IBM Says Macs Are Up to $543 Less Expensive Than PCs Over Time

[Nefilim]

When I buy a new iMac, I always get good money for my old one. So true... In the long run Apple isn't that expensive.


Except when it comes to phones... iPhone is crazy over priced. Still by the thing though

I think that you have a good point with the iPhone price. Comparable tech has been getting cheaper, I'm not sure if Apples premium price point will work out for them any longer .

 

[smacrumon]

Looking at the design progression, the logical future step is to curve the front of the screen …

Are curved displays really useful though?
We used to have curve CRT displays, but they were the worst. Do we need curves again? Or was it last time the curve went the wrong way?

 

[apolloa]

It's not cheaper if you own a Mac that's affected with one if Apples infamous GPU or screen faults and they refuse to repair it for free!

Meh my 2010 MB Pro is still going so can't complain, may save up for the new one, not sure yet.
I've updated the ram and stuck an SSD in it, and the motherboard was changed a few years back, for free under EU consumer laws as the Genius Bar told me, because of the GPU glitch.

 

[ProjectManager101]

We never have problems with the macs, the only issue are bigs with the network sometimes you can not see a hard drive in another machine and things like that. But never the frustration of using a PC with Windows where you have no clue and the OS always feels like half way done. I do like that PCs are way faster, but Macs last for ever. I still have a 2008 Mac Pro and even a working 2004 12" Powerbook.

 

[The Mercurian]

Thank you for this story Macrumours I have enjoyed sending it to friends who blab on about the Apple Tax

 

[Moakesy]

Can easily see it would be cheaper. I'm pondering upgrading my 4 y/o MBP if I like the look of the new model, and it feels like if I did I would be extravagant. Based on my son's Windows laptops, after 4 years updating to a new machine would be essential.

A couple of days ago, my elderly neighbour asked me to look at Windows 10 laptop. It's not even a year old and had completely wiped all her software, which I had to re-install. After doing that for a number of hours, it then took 34 minutes to switch off as it installed 'essential updates'!

If that was in a work environment, where the firm would be paying hourly rates for my support and the users lost time without a machine, getting to $543 over a four year period would seem easy.

That said, my son has just started an apprenticeship working in IT Support, so maybe firms keeping Windows machines is a good idea!!

 

[smacrumon]

Mac is a slow burn. Eventually it will be the standard. Windows days are coming to a completion.

 

[franklaemmer]

Steve Jobs pointing the middle finger to IBM

 

[Bacillus]

25 years ago, who would have thought the Mac's great defender would be IBM?

Nobody.
Actually it was a crazy idea, and indeed turns out to be so.
As big corporate appreciation requires, it started with Cook shaking the hands of a IBM lady Bozo. Ooaah, they'd have such a great future (so much affinity with each other... as much as ehh, physically possible)
But Apple was clueless about entering the corporate world and thought this was the easiest entrance.
IBM was clueless about its future with MSoft which didn't follow trends such as BYOD and exuberant consumer tech (iOS and Android)
But after several years now, what did this partnership of doubt bring to the user ?
Apart from a Highschool planning app, only the lowest level of integration of iOS and large corporate systems. Bascially, iOS with a few libraries implementing IBM protocols but they will hardly be used anywhere and obliviate. Who is using iOS as a UI for large corporate MRP, dBMS, GTRP, M&I server systems ? Still separate worlds..
And now that there is little incentive and less to talk about, the mutual praise starts.
To underline wat it essentially is: boardroom bred marketing fluff.

 

[hinesmj]

90,000 Macs supported by FIVE administrators. Wow. 1300 new Macs provisioned each week by those five people? less than 10 minutes to provision each machine if they do nothing but provision new devices. That's some major assembly line economy of scale there.

This blew me away as well...maybe they meant there's five managers/VPs who are supported by many more IT staff...that just doesn't seem possible...
[doublepost=1477041434][/doublepost]

Nobody.
Actually it was a crazy idea, and indeed it still is, as it proved to be a sad story.
As big corporate appreciation requires, it started with Cook shaking the hands of a IBM lady Bozo. Ooaah, they'd have such a great future (so much affinity with each other... as much as ehh, physically possible)
But Apple was clueless about entering the corporate world and thought this was the easiest entrance.
IBM was clueless about its future with MSoft which didn't follow trends such as BYOD and exuberant consumer tech (iOS and Android)
But after several years now, what did this partnership of doubt bring to the user ?
Apart from a Highschool planning app, only the lowest level of integration of iOS and large corporate systems. Bascially, iOS with a few libraries implementing IBM protocols but they will hardly be ever used anywhere and obliviate. Who uses iOS as a UI for MRP, corp DBMS, GTRP, M&I systems ?
It's still separate worlds..
And now that there is little incentive and less to talk about, the mutual praise starts.
To underline wat it essentially is: mainly marketing fluff.

I agree...there are so many different ERP systems that mac just doesn't integrate well with. Until there's easy integration with 95% of business systems, there's no way mac is going to become the business hardware of choice...as much as I'd like it to be....

 

[ivanhoe888]

25 years ago, who would have thought the Mac's great defender would be IBM?

LOL, I remember those days..
I've had an iMac for over 6 years now, and hadn't had a single significant issue. Not one. It is getting up there with age, though, but I never had to call tech support.

 

[shaunp]

Well, let me just say I have currently a 2011 MacPro that rocks and two 2005 AC 30" displays that still awesome. The only thing I recommend is Applecare because I had issues during the first 3 years on my MP but for sure my experience with Macs are that they last longer and work very well over long periods of time.

Interesting. Of the 3 MacBook Pro's I've had, 2 of them have had GPU issues. Never had this on a PC laptop. I wouldn't say Apple's build quality is significantly better from a durability perspective. Sure they feel nice, but I always manage to break them. Apple even suggested that I had bought the wrong product because I was using it for running a lot of VM's. Genius my arse!
[doublepost=1477041847][/doublepost]

When it comes to quality hardware/software installation, it has always been Apple.

This used to be true, but not any more.

 

[Tunster]

This used to be true, but not so much anymore. Now a days, I get more calls from my friends with macs than PCs.

PLEASE READ: THIS IS MY OPINION. KEEP YOUR TROLLING AND FLAMING TO YOURSELF. MY OPINION DOES NOT REFLECT THAT OF TIM COOK, THE APPLE CULT, THE DIE HARD APPLE FANS, ANDROID FANS, OR TAYLOR SWIFT.

A small survey of your friends is hardly reflective of the reality. I'd just say they're just more computer-illiterate in general. Your T&C below doesn't stop us criticising your statement for being most likely non-reflective of the story at hand.

We all know Windows is more prone to driver failure, update failure and general failures because that OS has support millions/billions of configurations based on different hardware. Add third-party software being built on different configs and needing to juggle those millions/billions of configurations.

MacOS; there's only a handful and software stability is more likely when you can accurately test against an OS that's supported and tested against those handful of configurations.

Go figure.

 

[bostero2]

I have to say that I do see the same effects at home where my 8 yo MacBook is still performing like a beast having spent only around €100 for some new RAM to take it to 8GB from the original 4GB. While the PCs I had before that would significantly reduce their performance at about 3 to 4 years. The MacBook has a swollen battery that I have to remove to properly use the trackpad, so I'll probably have to spend another €30-€40 to have a third party battery in (though I dread the thought of a third party battery). And I can only imagine the performance boost I would get if I replace my HDD with an SSD.

God how would I love Apple to bring back a user-upgradable computer...

 

[obiwan]

In my experience, we use Macs and PCs corporately in our business. I have no idea on approximate numbers of installed Mac's vs PCs either (It's in the 1000's - so it's a lot). I've been forced to use Windows against my will for many years, but finally persuaded my manager to let me switch to a Mac. Obviously I'm biased, because after trying to get on with Windows for many years and hating it more and more (even though I've tried to give it the benefit of the doubt) I've had numerous problems with my machine (mainly software related) that have invoked support calls to IT. Since I've switched to Mac I've had none of these problems, and the only support calls I've had to raise are when my network password has expired. I think though in fairness to Windows, a lot of the reason for failure is down to the highly customised Corporate build (and locked-down) version of Windows they install on the companies PC's. If it they had a 'vanilla' version of Windows installed, I'm sure there would be less problems. By contrast, the Mac desktop is far less customised - and just has a few add on pieces of software that let you access different network resources etc. so it is much more in keeping with the standard Mac OS build. Another factor, is that it's mainly software developers who use Macs, so by the nature of their jobs are a lot more computer-savvy than other areas of the PC using business. - So that will skew the support call numbers in favour of Macs too.

 

[bostero2]

In my experience, we use Macs and PCs corporately in our business. I have no idea on approximate numbers of installed Mac's vs PCs either (It's in the 1000's - so it's a lot). I've been forced to use Windows against my will for many years, but finally persuaded my manager to let me switch to a Mac. Obviously I'm biased, because after trying to get on with Windows for many years and hating it more and more (even though I've tried to give it the benefit of the doubt) I've had numerous problems with my machine (mainly software related) that have invoked support calls to IT. Since I've switched to Mac I've had none of these problems, and the only support calls I've had to raise are when my network password has expired. I think though in fairness to Windows, a lot of the reason for failure is down to the highly customised Corporate build (and locked-down) version of Windows they install on the companies PC's. If it they had a 'vanilla' version of Windows installed, I'm sure there would be less problems. By contrast, the Mac desktop is far less customised - and just has a few add on pieces of software that let you access different network resources etc. so it is much more in keeping with the standard Mac OS build. Another factor, is that it's mainly software developers who use Macs, so by the nature of their jobs are a lot more computer-savvy than other areas of the PC using business. - So that will skew the support call numbers in favour of Macs too.

I'm a .NET developer and I have to say that in the last couple of years I did see an increase of people that choose to work on a Mac, sure you still need Visual Studio (though now Microsoft has Xamarin Studio for Mac) but we get around that with an Azure Remote Machine or Virtualization.

 

[Winni]

This article sounds like it was cribbed from 1998 to 2000 when everyone was saying how macs may cost more but IT support is much lower which saves money in the end.

It's refreshing to see it again, backed up with data from a company such as IBM.

Only that there is almost no data in this article that actually can back up any of the made claims. What has Microsoft got to do with the PC costs, for example? And are the Macs not using Microsoft software at all? And what is this comparison that PC users place support calls while the Mac users have to go through some "self-support" system?

Sorry, but there is so much information missing in this text that this whole thing just reads like an unsubstantial claim.

I run an IT department and in my company we support all client platforms (including Linux). It's the year 2016 and it's still a headache to integrate Macs into a work place. Why? Because macOS is a CONSUMER platform, not a corporate platform, and not matter what you do that has anything to do with actual business or technical needs makes it obvious that macOS is only an almost irrelevant afterthought. macOS is a third class citizen in an IT landscape, and no marketing brochure from IBM changes that fact.

If I had a software department the size of what IBM has in place, then maybe things would be a bit different - but interestingly enough, those figures are not even mentioned in that article. How much does it cost IBM to implement proper Mac support in their back-ends? Or are the Macs so much more affordable because they change the entire client software stack at the same time? As in: Everything Mac users at IBM do is purely browser-based? Now that would explain why all of a sudden there are no Microsoft license fees involved anymore. Which leads us back to the initial problem: Lack of real data in the article. With the given information, it's just marketing nonsense.

 

[Kajje]

On the other side of the equation, is that you wouldn't even have the option of enhancing a Mac to similar specs.

Want better a better GPU or CPU in your Mac??? Sorry, you're stuck with a low-end integrated GPU or slower dGPU.

Want a gaming GPU in your Mac??? Not even an option in the Mac.

So, that's the other end of the equation.

Macs are great for those with less demanding needs. But comparing a gaming computer against a Mac is like comparing a Lamborghini to a Volvo.

It is what it is, but at the office we lease Volvo's, rather than Lambo's.

 

[OllyW]

Mac is a slow burn. Eventually it will be the standard. Windows days are coming to a completion.

Slow burn?

Glaciers move at a faster pace.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

 

[MacBH928]

I am starting to wondering, since IBM quit the consumer hardware market, what do they do now? All these big companies use vague wordings like "solutions" , "cloud" , "commerce" but you never know what they really sell.

on a side note, I am starting to worry about new MBP shortages after reading this article

 

[CEmajr]

Totally agree and this is what I tell most of my friends who still use PCs. I remember the last windows laptop I bought from HP back in 2009 that cost $1400 and was supposed to be top of the line. After about a year and a half it started having major issues with wi-fi connectivity, poor battery, and heating, as well as a few other things. Of course HP didn't care since the 1 year warranty was up. By 2011 I had given up on it and funny enough it only fetched about $300 on the used market. $1400 to $300 in just two years.

Now I have a 2011 MBP which I bought used for $700 that still works well here in 2016. No constant antivirus crap, it just works. Resale value-wise I still see them selling around $700 on eBay with these specs. A 5 year old machine. There's just no comparison. I'll never buy another Windows computer.

 

[Blackstick]

Well, that's true for PC's as well. There may be newer models, but you certainly aren't going to get much of an upgrade like in pre-2005 era.

I'm speculating though that the main reason it costs more to maintain PCs is because most legacy apps (pre-20015) are all written for PCs, whereas Macs are just mainly used for web-browsing, etc.
[doublepost=1477023697][/doublepost]

Just out curiosity, so how many of help requests are OS related, as opposed to, legacy apps related requests running on MacOS (probably none given there is no app written for Mac) and Win?

For the Macs, roughly 2800 of the requests are for support with Microsoft Office apps (mainly Lync 2011- garbage, Skype for Business preview, and of course Outlook 2011 and 2016). The remainder is requests for app installs, decryption, firewall exemptions, antivirus issues and a small amount, perhaps 50 were for Mac hardware-related issues of some kind.

For PCs, greater than 2/3rds of the issues were for software problems of various kind be them OS, Office, legacy apps or development tools not agreeing with corp-required applications. The hardware repair rate is higher on the Dell Latitudes than the Surfaces per unit, and they frequently have cooling issues involving heat sinks or fans that never stop running and stealing away battery life.

Our users are switching to Mac in droves, whenever their work tools permit it. Obviously developers on the Microsoft stack or financial people working with 15 year-old Windows apps cannot easily switch, but many teams that can are - and relying on any Windows need in virtualized environments of various types. Our goal is to be under 50% Windows use across the org by 2018 and we're exceeding our forecasted guidance.

 

[lowendlinux]

This really isn't surprising

 

[NachoGrande]

If your PC is so wonderful after 9 years why on earth would you buy a new mac every 3 years?

Because I needed them to develop apps.. Which, is no longer the case. I also used to enjoy them.. The idea that it takes a major risk to upgrade your hard drive is ridiculous.
[doublepost=1477045642][/doublepost]

I've had a PC for 45 years, and using it gives me nonstop orgasms. I have to replace my Mac every nine seconds because each and every one starts a nuclear war that kills all mankind.

The comedic styling of Puiz, everybody....

 

[Kebabselector]

But still there is no vMware sphere , nor there is an alternative , one must have a pc at hand

Does the web client work? VMware has being pushing functionallity to the web client for a while now. Version 6 of the Vsphere client is lacking in features and they are actively forcing the use of the web console.