If Apple was actually serious about gaming and wanted to create it's own version of a Steam Machine how should they do it?

[maflynn]

The bulk of my point is you were making performance comparisons when the systems in question were not running at the same settings. Your M4 Mac Mini would likely have been fine to run the games you play if you were willing to live with reduced settings (and lower resolution).

I was addressing a comparison that highlighted the differences between one product running games via wine and another. I agree that resolutions and other settings can alter the performance. It was supposed to be a more superficial comment on how the MBA isn't equivalent to a steam product running proton. That's all.

 

[diamond.g]

I was addressing a comparison that highlighted the differences between one product running games via wine and another. I agree that resolutions and other settings can alter the performance. It was supposed to be a more superficial comment on how the MBA isn't equivalent to a steam product running proton. That's all.

That is fair. If Apple added Crossover support officially (as in the OS runs PC games in bottles on it's own) and they started putting said PC games in the Mac App Store, maybe the needle would move some?

 

[maflynn]

If Apple added Crossover support officially (as in the OS runs PC games in bottles on it's own)

Oddly enough, that very thought was running through my tiny brain yesterday.

It reminded me of OS/2 and the problems IBM ran into with lack of native apps. Their solution was to run windows 3 (or 3.1) apps via emulation. The problem with that line of thought is that developers had no motivation to port their code, and those same apps ran much slower then under windows - making it a less appealing platform.

As I see it with that thought exercise, Apple is between the horns of a dilemma imo.
Horn one is making money from gaming - the only way for them see any benefit is to have the games on the MAS. Games hosted on steam does not benefit apple's bottom line. They need to convince publishers not only to port their games to Mac but also host them on the Mac App Store - otherwise they have no financial benefit.

Horn two is that if they buy crossover, and integrate into macos, then developers have little to no motivation to port the games and thus keeping it off the MAS. In a twisted sort of way, Valve understands this and they were not trying to add a native platform other then having windows compatibility. This is the genius of their plan, have a product that plays windows games and not worry about wooing developers (there's still some wooing since they want these games to run on proton).

 

[dmccloud]

That is fair. If Apple added Crossover support officially (as in the OS runs PC games in bottles on it's own) and they started putting said PC games in the Mac App Store, maybe the needle would move some?

The Game Porting Toolkit itself uses Crossover source code, and has since it was first introduced. That being said, the GPTK is intended for developers to test their games on Mac OS and see what tweaks would need to be made rather than having to rewrite everything from scratch. It was never intended to be a Proton-like layer for end users, although that quickly became the case as people realized they could run all sorts of games via the GPTK.

 

[yellowhelicopter]

It was never intended to be a Proton-like layer for end users, although that quickly became the case as people realized they could run all sorts of games via the GPTK.

Yes. So I'd like it to become intended Proton-like layer and repurposed for users too not only devs, as it really works great and runs surprisingly fine most Windows games I personally throw in it.

 

[Zest28]

The steam machine is an unreleased desktop, where as the steam deck and the MBA are out in the wilds that comparison is fair

Let me reword my post, When Leman mentioned that apple already has a steam machine, I took that to be the steam deck, not an unreleased product. Additionally comparing the m4 capabilities vs the steam deck's capabilities is fair imo

The Steam Deck is a handheld device. So it should be compared to an iPhone or an iPad.

And Apple is not going to make a "Steam machine", because the Playstation 5 Pro has around 17 TLOPs, which is around the same ballpark as the M4 Max.

And Apple is not going to sell M4 Max "Steam Machines" under $1000. So the Apple "Steam machine" is dead on arrival, and that is not even taking into account the limited amount of games it can run relative to a Playstation 5 Pro.

However, Apple is doing fine in gaming as the biggest gaming market in 2025 is mobile gaming (smartphones / tablets).

 

[maflynn]

The Steam Deck is a handheld device. So it should be compared to an iPhone or an iPad.

Should it?

In all honesty I don't know too many folks doing that comparison.

It aligns most closely with gaming laptops and consoles. Don't forget that the its running a desktop class OS, playing PC games and those games are not your typical fremium ios games. They're AAA which is largely absent in the iOS realm. Also consider that mobile gaming market (iOS) is a lot different as it largely targets a different audience.

Just because both are held in the hand makes them in the same class, they're not - just my $.02

 

[Zest28]

Should it?

In all honesty I don't know too many folks doing that comparison.

It aligns most closely with gaming laptops and consoles. Don't forget that the its running a desktop class OS, playing PC games and those games are not your typical fremium ios games. They're AAA which is largely absent in the iOS realm. Also consider that mobile gaming market (iOS) is a lot different as it largely targets a different audience.

Just because both are held in the hand makes them in the same class, they're not - just my $.02

Not really. Asus has their own Steam Deck device, called the Asus ROG Ally X, which is a hand held device like the Steam Deck. But they also have something similar to a 13" MBA and 14" MBP, which is the ROG Zephyrus G14 (thin 14" gaming laptop). And it is quite obvious the MBA should be compared to Asus their thin and light laptops, and not their handheld devices.

Devices like the Nintendo Switch, Steam Deck, ASUS ROG Ally X, Lenovo Legion Go S are not laptops really, these companies (except for Nintendo) even have their own dedicated gaming laptops.

Btw, there are tablets that run desktop class OS, such as the Microsoft Surface. It is running Windows 11.

Also, both Android and Steam OS are a fork of Linux. So they are not that different. And Steam Deck is winning because Steam OS is not like a "Desktop OS", it is custom made for the Steam Deck in mind without all the annoying things of Windows.

 

[maflynn]

Asus has their own Steam Deck device, called the Asus ROG Ally X, which is a hand held device like the Steam Deck

Yep, and so the steam deck and Rog ally are competitors and are in the same category.

But they also have something similar to a 13" MBA and 14" MBP,

Agreed, we're comparing PC type gaming on the steam deck with that of a laptop - that was my first point

Devices like the Nintendo Switch, Steam Deck, ASUS ROG Ally X, Lenovo Legion Go S are not laptops really, these companies (except for Nintendo) even have their own dedicated gaming laptops.

Agreed, the Lenovo go and ally X play the same games as a gaming laptop and so they're more closely aligned with that class of machine because they literally run the same operating system and games. The steam deck plays the same games, but it runs a desktop version of Linux, not windows.

 

[diamond.g]

Yep, and so the steam deck and Rog ally are competitors and are in the same category.


Agreed, we're comparing PC type gaming on the steam deck with that of a laptop - that was my first point


Agreed, the Lenovo go and ally X play the same games as a gaming laptop and so they're more closely aligned with that class of machine because they literally run the same operating system and games. The steam deck plays the same games, but it runs a desktop version of Linux, not windows.

What if you separated them by primary input device?

 

[jlnr]

Horn one is making money from gaming - the only way for them see any benefit is to have the games on the MAS. Games hosted on steam does not benefit apple's bottom line.

That is true if Apple wants to become a service company. But I would imagine that games are also a good reminder to buy a new laptop every now and then.