If the iPhone 5S has a fingerprint scanner, I won't buy it. Anyone else?

[bmac4]

When is this going to stop ? Checked out your other threads/posts and you argue a lot. It keeps going and going and going.

What other post? On this thread or on this site? Are you singling me out for a reason? Seems like a lot of other people are arguing too.

 

[SR45]

And going and going

 

[kas23]

The government does need a warrent to confiscate you phone unless it is aquired at a crime scene and the property is believed to be owned to a suspect and relevant to the investigation. However, if someone is engaged in illict activity, they're probably smart enough not to leave incriminating evidence on their phone. .
Edit: perhaps overestimating the intelligence of criminals.

The Supreme Court has ruled electronic survelance that invloves the physical breach of one's property or the confiscation of property does require a warrent. Again, crime scene evidence collection being the exception.

Also, apart from being able to unlock your iPhone 5s, how can your fingerprint be used against you currently? Sure, if your prints can be used as evidence in a criminal trial, but I can't imagine having your print stored on your iPhone make you more likely to be framed (i've never heard of a case where a person's fingerprints have been replicated and left at a crime scene).

You are correct in that a warrant is needed for the authorities to physically search through the contents of your phone. But, for them to access data associated with your phone (location, any cloud data accessed by your phone) is a different story. Data mining by the authorities is not cool. Since Siri voice search and commands are sent to a centralized server (which is not a requirement since Android completes voice searches locally), it's not a stretch to believe that fingerprint data could be held on an Apple centralized server and accessed as needed by users. The problem: it's fair game for the authorities.

Is authorized access to a fingerprint database a problem for people not breaking any law? Probably not. But, fingerprint technology has a 0.2% false match rate. Seems small, but if 100 million fingerprints are on file, that links 200,000 innocent people to a crime scene. The false match problem doesn't current exist because only criminals are in the current databas (we know of). So, will the government access and/or keep fingerprints of innocent people? They could. They are currently recording and storing license plate location data of all cars, regardless of any crime committed.

 

[Zerilos]

Is authorized access to a fingerprint database a problem for people not breaking any law? Probably not. But, fingerprint technology has a 0.2% false match rate. Seems small, but if 100 million fingerprints are on file, that links 200,000 innocent people to a crime scene. The false match problem doesn't current exist because only criminals are in the current databas (we know of). So, will the government access and/or keep fingerprints of innocent people? They could. They are currently recording and storing license plate location data of all cars, regardless of any crime committed.

It's quite likely that the fingerprint data will be stored on the chip and not accessible without physical access to the chip; however assuming it isn’t, the risk would still be miniscule and essentially statistically insignificant. Not only would this 0.2% error have to occur, but in most instances it would be fairly easy to prove that A) you were not anywhere near the area where the crime occurred, B) you had no identifiable motive C) you lacked the means. That is to say: if you live in Colorado and someone is shot with an AK-47 in Florida during a drug deal gone bad, the prosecution will need to do more than merely demonstrate that a fingerprint at the crime scene matched yours in their electronic database. There are so many hurdles for the prosecution to jump, that I believe the risk of accidental conviction to not be a legitimate concern. Of course, if the government is planning to frame you for a crime for some nefarious reason, then they won’t need you to own a 5s to do it.

 

[sonicrobby]

Maybe they will add this to the S then I have no reason what so ever to want to get the 5S.

Do you mean you arent interested in the 5S if the sensor is the only upgrade? or you wont be interested in the iPhone 5S if it has the sensor?

 

[bmac4]

Do you mean you arent interested in the 5S if the sensor is the only upgrade? or you wont be interested in the iPhone 5S if it has the sensor?

Well I had no plans for getting the 5S since I have the 5. The only reason I would upgrade would be because the iPhone 5S had some major upgrades, or if it was a redesign iphone 6 or something. The fingerprint scanner would not be enough to make me upgrade. If the iPhone 6 had the fingerprint scanner I would not avoid it because of the scanner. The scanner to me would be no reason to upgrade. What i am saying is the scanner would not get me interested in the iphone 5S if that is what Apple releases this fall. I see it as kind of pointless, but hey what do I know. It appears I am the only one that argues on this site, and that is all that I do on macrumors. So there is no need to pay attention to anything I post.

If someone thinks this is amazing and will "change everything" again then more power to them. I just don't see the need, and I hope Apple has something better and more useful they are working on.

 

[sonicrobby]

Well I had no plans for getting the 5S since I have the 5. The only reason I would upgrade would be because the iPhone 5S had some major upgrades, or if it was a redesign iphone 6 or something. The fingerprint scanner would not be enough to make me upgrade. If the iPhone 6 had the fingerprint scanner I would not avoid it because of the scanner. The scanner to me would be no reason to upgrade. What i am saying is the scanner would not get me interested in the iphone 5S if that is what Apple releases this fall. I see it as kind of pointless, but hey what do I know. It appears I am the only one that argues on this site, and that is all that I do on macrumors. So there is no need to pay attention to anything I post.

If someone thinks this is amazing and will "change everything" again then more power to them. I just don't see the need, and I hope Apple has something better and more useful they are working on.

Oh no, I agree with you. Im content with my 5, and think its ridiculous to upgrade every year. A fingerprint scanner would be nice to have, but Im just waiting to see what the 6 will have next year. I may just go ahead and wait for the 6S or 7 if there isnt a drastic change for the 6 either.

 

[BenTrovato]

Oh brother. You are going to get kidnapped for your finger and iPhone ? Give us a break. Who are you anyway ?

I hope you were being sarcastic.....

Chop down all your fingers, throw them away and you'll be fine .

----------



Wow, they can just grab a gun, shove it up your ass and threaten your life if you don't tell them. Your choice.

Obviously I'm being sarcastic, lighten up fellas

 

[bmac4]

Oh no, I agree with you. Im content with my 5, and think its ridiculous to upgrade every year. A fingerprint scanner would be nice to have, but Im just waiting to see what the 6 will have next year. I may just go ahead and wait for the 6S or 7 if there isnt a drastic change for the 6 either.

It seems that if Apple does something or is rumored to be doing something. It is the greatest thing in the world on this forum. I know, I know this is an Apple forum, but really not everything Apple has done is gold. Maps comes to mind real fast. Yea they are working on it, and it is getting better, but still nothing special. Siri was a crap shoot too. Again it is getting better, but still nothing to upgrade your iphone for.

It happens all the time here. People suggest that the next big thing from Apple is not so great, and people jump on them for saying. Apple has had bad ideas before, and things that have not worked out. Saying the fingerprint scanner is one of those things is not some crazy idea. I honestly would like to see some other things improved before we go into making this fingerprint scanner that could cost battery life, and if not done correctly cost even more security issues. I am not suggesting this company does not have there ducks in a row, but putting a fingerprint scanner for security on a phone is a big deal. It has to be perfect. I know people always say Apple does not put something on the iPhone until it is ready, but again I remind you of Apple maps. This should go through all kinds of testing before it ever comes to the iPhone. You can't have any leaks or hacks of any sort with this informations. There is just a lot at cost by adding something like this.

 

[Zerilos]

It seems that if Apple does something or is rumored to be doing something. It is the greatest thing in the world on this forum. I know, I know this is an Apple forum, but really not everything Apple has done is gold. Maps comes to mind real fast. Yea they are working on it, and it is getting better, but still nothing special. Siri was a crap shoot too. Again it is getting better, but still nothing to upgrade your iphone for.

It happens all the time here. People suggest that the next big thing from Apple is not so great, and people jump on them for saying. Apple has had bad ideas before, and things that have not worked out. Saying the fingerprint scanner is one of those things is not some crazy idea. I honestly would like to see some other things improved before we go into making this fingerprint scanner that could cost battery life, and if not done correctly cost even more security issues. I am not suggesting this company does not have there ducks in a row, but putting a fingerprint scanner for security on a phone is a big deal. It has to be perfect. I know people always say Apple does not put something on the iPhone until it is ready, but again I remind you of Apple maps. This should go through all kinds of testing before it ever comes to the iPhone. You can't have any leaks or hacks of any sort with this informations. There is just a lot at cost by adding something like this.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you. If the fingerprint scanner is flawed then it will totally suck and we'll all disable it. Those of us who like the idea realize that Apple has to make it actually work. While I think the whole Maps things was a severe overreaction to a few imperfections, you are definitely correct that Siri was a flaming turd for over a year. I use it fairly regularly now.

 

[jDW194]

With all the security concerns as of late, I would think twice about having the device I use most throughout my day having a fingerprint scanner. Even if apple didn't sell/give away the information as they might be required to, there is always the possibility of exploits and 3rd parties gaining unauthorized access to your fingerprints. Imagine what the implications of that could be?

Even if the ip5s has a 70mp camera A9 chip and prints money, I won't be getting it if it includes a fingerprint scanner (the option to turn it off wouldn't negate the possibility it could get in the wrong hands).

I wouldn't, it probably won't work near your tin foil hat!

 

[PJ.]

As Apple won't let third party browsers have access to their nitros JavaScript and doubt they would give access to our fingerprints ....

 

[cynics]

I think at least some of the people with security concerns are people that have been burned a couple times, be it by the government or a criminal. I'm talking certain rights like a firearm owner or identity theft for example. People sit around idly as the government chips away at their rights or was never the victim of identity theft and they just don't care because it doesn't effect them. THEN the say ohhh put on your tin foil hats blah blah blah paranoia...

Now I'm not saying there will be a security concern here at all. However its not paranoia when you question giving a piece of information that is unique to you to a big business that's sole purpose is to take your money.

 

[SpyderBite]

As long as there is a method to disable it, I don't really care. I don't even use a pass code lock on my iPhone or iPad. If I were to somehow lose it, I'd simply wipe it or lock it remotely from my computer. Paranoia is not in my nature.

 

[Krov7]

As long as there is a method to disable it, I don't really care. I don't even use a pass code lock on my iPhone or iPad. If I were to somehow lose it, I'd simply wipe it or lock it remotely from my computer. Paranoia is not in my nature.

"disable"

 

[bmac4]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you. If the fingerprint scanner is flawed then it will totally suck and we'll all disable it. Those of us who like the idea realize that Apple has to make it actually work. While I think the whole Maps things was a severe overreaction to a few imperfections, you are definitely correct that Siri was a flaming turd for over a year. I use it fairly regularly now.

I agree. And again I think Apple needs to take their time with this. This is the main reason I don't think it makes it onto the iPhone this year. While I am not a big fan of it right now. Apple could change my mind. It has happened before. I just hope the due diligence is taken on this, and we have something great. This is way more important to be perfect when released than Siri or Apple maps. Like I said before they can't have a mess up with this one, and then say sorry a couple of months later and everything is cool. Way too much private information is at cost here.

 

[Zerilos]

I agree. And again I think Apple needs to take their time with this. This is the main reason I don't think it makes it onto the iPhone this year. While I am not a big fan of it right now. Apple could change my mind. It has happened before. I just hope the due diligence is taken on this, and we have something great. This is way more important to be perfect when released than Siri or Apple maps. Like I said before they can't have a mess up with this one, and then say sorry a couple of months later and everything is cool. Way too much private information is at cost here.

Who is to say Apple hasn't taken their time with this? If it works, it could be awesome and if it doesn't then Apple F'd up. I won't be getting another phone until late 2014, so I'll have the benefit of being able to observe for a year before making a decision.


edit: In fairness to what you said, Siri and Maps are two examples of Apple not taking enough time so hopefully they've learned.

 

[bmac4]

Who is to say Apple hasn't taken their time with this? If it works, it could be awesome and if it doesn't then Apple F'd up. I won't be getting another phone until late 2014, so I'll have the benefit of being able to observe for a year before making a decision.


edit: In fairness to what you said, Siri and Maps are two examples of Apple not taking enough time so hopefully they've learned.

I am not saying they have not taken enough time. I have no idea if they have, or not. I have no idea if they are even planning on doing this or not, or if this is just some big rumor. I am just saying they do need to take a lot of time and do their homework. Like you I am most likely not looking for another iPhone until 2014, and hopefully by then we have seen this thing, and anything that could go wrong has been fix. This is one feature I don't want to be a early adopter on. I want other people to test this out before I do. I am not paranoid in the least, but I am not big hurry for this, and don't really need it at the moment. If it seems to work well and there are no snags, and it really blows me away then I am in. I guess I am not not holding my breath that this is going to be the future. Been wrong before though.

 

[Krov7]

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/2...home-button-fingerprint-sensor-for-iphone-5s/

 

[R.Stoychev]

To be honest I don't care, I'm in non S cycle... But if a car that you like have the fingerprint feature you will not buy it because that

 

[sracer]

The government does need a warrent to confiscate you phone unless it is aquired at a crime scene and the property is believed to be owned to a suspect and relevant to the investigation. However, if someone is engaged in illict activity, they're probably smart enough not to leave incriminating evidence on their phone. .
Edit: perhaps overestimating the intelligence of criminals.

The Supreme Court has ruled electronic survelance that invloves the physical breach of one's property or the confiscation of property does require a warrent. Again, crime scene evidence collection being the exception.

Also, apart from being able to unlock your iPhone 5s, how can your fingerprint be used against you currently? Sure, if your prints can be used as evidence in a criminal trial, but I can't imagine having your print stored on your iPhone make you more likely to be framed (i've never heard of a case where a person's fingerprints have been replicated and left at a crime scene).

You are correct in that a warrant is needed for the authorities to physically search through the contents of your phone. But, for them to access data associated with your phone (location, any cloud data accessed by your phone) is a different story. Data mining by the authorities is not cool. Since Siri voice search and commands are sent to a centralized server (which is not a requirement since Android completes voice searches locally), it's not a stretch to believe that fingerprint data could be held on an Apple centralized server and accessed as needed by users. The problem: it's fair game for the authorities.

Is authorized access to a fingerprint database a problem for people not breaking any law? Probably not. But, fingerprint technology has a 0.2% false match rate. Seems small, but if 100 million fingerprints are on file, that links 200,000 innocent people to a crime scene. The false match problem doesn't current exist because only criminals are in the current databas (we know of). So, will the government access and/or keep fingerprints of innocent people? They could. They are currently recording and storing license plate location data of all cars, regardless of any crime committed.

kas23 your observations are correct.

I find it interesting that many people limit what they believe to be possible by what they understand. If they personally can't see how something can happen, then it can't happen...or is so improbable that only a fear-mongering conspiracy nut would believe that it could happen.

Anyone who has been paying attention to security/privacy issues over the last 4 years or so should know that there are surveillance and tracking going on that no one knew was taking place. That's just what's been leaked... the full extent of it remains a secret.

The "let them track and monitor me, I have nothing to hide" attitude embraced by many appears to be rooted in an ignorance of world history. That certainly isn't going to change. But it's sad.

 

[iPhonemaster5S]

I probably would buy if it has the option of turning it off. If not I probably still will buy it.

 

[Zerilos]

kas23 your observations are correct.

I find it interesting that many people limit what they believe to be possible by what they understand. If they personally can't see how something can happen, then it can't happen...or is so improbable that only a fear-mongering conspiracy nut would believe that it could happen.

Anyone who has been paying attention to security/privacy issues over the last 4 years or so should know that there are surveillance and tracking going on that no one knew was taking place. That's just what's been leaked... the full extent of it remains a secret.

The "let them track and monitor me, I have nothing to hide" attitude embraced by many appears to be rooted in an ignorance of world history. That certainly isn't going to change. But it's sad.

I did not say, I "can't see how"; rather I asked him to provide some plausible scenario where it could be something the government could exploit to your disadvantage and he was unable to. Personally, I'm not going to refuse to use products or services because they may or may not at some point in the future provide the government with access to something they already have access to. I already have a tinfoil hat, so I should be covered.

Edit: and ironically a fingerprint sensor may be the best/only protection against unwanted intrusion. So conspiracy theorists are likely freaking out about something they in reality should be embracing.