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The companies will soon have to inform customers when their contracts are about to end and offer them the best alternative deals, including those currently only on offer to new customers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technolo...ile-phones&link_location=live-reporting-story
I think there will soon be a system where providers have to automatically reduce your bill to take out the phone cost when the contract comes to an end.

Phone companies have been making millions and millions off customers who have forgotten to downgrade their tariffs and have done for many years. It’ll be the next PPI style compensation claim in years to come and we’ll all be entitled to a lump sum I reckon lol.
 
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This. I could buy the phone outright but I like the convenience of upgrading with the iPhone upgrade program.
Exactly, it’s easy to add a phone and contract to your monthly outgoings where it is hardly missed. It’s not a question for me of not having enough money to afford an iPhone, I just could t justify paying out £1k in one go as it would cease to offer value to me. These people who make assumptions others can’t afford iPhones should realise they are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme. I pay £800 a month in tax and that’s nearly an iPhone XS!! lol
 
I think there will soon be a system where providers have to automatically reduce your bill to take out the phone cost when the contract comes to an end.

Phone companies have been making millions and millions off customers who have forgotten to downgrade their tariffs and have done for many years. It’ll be the next PPI style compensation claim in years to come and we’ll all be entitled to a lump sum I reckon lol.

That’s just so messed up. Sitting back and saying well they didn’t change their contract it’s not our fault. I can only imagine how much they made. Well now they won’t be making that money on people and they will be paying a ton of money to update their systems to accommodate the notification system.
 
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I'm already not buying any since they don't make anything of a size I consider reasonable, so no.

(SE user)
 
Yep, still paying for the phone. In the UK, after the agreed end date of the contract, it’s up to the customer to cancel or replace with another contract. They are just too lazy or actually do not realise that as part of the contract they are paying off the phone. I actually tried to explain this to one friend who didn’t understand or (just as likely) would not accept that she was being ripped off.
This was also the case a few yrs back when my wife had a phone contract and payed it off early. As I recall the cell carrier didn't want to let her out or charge her less until I pointed out, once the phone was payed for that was the end of paying higher rate plus also ended the contract time frame. People need to watch and realize the cell company will gladly continue taking your money even after you payed up in full.
 
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The companies will soon have to inform customers when their contracts are about to end and offer them the best alternative deals, including those currently only on offer to new customers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technolo...ile-phones&link_location=live-reporting-story

Vodafone have been doing that for years. Not sure about others. It’s usually done via email. But the excuse I’ve heard from friends on Vodafone are along the lines of:

“I thought that email was spam”.
“Email? I only use WhatsApp now”.
“It’s too difficult/I can’t be bothered”.
“The alternative offers where presented in a way that confused me”.
“I’m saving up for the latest iPhone and don’t want/understand sim only plans, so I’ll keep paying my contract”.
 
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terrifs could be in place by June 24th, since they started the approval process.

1.Do you think Apple would pass on the increase to us to offset?
2. Would you still buy iPhones if prices went up by $150/$200?
3. Do you think they will just eat the difference and not pass it on to us?
4. If they did pass on the increase would that see iPhone demand fall beyond repair?

1: yes
2: yes
3: no
4: not even remotely
 
This was also the case a few yrs back when my wife had a phone contract and payed it off early. As I recall the cell carrier didn't want to let her out or charge her less until I pointed out, once the phone was payed for that was the end of paying higher rate plus also ended the contract time frame. People need to watch and realize the cell company will gladly continue taking your money even after you payed up in full.

This seems strange to me, because if you’re set up for ‘auto pay’ with your cell provider for your phone, (as most consumers are), then they shouldn’t be taking money for something that is paid off, then you’re not charged anything there after on a monthly basis. Unless you’re making monthly payments manually, then that would be the only way I could see a discrepancy actually occurring where the consumer is overpaying.
 
Not even remotely? Sales have already been sliding a lot in part to price increase. So ur saying another increase wouldn’t have any more affect?

I didn't say that at all.

The question was: If they did pass on the increase would that see iPhone demand fall beyond repair?

It might have an effect, sure. But will it permanently destroy the iPhone's demand? Not even close. Even if iPhone was the only one impacted, it wouldn't.

That said, these tariffs are going to impact all mobile phones, not just iPhones. All mobile phones will see their prices go up.

No matter how you cut it, this idiotic trade war might cost us a few more bucks to get our toys, but it's not going to kill they industry.
 
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I didn't say that at all.

The question was: If they did pass on the increase would that see iPhone demand fall beyond repair?

It might have an affect, sure. But will it permanently destroy the iPhone's demand? Not even close. Even if iPhone was the only one impacted, it wouldn't.

That said, these tariffs are going to impact all mobile phones, not just iPhones. All mobile phones will see their prices go up.

No matter how you cut it, this idiotic trade war might cost us a few more bucks to get our toys, but it's not going to kill they industry.

Gotcha ya...I can see just years of increase’s and only some years of advancement over other phones. This is the perfect time for other companies to put out top notch products undercutting them in the process and gaining market share.
 
Everybody uses their iPhone for taking pictures including professional photographers, it’s just not their camera of choice in terms of taking pictures for commercial use. The lens and sensors are too small in smartphones to compete with high level DSLR’s when it comes to picture clarity and depth. You can still get some great shots with them though which would look great on small prints and for web use.

People keep going down the "professional" path, as if iPhones were built for professional photographers, graphic arts professionals, or video editors. Of course not.

"Professional" is simply the wrong term. iPhone is used by huge numbers of people in their day-to-day business. Contacts, calendars, reminders, driving directions, phone calls, texting, email.... And yes, many take photos as part of their work. Ask real estate brokers about the photos and videos they take for online listings, or eBay vendors posting product shots, construction contractors and interior designers documenting a job site, government officials documenting health violations, restauranteurs adding images to Yelp listings.... they're not worried about "professional quality." A smartphone camera today is likely to be better than the point-and-shoot cameras they used to carry in addition to their flip phones, and because it's part of a communications device, it's dead easy to immediately share those images with co-workers, sub-contractors, clients, etc.

There are huge numbers of people who use smartphones as an integral part of their day-to-day business dealings and for whom the inconvenience and lost time involved in changing platforms (whether iOS to Android or vice versa) would be far worse than paying a $250 price increase to stay within their current platform.

A real estate agent pays far, far more for their car than their phone, yet their phone may make an equal or greater contribution to his/her business success. They may pay more for one month's worth of auto insurance than they'd pay once every two years on a new iPhone's 25% tariff. When a single missed sale may be worth tens of thousands of dollars, what's $250?

Real professionals (people who use a smart phone as an integral part of their business life) will not be deterred by a price increase. They'll complain, they'll delay the next purchase as much as possible, but the vast majority of them will pay the price.

As to anyone who says, "Apple should absorb the cost..." This is the same consumer mentality that has caused countless smaller businesses to fail; businesses that are afraid to alienate their customers when a price increase would otherwise be necessary. Instead, they take a smaller profit, or even a loss. It can be "death by a thousand small cuts."

What's the difference between whether it's an increase in the cost of labor or raw materials, or a tariff? The business has a choice of making less money on every sale to every customer by swallowing the cost increase, or risk losing some customers altogether by raising prices. In the end, it's often better to raise prices.

Protective tariffs are intended to raise the price of imported goods, to discourage the purchase of those goods. It's not a tax on the manufacturer (or foreign country), it's a tax on the consumer, to modify the consumer's behavior. If Apple (or any other affected business) absorbs that cost rather than passes it along, then the consumer won't modify his/her behavior.

The foreign country pays a price only if consumers buy less of those goods. If consumers are either insulated from the tariff (the seller absorbs the cost), or are willing to pay the tariff, then the tariff is not effective at its stated goal. In that case, the one thing it is effective at is increasing government revenues - a tax increase by a different name.

And if companies were to absorb these tariffs, rather than pass them to consumers? Eventually the tariffs would go even higher. Governments that play the protective tariff game don't just give up when they don't obtain the desired results; like a Medieval torture device, they ratchet rates up until the pain inflicted delivers the desired result.
 
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People keep going down the "professional" path, as if iPhones were built for professional photographers, graphic arts professionals, or video editors. Of course not.

"Professional" is simply the wrong term. iPhone is used by huge numbers of people in their day-to-day business. Contacts, calendars, reminders, driving directions, phone calls, texting, email.... And yes, many take photos as part of their work. Ask real estate brokers about the photos and videos they take for online listings, or eBay vendors posting product shots, construction contractors and interior designers documenting a job site, government officials documenting health violations, restauranteurs adding images to Yelp listings.... they're not worried about "professional quality." A smartphone camera today is likely to be better than the point-and-shoot cameras they used to carry in addition to their flip phones, and because it's part of a communications device, it's dead easy to immediately share those images with co-workers, sub-contractors, clients, etc.

There are huge numbers of people who use smartphones as an integral part of their day-to-day business dealings and for whom the inconvenience and lost time involved in changing platforms (whether iOS to Android or vice versa) would be far worse than paying a $250 price increase to stay within their current platform.

A real estate agent pays far, far more for their car than their phone, yet their phone may make an equal or greater contribution to his/her business success. They may pay more for one month's worth of auto insurance than they'd pay once every two years on a new iPhone's 25% tariff. When a single missed sale may be worth tens of thousands of dollars, what's $250?

Real professionals (people who use a smart phone as an integral part of their business life) will not be deterred by a price increase. They'll complain, they'll delay the next purchase as much as possible, but the vast majority of them will pay the price.

As to anyone who says, "Apple should absorb the cost..." This is the same consumer mentality that has caused countless smaller businesses to fail; businesses that are afraid to alienate their customers when a price increase would otherwise be necessary. Instead, they take a smaller profit, or even a loss. It can be "death by a thousand small cuts."

What's the difference between whether it's an increase in the cost of labor or raw materials, or a tariff? The business has a choice of making less money on every sale to every customer by swallowing the cost increase, or risk losing some customers altogether by raising prices. In the end, it's often better to raise prices.

Protective tariffs are intended to raise the price of imported goods, to discourage the purchase of those goods. It's not a tax on the manufacturer (or foreign country), it's a tax on the consumer, to modify the consumer's behavior. If Apple (or any other affected business) absorbs that cost rather than passes it along, then the consumer won't modify his/her behavior.

The foreign country pays a price only if consumers buy less of those goods. If consumers are either insulated from the tariff (the seller absorbs the cost), or are willing to pay the tariff, then the tariff is not effective at its stated goal. In that case, the one thing it is effective at is increasing government revenues - a tax increase by a different name.

And if companies were to absorb these tariffs, rather than pass them to consumers? Eventually the tariffs would go even higher. Governments that play the protective tariff game don't just give up when they don't obtain the desired results; like a Medieval torture device, they ratchet rates up until the pain inflicted delivers the desired result.
Currently the iPhone 7 and 8 is the most widely used business phones due to the fact they are reasonably priced. I see this with my own company and when attending conferences etc. You say businesses will absorb the cost but it will push businesses to buy older handsets more likely. I doubt many companies are buying iPhone XS’s for their sales teams and estate agents sporting current flagship phones are likely using their own devices.

I think America is about to experience what Europe has been seeing for the past 3 or 4 years. We pay more for iPhones than they do and consumer spending habits have changed to suit prices going higher. Some people will ‘just pay’ the higher price but the majority adapt and look for better value which is why the XR sells 7 units to every XS in my local Apple Store and the iPhone 8 has been a healthy seller too.
 
if the price goes up 15% less people will be upgrading as often.
I’ve seen people using iPhone 5S and 6 in my everyday travels. So they are already keeping the phones longer
There’s no winner in this.... sales go down, customers pay more and it just doesn’t work
 
Currently the iPhone 7 and 8 is the most widely used business phones due to the fact they are reasonably priced. I see this with my own company and when attending conferences etc. You say businesses will absorb the cost but it will push businesses to buy older handsets more likely. I doubt many companies are buying iPhone XS’s for their sales teams and estate agents sporting current flagship phones are likely using their own devices.

I think America is about to experience what Europe has been seeing for the past 3 or 4 years. We pay more for iPhones than they do and consumer spending habits have changed to suit prices going higher. Some people will ‘just pay’ the higher price but the majority adapt and look for better value which is why the XR sells 7 units to every XS in my local Apple Store and the iPhone 8 has been a healthy seller too.

What you're saying here confirms what I'm saying in one key way - people aren't switching to another platform. They may have to adjust their sights as to model if their goal is to pay the same amount this year for a new iPhone as they spent 2 or 3 years ago on their previous iPhone. Businesses that prefer to buy two-year-old models will continue to do so. But phones are often a business necessity, and are cheap in the grand scheme of business costs.

The cost of monthly phone service will not be affected by this tariff, so assuming the amortized monthly cost of the phone is roughly equal to the monthly service charge (which is generous, as a $750 phone is $31 paid over 24 months, and monthly service tends to be $40/month or higher), a 25% increase in hardware cost is diluted to a 12.5% increase in the overall phone budget.

There's no real difference between consumer behavior in the US vs. Europe. What Europe has seen that the US has not is exchange rate-driven price increases. Now, the US will begin to see something similar, but driven by tariffs. In either case, some are able to pay the higher price, others will have to adjust their sights on a lower-cost model, or delay their purchase. If change is to come, it won't be Apple's pricing, it'll be a matter of who sits in the White House.

And if this tariff war has a negative effect on the USD, maybe the rest of the world will start seeing lower prices on iPhones, putting an XS (or whatever the upcoming equivalent will be called) within reach for a larger portion of the population.

However, the sales of the XR vs. the XS shouldn't be a surprise, anywhere in the world. The XS represented a new, super-premium price category, not the "normal" upgrade price. A person who paid around $700 for an 8 or X when they were brand-new models and expects to pay something similar on their next iPhone, will get an XR (or whatever the next XR-equivalent model will be called).

The point of XR, as far as I'm concerned, has been to move the cost-is-no-object crowd up to a new level, not to move the entire universe of iPhone buyers up. Every auto-maker does this, whether with separate branding (Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Chevrolet/Buick/Cadillac), or the many different Series of BMW.

I think Apple was right to do this. I have no sympathy for those who can afford to pay a higher price. The US keeps cutting taxes on upper-income individuals - it's no crime, as far as I'm concerned, to separate them from a bit of that windfall.

But the real bottom line is that tariffs, like VAT and other consumption taxes, are regressive - they fall hardest on those who are least able to pay. Unlike Europe's social democracies, the US is one of the worst in the world at redistribution of wealth (oh, farmers are getting new subsidies, but you can be sure we won't be more generous with Food Stamps). We'd rather sustain the capitalist illusion of "competition" in healthcare and continue to treat healthcare as a privilege of the wealthy and well-employed, then cut out the insurance companies and make it a human right for all. Compared to that, the tariff-adjusted price of an iPhone is meaningless.
 
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if the price goes up 15% less people will be upgrading as often.

Regardless, the iPhone prices have already held Consumers at bay from upgrading, A tariff or not, doesn’t change the fact of what smart phone prices are currently that still isn’t ‘consumer friendly’ in terms of upgrading a smart phone that they don’t necessarily have to.
 
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What you're saying here confirms what I'm saying in one key way - people aren't switching to another platform. They may have to adjust their sights as to model if their goal is to pay the same amount this year for a new iPhone as they spent 2 or 3 years ago on their previous iPhone. Businesses that prefer to buy two-year-old models will continue to do so. But phones are often a business necessity, and are cheap in the grand scheme of business costs.

The cost of monthly phone service will not be affected by this tariff, so assuming the amortized monthly cost of the phone is roughly equal to the monthly service charge (which is generous, as a $750 phone is $31 paid over 24 months, and monthly service tends to be $40/month or higher), a 25% increase in hardware cost is diluted to a 12.5% increase in the overall phone budget.

There's no real difference between consumer behavior in the US vs. Europe. What Europe has seen that the US has not is exchange rate-driven price increases. Now, the US will begin to see something similar, but driven by tariffs. In either case, some are able to pay the higher price, others will have to adjust their sights on a lower-cost model, or delay their purchase. If change is to come, it won't be Apple's pricing, it'll be a matter of who sits in the White House.

And if this tariff war has a negative effect on the USD, maybe the rest of the world will start seeing lower prices on iPhones, putting an XS (or whatever the upcoming equivalent will be called) within reach for a larger portion of the population.

However, the sales of the XR vs. the XS shouldn't be a surprise, anywhere in the world. The XS represented a new, super-premium price category, not the "normal" upgrade price. A person who paid around $700 for an 8 or X when they were brand-new models and expects to pay something similar on their next iPhone, will get an XR (or whatever the next XR-equivalent model will be called).

The point of XR, as far as I'm concerned, has been to move the cost-is-no-object crowd up to a new level, not to move the entire universe of iPhone buyers up. Every auto-maker does this, whether with separate branding (Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Chevrolet/Buick/Cadillac), or the many different Series of BMW.

I think Apple was right to do this. I have no sympathy for those who can afford to pay a higher price. The US keeps cutting taxes on upper-income individuals - it's no crime, as far as I'm concerned, to separate them from a bit of that windfall.

But the real bottom line is that tariffs, like VAT and other consumption taxes, are regressive - they fall hardest on those who are least able to pay. Unlike Europe's social democracies, the US is one of the worst in the world at redistribution of wealth (oh, farmers are getting new subsidies, but you can be sure we won't be more generous with Food Stamps). We'd rather sustain the capitalist illusion of "competition" in healthcare and continue to treat healthcare as a privilege of the wealthy and well-employed, then cut out the insurance companies and make it a human right for all. Compared to that, the tariff-adjusted price of an iPhone is meaningless.
Indeed. I think the only party that really loses ultimately are the companies supplying the goods. Consumers adjust to what they are comfortable paying as you say, and this will have some form of effect on companies like Apple if they pass on the increase, I don’t they have much choice though.

Britain is also one of the worst for the distributions wealth too as our politics are currently showing but that is another topic altogether. I think it’ll be interesting to see how Apple react over the next 12 months as all manufacturers are trying to cope with a market that is not only shrinking but full of consumers looking for better value.
 
Gotcha ya...I can see just years of increase’s and only some years of advancement over other phones. This is the perfect time for other companies to put out top notch products undercutting them in the process and gaining market share.

You’re forgetting those other phones will also be impacted by those same tariffs. Everyone’s prices will rise, not just Apple’s.
 
I’m sure I’d figure out a way to do it. I might keep phones longer than before, but as long as they make iPhones, that’s what I’ll be using. I’m not using Android anything.
 
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You’re forgetting those other phones will also be impacted by those same tariffs. Everyone’s prices will rise, not just Apple’s.

Yes but they were never the most expensive phone on the market. So the other companies will always have that edge.
[doublepost=1558450559][/doublepost]
I’m sure I’d figure out a way to do it. I might keep phones longer than before, but as long as they make iPhones, that’s what I’ll be using. I’m not using Android anything.

Have you used one recently? They are getting much better. The OS is getting much better and they give you more freedom over it and it’s use. It really is far more advanced for customizations. And let’s face it, they are coming with newer tech first. If you like that sort of thing.
 
Yes but they were never the most expensive phone on the market. So the other companies will always have that edge.
[doublepost=1558450559][/doublepost]

Have you used one recently? They are getting much better. The OS is getting much better and they give you more freedom over it and it’s use. It really is far more advanced for customizations. And let’s face it, they are coming with newer tech first. If you like that sort of thing.

Nope, and probably won't try one. It's just the entire ecosystem of Apple's I like, and the way all my tech works together seamlessly.
 
What you're saying here confirms what I'm saying in one key way - people aren't switching to another platform. They may have to adjust their sights as to model if their goal is to pay the same amount this year for a new iPhone as they spent 2 or 3 years ago on their previous iPhone. Businesses that prefer to buy two-year-old models will continue to do so. But phones are often a business necessity, and are cheap in the grand scheme of business costs.

The cost of monthly phone service will not be affected by this tariff, so assuming the amortized monthly cost of the phone is roughly equal to the monthly service charge (which is generous, as a $750 phone is $31 paid over 24 months, and monthly service tends to be $40/month or higher), a 25% increase in hardware cost is diluted to a 12.5% increase in the overall phone budget.

There's no real difference between consumer behavior in the US vs. Europe. What Europe has seen that the US has not is exchange rate-driven price increases. Now, the US will begin to see something similar, but driven by tariffs. In either case, some are able to pay the higher price, others will have to adjust their sights on a lower-cost model, or delay their purchase. If change is to come, it won't be Apple's pricing, it'll be a matter of who sits in the White House.

And if this tariff war has a negative effect on the USD, maybe the rest of the world will start seeing lower prices on iPhones, putting an XS (or whatever the upcoming equivalent will be called) within reach for a larger portion of the population.

However, the sales of the XR vs. the XS shouldn't be a surprise, anywhere in the world. The XS represented a new, super-premium price category, not the "normal" upgrade price. A person who paid around $700 for an 8 or X when they were brand-new models and expects to pay something similar on their next iPhone, will get an XR (or whatever the next XR-equivalent model will be called).

The point of XR, as far as I'm concerned, has been to move the cost-is-no-object crowd up to a new level, not to move the entire universe of iPhone buyers up. Every auto-maker does this, whether with separate branding (Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Chevrolet/Buick/Cadillac), or the many different Series of BMW.

I think Apple was right to do this. I have no sympathy for those who can afford to pay a higher price. The US keeps cutting taxes on upper-income individuals - it's no crime, as far as I'm concerned, to separate them from a bit of that windfall.

But the real bottom line is that tariffs, like VAT and other consumption taxes, are regressive - they fall hardest on those who are least able to pay. Unlike Europe's social democracies, the US is one of the worst in the world at redistribution of wealth (oh, farmers are getting new subsidies, but you can be sure we won't be more generous with Food Stamps). We'd rather sustain the capitalist illusion of "competition" in healthcare and continue to treat healthcare as a privilege of the wealthy and well-employed, then cut out the insurance companies and make it a human right for all. Compared to that, the tariff-adjusted price of an iPhone is meaningless.

You speak of success and competition as if they were bad things.
 
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