iFixit Details Which Parts Can Be Swapped Between the iPhone 8 and iPhone SE

[I7guy]

iPhone 1-5 increased the price by £50-100 in the UK over 6 years. iPhone 5S through to the 7 was around £50-£100 price increase bar the 6S which went down slightly. 7-X £330 price increase in one generation. The beginning of the exorbitant pricing strategy as iPhone sales decline.

I posted US prices. Most of the sales went to two year contracts until a certain point, so people rarely paid MSRP. Unless you can cite accurate unit sales from Apple , you don’t know If there was an increase, leveling or decline.

Not just my opinion most reviews out there said if you have a XS or X don't buy the iPhone 11 Pro there's hardly any difference bar the one extra wide angle camera. Cant even say its a special camera it a bog standard wide angle lens. Nothing to justify another price increase from Apple here in the UK over the XS Max pricing which itself didn't justify a price increase over the X.

The universe of people upgrading from an 5 to 5s, 6 to 6s, 7 to 8 or x, x to Xs, Xs go 11 is a much smaller universe than upgrading from older models, that seems like common sense. That is irrespective of the substantive upgrades that went into the “s” models. If you believe the only upgrade from the Xs to the 11 is the camera, apples’ website has the information you want, enough new tech to justify a price increase.

Fiscal quarter in December Apple made $91B, that should tell you people were buying. What they bought is a guess though since Apple no longer reports the raw numbers.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Wow you’re all over the place.

1) The Mac Pro is mostly for professionals. It’s built for a certain target market that is willing to pay for its features. Its existence isn’t relevant to the 98-99% who don’t need it. Same applies to the XDR display. “Not worth the price” is your value judgment, and not relevant to those who buy it.

2) Price decreases were seen in the 16” MBP and recently the mini as well, not just MacBook Air.

3) There is not too much “fragmentation”, by which it seems you mean choice of models. It was not better when there was only one or two models to choose from. Prices at lower and higher prices than a “mainstream” model (e.g. iPhone 11 or iPad Air) is ideal. One size doesn’t fit all.

The Mac suffers from only having two tiers instead of three in both the MacBook (Air vs. Pro, no mid tier) and desktop (Mac mini vs. Mac Pro) lineup.

Why would you want the mainstream iPhone 11 discontinued? Then we’d be left with an entry level $400 SE and a $1,000+ iPhone Pro. That’s too big a gap. The $700 mid-tier is an essential price point, and is where most customers buy.

1) The XDR display is marketed as being as good as a reference monitor which it isn't and many tests floating about have proved that. Its not as accurate. Its worth £1500 tops same as the Thunderbolt displays it replaced. Its an LCD with high contrast. Im pretty sure professionals would agree £1000 for a stand is a cheeky money grab and should be included in the £4599 pricing. In fact I think there were groans from the audience when they revealed it, silence and no clapping followed which says it all.

2) Price decreases on the MBP 16 means little when the price was already inflated in the first place, even now its prices are high. Was the price drop only for the base model?. I think the Mini remained the same price in the recent update, but they did increase the storage.

3) Too much choice isn't always good. Focus on a few things and do them well was what Apple was always about.

Take the MacBook line up, the MacBook Air blurs in the the MacBook Pro 13inch and MacBook blurred into the Air before it was discontinued. They should just go back to the MacBook made out of plastic and the Pro aluminium that was the perfect solution.

As for the desktop I agree there needs to be a mid range tower option. The Mac mini has a lacklustre graphics option and the Mac Pro is overkill for most people as you said.

4) Sorry I wasn't clearer. I meant the iPhone 11 Pro should have just been called the iPhone 11 and priced at those same price points the actual iPhone 11 currently sits and that should be Apples top end price range not breaching the £1000 mark

So the entire iPhone line up would be iPhone SE £419, iPhone 11 pro £600-£800 and 11 Pro Max £800-£1000 and they all use the same A13 so its a nice lineup. Also 3 screen sizes catered for.
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I posted US prices. Most of the sales went to two year contracts until a certain point, so people rarely paid MSRP. Unless you can cite accurate unit sales from Apple , you don’t know If there was an increase, leveling or decline.

The universe of people upgrading from an 5 to 5s, 6 to 6s, 7 to 8 or x, x to Xs, Xs go 11 is a much smaller universe than upgrading from older models, that seems like common sense. That is irrespective of the substantive upgrades that went into the “s” models. If you believe the only upgrade from the Xs to the 11 is the camera, apples’ website has the information you want, enough new tech to justify a price increase.

Fiscal quarter in December Apple made $91B, that should tell you people were buying. What they bought is a guess though since Apple no longer reports the raw numbers.

I know you posted US prices but I know prices from here in the UK and what I've been paying over the years. I never buy my iPhones on contract, I always pay the full retail from Apple until the last couple of years where I have been able to get discounts.

What I see on the webpage is a lot of fancy marketing terms and in the real world don't translate to huge gains over previous generations like the XS to 11 Pro.

I suspect the majority of that money comes from the iPhone 11 and lower which shows the iPhone 11 Pro is priced too highly for the average consumer who before could purchase the best iPhone at iPhone 11 price points. Tim has said himself the iPhone 11 is the best selling iPhone. Also its services income has increased a lot.

 

[PickUrPoison]

iPhone 1-5 increased the price by £50-100 in the UK over 6 years. iPhone 5S through to the 7 was around £50-£100 price increase bar the 6S which went down slightly. 7-X £330 price increase in one generation. The beginning of the exorbitant pricing strategy as iPhone sales decline.

Not just my opinion most reviews out there said if you have a XS or X don't buy the iPhone 11 Pro there's hardly any difference bar the one extra wide angle camera. Cant even say its a special camera it a bog standard wide angle lens. Nothing to justify another price increase from Apple here in the UK over the XS Max pricing which itself didn't justify a price increase over the X.

Actually from iPhones 7 to 8 there was only a $50 increase in one generation: $649 to $699. The XR had another $50 increase to $749, but with the iPhone 11 the price dropped back to $699. That’s actually cheaper than the $649 2011 iPhone 4s, taking inflation into account. No exorbitant price increase—rather, a price cut.

The X, a new super-premium tier iPhone, was introduced at $999. There was no price increase from a previous year, as it was the first year of a brand new model. Subsequent models have had no price increase; XS and 11 Pro were also $999.

Not sure why you mention the Max, both the XS and 11 Pro were $1,099. Only $100 more for the larger model, just like the Plus model was compared to the 6/6s/7/8.

 

[PickUrPoison]

1) The XDR display is marketed as being as good as a reference monitor which it isn't and many tests floating about have proved that. Its not as accurate. Its worth £1500 tops same as the Thunderbolt displays it replaced. Its an LCD with high contrast. Im pretty sure professionals would agree £1000 for a stand is a cheeky money grab and should be included in the £4599 pricing. In fact I think there were groans from the audience when they revealed it, silence and no clapping followed which says it all.

2) Price decreases on the MBP 16 means little when the price was already inflated in the first place, even now its prices are high. Was the price drop only for the base model?. I think the Mini remained the same price in the recent update, but they did increase the storage.

3) Too much choice isn't always good. Focus on a few things and do them well was what Apple was always about.

Take the MacBook line up, the MacBook Air blurs in the the MacBook Pro 13inch and MacBook blurred into the Air before it was discontinued. They should just go back to the MacBook made out of plastic and the Pro aluminium that was the perfect solution.

As for the desktop I agree there needs to be a mid range tower option. The Mac mini has a lacklustre graphics option and the Mac Pro is overkill for most people as you said.

4) Sorry I wasn't clearer. I meant the iPhone 11 Pro should have just been called the iPhone 11 and priced at those same price points the actual iPhone 11 currently sits and that should be Apples top end price range not breaching the £1000 mark

So the entire iPhone line up would be iPhone SE £419, iPhone 11 pro £600-£800 and 11 Pro Max £800-£1000 and they all use the same A13 so its a nice lineup. Also 3 screen sizes catered for.

1) The XDR is a large, high resolution Pro monitor for pro workflows. I believe that exactly how it’s marketed, as well. It’s worth exactly what buyers will pay for it.

Not one actual professional expected it to replace a pro reference monitor for mastering, or for a colorist. There’s a reason $30-50k monitors for those purposes are still being sold.

The target market for the XDR is not WWDC attendees, so their reaction isn’t particularly relevant.

2) Price decreases are always welcome, especially when prices are high. Price cuts were across the line. For instance with the mini, the 8/256 was $999, now $799. The 8/512 was $1,199, now it’s $999. Etc. Same with the 16” MBP.

3) People are smart enough to choose between a few models, especially with price differences being what they are. No one is trying to decide between a $300 entry level iPad and an $800 iPad Pro; their target markets are mutually exclusive. Same with SE vs. iPhone Pro.

btw, I did not say there should be a midrange tower. But maybe a 16” equivalent mini: a (less powerful) 45W CPU, but with a discrete GPU. Probably not enough demand though.

4) 11 Pro is a $1,000 iPhone, not $600 or $800. (Yes, iPhones are expensive.) But for $700, you can get the 11, and for $400 the SE.

Not everyone wants or needs the most expensive iPhone. Some do feel entitled to it though, and at a price of their choosing. To me, that’s a strange position to hold, but then again, people are strange 🙂

 

[I7guy]

...
I suspect the majority of that money comes from the iPhone 11 and lower which shows the iPhone 11 Pro is priced too highly for the average consumer who before could purchase the best iPhone at iPhone 11 price points. Tim has said himself the iPhone 11 is the best selling iPhone. Also its services income has increased a lot.

There is a discussion point struggling to get out, but it's lost in the muck and mire. The iphone 11 pro is priced just right. Premium features at a higher price. It's priced right due to the amount of tech over and above the iphone 11. Are you saying that Apple should reduce the price of the 11 pro so they should sell more units? If so, you can take that to Apple.

The iphone 11 is also priced right. Apple has changed it's overall strategy with respect to the selling of iphones. Different phones, at different price points so the consumer has more choice. You may not be a fan of the Apples' new strategy but that is what it is.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Actually from iPhones 7 to 8 there was only a $50 increase in one generation: $649 to $699. The XR had another $50 increase to $749, but with the iPhone 11 the price dropped back to $699. That’s actually cheaper than the $649 2011 iPhone 4s, taking inflation into account. No exorbitant price increase—rather, a price cut.

The X, a new super-premium tier iPhone, was introduced at $999. There was no price increase from a previous year, as it was the first year of a brand new model. Subsequent models have had no price increase; XS and 11 Pro were also $999.

Not sure why you mention the Max, both the XS and 11 Pro were $1,099. Only $100 more for the larger model, just like the Plus model was compared to the 6/6s/7/8.

I think everyone posting replies is getting confused here and its all becoming a jumble. My annoyance with price increases begins with the iPhone X and from then onward the XS and 11 Pro models. The cheaper models are irrelevant for my argument.

My point is up until iPhone 6 there was no screen size differential and no feature differential on any newly released iPhone. Storage alone was the only difference between price points. So for example £819 UK pricing before the X I got the iPhone 7 Plus 128GB, and the Plus at that time was the top of the line model in 2016. Now that same money buys you a standard iPhone 11.

Before they started going low, middle and high price points there was one iPhone so they couldn't charge crazy prices because they only had one model to market and sell to the masses. With the fragmentation of the product line they have changed the previous high end price points to being the middle tier price point and made up another high tier to charge higher prices for features you would have got before for the middle tier price point.

A lot of users here are probably in the US where pricing is usually cheaper compared to UK prices even when including the US sales tax. So for instance If I buy an iPhone in New York City where sales tax is around 8% in total I would pay $1078.92 which is £816.17 in the UK for a $999 iPhone. In UK pricing if an NYC resident came to the UK they would pay $1244.37. A large $165.45 difference. When you scale that up to the Max models which I purchase the price gets ridiculous.

In the US prices actually dropped for some of the X-XS models and remained the same for the 11 Pro I believe. Here is how the pricing went in the UK for my purchases. iPhone 7 Plus 128GB £819, iPhone X 256GB (no 128 option only 64 or 256) £1149, iPhone XS Max 256GB £1249, iPhone 11 Pro Max 256GB £1299.

If you want that in dollars that's $1020.16, $1431.21, $1555.78, $1618.06

So you can clearly see here in the UK prices are getting ridiculous each year. Now people will ways say currency fluctuations, VAT sales tax in the UK and import costs etc, but they all ship from China and currency and taxes shouldn't affect the price difference between the US and UK that much.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I think everyone posting replies is getting confused here and its all becoming a jumble. My annoyance with price increases begins with the iPhone X and from then onward the XS and 11 Pro models. The cheaper models are irrelevant for my argument.

My point is up until iPhone 6 there was no screen size differential and no feature differential on any newly released iPhone. Storage alone was the only difference between price points. So for example £819 UK pricing before the X I got the iPhone 7 Plus 128GB, and the Plus at that time was the top of the line model in 2016. Now that same money buys you a standard iPhone 11.

Before they started going low, middle and high price points there was one iPhone so they couldn't charge crazy prices because they only had one model to market and sell to the masses. With the fragmentation of the product line they have changed the previous high end price points to being the middle tier price point and made up another high tier to charge higher prices for features you would have got before for the middle tier price point.

A lot of users here are probably in the US where pricing is usually cheaper compared to UK prices even when including the US sales tax. So for instance If I buy an iPhone in New York City where sales tax is around 8% in total I would pay $1078.92 which is £816.17 in the UK for a $999 iPhone. In UK pricing if an NYC resident came to the UK they would pay $1244.37. A large $165.45 difference. When you scale that up to the Max models which I purchase the price gets ridiculous.

In the US prices actually dropped for some of the X-XS models and remained the same for the 11 Pro I believe. Here is how the pricing went in the UK for my purchases. iPhone 7 Plus 128GB £819, iPhone X 256GB (no 128 option only 64 or 256) £1149, iPhone XS Max 256GB £1249, iPhone 11 Pro Max 256GB £1299.

If you want that in dollars that's $1020.16, $1431.21, $1555.78, $1618.06

So you can clearly see here in the UK prices are getting ridiculous each year. Now people will ways say currency fluctuations, VAT sales tax in the UK and import costs etc, but they all ship from China and currency and taxes shouldn't affect the price difference between the US and UK that much.

You say Apple “made up another high tier to charge higher prices for features you would have got before for the middle tier price point”. That’s not what happened at all.

The X was introduced alongside the 8/8 Plus. The 8 had the same features it always had at about $700. The X had newer tech and more high-end features.

If you didn’t want the more expensive features, you could have bought the 8/8 Plus—and many did. The existence of the new X model was not relevant if you didn’t want the extra features.

This fall will be even better, because they’ll have two mid-tier models, which they didn’t have for the 2018 and 2019 model years. And they’ll both have OLED, as features once reserved for the high end migrate into the mid-tier.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

1) The XDR is a large, high resolution Pro monitor for pro workflows. I believe that exactly how it’s marketed, as well. It’s worth exactly what buyers will pay for it.

Not one actual professional expected it to replace a pro reference monitor for mastering, or for a colorist. There’s a reason $30-50k monitors for those purposes are still being sold.

The target market for the XDR is not WWDC attendees, so their reaction isn’t particularly relevant.

2) Price decreases are always welcome, especially when prices are high. Price cuts were across the line. For instance with the mini, the 8/256 was $999, now $799. The 8/512 was $1,199, now it’s $999. Etc. Same with the 16” MBP.

3) People are smart enough to choose between a few models, especially with price differences being what they are. No one is trying to decide between a $300 entry level iPad and an $800 iPad Pro; their target markets are mutually exclusive. Same with SE vs. iPhone Pro.

btw, I did not say there should be a midrange tower. But maybe a 16” equivalent mini: a (less powerful) 45W CPU, but with a discrete GPU. Probably not enough demand though.

4) 11 Pro is a $1,000 iPhone, not $600 or $800. (Yes, iPhones are expensive.) But for $700, you can get the 11, and for $400 the SE.

Not everyone wants or needs the most expensive iPhone. Some do feel entitled to it though, and at a price of their choosing. To me, that’s a strange position to hold, but then again, people are strange 🙂

Man, Apple really have you over a barrel.

1) They marketed it as being as good as a reference monitor in their reveal keynote saying oh these reference monitors costs thousands but this monitor is just as good.

The Mac Pro and XDR was targeted for developers as well as those scientists and movie makers etc lol they had them in attendance to give speeches so the reaction is very relevant.

So you agree that the stand is priced fairly?

2) I am in the UK so you need to stop using US dollar pricing and realise my argument on pricing is more relevant to the UK market. All those price cuts you mentioned never happened in the UK marketplace. All we have got is price increases across all product lines for the last 3-4 years except for the MacBook Air price reduction and minor one on the MBP 16 which happened only in the last 3-6 months.

3) Either way there should be a mid range tower. Mac mini, mid range tower, Mac Pro.

No, people are stupid. The amount of times I've been in an Apple store and people don't know what the hell they are looking for asking obscene amounts of question on whether their 18 year old student son should buy an entry level iPad or the iPad Pro. It just confuses customers.

4) Yes the smaller 11 Pro is a $1000 dollar phone but if you bought it in the UK you'd be paying $1244.37 and if you bought the SE in the UK you'd pay $521.91
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You say Apple “made up another high tier to charge higher prices for features you would have got before for the middle tier price point”. That’s not what happened at all.

The X was introduced alongside the 8/8 Plus. The 8 had the same features it always had at about $700. The X had newer tech and more high-end features.

If you didn’t want the more expensive features, you could have bought the 8/8 Plus—and many did. The existence of the new X model was not relevant if you didn’t want the extra features.

This fall will be even better, because they’ll have two mid-tier models, which they didn’t have for the 2018 and 2019 model years. And they’ll both have OLED, as features once reserved for the high end migrate into the mid-tier.

The 8/8 Plus didnt need to exist at all. The X should have been called the 8 and had Face ID etc at a similar price point to what the 8 retailed at, possibly slightly more for the Face ID if they wanted to use that as a reason to push the price up a little. If they continued the one new model per year strategy that would have been the case. So the X was the new higher tier.

The only thing that means is the the top end model will be even higher priced than what it currently is here in the UK. They'll say oh look these new 'mid tier models' have OLED now but wait we have this feature for the new high high tier price of I dunno how about £2000 which is $2500.

All this doesn't just relate to phones either it relates to all the products pretty much. Take the AirPods, there should only be one model. The AirPods Pro should just be called the new AirPods they should be a straight swap replacement of the old model. Case of ok you guys loved the AirPods we've updated them and they now include noise cancellation. Instead they made another product line of 'Pro'.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Man, Apple really have you over a barrel.

1) They marketed it as being as good as a reference monitor in their reveal keynote saying oh these reference monitors costs thousands but this monitor is just as good.

The Mac Pro and XDR was targeted for developers as well as those scientists and movie makers etc lol they had them in attendance to give speeches so the reaction is very relevant.

So you agree that the stand is priced fairly?

2) I am in the UK so you need to stop using US dollar pricing and realise my argument on pricing is more relevant to the UK market. All those price cuts you mentioned never happened in the UK marketplace. All we have got is price increases across all product lines for the last 3-4 years except for the MacBook Air price reduction and minor one on the MBP 16 which happened only in the last 3-6 months.

3) Either way there should be a mid range tower. Mac mini, mid range tower, Mac Pro.

No, people are stupid. The amount of times I've been in an Apple store and people don't know what the hell they are looking for asking obscene amounts of question on whether their 18 year old student son should buy an entry level iPad or the iPad Pro. It just confuses customers.

4) Yes the smaller 11 Pro is a $1000 dollar phone but if you bought it in the UK you'd be paying $1244.37 and if you bought the SE in the UK you'd pay $521.91

1) Apple made one ill-advised comparison to a $42k reference model in one presentation. That’s not how the XDR is marketed. Like I said, no pro in the industry thought it would replace a reference monitor for mastering or for a colorist. Others find it to be exactly what they want 🤷‍♂️

(The stand is priced properly.)

2) Apple can’t eliminate your VAT or make your currency stronger. That’s a UK problem, not an Apple problem.

btw you need to use then-current exchange rates to compare historical prices, you can’t just use today’s rate.

3) If someone doesn’t know if they should buy a $300 iPad or an $800 iPad, they should ask a lot of questions. The answer is not to discontinue one of them to make it idiot proof.

And no, there shouldn’t be a mid-range tower. There’s not enough demand to carry two towers. Anyway I thought you wanted fewer models, not more.

4) There’s $218 of VAT on the 11 Pro and $87 on the SE. Subtract that out and the prices you pay are about the same as what we pay here in the States. The remaining difference can be explained by your stronger consumer protections, and also FX hedging.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

1) Apple made one ill-advised comparison to a $42k reference model in one presentation. That’s not how the XDR is marketed. Like I said, no pro in the industry thought it would replace a reference monitor for mastering or for a colorist. Others find it to be exactly what they want 🤷‍♂️

(The stand is priced properly.)

2) Apple can’t eliminate your VAT or make your currency stronger. That’s a UK problem, not an Apple problem.

btw you need to use then-current exchange rates to compare historical prices, you can’t just use today’s rate.

3) If someone doesn’t know if they should buy a $300 iPad or an $800 iPad, they should ask a lot of questions. The answer is not to discontinue one of them to make it idiot proof.

And no, there shouldn’t be a mid-range tower. There’s not enough demand to carry two towers. Anyway I thought you wanted fewer models, not more.

4) There’s $218 of VAT on the 11 Pro and $87 on the SE. Subtract that out and the prices you pay are about the same as what we pay here in the States. The remaining difference can be explained by your stronger consumer protections, and also FX hedging.

1)Thats exactly how it’s marketed otherwise they wouldn’t have said it. Apple carefully construct and curate everything so that wasn’t a mistake they left that comment in a presentation, they read off auto cues. One look at the product webpage the first few things it says is “over a billion colours presented with exceptional accuracy” And “pro XDR takes brightness, contrast and colour to a new level, delivering the truest representation of your work”.

People like you who take anything Apple put out at any price that allows them to continue to charge exorbitant prices. I’ve heard of fanboy but you thinking £1000 for a stand is priced correctly is a joke lol.

2) The pound is typically stronger than the US dollar in 2004 is was $2 to every £1. In the following years it floated around $1.75 to $1.50 to every £1 until Brexit.

Apple don’t adjust fairly for inflation they’ll raise prices here if the pound weakens but slow to take back that price increase when the pound recovers.

3) By your own logic customers are aware of what iPad Apple is targeting them with. They should know based on price straight away which one is for them.

“People are smart enough to choose between a few models, especially with price differences being what they are. No one is trying to decide between a $300 entry level iPad and an $800 iPad Pro; their target markets are mutually exclusive. Same with SE vs. iPhone Pro”

Contradicting yourself.

Theres plenty of demand for years now calling for a headless iMac. They should discontinue the Mac Mini and put a mid range tower in its place with all the iMac internals but make them user replaceable like the current Mac Pro.

4)Take away all that and the base price is still more than in the US. Bottom line they can reduce prices in the UK but choose to try and shaft us with higher pricing.

Maybe they should balance the prices before tax etc so the US and UK prices are equal. That way we’d pay around £50-£100 less and you guys would only need to pay an extra $50-$100 more per iPhone.

 

[I7guy]

1)Thats exactly how it’s marketed otherwise they wouldn’t have said it. Apple carefully construct and curate everything so that wasn’t a mistake they left that comment in a presentation, they read off auto cues. One look at the product webpage the first few things it says is “over a billion colours presented with exceptional accuracy” And “pro XDR takes brightness, contrast and colour to a new level, delivering the truest representation of your work”.

The XDR got very good reviews, so this isn't all "fluff".

People like you who take anything Apple put out at any price that allows them to continue to charge exorbitant prices. I’ve heard of fanboy but you thinking £1000 for a stand is priced correctly is a joke lol.

Really? You are going to go down that path of crowd shaming an individual for their purchases because you have a beef with Apple and want to punish them?

<snip>
3) By your own logic customers are aware of what iPad Apple is targeting them with. They should know based on price straight away which one is for them.

“People are smart enough to choose between a few models, especially with price differences being what they are. No one is trying to decide between a $300 entry level iPad and an $800 iPad Pro; their target markets are mutually exclusive. Same with SE vs. iPhone Pro”

Contradicting yourself.<snip>

Agreed, people should ask questions. The same way they do when they go into a dealership to buy a car. But most people can narrow down the selection very easily based on price. Very few would cross shop a Hyundai Elantra with a Mercedes S Class AMG. (but yet on car forums, the tripe that is posted...)

 

[UK-MacAddict]

The XDR got very good reviews, so this isn't all "fluff".

Really? You are going to go down that path of crowd shaming an individual for their purchases because you have a beef with Apple and want to punish them?


Agreed, people should ask questions. The same way they do when they go into a dealership to buy a car. But most people can narrow down the selection very easily based on price. Very few would cross shop a Hyundai Elantra with a Mercedes S Class AMG. (but yet on car forums, the tripe that is posted...)

- XDR is a great regular LCD display and if it was priced reasonably at around £1500-£2000 (including the stand) it would be worth the money.

The Thunderbolt Display stand was made of aluminium but that came with the display. The only difference with the XDR is that the stand has a magnet one end to attach it.

The reason they charged so much for the display was that it was marketed as close to a reference monitor in performance, which turns out in reality it is not. So that is misleading and not worth the price.

I've seen both the nano coating XDR and the regular glass XDR and the screens looked no different to the iMac 5K display in terms of colours produced. The screen was slightly sharper. The nano coating actually makes everything fuzzy and really bad to look at. it washed out the colours, text was hard to read and viewing angles suffered.

- I don't have a beef with Apple I still purchase their products and find them great to use. But their recent price gouging needs to be called out. Im pretty sure nobody in their right mind would agree that £1000 for a stand great value for money.

Apple always say products are fairly priced, then prove it. Release the raw data for production and R&D for each product they sell. Show exactly the amount of mark up they apply. Then if its really fair then everyone like me will shut up. But Im pretty sure it will show how much they overcharge for their goods.

- The car comparison doesn't really apply. The price difference between iPhones and iPads is probably around £100-£400 and with Apples current confusing lineup bleeding into one another its a harder choice to make. Which is why I always argue for streamlining the entire product line in a coherent manner.

In terms of cars you are talking a difference the thousands or tens of thousands. Of course it will be easier to narrow down the choice by price.

 

[PickUrPoison]

1)Thats exactly how it’s marketed otherwise they wouldn’t have said it. Apple carefully construct and curate everything so that wasn’t a mistake they left that comment in a presentation, they read off auto cues. One look at the product webpage the first few things it says is “over a billion colours presented with exceptional accuracy” And “pro XDR takes brightness, contrast and colour to a new level, delivering the truest representation of your work”.

People like you who take anything Apple put out at any price that allows them to continue to charge exorbitant prices. I’ve heard of fanboy but you thinking £1000 for a stand is priced correctly is a joke lol.

2) The pound is typically stronger than the US dollar in 2004 is was $2 to every £1. In the following years it floated around $1.75 to $1.50 to every £1 until Brexit.

Apple don’t adjust fairly for inflation they’ll raise prices here if the pound weakens but slow to take back that price increase when the pound recovers.

3) By your own logic customers are aware of what iPad Apple is targeting them with. They should know based on price straight away which one is for them.

“People are smart enough to choose between a few models, especially with price differences being what they are. No one is trying to decide between a $300 entry level iPad and an $800 iPad Pro; their target markets are mutually exclusive. Same with SE vs. iPhone Pro”

Contradicting yourself.

Theres plenty of demand for years now calling for a headless iMac. They should discontinue the Mac Mini and put a mid range tower in its place with all the iMac internals but make them user replaceable like the current Mac Pro.

4)Take away all that and the base price is still more than in the US. Bottom line they can reduce prices in the UK but choose to try and shaft us with higher pricing.

Maybe they should balance the prices before tax etc so the US and UK prices are equal. That way we’d pay around £50-£100 less and you guys would only need to pay an extra $50-$100 more per iPhone.

1) The XDR is a large, high density, very high-quality display. You complain the price is too expensive. Too expensive compared to what? I’m not seeing anything in the market for the price you’d prefer to pay.

re: the stand, charging $5k for the monitor and $1k for the stand is much preferable to just charging $6k for the monitor with stand. Since many in the target market don’t need a stand, they save $1,000. Those who do need it are no worse off, they still pay $6k.

What you want is the monitor + stand for $5k. Sorry, that’s not going to happen. Apple charges $6k for that.

Would you be happier if the monitor was $5,900 and the stand $100? How does that benefit all those who don’t need a stand? They’re much better off with a $5,000 monitor and a $1,000 stand. Those who need both would pay $6,000 regardless.

2) The UK’s exchange rate and VAT aren’t Apple’s problem. As I already explained to you, after adjusting for VAT and the exchange rate, there’s little difference in price.

Exchange rates float. Sometimes it works for you, sometimes against. Apple changes prices infrequently. Right now, the Mac Pro is £5,499, only £4,583 before the £916 in VAT. That’s only $5,702 in US dollars—almost a $300 discount. That’s nothing to bitch about.

Nobody ever bitches about the exchange rate when it goes in their favor, do they?

3) No idea what your point is. Despite your claim to the contrary, people are smart enough to choose between a $300 iPad, a $500 iPad or one for $800.

If they don’t understand the features/benefits, they can always do some research or ask someone who’s knowledgeable. It’s no different than buying anything else, is it? In any case, catering to the least knowledgeable by only giving customers one option is a foolish idea.

re: a midrange tower, you claim there’s plenty of demand but you're just making that up, aren’t you? I’ll never understand why people here think they know what Apple “should” do better than Apple themselves.

4) Sometimes FX works for you, sometimes against. You see it in the UK specifically, and across all geographies in the aggregate. If you listen to the conference call or read the notes to the financials, you’ll see some quarters have a small gain, some quarters a small loss, based on the effects of FX.

That’s the way international monetary exchange currently works. Perhaps you’ve found a better way?

 

[UK-MacAddict]

1) The XDR is a large, high density, very high-quality display. You complain the price is too expensive. Too expensive compared to what? I’m not seeing anything in the market for the price you’d prefer to pay.

re: the stand, charging $5k for the monitor and $1k for the stand is much preferable to just charging $6k for the monitor with stand. Since many in the target market don’t need a stand, they save $1,000. Those who do need it are no worse off, they still pay $6k.

What you want is the monitor + stand for $5k. Sorry, that’s not going to happen. Apple charges $6k for that.

Would you be happier if the monitor was $5,900 and the stand $100? How does that benefit all those who don’t need a stand? They’re much better off with a $5,000 monitor and a $1,000 stand. Those who need both would pay $6,000 regardless.

2) The UK’s exchange rate and VAT aren’t Apple’s problem. As I already explained to you, after adjusting for VAT and the exchange rate, there’s little difference in price.

Exchange rates float. Sometimes it works for you, sometimes against. Apple changes prices infrequently. Right now, the Mac Pro is £5,499, only £4,583 before the £916 in VAT. That’s only $5,702 in US dollars—almost a $300 discount. That’s nothing to bitch about.

Nobody ever bitches about the exchange rate when it goes in their favor, do they?

3) No idea what your point is. Despite your claim to the contrary, people are smart enough to choose between a $300 iPad, a $500 iPad or one for $800.

If they don’t understand the features/benefits, they can always do some research or ask someone who’s knowledgeable. It’s no different than buying anything else, is it? In any case, catering to the least knowledgeable by only giving customers one option is a foolish idea.

re: a midrange tower, you claim there’s plenty of demand but you're just making that up, aren’t you? I’ll never understand why people here think they know what Apple “should” do better than Apple themselves.

4) Sometimes FX works for you, sometimes against. You see it in the UK specifically, and across all geographies in the aggregate. If you listen to the conference call or read the notes to the financials, you’ll see some quarters have a small gain, some quarters a small loss, based on the effects of FX.

That’s the way international monetary exchange currently works. Perhaps you’ve found a better way?

1) The XDR is no different to what comes on an iMac or the LG Display Apple sell. It has higher resolution and smoother scrolling maybe but other than that nothing remarkable to justify the price. Take away the iMac internals and the screen like the LG is probably worth around £1500.

I had the XDR demoed to me in the store and had it side by side with the iMac 5K and other than being slightly sharper it was identical in performance.

In regards to the stand as stated it should be included in a total package worth £1500-£2000.

2) Exchange rates are not Apples problem but they are quick to react when it goes in their favour of being able to increase prices but slow to react when it goes the other way.

3) Point is you’re contradicting your own comments, go read them again.

You’re not understanding my argument from the beginning. My point is under the one model strategy it controlled Apples ability to set ridiculous prices and meant everyone got the very best Apple had to offer without compromise. All the latest cameras, tech etc was in that particular one model this benefitted everyone.

Apple couldn’t charge exorbitant pricing because they only had one model to market and they wanted it to sell. They obviously wanted to not lose money so the eventual price was mid tier pricing, resulting in everyone paying more reasonable prices and having the exact same model bar storage tiers.

Take the iPhone range for example if there was only one model of iPhone available. They sure as hell wouldn’t be charging £1300-£1500 for one. Sales of the iPhone 11 Pro at these prices are already very low in comparison to the iPhone 11 which is mid tier pricing so that would be a massive fail.

So, if only one model was available the price points would be set at what the iPhone 11 currently is maybe slightly more but not breaching £1000. For that same mid tier price point you would get everything that Apple has to offer, the triple camera set up, Face ID etc. Nobody would need to decide which features to compromise on and what features to sacrifice.

4) I could say you’re just making it up that there isn’t demand? There’s plenty of comments in these forums calling out for one. Take away the Mac Mini and replace it with a small tower, alot of people would be happy. It wont make much difference to a Mac Mini user.

Apple don’t always make the right decision so yes sometimes the customer is right. Apple Watch Edition for £10,000+ was a laughable failure, the Apple Newton and the Apple Pippin games console. The trash can Mac Pro which was non upgradedable and pinned themselves into a thermal corner that they spent 7 years to find an alternative to. Took them 7 years to realise the G5 tower was a perfect solution so just built it again but with a lattice pattern on the front and slapped an exorbitant price on it.

Maybe trying to sue Qualcomm whilst using their technology patents and refusing to pay them for it was a good decision? Or slowing down peoples phones without warning.

5) I said disregard tax and FX rates and look at the base price in each country. They should be identical. The US pays around $50 less for iPhone before tax etc. Either discount the UK prices by the same amount or increase the US price.

I believe with the iPhone XS and 11 Pro some models actually had a price reduction whilst in the UK the prices increased. So we’re kind of covering your price savings you should be thanking us.

 

[PickUrPoison]

1) The XDR is no different to what comes on an iMac or the LG Display Apple sell. It has higher resolution and smoother scrolling maybe but other than that nothing remarkable to justify the price. Take away the iMac internals and the screen like the LG is probably worth around £1500.

I had the XDR demoed to me in the store and had it side by side with the iMac 5K and other than being slightly sharper it was identical in performance.

In regards to the stand as stated it should be included in a total package worth £1500-£2000.

2) Exchange rates are not Apples problem but they are quick to react when it goes in their favour of being able to increase prices but slow to react when it goes the other way.

3) Point is you’re contradicting your own comments, go read them again.

You’re not understanding my argument from the beginning. My point is under the one model strategy it controlled Apples ability to set ridiculous prices and meant everyone got the very best Apple had to offer without compromise. All the latest cameras, tech etc was in that particular one model this benefitted everyone.

Apple couldn’t charge exorbitant pricing because they only had one model to market and they wanted it to sell. They obviously wanted to not lose money so the eventual price was mid tier pricing, resulting in everyone paying more reasonable prices and having the exact same model bar storage tiers.

Take the iPhone range for example if there was only one model of iPhone available. They sure as hell wouldn’t be charging £1300-£1500 for one. Sales of the iPhone 11 Pro at these prices are already very low in comparison to the iPhone 11 which is mid tier pricing so that would be a massive fail.

So, if only one model was available the price points would be set at what the iPhone 11 currently is maybe slightly more but not breaching £1000. For that same mid tier price point you would get everything that Apple has to offer, the triple camera set up, Face ID etc. Nobody would need to decide which features to compromise on and what features to sacrifice.

4) I could say you’re just making it up that there isn’t demand? There’s plenty of comments in these forums calling out for one. Take away the Mac Mini and replace it with a small tower, alot of people would be happy. It wont make much difference to a Mac Mini user.

Apple don’t always make the right decision so yes sometimes the customer is right. Apple Watch Edition for £10,000+ was a laughable failure, the Apple Newton and the Apple Pippin games console. The trash can Mac Pro which was non upgradedable and pinned themselves into a thermal corner that they spent 7 years to find an alternative to. Took them 7 years to realise the G5 tower was a perfect solution so just built it again but with a lattice pattern on the front and slapped an exorbitant price on it.

Maybe trying to sue Qualcomm whilst using their technology patents and refusing to pay them for it was a good decision? Or slowing down peoples phones without warning.

5) I said disregard tax and FX rates and look at the base price in each country. They should be identical. The US pays around $50 less for iPhone before tax etc. Either discount the UK prices by the same amount or increase the US price.

I believe with the iPhone XS and 11 Pro some models actually had a price reduction whilst in the UK the prices increased. So we’re kind of covering your price savings you should be thanking us.

1) You can want to pay £1,500-2,000 for a $5,000-6,000 monitor, it’s no different from someone wanting to pay $500 for an iPhone 11 Pro or $1,000 for a 15” MBP. But those aren’t going to happen either.

Apple doesn’t price based on what UK-MacAddict is willing or able to pay; your preference isn’t particularly relevant. As long as Apple is selling the quantity they expect to, the pricing is fine. You don’t have to like the prices, but that’s not relevant to Apple or their customers. And if there’s a better-priced alternative, you certainly haven’t named it.

2) Sometimes FX works for you, sometimes against. In the last quarter, losses on FX cost Apple about $600 million, despite your complaints. Some things are cheaper in the UK than in the US right now, and some things are more expensive. No one bitches when they’re cheaper, do they?

3) You want the most expensive features of a $1,000 iPhone for 700, I get it. You’ve been very clear that you think Apple products are overpriced. But the millions of customers who are perfectly willing and able to pay the prices Apple is charging contradict the notion that the products are overpriced.

As long as Apple is selling the quantity of Pro phones they want to, then the products are not overpriced. By definition. You calling them overpriced means nothing.

4) You think you know better than Apple does about what Apple should do, but there’s no basis for you to think that. If Apple thinks it can make money from Mac mini but not a midrange tower, that’s what they’re going to do.

What you think you know isn’t relevant. It’s fun to guess about what products Apple might make and what their cost might be, but there’s often little basis in reality for such speculation. imo, you have as much likelihood of getting a $2,000 tower as you do a $2,000 XDR.

5) Sometimes prices are higher due to FX, sometimes lower. As I already mentioned, last quarter Apple lost about $600 million due to FX going against them in the aggregate. The FX premium paid by the UK didn’t even cover the discounts received by other countries 🙁

So no, the UK pricing isn’t subsidizing iPhone pricing here in the States. It did keep Apple from losing even more than $600 million on FX last quarter though, so at least that’s something.

btw if lower iPhone pricing is important to you, you might want to lobby your government to eliminate the additional consumer protections you enjoy, compared to us here in the US. As long as your warranty exceeds the one-year limited warranty we get here, your pricing will probably exceed ours. Higher warranty costs are built into the pricing; there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

1) You can want to pay £1,500-2,000 for a $5,000-6,000 monitor, it’s no different from someone wanting to pay $500 for an iPhone 11 Pro or $1,000 for a 15” MBP. But those aren’t going to happen either.

Apple doesn’t price based on what UK-MacAddict is willing or able to pay; your preference isn’t particularly relevant. As long as Apple is selling the quantity they expect to, the pricing is fine. You don’t have to like the prices, but that’s not relevant to Apple or their customers. And if there’s a better-priced alternative, you certainly haven’t named it.

2) Sometimes FX works for you, sometimes against. In the last quarter, losses on FX cost Apple about $600 million, despite your complaints. Some things are cheaper in the UK than in the US right now, and some things are more expensive. No one bitches when they’re cheaper, do they?

3) You want the most expensive features of a $1,000 iPhone for 700, I get it. You’ve been very clear that you think Apple products are overpriced. But the millions of customers who are perfectly willing and able to pay the prices Apple is charging contradict the notion that the products are overpriced.

As long as Apple is selling the quantity of Pro phones they want to, then the products are not overpriced. By definition. You calling them overpriced means nothing.

4) You think you know better than Apple does about what Apple should do, but there’s no basis for you to think that. If Apple thinks it can make money from Mac mini but not a midrange tower, that’s what they’re going to do.

What you think you know isn’t relevant. It’s fun to guess about what products Apple might make and what their cost might be, but there’s often little basis in reality for such speculation. imo, you have as much likelihood of getting a $2,000 tower as you do a $2,000 XDR.

5) Sometimes prices are higher due to FX, sometimes lower. As I already mentioned, last quarter Apple lost about $600 million due to FX going against them in the aggregate. The FX premium paid by the UK didn’t even cover the discounts received by other countries 🙁

So no, the UK pricing isn’t subsidizing iPhone pricing here in the States. It did keep Apple from losing even more than $600 million on FX last quarter though, so at least that’s something.

btw if lower iPhone pricing is important to you, you might want to lobby your government to eliminate the additional consumer protections you enjoy, compared to us here in the US. As long as your warranty exceeds the one-year limited warranty we get here, your pricing will probably exceed ours. Higher warranty costs are built into the pricing; there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

1) I should be paying £2000 tops because thats what the technology inside it is worth.

The XDR display is no different to what is inside an iMac 5K or the LG monitor they sell. In fact apart from resolution it is not much different from the Thunderbolt displays they replaced. So the XDR is not an alternative to anything just a more exorbitantly priced Thunderbolt Display with a new name printed on it.

2) Obviously no one bitches when something is cheaper, but when prices increase greatly there should be some stabilisation the subsequent years. They should not be constantly increasing prices year upon year for iterative updates and they are iterative updates. Nothing in Apples line up has seen revolutionary changes for nearly a decade now.

3) I used to get the most expensive features of a £1000+ iPhone for £750-£800 when the one model strategy was in place.

If people thought the iPhone 11 Pro range was worth the money it would be the best selling iPhone not the iPhone 11.

4) Nobody knows better, not myself or Apple. They take a gamble on a product they assume in their opinion will sell well and its not always right. The Apple Watch at £10,000 for example, some Apple employee in their opinion assumed this would be a good idea. Turns out they were dead wrong.

I can suggest a tower as a Mac mini replacement, it may or may not work. Everything is opinion whether it comes from myself or Apple.

5) Show me the figures to back up your point.

We don't have extended warranties here in the UK. We still have the standard 1 year warranty on our Apple products from the date of purchase so they can't raise prices based on length of warranty.

What you are speaking of I believe are some legal consumer protections. Also they are very hard to claim meaning Apple loses very little money over it.

You must pay for your own diagnostics on the products from a third party and provide evidence to Apple. You cannot claim without evidence like you can under a standard 1 year warranty. Usually the diagnostic test costs more than the product is worth especially in the cases of older iPads and iPhones. As a result a lot of people don't bother and cannot use that consumer protection.

 

[PickUrPoison]

1) I should be paying £2000 tops because thats what the technology inside it is worth.

The XDR display is no different to what is inside an iMac 5K or the LG monitor they sell. In fact apart from resolution it is not much different from the Thunderbolt displays they replaced. So the XDR is not an alternative to anything just a more exorbitantly priced Thunderbolt Display with a new name printed on it.

2) Obviously no one bitches when something is cheaper, but when prices increase greatly there should be some stabilisation the subsequent years. They should not be constantly increasing prices year upon year for iterative updates and they are iterative updates. Nothing in Apples line up has seen revolutionary changes for nearly a decade now.

3) I used to get the most expensive features of a £1000+ iPhone for £750-£800 when the one model strategy was in place.

If people thought the iPhone 11 Pro range was worth the money it would be the best selling iPhone not the iPhone 11.

4) Nobody knows better, not myself or Apple. They take a gamble on a product they assume in their opinion will sell well and its not always right. The Apple Watch at £10,000 for example, some Apple employee in their opinion assumed this would be a good idea. Turns out they were dead wrong.

I can suggest a tower as a Mac mini replacement, it may or may not work. Everything is opinion whether it comes from myself or Apple.

5) Show me the figures to back up your point.

We don't have extended warranties here in the UK. We still have the standard 1 year warranty on our Apple products from the date of purchase so they can't raise prices based on length of warranty.

What you are speaking of I believe are some legal consumer protections. Also they are very hard to claim meaning Apple loses very little money over it.

You must pay for your own diagnostics on the products from a third party and provide evidence to Apple. You cannot claim without evidence like you can under a standard 1 year warranty. Usually the diagnostic test costs more than the product is worth especially in the cases of older iPads and iPhones. As a result a lot of people don't bother and cannot use that consumer protection.

1) You just saying it’s overpriced doesn’t make it true, didn’t we establish that 4-5 posts ago?

You still haven’t identified a better priced monitor than Apple’s; may we assume at this point that all better monitors are tens of thousands of dollars? Is there a better 31.5” 6K monitor even available, at any price?

2) Some people have been saying Apple is overpriced for 35 years. They’re still wrong.

3) Bad logic. The most expensive product in the lineup is rarely the best selling—and not because it isn’t the best.

4) Apple does a helluva lot of market research, and they have an ungodly amount of data about what people do with their Macs. I think they’re in a much better position than you are to determine demand for hypothetical products. You can disagree.

5) Per the conference call transcript: Luca Maestri, CFO, Apple Inc.: “So the revenue for the quarter was $58.3 billion, up 1% from a year ago, despite the extreme circumstances from the impact of COVID-19 and a headwind of 100 basis points from foreign exchange.”

Apple Inc. (AAPL) Q2 2020 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool

AAPL earnings call for the period ending March 28, 2020.

www.fool.com

 

[UK-MacAddict]

1) You just saying it’s overpriced doesn’t make it true, didn’t we establish that 4-5 posts ago?

You still haven’t identified a better priced monitor than Apple’s; may we assume at this point that all better monitors are tens of thousands of dollars? Is there a better 31.5” 6K monitor even available, at any price?

2) Some people have been saying Apple is overpriced for 35 years. They’re still wrong.

3) Bad logic. The most expensive product in the lineup is rarely the best selling—and not because it isn’t the best.

4) Apple does a helluva lot of market research, and they have an ungodly amount of data about what people do with their Macs. I think they’re in a much better position than you are to determine demand for hypothetical products. You can disagree.

5) Per the conference call transcript: Luca Maestri, CFO, Apple Inc.: “So the revenue for the quarter was $58.3 billion, up 1% from a year ago, despite the extreme circumstances from the impact of COVID-19 and a headwind of 100 basis points from foreign exchange.”

Apple Inc. (AAPL) Q2 2020 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool

AAPL earnings call for the period ending March 28, 2020.

www.fool.com

1) The XDR display is no better than what is currently available so it is irrelevant the need to find a better monitor.

You cannot compare the XDR to more expensive and better performing monitors when the XDR itself performs no better than what Apple offer in the 5K iMac or the LG display currently on sale.

2) It is your opinion they are wrong, doesn't mean you're right. Falling iPhone sales says differently.

3) Missing the point completely in your answer. If Apple only sold the iPhone 11 Pro and that was it, what would they price it at? All models have the latest features. The only difference between them are storage tiers and screen size.

Bearing in mind it is the lowest selling iPhone in the entire lineup. Guarantee they would not be selling it at current prices.

4) I will disagree. Market research is mostly useless, thats how Apple operated when they were most successful.

If they asked people if they wanted a phone without buttons probably 99% of them would have said no, which is why they were so ahead of the game for the next 2-3 years.

5) Show me data for the UK specifically. That figure is global. Show me data for the UK alone and how they calculate costs for an iPhone in the UK.

 

[Abazigal]

All your posts are sounding repetitive, you should just stop responding.

My turn then.

1) The XDR display is no better than what is currently available so it is irrelevant the need to find a better monitor.

You cannot compare the XDR to more expensive and better performing monitors when the XDR itself performs no better than what Apple offer in the 5K iMac or the LG display currently on sale.

I wasn’t aware that Apple sold a 5k iMac iMac or LG display with a 6k display, a metal enclosure or the ability to rotate it into portrait mode.

2) It is your opinion they are wrong, doesn't mean you're right. Falling iPhone sales says differently.

Falling smartphone sales indicate that people are holding on to their phones longer, because they have gotten good enough that fewer people see the need to upgrade every year or every 2 years.

It’s basically the PC industry all over again.

3) Missing the point completely in your answer. If Apple only sold the iPhone 11 Pro and that was it, what would they price it at? All models have the latest features. The only difference between them are storage tiers and screen size.

Bearing in mind it is the lowest selling iPhone in the entire lineup. Guarantee they would not be selling it at current prices.

The counterpoint to that is that if Apple knew that they could only charge 1 price for an iphone, we may never have gotten the 11 pro or 11 pro max at all, for the simply reason that the phone would have cost more to design and make than Apple could profitably sell it for.

The pro max costs what it does for a very simple reason - it cost more to make. I mean, just take the price of the 11 pro max, and deduct 40%. You are left with a cost price that is higher than what you feel Apple ought to charge for it. How does that even make sense?

We may have gotten something less, or a compromise. Instead, the existence of cheaper models like the iPhone 11 is precisely what allows Apple to go all out and create a product like the pro max for the consumers who want the best that Apple can offer and don’t mind paying for it.

Apple seems to have found the right product mix that allows them to serve as wide an audience as possible, and this is to be celebrated, IMO, because it means there is something for everyone, regardless of income level.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

My turn then.



I wasn’t aware that Apple sold a 5k iMac iMac or LG display with a 6k display, a metal enclosure or the ability to rotate it into portrait mode.



Falling smartphone sales indicate that people are holding on to their phones longer, because they have gotten good enough that fewer people see the need to upgrade every year or every 2 years.

It’s basically the PC industry all over again.



The counterpoint to that is that if Apple knew that they could only charge 1 price for an iphone, we may never have gotten the 11 pro or 11 pro max at all, for the simply reason that the phone would have cost more to design and make than Apple could profitably sell it for.

The pro max costs what it does for a very simple reason - it cost more to make. I mean, just take the price of the 11 pro max, and deduct 40%. You are left with a cost price that is higher than what you feel Apple ought to charge for it. How does that even make sense?

We may have gotten something less, or a compromise. Instead, the existence of cheaper models like the iPhone 11 is precisely what allows Apple to go all out and create a product like the pro max for the consumers who want the best that Apple can offer and don’t mind paying for it.

Apple seems to have found the right product mix that allows them to serve as wide an audience as possible, and this is to be celebrated, IMO, because it means there is something for everyone, regardless of income level.

1) <Deleted by the moderator>

2) Apple having been selling displays in a aluminium enclosure for years. They were called the Apple Cinema Display and Thunderbolt Display. The actual enclosure would be negligible in the XDR pricing. The XDR is basically the same thing with some added resolution, smoother scrolling, and rip off price. The display on its own without the enclosure is not worth it which is where the bulk of the price comes from.

Having seen the XDR, iMac and LG side by side in the Apple store there's next to zero difference between them.

3) Yes the increase in prices have also in turn made people keep them longer because dropping £1000+ on a phone every year isn't what a lot of people want to do.

Apples mantra is to make the best products possible. That was drilled in by Steve Jobs. So if they really are following his legacy then the iPhone 11 Pro would have happened regardless and if it was the only phone available it would be sub £1000.

 

[I7guy]

1) <Deleted by the moderator>

2) Apple having been selling displays in a aluminium enclosure for years. They were called the Apple Cinema Display and Thunderbolt Display. The actual enclosure would be negligible in the XDR pricing. The XDR is basically the same thing with some added resolution, smoother scrolling, and rip off price. The display on its own without the enclosure is not worth it which is where the bulk of the price comes from.

Having seen the XDR, iMac and LG side by side in the Apple store there's next to zero difference between them.

That's your anecdotal opinion. You are not the target market for this monitor, nor the stand.

3) Yes the increase in prices have also in turn made people keep them longer because dropping £1000+ on a phone every year isn't what a lot of people want to do.

The world has changed and Apple is doing what it has to be doing. By the objective measure of their financial success and not the subjective measure of a few MacRumors posters, they are doing what they need to be doing.

Apples mantra is to make the best products possible. That was drilled in by Steve Jobs. So if they really are following his legacy then the iPhone 11 Pro would have happened regardless and if it was the only phone available it would be sub £1000.

Apples' mantra is "think different" (google what is apple's mantra. Some creative types will create a snark mantra based on their own viewpoint of apple.) They are following the legacy, but times have changed and Apple needs to change with the times. (this is a very general statement, but if companies don't adapt, their competitors will eat them for lunch) "Think Different" isn't about producing the most high-end product at the lowest possible price. Nor is it about appeasing the criticism their products are "overpriced".

 

[UK-MacAddict]

That's your anecdotal opinion. You are not the target market for this monitor, nor the stand.

The world has changed and Apple is doing what it has to be doing. By the objective measure of their financial success and not the subjective measure of a few MacRumors posters, they are doing what they need to be doing.

Apples' mantra is "think different" (google what is apple's mantra. Some creative types will create a snark mantra based on their own viewpoint of apple.) They are following the legacy, but times have changed and Apple needs to change with the times. (this is a very general statement, but if companies don't adapt, their competitors will eat them for lunch) "Think Different" isn't about producing the most high-end product at the lowest possible price. Nor is it about appeasing the criticism their products are "overpriced".

Their target market is anybody who wants an Apple branded display and is willing to pay that price.

Apple is no longer focused on making the best products. They care more about the bottom line. Their hardware sales are not as good as they used to be which is why they have branched into services. This has grown a lot for them and will likely continue to in the future. The only thing people can hope for is that as this area become more successful they will bring back hardware prices to a normal level.

Motto and mantra are two different things. Their motto is "Think Different". Steve Jobs mantra was to be laser focused on making the best possible products they can make for the consumer. Breaking down the iPhone lineup forcing consumers to compromise on features is not making the best product.

 

[I7guy]

Their target market is anybody who wants an Apple branded display and is willing to pay that price.

That is correct. Apple doesn't do a wet finger in the air. You have to believe they do their market research. The XDR for example seems to target individuals who have a need for that type of display.

Apple is no longer focused on making the best products.

In your opinion, there is no objective measure to show this is a fact.

They care more about the bottom line.

The bottom line comes from making great products that their customers want to buy.

Their hardware sales are not as good as they used to be which is why they have branched into services. This has grown a lot for them and will likely continue to in the future. The only thing people can hope for is that as this area become more successful they will bring back hardware prices to a normal level.

It won't. Apple has forecast this and set a strategy in place to offset it. The strategy is working according the most recent fiscal quarter.

Motto and mantra are two different things. Their motto is "Think Different". Steve Jobs mantra was to be laser focused on making the best possible products they can make for the consumer. Breaking down the iPhone lineup forcing consumers to compromise on features is not making the best product.

Giving customers the choice they want at the price point they want, is making the best product. Artificially limiting consumer choice as in pre-2011, shows greed. This is 2020, not 2007.

The only objective measure of Apple's success is the quarterly financial calls. Everything else is opinion on top of opinion.

 

[Abazigal]

Apples mantra is to make the best products possible. That was drilled in by Steve Jobs. So if they really are following his legacy then the iPhone 11 Pro would have happened regardless and if it was the only phone available it would be sub £1000.

I still don't think it would have happened in its current form and incarnation. For example, we may never have gotten an OLED iPhone if Apple had only one price point and they couldn't raise it enough to factor in the cost of those costly displays. It feels disingenuous to just handwave and assume that Apple would have found a way to sell a phone at less than what it cost to make and still profit from it.

Also, the chief reason why Apple released just one iPhone and iPad model each year was because that was all the Apple of its time had the resources for. So I don't think that Steve Jobs refrained from releasing multiple models (heck, they had numerous iPod and MacBook models, and the 2008 MBA was expensive as heck) out of some personal conviction, it's just that they only had enough resources to focus on making 1 iPhone a year, and so that was the strategy they went with.

The Apple of today is a lot larger, and serves a far larger user base. One size no longer fits all, and I personally don't see it as a bad thing that they have a wide array of products that hit all price points. For example, someone like myself who uses the iPad extensively for work has the option of opting for the iPad Pro, replete with the Smart Keyboard and Apple Pencil. Someone who needs an iPad only for the basic functions can go with a cheaper entry-level iPad, and avoid paying for all the bells and whistles that they don't need. That's smart market segmentation right there.

Likewise, consumers have the option of the iPhone SE all the way to the 11 Pro Max, or even the option of older models (which still continue to get software updates). Same with laptops (you have the entry level MBA all the way to the 16" MBP), admittedly not so much with desktops, though while we are at it, I do feel the reason why we don't have an xMac is because the iMac already exists, and it doesn't feel a niche the way the Mac mini and Mac Pro do.

Same with the Apple Watch (the series 3) and AirPods.

It does seem to me that Apple is still focused on making the best products possible. What's changed is that they are now in a position to make the best product for each respective price point, compared to last time when they only had the means to hit one of them (and so went for the most accessible one). And of course the product at a lower price point is not going to be as good as a more expensive offering. It's just simple economics at work (better specs entail higher costs, and so retail for more), not a sign of Apple having lost its way.

 

[kittycat40]

Actually from iPhones 7 to 8 there was only a $50 increase in one generation: $649 to $699. The XR had another $50 increase to $749, but with the iPhone 11 the price dropped back to $699. That’s actually cheaper than the $649 2011 iPhone 4s, taking inflation into account. No exorbitant price increase—rather, a price cut.

The X, a new super-premium tier iPhone, was introduced at $999. There was no price increase from a previous year, as it was the first year of a brand new model. Subsequent models have had no price increase; XS and 11 Pro were also $999.

Not sure why you mention the Max, both the XS and 11 Pro were $1,099. Only $100 more for the larger model, just like the Plus model was compared to the 6/6s/7/8.

Yes, but some fail to take into account that although the iPhone 7 to 8 was a $50 increase in price. There was a base storage increase from 32GB in the iPhone 7 to 64GB in the iPhone 8.