iBook G4 cooling?

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by sorgo, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. sorgo macrumors member

    sorgo

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    #1
    Hey everyone! I'm pretty new here, and I have a question to ask you all, specifically those of you who have experience with the iBook G4 (even more specifically, the 12" mid-2005). During the holidays my sister gave me a 12" iBook G4 that she found discarded/forgotten in a cupboard at her old workplace (a public school). Since then I have been having a blast: I increased the RAM from 512MB to 1.5GB, installed a fresh battery, upgraded the old 40GB hard drive to a 120GB IDE SSD, replaced the fan, replaced the display, and acquired a Mighty Mouse. I'm in iBook heaven.

    As wonderful as this little computer is, however, I still have one major concern: Heat. Specifically that generated almost incessantly by the iBook. I purchased a copy of G4FanControl and that has been slick and effective, but I really desire something less remedial and more permanent/to-the-point, such as the mutilation underscored in this article).

    Does a cooling mod seem worthwhile here? How difficult would this be (particularly for a noob)?

    Thanks for your time.
     
  2. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    May 28, 2006
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    Manchester, UK
    #2
    Apple do tend to run their laptops hot to keep the noise levels down.

    Have you tried re-applying the thermal compound to the CPU?
     
  3. sorgo thread starter macrumors member

    sorgo

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    #3
    No, I haven't tried that. Is there a specific compound you prefer/recommend? Also do you have any tips for the application? Thanks!
     
  4. eyoungren, Feb 29, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016

    eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #4
    Arctic Silver 5.

    Buy the kit with the cleaning/finishing solutions. Follow the directions on the bottles. Use the finishing solution after you've cleaned off all the old paste.

    If you don't have a lint free cloth to use, you can substitute coffee filters (they are lint free).

    Once done, put a dab of the AS5 directly on top of the chip and use a spreader to coat the entire chip in one layer. Don't use too much or you'll end up with a thick layer or spreading paste outside of the chip. Don't use too little or you won't be able to cover the entire chip (which will be bad).

    [​IMG]
     
  5. sorgo thread starter macrumors member

    sorgo

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    Feb 16, 2016
    #5
    Thanks so much! I will have to try this out...but I'm quite afraid of screwing anything up with something gooey/messy.
     
  6. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #6
    No worries. I was the same my first time. But once you get into it you will realize it's no big deal.

    Just clean the old thermal paste off, repeat as many times with the cleaning solution as you need to. Then use the purifier.

    Once you get to the part where you spread the paste on it's just like spreading peanut butter on a slice of bread, or smoothing concrete. Make it a thin layer that covers the top completely. If you do get some paste outside the chip that's fine. You're just trying to avoid large amounts.

    The paste comes out of the tube slowly and in a thin stream. You have to work really hard to overdo it. Underdoing it is the greater risk. If you don't put enough on in the first go, add some more. The point is to make a thin layer, however many drops (or globs) you have to add to achieve that.

    And if you need to start over, just wipe it off and start again. :D
     
  7. bobesch, Feb 29, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016

    bobesch macrumors 6502a

    bobesch

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    Oct 21, 2015
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    #7
    I've used Arctic Ceramique2. It's non conductive nor capacitive. One drop onto the middle of the CPU and let pressing the heatsink into it's proper place do the job of spreading. Maybe this will help to bridge a wider space between CPU and heatsink. Don't know, if this was the proper way.
    Actually at my PowerBookG4 1.5GHz the heat coming from the mSATA-IDE-Converter (50-55°C) is inflicting the temperature-balance of the original design with a "cool" disk-drive.
    The heat-sink is not the real problem. I don't want all heat conducted into the direction of the fan with a fan constantly running. The unit ought to conduct the heat to the outside without the fan. The powerbook with its aluminium body really get 'hot' by this way, but it's running without the fan. There's a huge space over at the optical drive where heat from the heatsink and the mSATA could be conducted to with some copper-plate/pipe construction. So the heat could be radiated somwhere below the right part of the keyboard. Don't know if this will work. Currently I'm not desperate to check this. My little red-hot still can cope with that higher level of temperature (currently mSATA 55°C/ GPU 65°C / CPU 55°C).
    I also run an OWC IDE-SSD in my iBookG4 1.2GHz. With the iBook I don't run into trouble with a constantly running fan as I did with the PowerBook, before I've changed the threshold of the Drive's temperature-level. So what are the temperature levels you are measuring at the iBook?
     
  8. sorgo thread starter macrumors member

    sorgo

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    Feb 16, 2016
    #8
    In G4FanControl, the temperature for sensors two and three (of three) quickly approaches 50°C whenever I push the machine to perform nearly any real task, whether I am playing a game, processing a word document, browsing with TenFourFox, etc. I have the fan switch-on threshold set to 43°C, so they are on near-constantly.
     
  9. teymur macrumors newbie

    teymur

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    #9
    Careful, this is a little bit more complicated!

    There are thermal pads installed originally, supposedly because the gap between the heatsink and the graphics chip is quite large. Only next to the CPU there are screws with springs to tighten the contact, that is not the case with the graphics chip.

    So when thermal paste is applied there, there is no real contact between heatsink and Chip. (I've already tried that ;) ) The only solution there is a thermal pad or a copper shim with thermal paste.

    I would suggest to only change the pad on the CPU and replace it with thermal paste and keep using the other pads. In case those are dry I think there are new pads available on ebay.

    Regarding the tempereratures I think 50°C is not too hot for the CPU, my iBook is also running at 50° normally. Or is your book running on much higher temps?
     
  10. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #10
    It's a laptop, not a desktop PC gaming rig that's been overclocked.

    50C is fine, most laptop silicon is good until 90C+. The i7 in my rMBP doesn't start throttling until 100C.
     
  11. weckart macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    #11
    50-60°C is normal for light browsing. 45-50°C are normal idling temps once the iBook has warmed up. As far as max temps, the problem is not with the CPU burning out but with capacitors and other chips in the vicinity which might not appreciate the toastiness, to say nothing of the brittle lead-free solder keeping the chips in place.

    As far as thermal pastes go, I have used Arctic Silver 5 but it is very electrically conductive and any excess spread over and beyond the surface of the die can cause a short if too much is applied and it reaches the logic board or resistors around the CPU die. It also has a curing time, which means optimum thermal conductivity takes a while to achieve. Recently, I have used Arctic MX4; non-conductive with regard to electrical components and no curing time. It also seems to be better reviewed than the venerable AS5.

    If you have managed to pull your iBook apart to replace the HDD and were seriously thinking about the mod in your OP, I cannot see why repasting would faze you in the slightest. Do it.
     
  12. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #12
    Another recommendation for Arctic MX-4 here.

    Reminds me, I really need to repaste my TiBook...
     
  13. bobesch macrumors 6502a

    bobesch

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    Oct 21, 2015
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    #13
    Uff, seems my PowerBooks CPU temperature lies within a reasonable area even after I used the "spot in the middle and let the spreading work on its own…" :)

    Yeah, that is why I choose "Arctic Ceramique 2" … Take the risk of accidental damage at lowest level when messing around with the regoofing stuff. (nice to know there are other risk-free alternatives).
     
  14. sorgo thread starter macrumors member

    sorgo

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    #14
    Wish there were a video guide or nice PDF for noobish iBook users. It's weird; none of the other reparations I mentioned in the original post fazed me. For some reason the thought of applying something viscous to the insides of my 'Book just freaks me out. I guess I should just get over it. :oops:
     
  15. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    Phoenix • 85037
    #15
    You mean something like this? ;)

    https://www.ifixit.com/Device/iBook_G4_12"_1.33_GHz
     
  16. sorgo thread starter macrumors member

    sorgo

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    Feb 16, 2016
    #16
    Yes, but which of those guides can help me specifically?
     
  17. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #17
    What are you looking to do?

    Or do you mean pasting specifically?

    If pasting, then I'm sorry, I misunderstood.
     
  18. Cox Orange, Mar 1, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2016

    Cox Orange macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #18
    Not sure, if it will help anything, but I'd like to add that this partcular model used two different fan models during its production period and they were even used at the same time (i.e. there is no point were Apple suddenly changed and used the other one).

    A)
    These are the specifications by Delta for the stock fan:
    BFB0405HHA
    Rev.: -A
    Functions: -R00 / -F00
    rated Voltage: 5V
    operating Voltage: 4.0V to 5.5V
    Input current: 0.16A
    Input power: 0.80W

    speed: 8500rpm
    air flow: 0.085m3/min. / 3.00hcfm
    static pressure: 14.33mmH2O / 0.564 inH2O
    noise: 34.5dB(A)

    B)
    can't remember at the moment, but from an older post of mine, here

    is a comparison:
    1x Delta BFB0405HHA 0,33A (what I read on the fan, but the manufacturer lists it as 0,16A at 5V)
    1x Sunon Maglev Fan GC05401DVH-S (or 8?) K5A13J, 5V, 1,3W (which should be 0,26A, I could not find that on the internet).

    One of them has longer blades, which almost catch up with the surrounding metal frame.

    The difference:
    One is louder and kicks in for 10min. until it reaches the "OK"-temperature, the other takes 18min. and is quieter.

    I have to look up, which one was which.

    Oh, I had a quick look in my closet and there is a third one, that was in use.
    ADDA AD6505HB-GCB (Q72B), DC=5V 0.22A. ADDA Corp. (shorter blades, quieter, 18min. to take down temperature to "OK" value and stop spinning).

    LET ME LOOK UP WHAT WAS WHAT IN THE NEXT DAYS and take the above with caution in the meantime.


    EDIT:
    delta: short blades, narrow spacing
    Sunon: long blades, wide spacing between blades
    ADDA: in between lenght, wide spacing between blades
     
  19. weckart macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    #19
    eyeyoungren has already provided the guide to stripping the iBook but since you have gone there already, you probably know your way around that. As for the process of repasting, there are a ton of visual guides splattered all over the net, including this one from iFixit.

    https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Applying+Thermal+Paste/744
     
  20. sorgo thread starter macrumors member

    sorgo

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    #20
    Thanks! This should definitely come in handy whenever I get around to re-upping on thermal paste.

    Although I must say some of the comments at the end of that guide reinvigorated some of my fear. :eek:


    Interesting... All I did was purchase a fan replacement from ifixit and it seems to be functioning very well. Let me know what you figure out!
     
  21. Cox Orange macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #21
    I found my old pictures. At the same time while I cramped out my parts box and had a look into it I forgot to take a picture of the Sunon fan, therefore I attach one from the internet.

    Here are my photos, all are from the model ibook G4 12" mid 2005 (1,33GHz):

    IMG_1945.JPG IMG_1950.JPG IMG_1955.JPG IMG_1962.JPG IMG_1964.JPG IMG_1976.JPG IMG_1978a.jpg IMG_1988a.jpg SUNON-GC054010VH-8-5V-1-3W.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  22. sorgo thread starter macrumors member

    sorgo

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    #22
    Interesting. So – in your informed opinion – which fan is better/preferable? I think the replacement I received is the one with fewer blades (as was the one originally in the machine).
     
  23. havokalien macrumors 6502a

    havokalien

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    Kelso, Wa
    #23
    I would say fewer blades version would be better as more blade surface area would most likely move more air.
     
  24. Cox Orange macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #24
    It depends on your goal:
    high noise, but short cooling time (10min.) = delta
    low noise, longer spinning/cooling time (18min.) = ADDA, Sunon.

    When I first used the ADDA as replacement I was like "oh is that nice to the ears" in a hot summer. But when it kicks in more often for a longer duration you even see this as going on your nerves. I ended up putting the delta in again.

    I have to admit that my memory is broken, by the fact that at one point the ADDA started to have a quiet rattling acompaniing it and I can't say, if I would maybe have stayed with the lower noise hadn't the fan gone broke. What I want to say, though I think I imagine the sound from before it got broke, my memory is somewhat spoiled with the last days of the fan.

    It would be interesting to have the old batteries and HDDs to calculate on-power times and see, if one of the fans last longer generally. Unfortunately I don't have these.
    I can only say that one of my ibooks I had on almost every day for 5h and the delta fan stayed healthy (from 10/2005 on, had a 40GB 4200rpm stock drive). Then in 2011 I put in the ADDA fan when I replaced the HDD with a 320GB WD 5400rpm and the fan got defective about a year ago, with everyday use (the fan came from an ibook which was manufactured in beginning of 2006 and had less on time, same model).

    I have a second ibook of the same type that came with the ADDA and wasn't used a lot, but had a 160GB Samsung 5400rpm in it. The fan worked perfect, until in about 2014 the ibook was used 5h in a warm environment every two weeks for 3 days each. It started to rattle then.

    I have one more ADDA from a defective ibook mid2005, 1 Sunon from a defective mid2005 and 1 Sunon from a working 1,2GHz 12" late 2004 model. If I remember correctly the Sunon didn't have the rattling, when I purchased the 1,2GHz in Feb. 2014. Not knowing how long the person before me had used it, I can't say anything about its reliability.

    Now it might look as if the ADDA doesn't last as long as the delta (Sunon unknown), but I don't think we can make a clear judgement here.

    In your case I would try to make the decision solely on wether you like to have lw noise for longer time or high noise for shorter periods and don't take the reliablity into account. Also, if you have done the surgery once, the next time it will be easier, so you still could replace it, if it breaks in the future.
     
  25. bobesch macrumors 6502a

    bobesch

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2015
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    #25
    When it comes to hot summers and heavy workload placing the "Book" onto an ice-akku (with kitchen-towel) to prevent any fan from going to Limbo.
    For casual purpose "Rain Design iLap Stands" are my favorite solution for cooling and stuffing things below... :rolleyes:
    41eDC9hcj0L.jpg
     

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