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I’m willing to spend an extra $120-150 on the tele lens, 6 GB of RAM (instead of 4GB), and LIDAR focusing, and ability to shoot and edit ProRAW files. So yes, mostly photography benefits. The difference in screen brightness is another, but not a dealbreaker.

It’s only $120 though, and the presence of the tele lens and 6 GB of RAM is enough.

That, and the stainless steel models are prettier.
 
if you give me a choice between more waterproof and easier to fix, I'll take the waterproofing any day of the week.
Which rationally makes no sense because most repairs are due to dropping the phone on a hard surface and not water damage. Easier and cheaper repairs makes a lot more economical sense in the long run than water resistance.
 
I went with the S20 Ultra with 512mb of storage expandable to 1 Terabyte and 12GB of RAM

Disappointed in the 12 Pro
Camera is equal not better than the 11 Pro
Smaller battery than the 11 Pro
5G not that fast

So I went S20 Ultra
Maybe Next year APPLE
keeping my iPhone 8 Plus
I get faster download speeds on the 8 Plus on ATT 5G Evolution than I would on an iPhone 12 Pro true 5G phone
 
I went with the S20 Ultra with 512mb of storage expandable to 1 Terabyte and 12GB of RAM

Disappointed in the 12 Pro
Camera is equal not better than the 11 Pro
Smaller battery than the 11 Pro
5G not that fast

So I went S20 Ultra
Maybe Next year APPLE
keeping my iPhone 8 Plus
I get faster download speeds on the 8 Plus on ATT 5G Evolution than I would on an iPhone 12 Pro true 5G phone

It’s sad that Android is so poorly optimized that the easiest solution is to throw buckets of RAM at it and giant batteries.
 
The odd thing is I thought the reason why the Pro was heavier than the non pro was because the pro having a larger battery. Now that’s not the case. The Pro is a lot heavier than the non pro so what in the world is inside the Pro that makes it so heavy?

I’d also be upset to find that I paid a prem price for a Pro only to find that that battery is the same size as the non pro.
 
Applecare doesn’t last forever, and is the case with iPhone XS that my coverage ended, we are stuck paying the full retail price for a screen repair and it’s not cheap. Luckily i had asurion which does the same thing for a 29 replacement screen.

But after having apple limited coverage warranty, since it’s not applecare, they focus on the issue than fixing every possible issue. I had to make two different appointments for a battery and my camera going out. Apple care + would had given me a new device with rapid replacement.
Good thing I get the new iPhone every year for my wife and I. I don’t have to worry about Apple Care not lasting forever for that particular phone.
 
Remember that Apple is no longer your scrappy underdog bouncing back from the brink. They are a huge company with close to a billion iPhone users, and the scale at which they operate is also their biggest weakness, because the best hardware feature on the market is moot if Apple cannot obtain enough quantities to include it in their products.

From a logistics POV, increased product segmentation, not consolation, seems like the way moving forward.

Thing is, the scrappy underdog bouncing back from the brink had a far more exciting vision, envelope-pushing mentality, and well-rounded products on offer. The whole "stay hungry" thing hasn't aged very well when it comes to Apple products. You can see the overfed complacency at every angle.

And the reason wasn't logistics and scale; it was having a leader like Steve.

I mean, sure, segmentation is fine if you're Samsung, LG, Sony and so forth. For a company like Apple though, it kills a big part of what made their products GREAT.
 
The odd thing is I thought the reason why the Pro was heavier than the non pro was because the pro having a larger battery. Now that’s not the case. The Pro is a lot heavier than the non pro so what in the world is inside the Pro that makes it so heavy?

I’d also be upset to find that I paid a prem price for a Pro only to find that that battery is the same size as the non pro.

Well, that definitely was an odd thing to think. Reviewers (and Apple, IMHO) have done a decent job of describing what the upgrades are to the Pro. While I don't think Apple themselves have ever disclosed the actual battery capacities, they also never said the Pro was going to have a battery vastly different than the non-Pro phone.

As has been discussed in various places, the Pro's stainless steel frame is significantly heavier than the "regular" iPhone's aluminum version.
 
Honestly I can't help but agree. The only viable models one should get are the standard 12, or the 12 Pro Max. 12 for lower price while still having most iPhone 12 Pro capabilities, and the 12 Pro Max for the best of the best in terms of display and camera system.

As a new iPhone 12 Pro owner I have to grudgingly agree. When comparing the 12 and 12 Pro side by side with 128 GB storage, there is very little that justifies the US$120 price difference.
 
Honestly I can't help but agree. The only viable models one should get are the standard 12, or the 12 Pro Max. 12 for lower price while still having most iPhone 12 Pro capabilities, and the 12 Pro Max for the best of the best in terms of display and camera system.
I think for me it will all boil down to "hand feel." I really like the better camera in the 12 Pro Max, but until I hold it in my hand and put in my pants pocket I won't know whether the size is to big for me.
 
The truth of the matter is, Android flagships, have more components, e.g. SD slots, more memory, "bigger" processors [7 nm v 5 nm], more cameras, sometimes with real optical periscope, often a headphone jack [e.g. Mate Pro 40], and yet do this with a smaller body, that weighs less and still manage to fit 60+% bigger batteries in their phones?


The truth of the matter is, Android is a far less efficient system, on phones using far less performative and efficient processors, and therefore in need of bloated batteries.
 
I’m willing to spend an extra $120-150 on the tele lens, 6 GB of RAM (instead of 4GB), and LIDAR focusing, and ability to shoot and edit ProRAW files. So yes, mostly photography benefits. The difference in screen brightness is another, but not a dealbreaker.

It’s only $120 though, and the presence of the tele lens and 6 GB of RAM is enough.

That, and the stainless steel models are prettier.

That's where I am. I don't want the size of the max, but I use the tele photo on my iPhone X all the time. With lidar and expanded night mode (which is huge to me because the biggest drawback I experience with phone cameras is low light), I'd think about about that $120 every time I missed it. If I'm spending that much money, I'll spend the extra hundred for these features. I can see where some would say the 12 pro is a waste. If they can say that; it's probably true.
 
making repairs complicated makes it harder for ifixit to stay in business (which they noted the waterproofing point with an orange minus sign next to the final score)

a phone is Not a submarine. The further waterproofing is just apples way to say - no repair wanted! All your aggression, is kinda strange - for hard use there are additional cases.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: t1meless1nf1n1t
They made a purely objective statement after doing their disassembly. YOU assigned "evil" to it.
click on the live stream and watch what they said. they even said they were biased and they weren’t “sorry” about it. what they’re speaking of doesn’t not come from a purely objective source.

please do some research before speaking lies.
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a phone is Not a submarine. The further waterproofing is just apples way to say - no repair wanted! All your aggression, is kinda strange - for hard use there are additional cases.
i dont know what you’re trying to say there.
 
They always complain about proprietary screws, yet they have no issues opening it.

Do you have any idea why they wouldn’t have any issues opening the phone? ifixit has all the necessary tools to do so, of course they wouldn’t have an issue opening it Being they specifically breakdown and repair phones, I think that’s kind of obvious, don’t you think? The reason they complain about proprietary screws, is they don’t share the same Phillips screws that Samsung phones use that you can basically break down the entire phone with one tool, where as the iPhone requires multiple drivers, a tri-point screwdriver, etc. most consumers could break down a Samsung phone, as with an iPhone, it would be nearly impossible without multiple tools.
 
Ifixit sounds like a remora, complaining that the shark it’s feeding off of didn’t grab a juicy enough seal.
 
Which rationally makes no sense because most repairs are due to dropping the phone on a hard surface and not water damage. Easier and cheaper repairs makes a lot more economical sense in the long run than water resistance.
Interestingly, that's not what this survey said when it comes to young adults:


Of damaged phones, 60% of 18-24-year-olds and 51% of 25-34-year-olds reported that it was caused by a toilet drop. Which is to say that at least in the UK, in that survey, in 2018, for younger people, water damage is the most likely cause of breakage. This could be in part because they tend to use heavier cases that protect from hard-surface drops, or because phones have gotten more resistant to hard surface drops, but in any case that toilet damage number drops to zero if the phone is waterproof.

A different survey I found, with little explanation of methodology or source, showed the most common cause of damage being dropped on the ground, but 2 of the top 5 still being water damage (toilets and other water):


Presumably as time goes by, the statistics will get skewed by the fact that iPhones don't break when you drop them in water. Same for some other phones as well. By 2018 the statistics would have already started to be affected by that.

Regardless, you also left out the second sentence of what I said there, which explains my preference not from a statistical standpoint, but from a user standpoint (emphasis added):
I'm a lot more likely to get my phone wet than I am to want to get it repaired by someone other than Apple.
My family, personally, keep iPhones for 3 years, during which they're covered by AppleCare. I don't even ever expect to use a 3rd party repair shop; every co-worker who had a phone repaired at a non-Apple shop either ended up with a screen looked like garbage to me, they ended up taking it to Apple eventually because the repair failed after a few months, or the shop broke more than it fixed.

So if/when I need to get a phone repaired, it's going to be done by Apple. Which means, since I have zero expectation to ever try to repair a phone myself, I really don't personally care how hard it is, since I'm not the one doing it.

This of course doesn't apply to everybody, but I'd say it probably applies to most--statistically, how many iPhone users repair their own phones? I think it's safe to say that the number of people who repair their own phones (or would if it was somewhat easier) is lower than the number who drop them in the toilet, probably by a significant margin. Almost nobody repairs their own desktop computers, either, and that's incredibly easy.

There's also another factor to water resistance versus ease-of-repair: Leaving accidental damage entirely out of the picture, being waterproof provides real-world use benefits. I can take my phone out in the rain and not worry about it, which I would avoid prior to waterproofing. I can use it in the tub without worry. If I really trust the waterproofness, I can do basic underwater photography. I can even rinse it off if it gets dirty.
 
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