If youre a photographer you should not get a Retina MacBook Pro

[AlvinNguyen]

AlvinNguyen I’m 22 years old, I know I’m not as talented as you and probably never will be as great as you. What I have done with my photography have worked out for me. I’m getting a lot of work, that I can make a living off of it. I pretty much paid my way through college doing wedding through out my college years, started off as a secondary shooter.

If this doesn’t work out for me, I can always go back and be a software programmer since that’s what I went to school for. It’s always good to have two passions if something doesn’t work out, I can always fall back on the other one.

I am 25. I started photography when I was 23 in July 2010 when I was sick of my Masters program (MBA). I got my bachelor in PoliSci at UW. So time is not the issue. Nor is it age. It's passion and dedication.

I don't think I'm great or amazing - I do think I work harder in the last 2 years than many photographers do in 5-6 years. So hard work is what got me the experience and skills needed for the job. And I'm still learning and will continue to do so until my last breath.

This is a good learning experience for you. I think if you can walk away with the fact that you can listen, learn, and experience something before giving "advice" to other people you will gain so much more.

 

[9699624]

Should be:

Why I Have Decided Not To Buy A RMBP.

if the RMBP doesn't have the features for you or not for your work load/preference then that doesn't mean its not a laptop for photographers. greytmom basically summarized this misleading thread LOL oh and by the way I like your photos, I'm from kitchener which isn't too far from hamilton I'm sure ill give you shout if I need a photographer!

 

[iamthedudeman]

The OP has valid reasons for not wanting the RMBP for himself. Maybe he stated the thread wrong, but the points are valid. He should have stated that it is not right for him. He should have tried one first though before commenting.

Not everyone's needs are the same. Nor will your opinions reflect what everyone needs or don't need.

I returned my base RMBP, because the third party support was not ready. I have a marketing business and take my laptop to meetings and the laptop screen is used exclusivity when the meetings are not in a board room, restaurants, hotels, etc.

Nothing like showing your potential client your company's work when your app you are showing it on cannot render your work correctly. If it happens once that is once too many.

Third party support is lacking for the RMPB. That is a fact. Not everyone needs or wants a RMBP or can use one for their work depending on what apps they use. There are people who actually prefer the CMBP.

 

[Cypther]

Dude.. you are a freelance photographer, which means you are barely a "professional" photographer (if you want to even state that)... Which also means you don't generate enough revenue consistently to make photography a career. Also your whining post and the fact your profile links to your "professional" page tells everyone here you are an amateur.

I'm not worried what you have to say because well.. you are inexperience and your words don't carry much weight. There are plenty of articles from REAL professional photographers that praise the rMBP. The color gamut accuracy makes this a winner for portability especially for a photographer that works outside of a studio and need tethering or quick edit options. Yes I understand the limitation but you are going to get that regardless of rMBP or some other laptop.

I would counter your points but it is not worth it. I think people here have said enough.

You know most photographers freelance or do contract work. Once you’re done an assignment, you move on to the next client. My first real photography job was contract work as a secondary wedding shooter, and then I did children portraits at elementary schools for a bit. I freelance now because I figure that I can make more money this way. I don’t know any 9-5 photography jobs; maybe you know something I don’t know?

Yayy another wedding photographer. I'm not knocking wedding photography because well I know some VERY successful wedding photographers, one friend of mine shoots nation wide and to give you an idea uses PROFOTO (what wedding photographer uses profoto !?) and makes above consistently in the range of $200-300k/yr (in this economy change in business landscape) with over 10 years of experience. She also have a semi cult following and in fact they are doing a pilot on a reality series based on her. Not sure if it will get picked up.

Anyway.. wedding photography is a huge grey area because of the easy barrier of entry, i have seen amazing to not so much and yes you can make a living off it but quality work builds on experience, reputation and tactfulness. Unfortunately every soccer mom who buys a starter kit from best buy now thinks they can shoot weddings. It is a fact and the main reason it drives down the price and profession as a whole. You have yet to prove anything here. A professional does not need to know it all and I never said that. What ever genre you pick yayyy.. but in short your advice is horrible. Look at the "PUBLISHED" work of the other member check out the creatives, what do you have other than weddings and some TFP pics? Great wedding photographers also have personal creatives that are amazing and usually have tear sheets to back it up.

I don't want to sound harsh but just chill out on your ridiculous advice, your work will grow and you will get better as you learn from experience but your advice at present (TODAY) bleeds immaturity and inexperience. Remember pressing a button is really like 9% of what one does as photographer, balancing, managing creative teams, assistants, clients, editing, logistics, operations to delivery/submissions comes into play. There is no accreditation in wedding photography anyone can be one but the ones that are successful wedding or fashion are whatever can do all I stated and more.

You can pretty much say this about any types of photography. Sports, event, wildlife….etc. If you’re worry about the people that are in it for the quick cash, than you have something more to worry about it. The soccer mom probably does not no the different between an f stop or a bus stop. The people that are in it for the quick cash will eventually find out it's a lot of work and quit. They might think it's only 8 hours of work for $2500-3000, but really it's another 40 hours editing the photos and putting the wedding album together. What if the camera fails, do they have a backup body to use? If there is bad light, do they have a solution for that? The different between soft light and bad light...etc.. I'm not worry about those people.

You think? DUHHHH Of course color calibration would be important, not all professionals LIKE YOU uses Walmart to print their photos. GEez stop talking.

Some tool box really are rude. I don't think I have ever said I print at walmart.

Or you can get one when you are more mature (in the industry). Goodnight.

You should read your post on how mature you really are tool!

Wow that went way over your head. I was implying your comment was a bunch of fluff with no substance. Stating the obvious as if you speak with experience. You replies are comical and moronic. Thank you for linking your site for the world to see.

Huh? Take your own advice! I don't think I will design a site and not want people to see it, not really sure what you're getting at.

Image

Obviously because he is a higher level professional photographer that understands the needs of professional photographers.

OP Don't you have homework to do or something?

Nope graduated a year ago. Are you just arguing with me because you are a photographer or just a douche?

 

[thermodynamic]

The pixel density is something photographers working for print have needed for a while. The machine is too slow, the display is too small, and not wide enough gamut for professional work though—fine for a mobile workstation though, I suppose.

We need new Mac Pros and retina cinema displays with a wide gamut and writable LUTs for pro work. Realistically, I can’t see it happening, but maybe once Apple produce retina cinema displays, companies like Eizo and NEC will be forced to produce them to compete.

I agree that you should be buying a Retina MacBook Pro if you need a mobile edit station, but I know a lot of photographers that have been switching to Windows machines because the hardware is two generations ahead of the Mac Pros now, and when you’re working with the top end of Nikon/Canon’s offerings or Medium Format backs, the speed difference is huge. Most of the big tools are multi-platform and work just the same on Windows as they do on OS X. Apple really needs to pull their finger out and do a serious revision of the Mac Pros soon, or they are in danger of losing the professional market. They’re already losing the video segment with things like Final Cut “Pro” X

You only do work for the web? If you’re shooting RAW and printing your work, sRGB doesn’t cut it at all.

Since Apple seems to be eyeing the consumer market more and more, thanks to FCPX, iPads, iphones, and using higher density screens that most laptop users won't see the difference over unless they stare at it from 12" away (IPS panels have been around for notebooks for some time, and high-end Windows laptops costing under $2500 have used superior RGBLED panels as well, yet Apple has never bothered, and probably citing the same excuse they use regarding Blu-Ray (which would benefit under the pixel density Retina offers, far more than the 'qualitty' of a compressed digital stream!!)), we won't know until 2013 what the big plans are for the Mac Pro. If there are any.

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Thanks.. I have a personal love for photography and have many good friends in the industry and have assisted with some amazing fashion photographers like THIS GUY AND THIS GUY. I have assisted in some of the pics you see on the site. I don't consider myself a professional in any degree but I have work that I am extremely proud of especially for my short stint in the industry.

Thanks for the links - they are most informative in terms of content...

Their works are absolutely stellar, and show the sorts of competition one needs to surpass... that is professional, quality visuals.

But the web sites were not ideally constructed and do more to distract than to complement, much less compliment... IMHO, YMMV. But going to college for web design and management (I dream of being an art director one day, possibly), I would have found a better way to compose those sites layouts, presentation, and execution in a bandwidth-conscious manner...

One's web page starts with a beyond-bland splash page that shows NOTHING of his efforts and comes across more as a turn-off as a result. Splash pages, if people really want to use them, really should show more than just gray text on white background, as a sample of what is to come but they're usually frowned upon in the industry these days. When clicking on it, assuming one does, reveals an exceedingly poor layout of bandwidth-sucking images with links that are barely visible most of the time - on my connection (8192Kbit download/768Kbit upload) it's fast, but for slower speeds I can fathom some massive slowness when the slide show changes images. It's a below average layout, even if the actual photos of the human beings are fantastic. It's easy enough to take the same design, ditch the needless splash page, and use ways to make the text readable regardless of background but if he wants to hire me to revamp his site, I'm worth the money.

The other site takes a zillion years to load, with a broadband connection,because the web designer has no concept of size optimization and categorical organization. There's too much that's simply splattered on screen all at once (even if it's in neat rows and columns, it's still one ginormous lump), and I'm glad I don't have a 56k connection. But nobody should need a T1 connection for it to load at a fair speed either... The actual photos are GREAT, but the layout and loading time are - sorry - horrendous, and there are companies that don't have the fastest internet connection times that might otherwise want to make use of their talents.

Have the web site quality match the content, and more accessible (to all except 56k users depending on market, this is the 21st century, but with broadband users seeing a struggle with downloading 72ppi images, just wait until web developers have to support 300ppi - which will be a far bigger strain, and a more costly one as well...)

 

[JMB1911]

I am in sales at work.

I do some heavy emailing (maybe 20 emails a day), IM chat, and safari...with up to 6 or 8 tabs open at a time.

I also listen to pandora at work.

This new pro powers through all that like a boss.

 

[racer1441]

Good. Now Cypther has weighed in on the rMBP. Our long national nightmare is over!

 

[Cypther]

I am 25. I started photography when I was 23 in July 2010 when I was sick of my Masters program (MBA). I got my bachelor in PoliSci at UW. So time is not the issue. Nor is it age. It's passion and dedication.

I don't think I'm great or amazing - I do think I work harder in the last 2 years than many photographers do in 5-6 years. So hard work is what got me the experience and skills needed for the job. And I'm still learning and will continue to do so until my last breath.

This is a good learning experience for you. I think if you can walk away with the fact that you can listen, learn, and experience something before giving "advice" to other people you will gain so much more.

I was looking through your site, I don't know anything about fashion photography but I'm trying to figure out how you light up some of your subject. Do you use a beauty dish to light your subject plus a hair light? I really like the paramount lighting on some of the images and do you shoot at f/8 or greater for all your images, everything is sharp even the background. I notice fashion hardly have any bokeh, is this the style?

My light setup is is very simple, it's a softbox and sometimes a flash for hair light if I use it. I might have to change it because I don't like my setup now.

 

[bossxii]

For the record it plays Diablo 3 at native 2880x1800 just fine. Maybe you should actually use one before trying to pick it apart.

 

[Cypther]

For the record it plays Diablo 3 at native 2880x1800 just fine. Maybe you should actually use one before trying to pick it apart.

It drops down to 18 fps later in the game, which is not playable.

 

[thekev]

I was looking through your site, I don't know anything about fashion photography but I'm trying to figure out how you light up some of your subject. Do you use a beauty dish to light your subject plus a hair light? I really like the paramount lighting on some of the images and do you shoot at f/8 or greater for all your images, everything is sharp even the background. I notice fashion hardly have any bokeh, is this the style?

My light setup is is very simple, it's a softbox and sometimes a flash for hair light if I use it. I might have to change it because I don't like my setup now.

You're focusing on the wrong things. Why do people always do this? Someone else made their background sharp. If you want yours to be that way, you can do that too. It would become difficult if you're photographing a subject up close, but you can always drop them in a different background. You just have to deal with either preserving or repainting the hair's edge. Either can be made believable. A lot of images where an unbelievable depth of field remains in focus are comps though. Regarding lighting, I've seen so many people stress over this. I've seen them rent things like Briese lights due to their falloff qualities. If you're on a budget with this, you want to consider matching certain criteria of what you want when you shoot it.

Get the size down. Get some white balance references so that you some decent reference points. It doesn't mean you must match to them precisely. Make sure you have figured out how to get a good exposure from your camera. If you need to adjust away from the metered reading, do so. It needs to avoid noise and blooming as much as possible while putting the midtones in a decent place. Anyway on lighting I was just saying that you should establish size and positioning if you're on a budget. While there are many different light modifiers that can have slightly different effects, you can come up with something that looks good even with a cheap kit. If you know what you want and can establish size/direction/position (size can be approximated by moving lighting closer to or further away from as somewhat of a hack if working on a tight budget), you can clean things up from there to a degree in post. If you're working with human subjects, some knowledge of anatomy and illustration will go a long way there. I've noticed most people can't even paint steady strokes.

Anyway recapping, establish as many properties of the lighting as you can when lighting it. Make sure you have a perfect lighting shot for reference so you can see it before anyone moved around in case this must be fixed later. Learn to break things down past that point and identify them. Subject moved so the eyes don't look lit up enough. Find one where they look perfect. Use that for reference when you go to work on the image.

Also I get the impression you're setting your display too bright. Many of those would print with really saturated skin, and people seem to get fooled by that when they're looking at images with unrealistic brightness levels. You also seem to go really rough on your textures (as in you're removing quite a bit of it). Just hitting those couple details would help 100%.

Okay I'm done writing, but the questions you're asking the guy are just begging for more time spent banging your head against a wall.

 

[minnus]

For the record it plays Diablo 3 at native 2880x1800 just fine. Maybe you should actually use one before trying to pick it apart.

I tried it...I don't know what you consider playable, but it certainly wasn't to me at native, lol. Yes, I had AA off.

 

[samh4life]

Just relax and wait =]

I've found this thread quite humorous. I purchased the MBPr 4 days after launch online. I'm still waiting for it to ship, probably because I used the student discount Apple gives. Anyways, I messed around with one for a little while at the closest Apple store (50+ miles away) and was impressed with what I saw. I also looked at the updated MBP's on the next table and I could easily see the difference between the two machines. Even from laymans eyes (I'm not a photographer nor am I into anything that involves with photo editing) the MBPr by far over passed that of the MBP.

To address the software compatibility issues the OP brought up:

Wait till like August for developers to adapt (although most have already started) because this product is pretty much "fresh out of the oven."

To address the OP's problem with the Sun:

Find Shade...or just put like some common sense into your process and wait until you find a car (which is more likely going to happen being there is more cars than Macs as a whole) or just wait until you go back to the hotel after the wedding to do that quick photo edit.

But what do I know, I'm just a sophomore in college that just uses computers for frequent Facebook usage, Film editing, and casual gaming. (which real gaming isn't meant or was designed for Macs to begin with) (PS3 is where real gaming takes place, or perhaps Alien Ware)

 

[bossxii]

It drops down to 18 fps later in the game, which is not playable.

I tried it...I don't know what you consider playable, but it certainly wasn't to me at native, lol. Yes, I had AA off.

@Cypther at what setttings? at what part of the game? That comment is so wide and general it's rather pointless. I have played any number of games in my past on high end PC's and had the FPS drop down to under 18 in the game? How the hell does that mean anything? Show me any computer and I"ll find a game at a given setting and given point in the game I can make the GPU suffer down to 18 FPS.

@minnus I didn't buy this as a gaming laptop. I'd never buy a Mac as a dedicated gaming machine when I can build a much better/faster/cheaper PC if that is what my primary goal was. I simply mess around with it from time to time and D3 was a game for OSX so I bought it to mess around with. I am sure my settings are as such that it's playable (very subjective) to me. It's looks very good and so far has been smooth playing. I don't consider laggy or jittery good or acceptable, at the same time I don't think my character is past level 15 or 16 so the encounters and mobs on screen may increase to be unplayable. As of right now though, it's fine for me and looks fantastic.

 

[magbarn]

@Cypther at what setttings? at what part of the game? That comment is so wide and general it's rather pointless. I have played any number of games in my past on high end PC's and had the FPS drop down to under 18 in the game? How the hell does that mean anything? Show me any computer and I"ll find a game at a given setting and given point in the game I can make the GPU suffer down to 18 FPS.

@minnus I didn't buy this as a gaming laptop. I'd never buy a Mac as a dedicated gaming machine when I can build a much better/faster/cheaper PC if that is what my primary goal was. I simply mess around with it from time to time and D3 was a game for OSX so I bought it to mess around with. I am sure my settings are as such that it's playable (very subjective) to me. It's looks very good and so far has been smooth playing. I don't consider laggy or jittery good or acceptable, at the same time I don't think my character is past level 15 or 16 so the encounters and mobs on screen may increase to be unplayable. As of right now though, it's fine for me and looks fantastic.

Try multiplayer inferno and even my HTPC's 6970 has slowdowns. My main gaming rig's GTX 670 is able to keep almost 60fps constant though.

 

[Cypther]

For the record it plays Diablo 3 at native 2880x1800 just fine. Maybe you should actually use one before trying to pick it apart.

@Cypther at what setttings? at what part of the game? That comment is so wide and general it's rather pointless. I have played any number of games in my past on high end PC's and had the FPS drop down to under 18 in the game? How the hell does that mean anything? Show me any computer and I"ll find a game at a given setting and given point in the game I can make the GPU suffer down to 18 FPS.

@minnus I didn't buy this as a gaming laptop. I'd never buy a Mac as a dedicated gaming machine when I can build a much better/faster/cheaper PC if that is what my primary goal was. I simply mess around with it from time to time and D3 was a game for OSX so I bought it to mess around with. I am sure my settings are as such that it's playable (very subjective) to me. It's looks very good and so far has been smooth playing. I don't consider laggy or jittery good or acceptable, at the same time I don't think my character is past level 15 or 16 so the encounters and mobs on screen may increase to be unplayable. As of right now though, it's fine for me and looks fantastic.

My first priority for owning a MBP is not gaming, it's how will it help my photography because that's what pays my bill. I have this for PC gaming(look at photo)

What's so special about this Mac Pro well.....

It's a PC inside a Mac Pro chassis, it has a GTX 680, i7 980 3.33Ghz overclock to 4Ghz, 12gb ram. And I have OSX installed with a little help from tonymacx86. It's a pretty nice hackintosh, as well as a gaming PC.

 

[bossxii]

My first priority for owning a MBP is not gaming, it's how will it help my photography because that's what pays my bill. I have this for PC gaming(look at photo)

Image

What's so special about this Mac Pro well.....

Image

It's a PC inside a Mac Pro chassis, it has a GTX 680, i7 980 3.33Ghz overclock to 4Ghz, 12gb ram. And I have OSX installed with a little help from tonymacx86. It's a pretty nice hackintosh, as well as a gaming PC.

Can someone get this man a cookie already? (and a rMBP so he can actually use it before acting like he knows how it performs)

 

[0071284]

I am in sales at work.

I do some heavy emailing (maybe 20 emails a day), IM chat, and safari...with up to 6 or 8 tabs open at a time.

I also listen to pandora at work.

This new pro powers through all that like a boss.

This post is straight-up pure awesomeness.

 

[SDAVE]

Okay, what's your definition of a professional photographer? I would really like to know. I did quit my job a few months ago and started to do wedding a lot more, I do make a pretty decent living off just doing wedding photography. You know there's different types of photography. Sports, Photojournalism, Glamour.etc.. Does not mean a photographer needs to specialize in all of them.

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When you're in an area that you can't control your lighting, glossy screen is terrible such as outside which is unusable.

Your photos are horrible.

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Consider yourself lucky that you're making good money in a job that can be easily outsourced for a fraction of the cost.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

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I would like to add here that your tools don't matter.

How did Avedon, Penn, etc. get great photography without any computers?

OP, you need to forget about computers and go back to the basics. Learn about the history of photography and while you're at it, the history of music, etc.

It doesn't matter what kind of gear you have if you have no taste whatsoever. Any monkey with a bank account can buy a good camera and lenses and computers.

You're trying to justify your opinion by stating that for ALL photographers a certain product doesn't work, when in fact, I wouldn't trust a single thing about what you said after looking at your portfolio.

"Professional" photographers can make anything work. They don't need to blame their tools for making crappy photos.

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I am 25. I started photography when I was 23 in July 2010 when I was sick of my Masters program (MBA). I got my bachelor in PoliSci at UW. So time is not the issue. Nor is it age. It's passion and dedication.

I don't think I'm great or amazing - I do think I work harder in the last 2 years than many photographers do in 5-6 years. So hard work is what got me the experience and skills needed for the job. And I'm still learning and will continue to do so until my last breath.

This is a good learning experience for you. I think if you can walk away with the fact that you can listen, learn, and experience something before giving "advice" to other people you will gain so much more.

Precisely.

Give a good artist a two cans and a shoe string and they'll make music for ya.

Computers may have made things quicker to produce, but in reality, nothing can beat a good eye and mind. Anyone that says things can be outsourced is speaking out of their butts. Good artists are not easily found. They're rare and nothing can replace them.

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My first priority for owning a MBP is not gaming, it's how will it help my photography because that's what pays my bill. I have this for PC gaming(look at photo)

Image

What's so special about this Mac Pro well.....

Image

It's a PC inside a Mac Pro chassis, it has a GTX 680, i7 980 3.33Ghz overclock to 4Ghz, 12gb ram. And I have OSX installed with a little help from tonymacx86. It's a pretty nice hackintosh, as well as a gaming PC.

Crypter, please work on your photography skills vs. what you an do with a gaming rig.

Develop a passion for it and you will notice that tools will not matter in the long run.

You will beat yourself up later if you don't take some of the advice here while you're still young.

 

[brand]

I do some heavy emailing (maybe 20 emails a day), IM chat, and safari...with up to 6 or 8 tabs open at a time.

You and I have a very different definition of heavy emailing. 20 emails is nothing.

 

[JMB1911]

You and I have a very different definition of heavy emailing. 20 emails is nothing.

Haha I was being fecetious. I do more emails than that.

It's fun to work for a guy that likes cool new stuff and buys it for his employees.

 

[Common.Sense]

A good read too about the retina and calibration.
http://blog.datacolor.com/cd-tobie-retina-display-macbook-pro-for-calibration-and-photography/

But CS will be ready soon. In a few weeks OSX 10.8 will be released and this will trigger many companies to update their apps at the same time supporting the new OSX + retina. Be patient.

 

[Cypther]

Your photos are horrible.

My clients like my photos, and I do get pay for my photography. If clients stop coming than it's a sign I'm not very good at all and should probably quit. I do see a lot of flaws in my work that I still need to work on and I don't think my photos are that great either.

I would like to add here that your tools don't matter.

True to an extent, you still have to know the limitations of your tools and the knowledge what the tool can or can't do for you. If the tools are not working out for you than get something that will work for you. Such as a faster lens for low light F/1.4 vs F/2.8 or a camera with better ISO but the photographer still need to understand how to use it and when to use it. Like most great photographers will tell you, it's not the camera that takes great photos it's the photographer.

You're trying to justify your opinion by stating that for ALL photographers a certain product doesn't work, when in fact, I wouldn't trust a single thing about what you said after looking at your portfolio.

Maybe I named the thread wrong, and should have name the threat "If you're a photographer you should watch out for these things before getting a rMBP"

You will beat yourself up later if you don't take some of the advice here while you're still young.

Already taking notes, never ***** on an Apple product on a Macforum because I'll get flame to death.

 

[souljah]

This thread got me shocked two times first the OP post that photgraphers dont need retina display even if its avaible, just ignore it..wow and secondly how f ga- y the fashion industry is. Im really happy im not apart from that, i now enjoy music industry even more! You dont have to have mac to be taken seriously... he k in music industry i dont even have to have computer, with some nice old school analog stuff you can give your sound even more exlusivness and colour! I just hope this "mus have mac to be taken seriously" isnt spreading out, its plain ridicolus and just creating more stereotypes lol

 

[chrono1081]

When you're in an area that you can't control your lighting, glossy screen is terrible such as outside which is unusable.

Which is why when you see shoots on location people have shades to cover the screens, regardless if its matte or glossy.