This must be also mean wireless synch since a 'data exchange' relationship has been established between iTunes and your wireless touch device.
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iControl iTunes Player for iPhone?
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Silly argument. MS sell software, not hardware so their production costs are negligible compared to Apple's even taking the reduced costs Apple incur by manufacturing their goods in low wage economies. Apple's profit for the quarter was just over $1 billion. Microsoft's was $4.4 billion.
Provided:
a) They do - the numbers you're quoting here, with the exception of the iPod, are ludicrous. What research have you done to suggest this? What time-scale are we talking about?
b) Microsoft stand still which is unlikely. Again you don't quote a time-scale so it's difficult to draw a comparison here.
And if it rains gold tomorrow we'll all be rich.
Except during the 70's and 80's when they were in competition with other OS makers including apple. And beat them. Incidentally, I'd also point out that most of Apple's revenue is hardware dependent whilst most of MS's is software which isn't really the same market.
Yes it was. Just not very good competition. Incidentally I'd point out that Steve Jobs was there in the 80's when MS were kicking the crap out of Apple.
You think? They're very good but sustainable long term? Not without a major market strategy shift.
I strongly suggest you read up on economics, target markets, product diversification and pricing. It'll give you some much needed perspective.
Because if your iPhone can do it, a device you'll probably have with you anyway, you don't need to carry another device.
What was the point in my buying the iPhone when I already had a phone and an iPod?
Well yes, but my point was that it's only really going to be of use if you're out and about and there are public libraries of media content available to remote access. If you're in your house or garden what not use superior devices for this purpose?
For example, apps like skyTuneZ on Symbian phones already do this sort of thing and, whilst cool, unless you have access to public domain it's sort of restrictive plus I have better devices in the house.
Wow - do you have greyscale contact lenses in - what a bleak world view you have!!
1) Apple VS MS profit - When Apple doubles output it's profit will be (staying as is) $2.5 billion - but assuming the scale of economies leverages some more profit advantage I expect we could see $3billion - so close enough without being greedy right ?
2) Numbers - ludicrous ? Are you kidding ? they already sell 40M ipods, they already sell 10 million macs, they are already going to sell 10m iphones - so shifting from 2.5m macs a quarter to 5m when the market is 170m Personal computers is not exactly going to be difficult. The 'move to mac' momentum is there - for the first time there IS a credible alternative to Microsoft - this has never happened before. on Iphone even Gartner are predicting 45m iphones in 2009 which out of a 1 billion handset market is not exactly 'ludicrous' either.
3) 70's ? Huh - Apple I & II was the only computer - there was no Microsoft to speak of. Only geeks and nerds bought computers but Apple were number one in that small beginning. Microsoft were part of the Apple family - until they performed a glorious back-stab and stole the OS and ran away with the Office package they'd been commissioned to create for Mac. Jobs was out by '85 and the demise is, shall we say, history
4) Mmmh competition ? well, even upto 1997 Apple were still sailing on the steam generated from the original '85 mac - hardly call that competition. Leaderless and visionless with stagnant products.
5) Sustainable ? What's not sustainable ? that's like saying 'wheat markets' are not sustainable...So, a company with 5-8% market-share that is single-handedly creating a portable 'iTouch' communicator revolution is not sustainable? Your kidding right? How about 5% down 95% to go - What can Microsoft hope to win ? certainly not any more market share - all they can do is desperately fight to retain current ground. If anything is not sustainable it's Vista and the 'big ass table' they have envisioned for our futures...
I think you've assumed that I think Apple have to 'get it all' like Microsoft did - no Apple will be happy to take another 10 or 20% market share and leave the budget/junk/crap phone & PC mess' to the rest
It would be cool if you could download from the iTunes Library wirelessly via the new app. That would definitely make the new app stand out from the other third party apps.
Already Possible
Simplify Media have had this cracked for a while - but the iPhone / iTouch need to be jail-broken.
http://www.simplifymedia.com/lab.html
Jim
Simplify Media have had this cracked for a while - but the iPhone / iTouch need to be jail-broken.
http://www.simplifymedia.com/lab.html
Jim
So would it stream from your iTunes library to your iPhone? Or would you use the iPhone as a remote control for iTunes to play music on your Mac and over AirTunes?
If the latter, then it sounds like Salling Clicker, which I use every day on my N95. The absence of a Salling Clicker-like application for the iPhone has so far been one of the several reasons I'm staying with Nokia for now.
So this is good news... hope it's true.
SL
If the latter, then it sounds like Salling Clicker, which I use every day on my N95. The absence of a Salling Clicker-like application for the iPhone has so far been one of the several reasons I'm staying with Nokia for now.
So this is good news... hope it's true.
SL
Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)
I agree it would be cool to be able to stream the content in the iPhone to the AppleTV or Airport Express directly. I would also like to see iPhone be able to locate and play music on a computer or AppleTV without having to sync it to the iPhone.
HiRez said:
I agree it would be cool to be able to stream the content in the iPhone to the AppleTV or Airport Express directly. I would also like to see iPhone be able to locate and play music on a computer or AppleTV without having to sync it to the iPhone.
Sorry, not sure how you gather that. I have a pretty good world view, it just happens to be a realistic one and, since I invest in both Apple and Microsoft amongst other companies, it helps to have a good idea of each company's market and potential.
Yes, but that brings us back to the "when Apple doubles its output" part.
Yeah I mentioned that.
Actually, they don't at the moment. They should do this year but then it's a huge leap from 10 million to 20 million given Apple's market segmentation.
They might sell 10 million iPhones in calender year 2008. this depends on:
a) Release to new markets to improve sales opportunities
b) Release of new models
Of course, counting numbers from b) together with sales of v1.0 iPhones is a bit dubious - Nokia will not add N96 sales volumes to N95 sales volumes for example - but I suppose Steve and co were talking about market penetration so I'll let them off here.
So, yeah, they might. We'll see.
This assumption depends on constant high growth. I don't think this will be the case and expect momentum to start flattening. Sure, they'll grow maybe to, say, 15 million Mac sales a year. After that it's hard to see where sales will come from given the current business model.
This is true.
Given that Gene Munster is probably the biggest Apple bear out there, I don't think the word 'even' is appropriate here. Apple may very well see high volumes of the iPhone but they're going to have to vary the product line and pricing - in much the same way as they did for the iPod - to do it which will in turn eat into revenue and profit.
Partially true. The market for personal computers was restricted to the technically aware up until, say, about 1976 - which incidentally was when Apple started - after that the likes of the Commodore PET and the TRS 80 appeared so to say the Apple I and II were the only computers available is incorrect. I'd also point out that it was the TRS 80 that dominated sales, not the Apple II so Apple weren't number one at this point.
Of course you're right about MS - they didn't really get going until the 80's. Confusing software and hardware again. sorry.
Mind you, once they did get going it was all over bar the shouting.
Nonsense. Microsoft started up about 1978 and their first big break was developing DOS for IBM. To suggest they were part of the Apple family is totally, totally wrong. Where did you get this nonsense from?
But still competition. Like I said, just not very good competition. You can't rule a company out of a market just because they're going through a fallow patch because your entire argument depends on Microsoft having a fallow patch.
Pricing, lock in and suitability of purpose mainly.
No it isn't. You're comparing a food staple to luxury goods.
I think you misunderstand - I said their growth rate isn't sustainable. Apple will continue to do well but will hit a ceiling. As for portable communicators, hardly a revolution, is it? They've been out for years and Apple will have to fight very, very hard to establish themselves in this global market.
Don't confuse a nice UI and browser with a revolutionary device. Portable communicators are already a well worn path.
Well, since they control the market they can't. Apple will continue to nibble away at MS's market share but that's what it'll be - nibbling, not huge bites.
Desperate? Over a couple of percentage points?
Hardly.
Vista is just the latest iteration of Windows. Windows is most definitely sustainable.
I don't think there is a 10% or 20% extra market that doesn't involve lower price products. I think that once you get to 15% you've already hit that ceiling.
And this assumes that people will ignore the other high quality products that other manufacturers offer which, naturally, they won't.
Like I said, my world-view is fine, it's just tempered with realism.
Bongo's industry affiliation
If you review Bongo's post history since joining in 2008, not too difficult to conclude that he works for a corporation like Nokia or a network provider which doesn't offer iPhone. Well informed, has all the industry sales figures, and doesn't have much good to say about any Apple products. Might even work for one of the paid-to-post spin shops like Dvorak or Enderle. Just be aware.
If you review Bongo's post history since joining in 2008, not too difficult to conclude that he works for a corporation like Nokia or a network provider which doesn't offer iPhone. Well informed, has all the industry sales figures, and doesn't have much good to say about any Apple products. Might even work for one of the paid-to-post spin shops like Dvorak or Enderle. Just be aware.
Bongo's industry affiliation?
This is Bongo's standard reply. Even sounds like Dvorak. Why is he posting here? Review his post history and decide for yourself.
This is Bongo's standard reply. Even sounds like Dvorak. Why is he posting here? Review his post history and decide for yourself.
Hmm, kinda sorta leaving aside the tedious ms-apple war that some fanboys seem addicted to (but not for long);
How about a variation of this idea that you could (with permission of course) access the library (or a public playlist) of nearby iphone/touch-es. Probably bluetooth rather than wifi, so not so much power is used. So you are sitting on the bus and the girl two seats down has a very similar taste in music to you, and you decide she looks hot after all. Or the guy across the road introduces you to a new band that otherwise you wouldn't have discovered in a million years.
You can send comments on a song, suggest similar.
All shared songs have tags to buy from the itunes store if you like it.
"Welcome to the social" indeed!
How about a variation of this idea that you could (with permission of course) access the library (or a public playlist) of nearby iphone/touch-es. Probably bluetooth rather than wifi, so not so much power is used. So you are sitting on the bus and the girl two seats down has a very similar taste in music to you, and you decide she looks hot after all. Or the guy across the road introduces you to a new band that otherwise you wouldn't have discovered in a million years.
You can send comments on a song, suggest similar.
All shared songs have tags to buy from the itunes store if you like it.
"Welcome to the social" indeed!
Thanks mccldwll - I took a look and he is constantly down on Apple and up on MS and Nokia - seems to be desperately trying to convert the happy into the sad...not much of a noble calling really...on those grounds I'd say Microsoft employee...
TUAW claims that they've heard that Apple is working on a new iPhone application called "iControl" which will allow the iPhone to control and stream media from local iTunes libraries
Sounds good, but it would be even better if the iPhone/iPod touch could act as a remote control for
TV (over wi-fi).Nokia/Microsoft
Hmmmmmm.
"Nokia and Microsoft to Deliver Windows Live Services to Millions of Mobile Customers
Industry leaders join forces to bring Web services to Nokia devices.
Related Links
Microsoft Resources:
Windows Live Newsroom
Windows Live Betas
Windows Live Search
MSN
Other Resources:
Nokia Web site
Nokia Windows Live Download
ESPOO, Finland, and REDMOND, Wash. Aug. 23, 2007 Nokia, the worlds largest mobile device manufacturer, and Microsoft Corp., a global leader in online communications and communities, have joined together to provide customers with a new suite of Windows Live services specifically designed for Nokia devices.
Starting today, Nokia customers in 11 countries with compatible S60 devices can download the new suite enabling access to Windows Live Hotmail®, Windows Live Messenger, Windows Live Contacts and Windows Live Spaces. Starting next year, customers who purchase compatible Nokia Series 40 handsets will also have access to these popular Windows Live services.
Nokia and Microsoft are empowering the mobile lifestyle by providing mobile customers with easy access to their world of online relationships, information and interests. By enabling access to Windows Live services on both the Nokia S60 and Series 40 platforms using standard Web services protocols, our mutual customers will have the power to seamlessly move between contacts, e-mail, messenger, phone calls, text messaging, camera, gallery and browsing, all in an integrated way.
By taking advantage of the extensive and agile distribution network that Nokia has, we have the opportunity to bring the power of Windows Live services to Nokia devices, thus ensuring our customers can take their most important online information with them on the go, said Jari Pasanen, vice president, Strategy and Technology, Nokia Multimedia.
Nokia customers who own the Nokia N73, N80 Internet Edition, N95, N76 and the N93i can get the Windows Live services via the Download! application in the following countries: Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, U.K., Sweden, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Customers can visit http://www.nokia.com/windowslive to learn more, and check if their country is on the availability list. Initially the service will be available as a free trial, and then customers in select markets wanting to continue using the service may be asked to pay a monthly fee.
The availability of Windows Live services for Nokias devices demonstrates our commitment to delivering great mobile experiences and extending peoples online lives taking them from the PC to the device, said Steve Berkowitz, senior vice president of the Online Services Business at Microsoft. The alliance will enable a much broader group of consumers to experience the benefits Windows Live has to offer, easily connecting them to the information and people that matter most from virtually anywhere.
Todays announcement builds on the existing cooperation between Nokia and Microsoft, which integrated Microsofts Live Search for Mobile into the Nokia Mobile Search application. Nokia also plans to extend this service onto the Series 40 platform to enhance the search experience across a greater range of devices.
About MSN and Windows Live
MSN® attracts more than 465 million unique users worldwide per month. With localized versions available globally in 42 markets and 21 languages, MSN is a world leader in delivering compelling programmed content experiences to consumers and online advertising opportunities to businesses worldwide. Windows Live, a comprehensive set of personal Internet services and software, is designed to bring together in one place all the relationships, information and interests people care about most, with enhanced safety and security features across their PC, devices and the Web. MSN and Windows Live will be offered alongside each other as complementary services. Some Windows Live services entered an early beta phase on Nov. 1, 2005; these and future beta updates can be found at http://ideas.live.com. Windows Live is available at http://www.live.com. MSN is located on the Web at http://www.msn.com."
Hmmmmmm.
"Nokia and Microsoft to Deliver Windows Live Services to Millions of Mobile Customers
Industry leaders join forces to bring Web services to Nokia devices.
Related Links
Microsoft Resources:
Windows Live Newsroom
Windows Live Betas
Windows Live Search
MSN
Other Resources:
Nokia Web site
Nokia Windows Live Download
ESPOO, Finland, and REDMOND, Wash. Aug. 23, 2007 Nokia, the worlds largest mobile device manufacturer, and Microsoft Corp., a global leader in online communications and communities, have joined together to provide customers with a new suite of Windows Live services specifically designed for Nokia devices.
Starting today, Nokia customers in 11 countries with compatible S60 devices can download the new suite enabling access to Windows Live Hotmail®, Windows Live Messenger, Windows Live Contacts and Windows Live Spaces. Starting next year, customers who purchase compatible Nokia Series 40 handsets will also have access to these popular Windows Live services.
Nokia and Microsoft are empowering the mobile lifestyle by providing mobile customers with easy access to their world of online relationships, information and interests. By enabling access to Windows Live services on both the Nokia S60 and Series 40 platforms using standard Web services protocols, our mutual customers will have the power to seamlessly move between contacts, e-mail, messenger, phone calls, text messaging, camera, gallery and browsing, all in an integrated way.
By taking advantage of the extensive and agile distribution network that Nokia has, we have the opportunity to bring the power of Windows Live services to Nokia devices, thus ensuring our customers can take their most important online information with them on the go, said Jari Pasanen, vice president, Strategy and Technology, Nokia Multimedia.
Nokia customers who own the Nokia N73, N80 Internet Edition, N95, N76 and the N93i can get the Windows Live services via the Download! application in the following countries: Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, U.K., Sweden, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Customers can visit http://www.nokia.com/windowslive to learn more, and check if their country is on the availability list. Initially the service will be available as a free trial, and then customers in select markets wanting to continue using the service may be asked to pay a monthly fee.
The availability of Windows Live services for Nokias devices demonstrates our commitment to delivering great mobile experiences and extending peoples online lives taking them from the PC to the device, said Steve Berkowitz, senior vice president of the Online Services Business at Microsoft. The alliance will enable a much broader group of consumers to experience the benefits Windows Live has to offer, easily connecting them to the information and people that matter most from virtually anywhere.
Todays announcement builds on the existing cooperation between Nokia and Microsoft, which integrated Microsofts Live Search for Mobile into the Nokia Mobile Search application. Nokia also plans to extend this service onto the Series 40 platform to enhance the search experience across a greater range of devices.
About MSN and Windows Live
MSN® attracts more than 465 million unique users worldwide per month. With localized versions available globally in 42 markets and 21 languages, MSN is a world leader in delivering compelling programmed content experiences to consumers and online advertising opportunities to businesses worldwide. Windows Live, a comprehensive set of personal Internet services and software, is designed to bring together in one place all the relationships, information and interests people care about most, with enhanced safety and security features across their PC, devices and the Web. MSN and Windows Live will be offered alongside each other as complementary services. Some Windows Live services entered an early beta phase on Nov. 1, 2005; these and future beta updates can be found at http://ideas.live.com. Windows Live is available at http://www.live.com. MSN is located on the Web at http://www.msn.com."
1) Apple have never been price competitive - one of the things that made them totally uncompetitive in the 80's and 90;s was their ridiculous pricing strategy. That's all over- today you can buy a high-quality Apple computer for the equivalent money you would spend on a high-quality PC (except the Apple computer doesn't run a MS crippleware OS which totally negates all the cpu performance gains you thought you'd just bought). Apple has never been so affordable...
2) Sales Numbers - Apple are making revisions and so sales numbers should be achieved. On that we seem to agree? Apple's growth - well scarily for MS there is are 8+ ( going forward) years of teenager ipod users coming off age over the next decade who love, trust and believe in Apple's commitment to product excellence rather than just endless version churning to exploit a locked in consumer base which appears to be MS operating procedure. Those few hundred million ipod users will likely easily deliver the extra 10 million mac sales you seem so eager to believe won't happen. Once again - never before has Apple been such a household name. Never before had hundreds of millions of people actually experienced the 'Apple difference'. I am confident that once people have tried Apple products and they know such excellence is achievable and 'at a stretch' affordable' they will take that road rather than the usual ignorant 'just buy a PC' one that has been the norm for so long.
3) Sorry, outside of business analysis in specialised corporate data centres, for the most part, only tech geeks bought personal computers upto, mmmh, let's say 1988...then the boom really began. Sadly, Apple was already lost with Steve Jobs long gone by then and as I've said overpricing themselves out of the market.
4) Microsoft not part of the Apple family - Are you kidding ? They had unparalleled access to Apple's core systems and personal - they abused it and stole technology - they are and always have been unethical from the outset.
5) Tech market not a 'staple' ? -you think were going back to horse and cart anytime - you think the modern world can function without this stuff ?- tech market is here to stay and expanding exponentially still which is why Microsoft will continue to make incredible sales without merit.
6) Growth rate is sustainable - see points 1,2 & 5. Not to mention Apple's incredible rate of innovation which MS who has NO legacy of original thinking can't compete with since they have to wait and then copy Apple
7) Nibbling - true, sad that it is that in 2008 the word got stiffed with the third rate product became no 1 but maybe a few people are wising up and realising that there actually isn't a single compelling reason to buy a Windows Vista based PC anymore...we can only hope...
8) Lower Price products - yes, Apple will never seek 'total global market' domination like MS - they are happy to share the world. They will probably only ever take 20-30% of the market since I doubt they will ever try to compete with Dell and Acer for the junk end of the tech market.
So in summary, your MS company should be safe, apart from the fact that their operating costs are extraordinary and if they lose 30% of the market share without stripping the company down vastly they could go bust but other than that you can sleep well knowing there will always be a big stupid lumbering MS offering the third rate solution to the masses. I actually think this is a good thing - choice is essential and a low priced product is truly liberating for those who can't afford Apple's prices...even though they are now so cheap for the quality and experience you actually get...
...but that doesn't mean you have to BASH Apple's accomplishments relentlessly through your 500+ posts...your world view should take into account that some people LIKE Apple and are happy with their products...
Or more recently, soon after Bongo's appearance:
"Nokia to bring Microsoft Silverlight powered experiences to millions of mobile users
March 04, 2008
Extends choice for developers on the world's leading mobile platforms
Espoo, Finland - Nokia today announced plans to make Microsoft Silverlight available for S60 on Symbian OS, the world's leading smartphone software(1), as well as for Series 40 devices and Nokia Internet tablets. Adding support for Silverlight will extend opportunities for developers to create rich, interactive applications that run on multiple platforms in a consistent and reliable way."
"Nokia to bring Microsoft Silverlight powered experiences to millions of mobile users
March 04, 2008
Extends choice for developers on the world's leading mobile platforms
Espoo, Finland - Nokia today announced plans to make Microsoft Silverlight available for S60 on Symbian OS, the world's leading smartphone software(1), as well as for Series 40 devices and Nokia Internet tablets. Adding support for Silverlight will extend opportunities for developers to create rich, interactive applications that run on multiple platforms in a consistent and reliable way."
That is going to be awesome if it's true. I cant wait for iPhone 2.0 it's going to have so many new features that it is going to blow the industry out of the water!
You may be on to something here. I mean, other manufacturers did such a splendid job of recreating the iPod interface and bringing it to the masses...
..uhh, wait a minute...
Apple learned a very valuable lesson from the OS wars (which some would argue are still going on). The problem they had back in the day was that they controlled EVERYTHING: OS, hardware design and manufacturing was all pretty much in-house, and they charged ridiculous prices. The Apple of today still is a control freak, but it plays the partner game extremely well,
with its cooperations with Intel, Samsung, ARM, and the open source community being prime examples. Generally, Apple today is doing a great job of learning from it's missteps (Apple TV, forthcoming iPhone 2.0) and capitalizing on that knowledge.
It's going to be very, very difficult for another company to knock Apple off of the perch it now sits on top of.
Poor Nokia, I say - if history is anything to go by they'll get dumped by MS in a few years when MS suddenly replace that 'nice stable steel bridge' that joined the two companies for a while with a rickety rope bridge and attempt to go it alone...but what choice do they have? Not much really - Innovation is hard to do - Competing with OSX on a portable device doubly so...
Yes, pulls your iTunes library up on the iPhone wherever you are in the world, provided you have an internet connection. So for example, I run the Simplify Media software at home on a server that stores all my music & vids. I then run Simplify Media on ANY machine i the world, log in my with my account, and then it appears as a shared library in the left hand navigation on that machines iTunes - as if it is shared over a local network.
Imagine being able to surf your 100Gb + library on your 8Gb iTouch / iPhone whilst on the move. It is truly excellent - AND FREE!
However, being able to use it as a wifi remote would be a shame as there is more potential there.
I quite fancy having the new iPhone with me with locally stored favourite albums, and then accessing the whole library when I fancy something a bit different.
Jim