iFixit Teardown Suggests 2018 MacBook Pro Keys Feature a Silicone Barrier to Prevent Malfunctions Due to Dust

[az431]

If you agree with Apple, that this silicone barrier is ONLY an attempt at making the keyboard quieter and ONLY makes the keyboard quieter, then maybe you have something.

You may want to re-read the article. Apple has not said anything, and what you attribute to Apple are inferences drawn by third parties. The changes may be to make the keyboard quieter, improve how the keys operate, or both.

What Apple stated is that the keyboard in the 2018 MacBooks is quieter. iFixIt drew the inference that the membrane was a "side effect" of what it thinks is a fix for the alleged defect. Apple has not said what the membrane is for.

 

[charlituna]

So in the end it was really the rumored patented design, essentially a reliability fix disguised as a quieter mechanism.

That’s MRs claim. But they have no proof of that. Or that the keyboard issue is as large as they want to claim, despite Apple claiming otherwise. Just like any other issue that Apple has done one of their “quality programs” over. All we can say for sure is that folks with Apple issues are extremely vocal. So maybe the noise is a lot of folks, maybe it’s not really that many but they are loud.

And we will never know for sure.

 

[newdeal]

well I have had a few keyboards due to warranty issues (some involving keyboard replacement). I had a 2016 MacBook Pro, now I have a 2017. I was hoping it would be ok but the U key has started giving me sporadic issues. My next computer won't be a Mac unless when the one gives out the tech landscape has drastically changed. This is coming from a guy who has only bought Apple products and has bought a ton of them over the last decade

 

[Rogifan]

You may want to re-read the article. Apple has not said anything, and what you attribute to Apple are inferences drawn by third parties. The changes may be to make the keyboard quieter, improve how the keys operate, or both.

What Apple stated is that the keyboard in the 2018 MacBooks is quieter. iFixIt drew the inference that the membrane was a "side effect" of what it thinks is a fix for the alleged defect. Apple has not said what the membrane is for.

And neither iFixit nor anyone else know what was causing the defect.

 

[MoreRumors?]

Non-butterfly keyboards from other manufacturers like Dell, Lenovo, and HP experience the exact same types of issues that require repair as the MBP keyboard. There's nothing unique about sticky keys, non-functional keys, or keyboard replacements in the laptop industry. Apple has said the number of repairs is "small", so perhaps the lawsuits will provide what percentage of the install base that amounts to.

Only Apple knows how many customers have requested repairs and the number will never be disclosed publicly by them. I have read a few comments bashing those who have filed lawsuits making claims about the keyboards. Lawsuits can be a benefit for customers in a way such as telling Apple 1. you cut corners, 2. a part was not thoroughly tested, 3. quality control got laxed, etc. Apple do have the funds to do a thorough R&D before sending its products out to the market. As MBP is their top-line laptops charging at premium prices, I expect to have very little issues and not having to send in for repairs.

 

[PickUrPoison]

A hero for what? Popping off a key and seeing what’s underneath? Good grief.

Ummm, did you miss the eye roll? I was being sarcastic lol

 

[gnipgnop]

Who cares about other manufacturers? Apple is supposed to be the best.
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Apple knows. Apple Insider did access an admittedly small data-set related to repair rates. While this doesn't "prove" anything, it offers compelling evidence to back up the assertion that 2016-17 keyboards are failing at a higher rate and being repaired multiple times, more than earlier keyboards, and earlier in the life cycle.
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If you agree with Apple, that this silicone barrier is ONLY an attempt at making the keyboard quieter and ONLY makes the keyboard quieter, then maybe you have something.

A. The court system cares. Legally, Apple isn't required to be better. They're supposed to be held to the same standard as everyone else. The types of repairs being made to the MBP keyboard aren't unique to the industry or the butterfly design. The question is whether or not they're more susceptible to a degree that would make them deficient vs. the industry.

B. Apple Insider has no breakdown on what those repairs consisted of OR what percentage of repairs were due to customer negligence. That's not all that compelling. The "higher rate of failure" could still be well within industry standards for all they know.

C. Complaints about the feel and sound of the butterfly mechanism keyboards predate the issue regarding repairs. It was the original complaint about the 1st gen butterfly keyboard in the MacBook. That doesn't mean the silicone can't have other benefits too or that Apple (just like any other hardware vendor) can't improve it's designs over time.

 

[mejsric]

If you agree with Apple, that this silicone barrier is ONLY an attempt at making the keyboard quieter and ONLY makes the keyboard quieter, then maybe you have something.

It think it’s actually ment to fix the dust issues but for lawsuits safety, Apple can’t advertise it as fix, instead advertise the side effect of putting barriers which make it quiter.

 

[curtvaughan]

Same here - I really loved the old PowerBook keyboards. It took me about a day to get used to the 2009-2015 keyboards, and about a day to get used to the current keyboards. I have a 2013 mbp at home and a 2017 mbp at work. I vastly prefer the keyboard on the 2017 - it’s faster to type on and typing is more precise, but it is incredibly loud.

That might also be ascribed to the difference between a five year old and a one year old piece of hardware.

 

[newyorksole]

Guys guys guys. The silicone underneath the keys ARE meant to keep debris out. And a side effect is that it makes typing quieter.

The intention for his was to keep debris out, not to make the keys quieter.

 

[curtvaughan]

Agreed. And I'm one. Typing on it now and I like it. And I am a huge mechanical keyboard fan - I've got Steel Series and several other Made in USA mechanical keyboards in my possession. Only difference, I'm not going to tell you what is best for you. Why would I? What works for me may not work for you. Personal preference. It really gets me when people who don't even own the laptop bash on it and say everyone hates the keyboard.

What is even more key to me are the people who DO own the laptop, and who complain. Before I spend $3000 or more on a laptop, I'm a lot more influenced by people experiencing issues than by those who've had no problems. There comes a point when problems tip over from being insignificant and random - the "lemon" factor - to being of serious concern.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

You may want to re-read the article. Apple has not said anything, and what you attribute to Apple are inferences drawn by third parties. The changes may be to make the keyboard quieter, improve how the keys operate, or both.

What Apple stated is that the keyboard in the 2018 MacBooks is quieter. iFixIt drew the inference that the membrane was a "side effect" of what it thinks is a fix for the alleged defect. Apple has not said what the membrane is for.

Dude, you may want to zoom-in on Apple's Patent No. US 2018/0068808.

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?docid=20180068808&SectionNum=1&IDKey=&HomeUrl=http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/
Publication Date: Mar. 8, 2018

...and a gasket coupled to the keys, the gasket fixed between the web and the base, operable to block passage of contaminants into the apertures.​

No inferences required.

 

[curtvaughan]

Apple was once about "for the rest of us". Remember that.

If you do not need/ want/ like/ appreciate them to think for you, the custom building of the Windows world awaits.

https://hackintosh.com/

 

[PickUrPoison]

Guys guys guys. The silicone underneath the keys ARE meant to keep debris out. And a side effect is that it makes typing quieter.

The intention for his was to keep debris out, not to make the keys quieter.

True. Apple filed the patent in Sept 2016 and obviously the research had been going on for quite some time before that.

It’s now been implemented as a result of years of R&D. It often takes years to go from patent to final product ready for large-scale manufacturing.

This is not some panicked, quickie response due to last month’s lawsuit lol.

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?docid=20180068808&SectionNum=1&IDKey=F0B1C5BB130C&HomeUrl=http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526d=PG01%2526p=1%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.html%2526r=1%252

 

[simonmet]

I used to love MacBooks because they had thoughtful features which are now gone.

A) Magsafe - has a useful light on it, easy to attach, has saved multiple MacBooks in my household multiple times.
B) The trackpad.. well the new one isn't terrible but I think the new one is too large to be comfortable
C) The keyboard - they've well and truly ruined that one!
D) Other things like being able to remote control my Mac with the Apple remote, or the battery life indicator... All gone now.

Yes it's definitely lost a lot of character and soul. Just like Apple really.

 

[satchmo]

Hey, not bad. Two birds with one stone.

Actually this does sound like a smart solution (pun intended).
And perhaps can be applied to older MacBook Pros that come in for service.

 

[joshuaad]

What i really wanna know is if the replacement program uses this technique on older builds, i broke one of my keys on a 2017 15” due to it was sticking, and going for a replacement keyboard next week, so ill find out soon enough

I almost guarantee it. Otherwise you’d be going back and back. Time to bring mine in was well. Many faulty keys...

 

[marhk]

The keys of the new 2018 MacBook Pro, which uses a third-generation butterfly keyboard, appear to be cocooned in a "thin, silicone barrier" according to a teardown that's underway over at iFixit.

According to iFixit, the quieter typing Apple has been advertising in the 2018 MacBook Pro models is a side effect of the new membrane, which the site believes is actually an "ingress-proofing measure" to prevent the butterfly keys from seizing up when exposed to dust and other small particulates.

To back up its claim, iFixit points towards a patent for the technology Apple may be using in the third-generation butterfly keyboard, which describes a "guard structure" that keeps direct contaminants away from the movement mechanism.

iFixit does warn, however, that while the silicone barrier is clearly in place, there's no way to definitively prove that it's a reliability fix rather than just a sound damping measure, citing statements from Apple to The Verge that have said the new keyboard design wasn't introduced to "solve [dust] issues." Apple also told The Verge and other sites that the issue in question has only impacted a small number of customers.

iFixit speculates that Apple is avoiding sharing the complete reasoning behind the keyboard redesign because of the class action lawsuits that it's currently facing over faulty 2016/2017 MacBook Pro keyboards. Since Apple unveiled the 2018 MacBook Pro with its third-generation butterfly keyboard, there have been questions about whether specific changes were made to address keyboard failure issues present in 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro models.

Apple has been vague when answering questions about the way the quieter keys were implemented and if those changes also impact durability and reliability, but iFixit's teardown offers hope for customers who have been waiting for Apple to fix the keyboard problems affecting older MacBook Pro models.

Some 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro owners have experienced issues with sticky, unresponsive, or repeating keys, leading to significant public outcry that eventually pushed Apple to launch a free repair program for those machines. As a result of the attention given to the issue, some customers have been wary about purchasing a new MacBook Pro because of possible future problems.

Future failure rates and anecdotal reports may be the only way to determine the true purpose behind the silicone barrier added to the keys, as Apple's marketing materials insist the change has been introduced to allow for a quieter typing experience, addressing an issue that few people seemed to have had with the 2016/2017 keyboard.

Earlier today, TechCrunch shared a video demonstrating the typing sound of the new 2018 MacBook Pro compared to an earlier MacBook Pro model, confirming that it is indeed quieter as Apple says. Multiple hands-on reports have also said there's a noticeable difference between the sound of the new MacBook Pro and older models.

iFixit plans to continue on with its teardown next week and may have more information to share, but given the interest in the third-generation butterfly keyboard, the site didn't want to wait to highlight potential good news.

Article Link: iFixit Teardown Suggests 2018 MacBook Pro Keys Feature a Silicone Barrier to Prevent Malfunctions Due to Dust

 

[BigMcGuire]

What is even more key to me are the people who DO own the laptop, and who complain. Before I spend $3000 or more on a laptop, I'm a lot more influenced by people experiencing issues than by those who've had no problems. There comes a point when problems tip over from being insignificant and random - the "lemon" factor - to being of serious concern.

Oh indeed. First thing I do buying stuff on Amazon is check the negative reviews. That said it has become very popular to complain about Apple on this site, criticizing every move it makes.

Apple, unlike a lot of companies out there, stands behind its product better than most. One reason why I continue to give it my $. The few product failures I’ve had resulted in free replacements the same day.

But what gets me is people in this thread saying everyone hates this laptop and it’s a horrible laptop ... etc. 3.98 million laptop sales in one quarter of 2017 say otherwise.

Then again I’m not being cool and popular for bashing Apple for being soulless and terrible and horrible and completely unusable.

 

[Brian Clifford]

Still I wonder if the silicone will hold up as well as the keyboard on my regularly used nearly 10 year old MacBook.

Hooray! 84 posts in, and you asked the question I thought was a pretty obvious one. It will be interesting to see if the silicone cover holds up well over time? From the few images and videos I've seen so far, none of them really show in detail how the silicone cover is placed around the individual keys. This is an important detail as it is how the silicone cover is secured to withstand constant use that will determine how well it will remain in place without becoming dislodged? I will look forward to ifixit's full tear down video, and as others have already suggested, how the revised keyboards perform over time?

 

[macpodman]

Apple must be losing a lot of goodwill and sales by constantly denying any problems with their hardware. It just makes them look like charlatans. Own up to the problems, fix them for free and bask in the good publicity generated.

 

[marhk]

After viewing the iFixit picture it appears that the silicone shield is open at the top. I wonder what happens if a crumb gets into the interior of the shield. I suspect that it would be impossible to vac or blow out. I have already had one replaced keyboard on a 2017 MBP. At these prices I will think twice about buying again.

 

[PickUrPoison]

It isn't.

I've had one for over a year now. I'm typing this post on it. I still wish a lifetime of splinters, UPS delivery delays, drizzle and the last book in their beloved novel series to never be released on everyone responsible for it.

it's absolutely horrible to type on. Painful. It needs to be abandoned ASAP. It was a terrible idea and it can't be fixed.

But the OP has the opposite opinion. Out of the 25+ million laptops Apple has sold, how many think the keyboard is worse vs better?

Apple’s Mac sales certainly haven’t been affected, their sales have held steady since 2012, while PC sales have fallen significantly.

 

[macintoshmac]

https://hackintosh.com/

Aye! My first experience of Mac OS X was on my own custom built Hack! So much so that I became a contributing member of Insanely Mac.
[doublepost=1531575839][/doublepost]

Apple must be losing a lot of goodwill and sales by constantly denying any problems with their hardware. It just makes them look like charlatans. Own up to the problems, fix them for free and bask in the good publicity generated.

You overestimate the mindset of the whiner.
[doublepost=1531576093][/doublepost]

Hooray! 84 posts in, and you asked the question I thought was a pretty obvious one. It will be interesting to see if the silicone cover holds up well over time? From the few images and videos I've seen so far, none of them really show in detail how the silicone cover is placed around the individual keys. This is an important detail as it is how the silicone cover is secured to withstand constant use that will determine how well it will remain in place without becoming dislodged? I will look forward to ifixit's full tear down video, and as others have already suggested, how the revised keyboards perform over time?

No one asked about the longevity of the membranes used in membrane-based keyboard. I should think the silicone will last for as long as you will respectably use the laptop. 3 years can be covered by AppleCare, and if they screw it up again, there will be a replacement program again.

I bought my 2016 when it came out in November. In 2018 they insure it for up to 4 years since purchase, meaning November 2020 in my case. So, 4 years out of a reasonable average of 5 are covered.

Nothing to worry.

 

[2ndgenirish]

Can this keyboard fit on older MBPs? Does Apple want to sell keyboards or new MBPs?