iFixit Shares Full 16-Inch MacBook Pro Teardown

[Sabelonada]

So your answer then, if a single component breaks on an otherwise perfectly working object older than 3 years, is to throw the entire object in the bin? Would you have the same attitude about your car? Imagine if car companies started making cars that lacked repairability just like Apple's latest laptops? There would be, no surprise, a whole lot of "whining" like there is on this forum.

Tesla...

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

If you think replacing a Top Case w/ Keyboard & Battery is "extreme surgery", then you shouldn't be touching any computer to repair it.

LOL! Sorry dude. Reread my post.
Replacing the battery is indeed "extreme surgery", when not swapping, but reusing all the other components.

Reading comprehension has been lost to you.

Do not take my word, get educated:

MacBook Pro 15" Retina Display Mid 2015 Battery Replacement

Use this guide to safely remove the glued-in battery from your MacBook Pro with the help of an iFixit battery replacement kit. The adhesive remover...

www.ifixit.com

iFixIt Scorecard:
Difficulty: Difficult
Steps: 74
Time Required: 2 - 3 hours (if skilled)

 

[Sabelonada]

No, Apple does not overproduce to lower prices, and does not want ANY of their genuine product landing in local stores, where it undercuts their own price.

The owner of the factory is stealing from Apple, plain and simple, piggybacking off Apple’s high volume production to get inexpensive parts to sell for their own benefit—profiting at Apple’s expense. Whether Apple is charging twice or ten times as much as you think they should has zero relevance.

In the US (and many other countries, I’d guess) this is a felony crime and those perpetrating such a scheme would spend many years in prison if they are caught.

How is the factory, the maker of the product, stealing from Apple, the customer, when the factory over produces? It is the factory's time and resources going into the manufacturing. If Apple wants exclusivity to the time and resources, it should buy them.

 

[TonyTech]

Considering the weight of this thing, it would've made no difference if Apple made the parts removable with good old screws.

And in return you'd get a highly repairable laptop that you could potentially keep forever.

That is exactly what they don't want you to do...They want people to buy a new computer every few years.

 

[Sabelonada]

Still have a Dell E6430 for admin purposes. I've got a repurposed headless Shuttle XPC at home for serving. So, no the problem isn't the use as much as the choice for current owners or future owners to repair to extend longevity. I can repair a Dell XPS which is similar in design much easier than the MBP. I can repair/replace the hardware in the newer MBP product line: it's just a brick though if it involves the logic board or T2 controller because it requires proprietary software/hardware which no owner or unauthorized third-party has access to. I've not actually replaced the batteries in the newer line but if they're anything like the iPhones, then it will show a failure or no information from the battery controller for new authentic Apple batteries. You'll be required to take it to Apple for them to software pair the battery controller which will cost you more money. So, they're not designing or locking down their software for security as much as it's used for a deterrence.

Update: Here's Dell's XPS 13 teardown which doesn't differ that much from the dimensions of MBP. Repair score 7 out of 10.
iFixit Dell XPS 13 Teardown

That's an ancient XPS 13, I am skeptical the newer ones are as repairable.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Guys, the Apple of old no longer exists. To expect Tim Cook's Apple to build them like they used to is an exercise in futility.

Apple has successfully set up a system where THEY control YOUR hardware, so they can make money off of ANY hardware-related issue or shortcoming.

You want more RAM? Pay US. More storage? Pay US. You want to not have to pay a LOT more when your keyboard or battery fails? You insure it through US. You want to restore functionality you had in a previous model? Pay US for a dongle. You want to keep a machine running after the warranty period expires? Pay US a LOT. Don't want to do that? Pay US for a new machine.

Tim Cook has brilliantly set Apple up this way: to cut costs by removing, simplifying and/or gluing things together, and to monetize what they remove.

Is using macOS worth all this to you?

THAT is the question each of us must ask ourselves in the Tim Apple era.

 

[CHA05 R31GN5]

That's an ancient XPS 13, I am skeptical the newer ones are as repairable.

Your skepticism is refuted with the tear down which I provided in the link of this post you replied. The newer '18 is no different. Your skepticism has now been downgraded to stupidity. Congratulations, because I start off with giving everyone credit of being extremely intelligent. Goes to show someone is always out to prove you wrong.

 

[Sabelonada]

Times are always changing. The time of the post-buy configurable computer is dead. Difficult to accept? Yes, because we have been spoiled by that. Now I invite you all to another way of thinking...

You buy a car with an engine and some specs. Do you ever consider upgrading anything or buy a new one?
You buy a fridge. Do you consider upgrading anything or buy a new one?

It makes sense? You have to equate your needs and what the market offers to decide the best configuration restricted by your budget (whatever that is). Why a computer must be different?

"you're thinking it wrong" 🤣. Think about how such an expensive equipment only has one year warranty. It should have standard at least three. That is a good case.

My 2c.

The car analogy is rubbish.
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Your skepticism is refuted with the tear down which I provided in the link of this post you replied. The newer '18 is no different. Your skepticism has now been downgraded to stupidity. Congratulations, because I start off with giving everyone credit of being extremely intelligent. Goes to show someone is always out to prove you wrong.

I wasn't aware they still allowed the SSD to be upgraded on the XPS 13. I am personally hoping the 16x10 available in the new XPS 13 2 in 1 is adopted across the XPS line up. Then it will be better in most ways than the MacBook Pro.

 

[PickUrPoison]

How is the factory, the maker of the product, stealing from Apple, the customer, when the factory over produces? It is the factory's time and resources going into the manufacturing. If Apple wants exclusivity to the time and resources, it should buy them.

The factory is contracted to make Apple’s part for Apple, not for themselves. They have no right (it would no doubt be expressly forbidden contractually) to produce additional units of a design, which doesn’t belong to them, for the factory owner’s benefit. It’s a huge conflict of interest.

They’re effectively going into business—head to head against their own customer no less—by undercutting them in the marketplace, thus deriving profits that should rightfully go to Apple, but aren’t.

Apple loses a sale for every unit the factory sells on the side. The factory owner is happy, at least until Apple finds out and cancels the contract. In the meantime, Apple is having money picked out of their pocket, since every sale the factory makes is a sale Apple doesn’t.

 

[CHA05 R31GN5]

The factory is contracted to make Apple’s part for Apple, not for themselves. They have no right (it would no doubt be expressly forbidden contractually) to produce additional units of a design, which doesn’t belong to them, for the factory owner’s benefit. It’s a huge conflict of interest.

They’re effectively going into business—head to head against their own customer no less—by undercutting them in the marketplace, thus deriving profits that should rightfully go to Apple, but aren’t.

Apple loses a sale for every unit the factory sells on the side. The factory owner is happy, at least until Apple finds out and cancels the contract. In the meantime, Apple is having money picked out of their pocket, since every sale the factory makes is a sale Apple doesn’t.

Yeah, because Chinese companies are never going to risk damaging their customer relationships with American companies. It's just not worth the risk of them making more profits because they value the customer, Apple, who could easily move operations from a company that relies on them for the majority of their production. Apple outsources certain components amongst different vendors for displays, memory, storage, SoC, CPU, etc. But to bring all of these components together; no one else is set up with the tooling for fabricating boards with all of these components at very high volumes for Apple. Apple likes to tout that they don't rely on one vendor. But, they do with the assembly of the entire product from Foxconn for their mobile line and Quanta (Taiwan but largely governed by China) for the desktop. All of those components are just neat looking and useless without the logic boards and assembly to connect them.
However, they'd never do that over profitability. LOL.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Yeah, because Chinese companies are never going to risk damaging their customer relationships with American companies. It's just not worth the risk of them making more profits because they value the customer, Apple, who could easily move operations from a company that relies on them for the majority of their production. Apple outsources certain components amongst different vendors for displays, memory, storage, SoC, CPU, etc. But to bring all of these components together; no one else is set up with the tooling for fabricating boards with all of these components at very high volumes for Apple. Apple likes to tout that they don't rely on one vendor. But, they do with the assembly of the entire product from Foxconn for their mobile line and Quanta (Taiwan but largely governed by China) for the desktop. All of those components are just neat looking and useless without the logic boards and assembly to connect them.
However, they'd never do that over profitability. LOL.

I honestly have no idea what your point is or how it relates to anything I said! I don’t know if you’re agreeing or disagreeing, but ok

 

[Zdigital2015]

Flying Dutchman dude.
Are you sure? I say you are posting an assertion based on price (or cost of goods to Apple).

My take is that replacing a 16-in MBP battery demands, at least relative to Genius "repair skills" and "bench time", swapping the complete upper case, together with the glued battery, (riveted) keyboard and speakers. Possibly only saving the touchpad, but only on the 16-in.

How do I know? Because I have done one such battery upgrade on a prior-generation mid-2015 MBPr, and it is major, difficult surgery. (There is little difference in layout between the prior-generation and the 16-in MBPr)

There is no way that Apple corporate would allow such extreme surgery on a customer's MBP on the reduced confines of their "clean room" backroom, with the uncertain micro-skills of the so-called Geniuses.

I do not know about the 2016-2019 models, but when I had to do my lease return in February, I had a maxed 2015 with a bloated battery and they did that in-house, although they had to wait a couple of days for parts to arrive. It looked flawless when it was returned to me, and I had to check it over thoroughly before sending it back to the leasing company to avoid being charged for excessive wear and tear. Just sayin...

 

[Sabelonada]

The factory is contracted to make Apple’s part for Apple, not for themselves. They have no right (it would no doubt be expressly forbidden contractually) to produce additional units of a design, which doesn’t belong to them, for the factory owner’s benefit. It’s a huge conflict of interest.

They’re effectively going into business—head to head against their own customer no less—by undercutting them in the marketplace, thus deriving profits that should rightfully go to Apple, but aren’t.

Apple loses a sale for every unit the factory sells on the side. The factory owner is happy, at least until Apple finds out and cancels the contract. In the meantime, Apple is having money picked out of their pocket, since every sale the factory makes is a sale Apple doesn’t.

Given the most likely proprietary design of Apple's products, this makes sense. They are pirating the design.

 

[Zdigital2015]

The car analogy is rubbish.
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I wasn't aware they still allowed the SSD to be upgraded on the XPS 13. I am personally hoping the 16x10 available in the new XPS 13 2 in 1 is adopted across the XPS line up. Then it will be better in most ways than the MacBook Pro.

For the XPS13 2-In-1 that was recently released (2019, Ice Lake), both the DRAM and the SSD are permanently soldered according to Anandtech and PC World.

Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15092/the-dell-xps-13-7390-2in1-review-the-ice-lake-cometh
Source: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3446046/dell-xps-13-2-in-1-7390-review.html

That being said, this is definitely on my short list should I decide that I need Windows 10 bad enough to justify more than Boot Camp or a Virtual Machine via Parallels or VMware Fusion.

Oddly enough, this has even less ports than a 13" MacBook Pro; just two Thunderbolt 3 ports and a miniSD Card slot. Low travel keyboard, 16:10 screen...this is one to watch, for sure.

 

[Sabelonada]

For the XPS13 2-In-1 that was recently released (2019, Ice Lake), both the DRAM and the SSD are permanently soldered according to Anandtech and PC World.

Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15092/the-dell-xps-13-7390-2in1-review-the-ice-lake-cometh
Source: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3446046/dell-xps-13-2-in-1-7390-review.html

That being said, this is definitely on my short list should I decide that I need Windows 10 bad enough to justify more than Boot Camp or a Virtual Machine via Parallels or VMware Fusion.

Oddly enough, this has even less ports than a 13" MacBook Pro; just two Thunderbolt 3 ports and a miniSD Card slot. Low travel keyboard, 16:10 screen...this is one to watch, for sure.

I just read about that machine and it's rather nice if still soldered down. I am really fond of the fact it switched to a 16x10 screen layout, 16x9 is pretty awful for anything other than watching videos. I am hoping the 16x10 goes to the rest of the XPS line.

Does the CPU offer more than two TB3 ports? I was under the impression that Intel was building TB3 into some future CPUs. I can't recall when this was supposed to or did happen. I also thought that the controllers only offered 2 TB3 ports. Finding this information is less than easy and you'd think Intel would really want the customer to know.

I think the 2 in 1 may not quite be aimed at the MacBook Pro. I think the XPS 13 clamshell is that product. It has 2 TB3 ports as well as a USB C 3.1 port, and a MicroSD slot.

 

[v3rlon]

So how many recalls and out-of-warranty replacement programs have Apple had so far?..

So now you complain that they repair the parts that are actually bad? Look, there will always be issues in mass produced items. Apple addresses them. Would you prefer they NOT have replace/recall programs and just let you live with it?

The only problem with that argument is that the CPU that Apple are using supports 128GB addressible RAM *now,* yet Apple charge GBP500 more for 64GB than it would cost me to buy 2x32GB 2666V SoDIMMs retail, and offer no 128GB option...

I didn't say CPU. I said "CHIPSET." There are more limitations than just the CPU. And a true 64 bit memory space would address 16 exabytes (that a lot by today's standards) or RAM. And 5 years from now, 128GB might not be enough for you either, so the same problem exists.

If you want to stay at the bleeding edge, you can't do it by upgrading ANY of today's laptops in the way a typical consumer or even a mid level enthusiast would.

Even laptops with upgradeable video cards only managed a couple of generations (i.e. 18 months). Look at how long Intel keeps a socket, even in their desktops, for the highest end CPUs. AMD is better about it, but you would complain about that, too.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I just read about that machine and it's rather nice if still soldered down. I am really fond of the fact it switched to a 16x10 screen layout, 16x9 is pretty awful for anything other than watching videos. I am hoping the 16x10 goes to the rest of the XPS line.

Does the CPU offer more than two TB3 ports? I was under the impression that Intel was building TB3 into some future CPUs. I can't recall when this was supposed to or did happen. I also thought that the controllers only offered 2 TB3 ports. Finding this information is less than easy and you'd think Intel would really want the customer to know.

I think the 2 in 1 may not quite be aimed at the MacBook Pro. I think the XPS 13 clamshell is that product. It has 2 TB3 ports as well as a USB C 3.1 port, and a MicroSD slot.

16:9 in a laptop has alway put me off...dealt with it on my Surface RT and it is just awkward in portrait mode.

Intel does a horrible job of showcasing the nuts and bolts for most of their CPU releases in the ARK (of all places). You have to dig into the home page and the pressroom releases to glean additional information and even then it can be sparse or slow going to track down definitive information.

Here is an overview of Ice Lake-U that I think gives most of the nitty gritty or as much as Intel is going to give - https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...re/10th-gen-core-mobile-processors-brief.html

Quick answer is up to 3 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports of the CPU; you have to scroll down 3/4 of the way to find the diagram. Good luck!

 

[CHA05 R31GN5]

I honestly have no idea what your point is or how it relates to anything I said! I don’t know if you’re agreeing or disagreeing, but ok

It's partial agreement/disagreement. So, there's understanding of some confusion. But, I like your optimism about complete contractual adherence and full ethical compliance with those agreements. It's just that it's not realistic.

 

[neuropsychguy]

Apple needs to dispense with the "Pro" nomenclature if they're going to continue to solder critical components to the logic board and make it more difficult to repair with glue and rivets.

Pro is not the same thing as tinkerer or geek or nerd; it can be but there's a much broader world out there than those of us who like to upgrade computers. Most people just want a computer to work without having to mess with anything. Would it be great to have the computer fully modular? Yes.

I switched to a Dell after years of Macs in part because of cost savings and in part because I could upgrade components myself but that switch also comes with significant limitations. Had this new MacBook Pro been around at the time, I wouldn't have switched (in part because of this terrible keyboard on the Dell and all the other firmware issues Dell has never quite figured out).

 

[CHA05 R31GN5]

Pro is not the same thing as tinkerer or geek or nerd; it can be but there's a much broader world out there than those of us who like to upgrade computers. Most people just want a computer to work without having to mess with anything. Would it be great to have the computer fully modular? Yes.

I switched to a Dell after years of Macs in part because of cost savings and in part because I could upgrade components myself but that switch also comes with significant limitations. Had this new MacBook Pro been around at the time, I wouldn't have switched (in part because of this terrible keyboard on the Dell and all the other firmware issues Dell has never quite figured out).

Which Dell model?

 

[Zdigital2015]

So now you complain that they repair the parts that are actually bad? Look, there will always be issues in mass produced items. Apple addresses them. Would you prefer they NOT have replace/recall programs and just let you live with it?




I didn't say CPU. I said "CHIPSET." There are more limitations than just the CPU. And a true 64 bit memory space would address 16 exabytes (that a lot by today's standards) or RAM. And 5 years from now, 128GB might not be enough for you either, so the same problem exists.

If you want to stay at the bleeding edge, you can't do it by upgrading ANY of today's laptops in the way a typical consumer or even a mid level enthusiast would.

Even laptops with upgradeable video cards only managed a couple of generations (i.e. 18 months). Look at how long Intel keeps a socket, even in their desktops, for the highest end CPUs. AMD is better about it, but you would complain about that, too.

The best course of action would be to disengage. He's going to talk in circles and try to convince you that you are the crazy one. This would be incorrect.

 

[mikethemartian]

So you're impressed that someone damaged a part, then replaced it at their own expense?..

That was the exact same thought I had reading that post. I thought maybe I was misreading it.
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irrelevant, since a refurbished would be just like a new one.
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So then you wouldn’t have a problem paying full price for an Apple product made from refurbished parts? Since they are just like brand new.

 

[PickUrPoison]

It's partial agreement/disagreement. So, there's understanding of some confusion. But, I like your optimism about complete contractual adherence and full ethical compliance with those agreements. It's just that it's not realistic.

Gotcha. Well I was responding to OP who initially didn’t think there was anything wrong with selling product out of the back door 😬

But yeah it’s hard to stop, which is how this topic came up in the first place. A poster was very upset that Apple was starting to pair batteries to iPhones at manufacture and at repair time, and that iOS was detecting and flagging unknown batteries. That’s the type of security measure designed to thwart grey market and counterfeit product.

 

[x-evil-x]

Well i really do not care because I have already used over half of the life of the machine so now i just keep it going and replace it with a faster, better screen, more memory, more storage, better WiFi and other new technology that this one does not have. It dies it dies, everything dies at some point, TV, washing machines, dish washers, microwave ovens. In 6 years We will be at OS 10.20 do you even think 16in MacBook Pro will be even reliant at that time. We will be on a Intel generation 16 with like 64 cores on the processor and a AMD video at 3 nanometers with 32gigs of DDR9

I know plenty of people still using computers from 2010-2012 and they aren't half of what computers are today. So id hope a modern Mac could live 6 years easily yes.

 

[LeeW]

Of course, if you're already a wasteful person, don't care about the environment, nor future generations other than just what appeases you while you're alive, then I'm sure you are absolutely fine with these unnecessary engineering designs.

I had no idea you knew me so well. All the Millenials say my generation is responsible for everything that is wrong with their lives and the world so a bit late to change my ways 47 years in.

I am just glad you will never buy an Apple product to demonstrate how strongly you feel. You don't right?