Think I may have missed this somewhere, but did they mention whether PCIe 4 drives are used?
Any disk speed tests?
Any disk speed tests?
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iFixit Shares Full 16-Inch MacBook Pro Teardown
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Shoot, i have not been on this message thread, oh yea, enjoying my new Macbook Pro 16in with 32gb of ram, 2TB of storage with the i9 connected to a razer core x with my older Vega 64 card on my 42in LG 4K monitor 
It is creating a disposable electronic culture, however Apple does have a good recycling program in place. It is a problem Apple created by designing non-user replaceable parts and then solving a problem it created and patting itself for being environmentally conscience with action. Had the part been user replaceable people would either just drop off the battery at a local electronic recycling shop and be done with it. Now it all depends what the municipality and its recycling programs do, there is no way to be certain without some investigation.
I remember one of my first purchased a 14" PowerBook G3 it had a replaceable ODD, Battery, RAM, HDD and pretty much anything else one could think about. Was it a little bulky and heavy yes, however laptops at that time usually were and that PowerBook was actually lighter compared to many of the competitors. My MacBook/Air/Pro since then have been lighter and thinner however more restrictive on what can be user replaced or upgraded. It seems Apple figured out that leaving these things to the users or other 3rd party vendors put them in a position that they overpriced upgrade options were not being purchased by most users who went elsewhere, so by creating a convenient excuse of thinner, lighter, more battery life for a closed hardware design were seen as a trade off for amazing design and quality when compared to its competitors. The problem is that most of those competitors have either caught up of exceeded what Apple was good at while offering it at a fraction of the price with user upgradability and repairability.
A small minority just don't give a hoot and install macOS (something people like) and install it on hardware other than Apple that is more powerful and cost effective. The sad part is if Apple was actually honest with itself and listened to its customers it would not be in this situation. At least with the inclusion of the Magic KB, physical ESC key, etc they seem to be taking some steps in the right direction slowly.
Don't take words out of context, my reply was to: "Apple needs to EMPHASIZE the "Pro" nomenclature if they're going to continue to solder critical components to the logic board and make it more RELIABLE and LESS LIKELY TO NEED repair... " Patently, when you need to issue mass recalls and post-warranty repair, your quality engineering ain't good enough to have things soldered down for good!
"CHIPSET" has nothing to do with memory addressing---the CPUs have had memory controller a long time ago, it's probably been a decade or more since RAM doesn't d-tour via the chipset! 🤣
There has been little to no innovation in the CPU sphere save for getting smaller and cooler (there's nothing that a Haswell Xeon can't do in the real world for 99.9999% of users that a modern "Xeon" can, for example), but I do want to be able to max out RAM, and not have to sell both kidneys for it, because I know I can; yet I can't do that with Apple. Nor can I upgrade to a better SSD down the line.
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Correct, but that still generates heat that still has to go somewhere! Ditto for SSD chips...
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"I won't touch" conveys aversion, call it what you like, but the meaning doesn't change.
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Because people have other things to do!.. Your TGP refers to the chip itself, I was referring to the entirety of GPU electornics, like one would in the real card. One would've thought that my subsequent reply to someone else made it abundantly clear and negated the necessity to reply to you, but hey, if you want attention, here it is!
But your mention of the chip's "TGP" brings up another interesting engineering question: if the chip requires 50W at peak, that leaves, how much, 46W spare at the power adapter end, that's 46W to power TB3 chipset that delivers the power, the CPU, the 3K backlit display, RAM, SSD, somehow you're going to be getting a power deficit there, methinks... and that's assuming you can deliver 50W from the power adaper end to the GPU chipset with no loss between 🤔 🤣
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Having a good recycling program DOES NOT justify Apple for creating non upgradable- Disposable applianced that generate more trash.
It is like, hey, we cut all these trees to create paper, but we are planting new ones... rather than going digital. You are still cutting trees...
I still use an early 2008 MBP as a secondary computer if I just need to do regular consumer user level stuff like searching the web, MS Office, email. I’d love to buy a newer MBP to do some engineering simulations on the go but the lineup of the past few years isn’t ideal for those purposes.
lol....reading a figurative statement in a literal sense does change the meaning. Literally.
Brilliantly put. Sadly that is the new Apple moto. Masters of the arrogant design. We do not give a Sh#$ about the users.
Still some complaint work since at least, after 3 long years of nonsense they finally changed the keyboard to the old design...
That shows how much Apple cares about innovating and the user and what their priorities...
That is not the point.
We do not have to buy everything Apple puts out, especially if the model are really badly designed.
If a computer model is successful, then you will see that in the sales and the reviews.
You can see that in the Apple Watch growing double digits.
Did the Trashcan Mac Pro sell well and have good reviews, NO
Did the MacBook Pro 2016+ sell well and have good reviews, NO
You have the same right to buy crappy computer models, as the same right we have to complain about them. It does not get more complicated than that...
The sad part is it took Arrogant Apple over 6 years (Mac Pro) and 3 years for the Macbook to fix it.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
It certainly seems that way.
I think that as time goes on we'll all get used to this new paradigm, just like the headphone jack debate.
It's us older Apple users, those who remember when the iMac was serviceable, when Steve Jobs took great pride in demonstrating how all the Powermac components were on the door of the machine, when even the maligned but beautiful Cube's guts slid out in the coolest fashion... WE are the ones who will have the most trouble with Tim's Apple.
We're the ones who witnessed how Apple's enthusiast-friendly designs slowly eroded into sealed, disposable boxes. How ease-of-repairability and user configurability that was once touted as a FEATURE is now omitted ENTIRELY.
It was those things that made Macs a good value; you were able to keep the machine running long after Apple's so-called "obsolecence" so as to amortize the high up-front cost.
And the macOS has ALWAYS been consumer-friendly. Even though I knew I could I rarely popped my Mac open, because I didn't need to, like most consumers that don't want to. Machines were reliable. And when I did have to pop the hood, Apple made sure it was absolutely EASY to get to the (2 or 3 sensible) components like RAM and HDD.
But once the Apple Store came to be, that was the beginning of the end. I think Steve Jobs was one of us, because it wasn't until he died that the lockdown gained momentum. He kept the soldered Air separate from the MBPs. But as soon as he died, Tim's first move was to start soldering things down across the board, starting with the Retina MBP in 2012.
From there it's been control, delete, and alt(ernative income via solder, dongles, and planned obsolescence).
They even got caught with the iPhone!! But, those killer apps (iMessage on iOS and macOS) keep bringing people back like crack, and Tim is WELL AWARE of it. He's the dealer, after all.
Wow, lucky me!
I have been having problems with my 2017 15-inch MacBook Pro, so they just replaced it with a 2019 16-inch!
I have been having problems with my 2017 15-inch MacBook Pro, so they just replaced it with a 2019 16-inch!
To further your point, thanks to the upgrade-ability of the mid-2010 Macbook Pros, my MBP is still my primary computer NINE YEARS LATER. To think I would have had to have shelled out $1,700 for a new, similarly specced (512GB SSD; current pricing) Macbook instead of the ~$200 in upgrades I've made is absolutely asinine.
I’m 100% positive that Apple did engage with communities of pro users and realised the issues with the trash can years ago but it takes time to r&d, design and bring to market. They admitted they designed themselves into a corner with the trash can and had to go back to the drawing board.
but people on here who have been hanging onto their 2010 MacBook Pro in hope of a return to a more modular design for the mackbook pro aren’t the kind of customer Apple are building computers for anymore. Apple did listen to customers when the designed light and slimmer computers. Yes they took it a bit to far with the butterfly keyboard and have now retreated a little from that in favour of performance. However they aren’t going to walk away from highly portable, powerful computers which professionals have asked for because some other pros and a number hobbyists want modifiable computers. It’s just too small a market to be profitable when this group is essentially saying they want to buy the base model and tinker with it for 6-10 years in steady of buying a new matching every 4-5 years.
I’m not saying Apple have made no errors along the way but they simply do not make computers for people who want to tinker with the various parts over a decade before they buy a new computer. There is seven years of evidence to suggest this yet people are complaining about user serviceable ram as if Apple just took it away. I appreciate the disappointment but it’s time to move on because Apple have made their position clear.
Which is fine (ignoring the consumer hostile nature for a moment) if you're not already breaking the bank to get one of these in the first place.
But users should express their disappointment. Ive stepped back, maybe Tim leaves the company sooner or later and maybe someday someone at Apple starts to think different.
I actually did and it wasn't a Mac with a defective keyboard from launch. Nice gatekeeping by the way.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
The problem is that Apple didn't engage with customers BEFORE releasing the trashcan and EOL'ing the grater. That created animosity within the Pro AND hobbyist community resulting in migrations away from the platform, or significant grumbling at least.
So this year they're backpedaling like crazy, but not before setting up a culture of disposability and a mechanism for further monetization first.
Tim Cook has been called brilliant by many, and I see it now. He's amazing at making money. But clearly, the products have suffered over the years, when compared to their legacy. And they've suffered on issues that did not exist prior to his tenure, because Apple themselves made it easy to repair and upgrade back then. Those new to Apple don't know what Apple used to be, so they dismiss easily how much it has changed for the worse. Someone born deaf can function as well as someone who lost their hearing, but they don't feel the same way about it.
For my part, I used to replace my multiple Macs upon a new model release. That's how much of a diehard I was. But this came to a grinding halt in 2012, and I'm STILL using that hardware.
So in the end this has NOTHING to do with having highly portable, powerful computers which professionals have asked for and instead has EVERYTHING to do with profitability, as you pointed out.
Steve was a product guy, Tim's a profit guy. Simple.
All that said, the complaining might be moot. Apple backpedals only when the numbers reflect it, and that takes time. It'll be 4 years total, if not longer, until the stupid-a** keyboard issues are fixed accross the board. This is Apple doing what they do best, giving us just enough of what we want to keep something in the back pocket for next year so that people don't just throw their hands up. "Keep them wanting more", as it were.
So the question is who actually drove the change? The people who complained AND left, or the people who complained but kept using Apple products?
I think it's both, but more the former than the latter.
I would have thought whatever your generation you align yourself with that most people have come to know the basic meaning of "if" followed by perhaps it applies to you and perhaps it doesn't. So, obviously you know how shallow and narrow-minded you are that this "if" statement must have hit you hard and you couldn't hold it in anymore. Squealed before anyone poked you.