhone and Apple said screw you Adobe. Apple, especially SJ, tried to get Adobe to develop Flash for the Mac with the same enthusiasm as they did for Windows. Adobe refused and now SJ and Apple refuse to let Adobe develop for the iPhone.

Like the old adage goes: You sleep in the bed you make.

Adobe now has to live with their decision, turning Apple down so many years ago. SJ will hold that over anyones head - so I've come to learn. It's called life.

 

[boonlar]

Ok, I'll bite....

That's fine and dandy! Adobe chose to go after the bigger market, they said screw Apple. Now they want to develop for the iPhone and Apple said screw you Adobe. Apple, especially SJ, tried to get Adobe to develop Flash for the Mac with the same enthusiasm as they did for Windows. Adobe refused and now SJ and Apple refuse to let Adobe develop for the iPhone.

Like the old adage goes: You sleep in the bed you make.

Adobe now has to live with their decision, turning Apple down so many years ago. SJ will hold that over anyones head - so I've come to learn. It's called life.

Thats not why flash sucks on OSX. It sucks because SJ will never open the system like Microsoft does. MS encourages adobe to develop for the platform and lets them use more APIs. OSX is more closed so adobe have little to work with. On my PC flash runs perfectly and I haven't seen a crash since the early 2000's. Flash 10.1 is awesome. Now my GPU can decode HD video and my CPU uses even less cycles now.

Basically it's apples fault that flash sucks on OSX.

 

[Revelation78]

Thats not why flash sucks on OSX. It sucks because SJ will never open the system like Microsoft does. MS encourages adobe to develop for the platform and lets them use more APIs. OSX is more closed so adobe have little to work with. On my PC flash runs perfectly and I haven't seen a crash since the early 2000's. Flash 10.1 is awesome. Now my GPU can decode HD video and my CPU uses even less cycles now.

Basically it's apples fault that flash sucks on OSX.

Really, is that the best you got? Go back to the 90's after SJ came back to Apple and asked Adobe to provide more support for the Mac. Back then there wasn't even a such thing as GPU encoding/decoding - your theory is flawed. Back then Adobe chose not to invest more time into Apple's products, now they are living with their decision.

You act/assume that everything took place within the last two weeks, if that were true then you'd be right, however we're talking YEARS.

P.S. I have a PC too and it does crash from flash from time to time.

 

[wirelessmacuser]

I am a senior software engineer that works in OS X, Win XP & Win 7. I find they each have their strong points. Personally I use a new MacBook Pro Core i7, as my preference is a Mac. In over five years I've never had a blue screen or crash in windows. Why? Because I have my ThinkPads highly optimized for Windows. Same with my MacBook Pro's. My mid 2009 ran flash just fine, as did my prior MacBook Pro. The ever arrogant Jobs seems to be blowing things out of whack. I sure like Apple products, but Steve's desire to spew venom is getting old. I know four year old kids that act more mature than little Stevie does.... poor little spoiled brat.