iFixit Indicates Third-Party 2018 MacBook Pro, iMac Pro Repairs Still Possible For Now

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Oct 6, 2018.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    Earlier this week, MacRumors obtained an internal document from Apple stating that Macs with the Apple T2 chip, including the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro, must pass Apple diagnostics for certain repairs to be completed.


    The document states:
    Apple's diagnostic software is limited to internal use by Genius Bars at Apple Stores, Apple Authorized Service Providers, and qualifying institutions, suggesting that independent repair shops without Apple certification would be unable to repair certain parts on the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro going forward.

    Moreover, the document reignited a debate about planned obsolescence, as there were concerns that when Apple stops servicing the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro, repairs through alternative channels might not be possible.

    The news was quickly opposed by "Right to Repair" activists who believe that Apple and other device manufacturers should be legally required to make replacement parts, repair guides, and tools available to the public. Apple has and continues to actively oppose "Right to Repair" legislation in the United States.

    Those activists will be delighted to hear that, for whatever reason, what Apple said in its document isn't actually the case right now.

    After our report was published, the repair experts at iFixit swapped out the display and logic board on a 2018 MacBook Pro, and the notebook remained operational without being subjected to Apple's diagnostic software.

    iFixit swapping out parts on 2018 MacBook Pro

    iFixit is not an Apple Authorized Service Provider, so at this time, it appears that independent repair shops should remain able to repair the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro without issue. It's unclear why Apple's document suggests otherwise, but it's possible the requirement could kick in at a later date.

    Apple did not respond to our request for comment.

    Article Link: iFixit Indicates Third-Party 2018 MacBook Pro, iMac Pro Repairs Still Possible For Now
  2. RumorConsumer macrumors 6502a


    Jun 16, 2016
    The reason they are doing this is to protect the parts in case somebody is trying to break the encryption. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. Im a bit disappointed that this didn't get more overtly mentioned as a valid reason in the article.
  3. Yebubbleman macrumors 68030


    May 20, 2010
    Los Angeles, CA
    Yet another "lovely" "benefit" of the T2 chip. In the name of "security", you only get to repair your machine on Apple's watch. Thereby making it a paperweight if anything goes wrong once it's deemed obsolete in 5-7 years. "But think of the security benefits!" People will seriously embrace all kinds of stupid in the name of security.
  4. vagos macrumors member


    Oct 19, 2014
    The activists are right on this one. Apple should be forced to make their products repairable.
  5. Logan VII macrumors newbie

    Aug 19, 2013
    Wait til that gets to the EU...
    --- Post Merged, Oct 6, 2018 ---
    Wait til that gets to the EU...
  6. DeepIn2U macrumors 603


    May 30, 2002
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I keep reading this about “paperweight” for a machine that’s 5-7yrs old.

    What kind of performance do you expect a computer to have in 5-7yrs from now? Web technologies most likely will change, software component requirements not to mention security updates may no longer be available by Apple in this case for a machine that old.

    Back in 2008 I purchased a Ti_Book (PowerBook titanium) G4 at 450Mhz with 1GB RAM and 50GB HDD as a primary machine to refresh my skills in OSX after 2yr a sense from that OS at that time. Safari could not be updated and it was VERY evident that surfing pages using Flash was a serious pain! Performance in loading the page was super slow like AOL 1997 painfully slow!! This was just web browsing; email worked yet again very slow 10Mb/speeds (I’m not sure it had 100mb/s connectivity).

    I love that machine which was heavily damaged while moving. I’ll buy another in mint condition if I come across it again for nostalgic reasons but I’m NOT expecting anything more than email capability with it. I can’t even imagine back in 2002 what performance early FCP admins got out of it ... it’s unfathomable.

    Of course software and web HTML5 technologies seems to be stabilizing and not jumping about as fast as early 2000’ but I have to ask you what kind of performance do you expect out of a 5-7yr old machine with what is unknown in that timeframe?
  7. s15119 macrumors 68000


    Nov 20, 2010
    You should have read the article.
  8. bladerunner2000 macrumors 68020


    Jun 12, 2015
    Why doesn't Apple respect the RIGHT TO REPAIR?
  9. MakeAppleAwesomeAgain macrumors member


    Nov 21, 2016
    At this point I really don’t care anymore, Macs haven’t been user-friendly to fix for more than five years now. Just release the 2018 iMac and Mac Mini so I can buy a Mac with some recent hardware.
  10. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000


    Feb 10, 2015
    Chicago, Illinois
    It’s security; it’s not designed to force upgrades.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 6, 2018 ---
    Vote for right to repair laws and candidates that support them.
  11. Eli Kabong macrumors newbie

    Eli Kabong

    Oct 6, 2018
    You really are blowing things up out of proportion. There's an Apple-certified course to become an accredited repairer. It costs $150.
  12. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000


    Feb 10, 2015
    Chicago, Illinois
    They’d prefer security.

    Buy another brand or vote for right to repair laws in your jurisdiction.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 6, 2018 ---
    Easily justified and a reasonable business expense.

    Some people are apoplectic about this issue
  13. alex2792 macrumors 6502a

    Jun 13, 2009
    Well, I upgraded my dad’s 2011 MBP with an SSD and it runs like a champ.
  14. iapplelove macrumors 601


    Nov 22, 2011
    East Coast USA
    I would only take my machine to Apple anyways.
  15. limo79, Oct 6, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018

    limo79 macrumors regular

    Jan 9, 2009
    If Apple want to have a problem in EU go for it. Pseudo "eco friendly" company where cost of iPhone case repair is $550.
    This is a shame that fully functionally iPhone need go to the trash or be recycled while glass might be easily replaced by cheap 5$ matte plastic part that can be recycled. Greedy company that pollute Earth and think that recycling works everywhere. This woman in ecorags from keynote lives in some isolated Hollywood bubble like Jetsons. The most advanced company like Apple cannot (in fact they do not want) build a slim laptop with two memory slots and pcie ssd slot like HP EliteBook 1050 or Lenovo X1. They even cannot design a keyboard that might be easily replaced. Maybe time to ask Space X how to design a top case where keyboard cost 35$ and can be replaced easily assuming the same dimensions. Elon will bring a product ready to production after one week.
  16. HJ24 macrumors regular

    Oct 14, 2011

    While nobody is faulting them for protecting the encryption aspects, including the "Top Case" which includes, keyboard, trackpad, SPEAKER, in the list of things you can't repair is ridiculous. How does replacing a speaker or trackpad have anything to do with protecting the encryption and user data?
  17. Glmnet1, Oct 6, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018

    Glmnet1 macrumors 6502a

    Oct 21, 2017
    My 2011 MBP still works fine and is currently still my main work machine because I was able to add an SSD. Not supported by Mojave but High Sierra and Windows 10 still run fine on it.
    That course doesn't get you access to Apple's diagnostic software as explained in the article.
  18. Aston441 macrumors 65816

    Sep 16, 2014

    The things that most people do with computers:

    Web, games, email, spreadsheets

    Have not fundamentally changed in 10+ years.

    Not have computers.

    The web browsing experience on an XP desktop in 2008 was exactly the same as Win 10 on a desktop today.

    There is zero reason to obsolete old hardware today.
  19. DeepIn2U macrumors 603


    May 30, 2002
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada

    Flash on the web was heavily used for a LOT of sites in 2008. Not so much today in 2018. The background code on sites is becoming increasingly HTML 5 back in 2008 HTML 4 was becoming heavily mainstream. JavaScript also heavily changed since then.

    Email: web based was starting to become popular (yahoo and gmail), yet apps have heavily changed Outlook especially for POP3/IMAP (3/4) snd Exchange for push was heavily different form today using active sync. In fact back in 2008 activesync used sms for pull/push requests to be completed and failed in persona ce against BlackBerry and BES or BIS services. Don’t come at me with email not being changed if you’ve never supported personal and corporate email.

    Games: heavily changed LOL. 8MB ram was the norm on laptops for GPU and up to 64MB. Today we’re getting 2GB of video RAM for GPU and we never had integrated GPU on CPU dies!! So what you talking bout Willis!??!

    Spreadsheets have changed as well as the add-ins many people use in the corporate office. Heck even Googles Sheets now supports add-ins!! Come on man try a little harder please?!
  20. drewyboy macrumors 65816

    Jan 27, 2005
    The performance I expect is what I've had all along. My mid 2012 is just flying through things no problem at all. For code development and any typical business office work, this thing is way more than enough. I also do PCB design, some 3D design in Fusion 360, and some other stuff and again, I don't notice too much of, if any, slow down while doing these projects.
  21. AppleCorei7 macrumors newbie


    Jan 9, 2015
    Apple is quickly losing my support. I’ve decided to fix my 2014 MacBook Pro instead of upgrading and skipped out on the new iPhones. Other manufacturers and brands are now on my radar. Too many Apple supports would rather get less and pay more and that what is keeping them on their current path.
  22. DeepIn2U macrumors 603


    May 30, 2002
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    2011 MBP will work fine I agree. But OSX on it even with using a SATA3 SSD it’s still noticeable slower when running iTunes, GarageBand, or FruityLoops vs even a 2016 MBP. You also had to upgrade your RAM form 2/4 to 8/16GB to really have it sing!

    I constantly see a 2008/2011 MBP on kijiji in my city asking for $300-500 (even the 2008 machines) with no spec bumps than stock and I’m not gonna be a sucker at those prices. Yes they’ll do just fine even more so because Flash on websites is not OS heavily used before like in 2008. I’m not sure if you’ve been getting Safari updates either yet if you haven’t a few years then it’s likely you’re noticing a difference. Honestly when you get a newer Mac trust you’ll need some tissue to cleanup after yourself ;)

    Still your point made is agreed performance is still there and worth it. But I’m saying we all don’t know where the web is going or software is going in 5-7yrs so we have no idea what performance to expect of our current machines in that time line. Warranty is for 3yrs we’re all been spiked by Apple’s grace of 7yrs and we all love it and expect it. Yet deep down we all know Apple can change that and we’re all not ready to deal with it when that time comes.
  23. Spanky Deluxe macrumors 601

    Spanky Deluxe

    Mar 17, 2005
    London, UK
    5-7 years is a reasonable timeframe to be worried about in terms of the lifespan of a computer. You quote your example of a G4 computer (slow and old tech at the time of release, a whole different architecture behind what we use now).

    My example is that my laptop is a late 2008 15” MacBook Pro. The battery doesn’t last and I’ve had to replace the charger. It has an SSD now though and for browsing, Netflix, Word/Pages, Excel and coding, it’s still perfectly up to the task. It will be ten years old next month.

    My desktop is a 2009 Mac Pro upgraded with the 2010 firmware and some hexacore processors to be a 12 core machine. It has a GTX 970, so is on a par or faster than the current gem Mac Pro in most things. It’s a 8-9 year old machine.

    My monitor is a 2007 30” Apple Cinema Display because it’s taken over a decade for a monitor that has both a higher resolution and a larger physical size to be released (the Dell 8k one which is out of my monitor budget for now).

    The improvements in processor speeds and overall computational power is happening at a much slower pace these days so people upgrade less frequently. In order to force more frequent updates, planned obsolescence is a tactic that Apple appears to be using to get around this.
  24. DeepIn2U macrumors 603


    May 30, 2002
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Same argument I’m seeing. Yes you had to upgrade to SSD and most likely RAM. Upgrading isn’t what the topic is. It’s about repairs and support.

    Trust me the performance of that machine will not even compare to a 2015 MBP when you start the same applications. Yes outside of apps being updated on the newer model and tweaked to be more efficient given the hardware, but even the Safari will begin to show some signs of slow performance. It’s inevitable. Are you still expecting Apple to repair the logic board when it fails? I doubt you are and really you shouldn’t.

    We’re worried about Apple calling the 2018 MBP vintage in less than 5yrs vs the standard 7yrs. That’s a worry and we cannot upgrade any component on these machines. We sacrificed personal repair for higher performance and potential increased security and that’s up to personal views and debate and preference.
  25. SpeedyTheSnail macrumors regular


    Sep 22, 2018
    I don't know buddy, have you seen the Mac Mini that they still sell at full price with 4 year / 5 year old hardware?.

    I expect a computer that I bought to be repairable even after Apple or another company has released new ones. Nobody really needs the latest and greatest computers. I am using a 6 year old MBP with NO ISSUES right now.
    Why am I using a 6 year old MBP? Because Apple's new MBP is really a piece of garbage. I want a return to common sense "PRO" computers at the very least. Pros should be able to fix their own computers, even if it requires special tools and software, as well as the ability to upgrade ram and storage AFTER the purchase of the device.

    Apple has extremely poor "business ethics", especially now that Steve is gone [not that he was a saint, because he wasn't]. Apple could certainly use his innovation to release a quality computing product though, not everybody uses phones and tablets. Developers need a quality keyboard and don't need a paper thin computer. Who here has tried to replace a MBP keyboard recently?

    Also who has seen the hassle Linus has had to go through to get his iMac Pro repaired. Apple refused to repair and it and said he needed to buy a new one. He ended up getting Louis Rossmann to help repair the computer. Apple does not want the customer repairing devices, they want to be able to force customers to constantly upgrade their computers that really have out of date poor quality hardware.
    *Awaits the political slaughter from fanboys that I must have certainly ignited*
    I miss the iBook days to be honest.

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