If face authentication comes to the next iPhone, imagine if...

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by Pfunstuff, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. Pfunstuff macrumors member

    Pfunstuff

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    #1
    Ever since reading about the rumors of face authentication potentialy popping up in the next iPhone release, I've been very excited about it. I'm not getting my hopes up too high, as everything is simply speculation at this point until we see the presentation. However, thinking about different implementations of the technology is interesting. I know a lot of people are worried about losing Touch ID, but honestly, I'm all for it if face authentication is implemented well. I've been brainstorming on different ways the technology could be used in the iPhone. I'm going to refer to it as Face ID for the remainder of the post.

    Imagine if...

    Face ID could authenticate your face before you go to use Apple Pay and then provide you with a small window of time to hold your phone near the terminal to complete the transaction. This would be similar to how Samsung Pay works in that you don't have to keep your finger on the fingerprint scanner during the entirety of the transaction. You authenticate and then hold the phone near the terminal. In this regard, people wouldn't have to be worried about the awkwardness of keeping their face in front of the phone while holding the phone next to the terminal.

    Imagine if...

    Face ID could automatically lock your phone if someone took it from you. The cameras could quickly detect and scan the face in order to lock the phone upon realizing it's not your face. Obviously, there would need to be measures in place to prevent this action if you voluntarily gave your phone to someone. This would be a nice security feature nonetheless.

    Imagine if...

    Face ID could be used to scan your facial expressions (i.e. smiling, frowning, angry) to insert emojis into your text similar to how Siri dictation works with texting. This is probably a little bit more of a stretch in regards to implementing, but it could be fun for those that enjoy emojis especially considering the time Apple has invested with emojis and iMessages.

    Imagine if…

    Face ID could be used in an App Store game where it scans a user's face to attempt to detect the user's age. I know this is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things, but I'm sure there are those who would download it to try for fun. There are surely many ideas where it could be used with games.

    Imagine if…

    Face ID could scan a user's face and automatically locate all pictures in the Photos app that contain that person's face. Apple already uses face detecting algorithms to group people based on their face. It wouldn't be a far stretch to see these two work in conjunction to perhaps find a specific picture of someone or create an album of them.

    Imagine if…

    Face ID could be used to scan a user's face in order to detect a smile that could be used to coexist with the action of pressing the shutter button for the Camera app. For a front or rear facing picture, simply smile, Face ID defects the smile, initiates camera focusing, and snaps a picture.

    These are just a few ideas I've come up with. I'd love to hear input from others. Ideas, concerns, criticisms, or anything else to do with the technology or the potential loss of Touch ID are welcome.
     
  2. PeLaNo macrumors regular

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  3. michael9891 macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    If Apple do get rid of Touch ID in favour of Face ID, I'd imagine they'd have thought it through properly and have some good ideas for it's use. Probably like Touch ID, it'll get better over time. The 6S Touch ID worked a lot better than the 6.
     
  4. MrLoL macrumors 6502

    MrLoL

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    #4
    All of these incredibly good ideas should be reported to bug report or Tim Cook's email (post-announcement)
     
  5. TheRealAlex macrumors 65816

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    #5

    Face ID is About 3 Things everything else are justified ulterior motives about Emojis security and other BS. Face ID is about.

    #1. Marketing and Ads, imagine when your friend hands you their phone to use FaceID knows hey that's Alex I recognize his face from his Apple ID.
    #2. Again further Tracking, You walk into Target and their cameras as you Walk In scan your FaceID and immediately send you coupons to the Target App or a Text because they know hey Alex 25 Male just walked into Target. Or Best Buy, and they build up your habits very quickly. Hey this guy visits Target and Best Buy almost every other Sunday (they are next to each other). This is a Marketers holy grail.
    #3. If Snowden revealed that FBI, NSA etc can turn on Your phone and listen to you without your knowledge imagine now or very soon every picture you take whether you have it enabled or Not has FaceID

    Lastly, if you guys use YouTube logged in It's Scary how well YouTube starts to suggest video you like based on what you watch or rewatch. Now after a month it gets boring Youtube now only shows you What you like diversity and variety are gone. But you happen to stop by An Apple Store and Browse YouTube and You see amazing new Videos you just don't see anymore at Home because YouTube only shows you what you like. What Google and YouTube want is for Face ID is to scan your face and say "Hey Look It's Alex we recognize his profile but he's not at his Home PC, change the Video options he is shown to better match his demographic" So it's like living in this Bubble of News and Videos only targets to you.
     
  6. Pfunstuff thread starter macrumors member

    Pfunstuff

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    #6
    Isn't a big reason Apple Pay is used is to keep consumer profiles out of the hands of retailers? I would think if a face could be used for targeted ads a fingerprint could be as well. I haven't noticed any increased ad targeting since using a phone with Touch ID. I would think it depends on how willing Apple is to grant access to those consumer profiles. I would imagine Face ID would be protected, to some extent, by the Secure Enclave. I would also imagine Apple would treat those Face ID profiles no different than any other consumer information they claim to protect as they do with Apple Pay.

    As for government agencies, I would think they probably have more than enough means to access us through our phones anyway. If they can turn our phones on and listen to us at anytime, as you claim, then what difference will it really make if Face ID is added? It sounds like it's already easy enough for them to spy on us even right now based on what you stated. I'm not saying you're wrong on anything you've said. I'm just trying to understand how Touch ID would be any safer than Face ID in regards to targeted ads or government agencies spying on us. As a side note, I've heard of Snowden, but was not really up to speed on it until you mentioned briefly what it was about.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 7, 2017 ---
    Thank you! :)
    --- Post Merged, Aug 7, 2017 ---
    This is exactly the way I feel. It's also the primary reason I'm not at all concerned about Face ID or the possibility of losing Touch ID. I feel if Face ID is ready to come to the iPhone and potentially replace Touch ID, then Apple has done enough testing and is confident the user experience will be the same or better as it is now. I've come to rely on and love Touch ID, but I won't miss it if Face ID is just as seamless or even better.
     
  7. TheRealAlex, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017

    TheRealAlex macrumors 65816

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    #7

    Getting Rid of Touch ID is just another Means of cost Savings, they can get Rid of the Saphhire Glass they can get rid of the Finger Print sensor. Probably saves them 0.50 cents Multiplied by 60 Million Phones
    Thing is Theres No Turning Back From Face ID it simply will become Part of Apple ID. Where as Touch ID was optional

    And do we Trust Apple Sure I do. Yes But theres always that Data Breach Where Hackers from Russia or China or an organized crime group hacks in and Steals All Your Face ID biometrics. Which are like Connected Dots turning your face into a Finger Print. Now that Data is Online, and Soon Any Camera anywhere can Scan public streets, PC's other phones and if seen. Instantly knows Your Face ID matches your Apple ID data.

    Heck At least I can protect my Finger print data. Thats ALOT Safer to keep private and hidden.
     
  8. se1000 macrumors 6502

    se1000

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    #8
    Imagine if...

    Police suspected you of a crime and wanted access to your iPhone/iCloud, they could just stick it up to your face.

    Imagine if...

    Someone at a bar wanted to steal your iPhone, they could potentially do something like just quickly put a case on it, open the camera and ask to take a selfie with you, essentially unlocking the phone.

    Imagine if...

    Someone you live with wanted to play a prank, or a kid in the household got your iPhone while you were sleeping.
     
  9. TheRealAlex, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017

    TheRealAlex macrumors 65816

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    #9

    Its Also about Retail Shopping, Every Store Uses Video Anaylytics To review Where Shopper Are Stand and Looking at Displays Right Now they Know 400 people a day stand for 30 seconds Looking at the Bread Section. With FaceID soon they will know How Many Males vs Females And Ages and Ethnicity Apple will for sure Sell Non-User Identifyable Data. But For Coupons You Can Always Opt-In and in many Cases the Dafault is Opted-In allowing you to Opt_out only after find the setting Burried under 4 menu pages.

    Airports and Schools will use FaceID to unobtrusively detect if an Individual is allowed in a certain area. Schools will Require kids from a young age to register for FaceID to mark for Attendance.

    Now I say FaceID but I mean all types of Facial recognition systems. Cars will also have FaceID for Insurance Reasons. Your car insurance company will register that You are Not the actual person driving your car. Now you can always Opt-Out but your insurance rates will be much higher.

    All these things are done Slowly in Fun ways, to lure people into fun ways of accepting this type of mass control and taking of freedom. First its fun video games, then its SnapChat and funny face filters, then its Apple FaceID and Emoji faces. Then its Required for Apple ID and Payment.
     
  10. BigMcGuire Contributor

    BigMcGuire

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    #10
    As someone who had the Note 3 with "facial recognition" - it didn't work well at all especially once the sun went down. As long as it doesn't replace touch-id that works. What I REALLY liked about the Note 3 was that it could detect if you were looking at the device so it wouldn't turn off the screen if you were reading something.

    I use my phone a lot at night as I work during the day. Last thing I need is my phone blasting my eyes out with an LED flash just to get a facial recognition.

    I've watched Person of Interest. LOVED that show. Do I believe people and Govt. agencies can do that to phones? Yeah, maybe not as EASILY as on the show, but definitely.

    I have a big bushy beard (2x as big as my photo atm) that I, due to laziness, don't shave very often. I wonder how this will affect things.
     
  11. Pfunstuff thread starter macrumors member

    Pfunstuff

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    #11
    First point would apply here too. Even if they used your face while you were sleeping, it would auto lock on them after a set amount of time. I suppose if they tried to hold the phone to your face the entire time while accessing it, they could. Someone is probably likely to wake up though. There could even be an option to disable it while sleeping or require your eyes to be open in order for it to work. That may be a requirement anyway if retinal scanning somehow comes bundled and works alongside Face ID. Just throwing ideas around of course. As it is right now, nothing is stopping someone from putting your finger on the Touch ID sensor while you're sleeping especially if they know the fingers you have profiled. Someone not knowing would obviously have 10 potential options and that could likely wake you up, but I wouldn't see that being that much less likely to wake you up if they had to try and hold the phone in front of your face while you slept in an effort to go through your phone.

    I liked your counter arguments. Thank you ;)
    --- Post Merged, Aug 7, 2017 ---
    Great points you bring up. Did the Note 3 use an LED flash to facial scan? I've heard forum members mention the idea of using infrared which seems like a better option especially for night time or low light use. This wouldn't require any type of flash you could see with your eyes. I also feel Apple wouldn't bring it to the phone if it worked how you describe Samsung's implementation as working. I've never tried their facial scanner, so I don't know how well it works. I think if it's not on par with Touch ID in terms of speed, accuracy, and security, there's no way it will replace it. If it is, I could see it potentially replacing Touch ID.

    As for your beard, I'm not sure. Maybe enough data points could be gathered from other parts of your face that that would be more important in determining who you are. For example, combining the distances between both eyes, each eye to your nose, and maybe a few other days points that would be unique to you and not affected by your beard. Obviously, it would probably work similar to Touch ID in that the more it scans your face, the better profile of you it builds in order to increase accuracy.
     
  12. BigMcGuire Contributor

    BigMcGuire

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    #12
    @Pfunstuff - It didn't use the flash as far as I remembered. Good info on the infrared. I know my beard grows crazy insanely fast (ugh). Going to be fun playing with this facial recognition stuff someday. :)
     
  13. Pfunstuff thread starter macrumors member

    Pfunstuff

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    #13
    Excellent points. I guess with regards to many things you bring up, it really boils down to how willing Apple will be to sell Non-User Identifiable data. They seem to be pretty keen on protecting user information. Perhaps they've thought of many points you bring up and would not sell the information for some of those reasons. I guess only time will tell.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 7, 2017 ---
    I'm really looking forward to it if it does indeed show up. If anyone can do it correctly, it's Apple. I know there are some people that have issues with Touch ID with regard to dry skin or fingerprints that are not as easily detectable, but it has been flawless for me ever since I've used it in the 5S. If Face ID can be as seamless as Touch ID, sign me up!
     
  14. se1000 macrumors 6502

    se1000

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    #14
    You don't need much to get completely compromised. Setting up a simple email forwarder can be later used to wreak havoc on someone's life or be the root of a privacy leak.

    Accurate and reliable biometric ID systems do not necessarily ensure overall end to end security. Just keep that in mind
     
  15. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

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    #15
    I don't even want to imagine about losing Touch ID...
     
  16. Ralfi macrumors 6502a

    Ralfi

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    #16
    Just thought of another benefit Face ID could provide - Now, with a locked phone, when you ask Siri to open an App, she replies with a "you need to unlock your iPhone first".

    With Face ID, you could ask Siri the same question, but with your face in range (& no need to use your finger/hand, allowing you to continue working away), your face would unlock the phone & open the App.
     
  17. AppleComputer macrumors member

    AppleComputer

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    #17
    I want minority report level advertising experience lol
     
  18. Pfunstuff thread starter macrumors member

    Pfunstuff

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    #18
    This is a great point. I like it ;)
     
  19. HEK Suspended

    HEK

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    #19
    How about Face ID locking up phone if it sees a police badge on body of scanned face. Or keyed to letter sequences to lock phone, FBI, NSA, CIA, ATT. Instant security :rolleyes:
    --- Post Merged, Aug 8, 2017 ---
    So you going with 7s or 7s Plus?
     
  20. ssrij Suspended

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    #20
    1) Same with TouchID. A cop can force you to unlock your iPhone with your fingerprint. https://www.cultofmac.com/301735/cops-can-force-use-touch-id-passcode/

    2) And what does that achieve? They will still need to authenticate to change the passcode/remove FaceID or remove the device from iCloud. They will not be able to do that without FaceID or entering the passcode or Apple ID password. So even if they steal the iPhone and manage to unlock, they won't be able to do much with it, as they can't keep it unlocked forever. Also, according to the HomePod leaks, the iPhone will lock itself it it sees an unfamiliar face.

    3) Same applies to TouchID. They can grab your iPhone and put your finger on the reader and unlock the phone. Anyway, I think FaceID will only work when the eyes are open. Apple isn't a dumb company.
     
  21. Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Face ID metrics would be kept on the device as Apple will describe during the keynote and in every single marketing thing related to it. Ever heard of that secure enclave? It's impossible for anyone to hack your fingerprint because it's stored on the device not in the cloud.
     
  22. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

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    #22
    Most likely I'll stay with my 7 plus for another year and hope for the best as far as Touch ID. ;)
     
  23. dogslobber macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

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    #23
    I don't do drugs. I don't do touch ID. I don't do face authentication.
     
  24. Infiniverse48 macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    You don't do comments that make sense either?
     
  25. chilman macrumors regular

    chilman

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    #25
    I personally like the touch id more than face id. I don't know why, is your smart phone store high valueable data that it needed face id to unlock? Although it sounds cool to hv the latest piece of technology, I don't see why we need these high tech face id on our phones. Yes i hv important contact numbers and other contact info on my phone, but they are not important to others. Beside is the password lock not enough to secure? Maybe some of you can elaborate on this.
     

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