iFixit Teardown Suggests 2018 MacBook Pro Keys Feature a Silicone Barrier to Prevent Malfunctions Due to Dust

[smirking]

Yes, you are right, they replace few things, but in recent memory, the 2011 graphics fiasco is the one where faulty was replaced with exact time bomb.

The thing is that we don't know what the other options they were considering were like. It's entirely possible that the best possible outcome they could see was to give you a time bomb that may or may not go off vs options that were sure to go off. People assume that once a problem is known, Apple surely knows exactly how to fix it and the only reason why they wouldn't fix it is because they're scared it'll hurt their profits.

I find that implausible. It's far more likely they either don't have the answer and are just trying to buy time or the other options that are available are even worse than the option everyone is angry about.

They also don't want to deploy any solutions that might have unknown risks. If someone comes up with a brilliant idea that is guaranteed to fix the keyboards, but is untested otherwise, they're probably not going to rush to roll it out. They have no idea what else it might do besides fixing the keyboard. The last thing they want is to discover that this brilliant fix did indeed cure the keyboard issues, but created other issues that eventually would lead to the graphics card shorting out.

 

[grad]

Apple was once about "for the rest of us". Remember that.

If you do not need/ want/ like/ appreciate them to think for you, the custom building of the Windows world awaits.

No thanks. I have been with DIY hackintosh from the start. That doesn't mean I don't have genuine Macs as well among tens of other systems/platforms. I just don't do Windows.

 

[macintoshmac]

The thing is that we don't know what the other options they were considering were like. It's entirely possible that the best possible outcome they could see was to give you a time bomb that may or may not go off vs options that were sure to go off. People assume that once a problem is known, Apple surely knows exactly how to fix it and the only reason why they wouldn't fix it is because they're scared it'll hurt their profits.

I find that implausible. It's far more likely they either don't have the answer and are just trying to buy time or the other options that are available are even worse than the option everyone is angry about.

They also don't want to deploy any solutions that might have unknown risks. If someone comes up with a brilliant idea that is guaranteed to fix the keyboards, but is untested otherwise, they're probably not going to rush to roll it out. They have no idea what else it might do besides fixing the keyboard. The last thing they want is to discover that this brilliant fix did indeed cure the keyboard issues, but created other issues that eventually would lead to the graphics card shorting out.

Completely agree. But hey, bashing them seems to be pretty hip here, ain't it?
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No thanks. I have been with DIY hackintosh from the start. That doesn't mean I don't have genuine Macs as well among tens of other systems/platforms. I just don't do Windows.

My first Mac was a Hack. I was surprised how much more stable that Hack ran than Windows ever did. 5 Yers later I got my Late 2011 MacBook Pro and 5 more years later the 2016 MBP, and I am equally happy with all three decisions.

 

[kazmac]

If I needed a laptop, I'd pass on these, but I hope the barrier fixes the sticky keys and such too for everyone who buys one.

 

[urtules]

Apple, just go back to the 2012-2015 keyboard design. It's far superior. It feels better, it was more reliable, and it was MUCH quieter. It checks all the boxes. Why did you change it and make it suck so much in these newer models? Just swallow your pride and go back to your great design!

I tried it in Store and it’s not enough to build an opinion, but from what I’ve heard from new MBP users, it feels more premium because of stability, keys don’t wobble, whenever you put your finger.

Feeling is just a habit, you get used it new keyboard and then old one gives you this weird feeling.

It is reliable, but this new generation can be reliable too.

New keyboard is thinner.

Old keyboard leaves smudges on the glass, some people even using cloth, it’s not perfect. I hope new one doesn’t do it but I don’t know.

 

[macintoshmac]

I tried it in Store and it’s not enough to build an opinion, but from what I’ve heard from new MBP users, it feels more premium because of stability, keys don’t, whenever you put your finger.

Feeling is just a habit, you get used it new keyboard and then old one gives you this weird feeling.

It is reliable, but this new generation can be reliable too.

New keyboard is thinner.

Old keyboard leaves smudges on the glass, some people even using cloth, it’s not perfect. I hope new one doesn’t do it but I don’t know.

Which old keyboard was leaving smudges on glass? 2016-2017 or the older ones?

 

[jaredm1]

Apple, just go back to the 2012-2015 keyboard design. It's far superior. It feels better, it was more reliable, and it was MUCH quieter. It checks all the boxes. Why did you change it and make it suck so much in these newer models? Just swallow your pride and go back to your great design!

Apple will sacrifice everything in their pursuit of an anorexic laptop. The old keyboard added an extra 2-3mm to the thickness - I recall that’s the main reason they cited for ditching it when they launched the butterfly.

At least with the RAM and storage updates Apple has finally acknowledged that looks can’t come at the expense of function - I hope it’s a learning they remember.

 

[Royksöpp]

None, because they didn’t try to radically reinvent the wheel either. Think like how every iPhone ‘S’ cycle improves on what the previous year’s version got wrong. Or the 2008 to 2010 MBA. Or Touch ID to Face ID.

Once the low-hanging fruit has been plucked, you have to be willing to give up what already worked for you in order to be able to make the leap to the next level. That’s just the nature of progress.

Exactly! No revisions! It never needed to be reinvented to begin with. I call BS on your theory of progression. In what way is dongles or busted keyboards considered progression? If anything it's a step backwards. It's a given fact that the 2016 redesign continues to have polarized opinions. It's a product full of compromises that has rubbed many people the wrong way. The only reason why they redesigned the keyboard was to fit into a thinner frame. It wasn't to improve an otherwise flawless keybord, but rather for aesthetics. In what twisted world is that "Natural Progression"?

 

[macintoshmac]

At least with the RAM and storage updates Apple has finally acknowledged that looks can’t come at the expense of function - I hope it’s a learning they remember.

What ...? RAM, storage and CPU updates and upgrades are made available in the best way they think and want to make for users. They could increase the battery and offset the DDR4 power consumption, and they did. Earlier, they could not, they waited on LP DDR4. Short of that, they went ahead and increased the battery size. T2 and consolidation of SMC and other controllers can also possibly offer some more space in the logic board, who knows, only a teardown will show.

 

[Colbach]

Does they will replace the old keys with these keys in the MBPs from 2017 when they fail, or will they will just replace them with the defective one? Does this is only for the new ones (2018)?

 

[urtules]

Which old keyboard was leaving smudges on glass? 2016-2017 or the older ones?

Larger keyboard which has more travel. On non USB-C laptops.

 

[macintoshmac]

I call BS. Progression shouldn't lead to problems or compromises. In what way is dongles or busted keyboards considered progression? If anything it's a step backwards. It's a given fact that the 2016 redesign continues to have polarized opinions. The only reason why they redesigned the keyboard was to fit into a thinner frame. It wasn't to improve an otherwise flawless keybord, but rather for aesthetics. In what twisted world is that "Natural Progression"?

I am reasonably sure they did not just take a thinner block of aluminium and then stoop over it to figure out how to put components in the thinner block. It was a conscious choice to redesign the keyboard.

 

[jaredm1]

What ...? RAM, storage and CPU updates and upgrades are made available in the best way they think and want to make for users. They could increase the battery and offset the DDR4 power consumption, and they did. Earlier, they could not, they waited on LP DDR4. Short of that, they went ahead and increased the battery size. T2 and consolidation of SMC and other controllers can also possibly offer some more space in the logic board, who knows, only a teardown will show.

They are not getting your business, right?

I ordered a new one - after clinging to my current MBP for 6 years! So they have got my business (again).

If Apple wanted to they could have solved the RAM limitation problem before - they only put engineering resource to the limit after the Internet backlash - I’m pretty certain of that.

For example, the non-tb 15” that’s now discontinued could have easily been re-engineered as a power workstation.

Don’t forget - Schiller’s first reaction was a telling ‘no one needs 32GB RAM’ - it took them so long because they mis-calculated they could consumerise a ‘Pro’ laptop, stick a turd called TouchBar on it and all was going to be well. They were wrong. I’m happy they realised it.

 

[Royksöpp]

I am reasonably sure they did not just take a thinner block of aluminium and then stooped over it to figure out how to put components in the thinner block. It was a conscious choice to redesign the keyboard.

Sounds like your forgetting about the MacBook. It pretty much sums up your entire comment.

 

[macintoshmac]

Sounds like your forgetting about the MacBook. It pretty much sums up your entire comment.

Yes, quite right. Now I remember, they were talking something similar too when the introduced it. Thanks for that reminder.

But hey, do we really think they just redesigned for thinness? Surely, they could have reduced the 0.5mm travel to 0.25mm in the first instance itself!

I get that they are obsessed with thinness, but to think that they would design for thinness first might be stretching it a little too much.

 

[urtules]

Good they (hopefully) fixed some issue, but what a world we live in: A huge company that can afford to replace almost anything if necessary (without financial problems) is not capable of the simple (and right) act of admitting a problem. Everybody who does something makes mistakes. Pretending they are gods is just pathetic from Apple. Sigh...

They have all this money because they work hard to earn it and spend it wisely. They disclosed how power management workes on iPhone, and what they got for it? More lawsuits, from jackals lawyers smelling the money. Even though they did necessary extra work to prevent iPhone to shut down. They’ve been called out on planned obsolescence, while working on iOS 12, ironic.
Everyone I know (3 persons) with butterfly keyboard, don’t even have problem with new keyboard. Why would they need to say something now? They already announced extended warranty program. Why would they damage their reputation, so people keep blaming them decades to come.

 

[macintoshmac]

I ordered a new one - after clinging to my current MBP for 6 years! So they have got my business (again).

If Apple wanted to they could have solved the RAM limitation problem before - they only put engineering resource to the limit after the Internet backlash - I’m pretty certain of that.

For example, the non-tb 15” that’s now discontinued could have easily been re-engineered as a power workstation.

I think, they were just caught waiting on LPDDR4. When it was not coming soon, they decided to take the DDR4 route. Also, the processors and T2 may have allowed them some freedom of space as well, to increase the battery size and therefore, offset the power consumption difference.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Apple, just go back to the 2012-2015 keyboard design. It's far superior. It feels better, it was more reliable, and it was MUCH quieter. It checks all the boxes. Why did you change it and make it suck so much in these newer models? Just swallow your pride and go back to your great design!

To be honest, I prefer this keyboard. Yes it was noiser and took a short time to get used to but at the end I don’t know if I would want to go back to my mid-2014 MacBook Pro keyboard. To each his/her own I guess.

 

[kstotlani]

This is being overlooked by a lot of people evidently. I still use an original Retina MacBook Pro (Mid 2012) and won't feel compelled to upgrade until Apple bumps up the resolution to 3360x2100.

Your point about the dongles is valid, but I've long stopped hoping for Apple to bring back USB-A ports or MagSafe or an SD card slot, and decided to just hope for a lower base price instead.

USB-C will eventually replace USB-A, but it's happening very slowly as I expected. USB-A is still found in many places that USB-C isn't, like the 2013 Mac Pro and 2014 Mac mini Apple is still selling as current models, as well as the 2015 MacBook Pro literally discontinued just yesterday.

Even Apple has USB A cables for iPhones, iPads and their watches. You would think they would have forced their own products to use USB C.

 

[827538]

So many people saying they want the old keys.

Have you actually compared the old keys vs the 2nd gen butterfly keys?

The old keys feel horrible and squishy and bendy - as in you can push down a corner and the opposite corner remains up.

Personally I like the butterfly keys, I do not want to go back to the squishy designs Apple previously used. Hopefully this 3rd gen key is perfect.

I have a MacBook with the 1st gen butterfly keys and I can type quickly and it feels good, the 2nd gen keys add just enough clickiness to feel perfect.
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To be honest, I prefer this keyboard. Yes it was noiser and took a short time to get used to but at the end I don’t know if I would want to go back to my mid-2014 MacBook Pro keyboard. To each his/her own I guess.

I’m the same, once you’ve gotten used to the new keys they are great. There’s just an adjustment period.

 

[majkom]

Still no reasonable no-pro notebook in portfolio, all apple has to do is update screen in mb air and little redesign, but that wont happen.

 

[827538]

Even Apple has USB A cables for iPhones, iPads and their watches. You would think they would have forced their own products to use USB C.

From all the rumours I’ve seen this year all Apple’s chargers are going USB-C.

I’ve pretty much transitioned completely to USB-C;

Sony A7R III Camera
Mybook Duo External backup
Samsung T5 external SSD
USB Flash drive
MacBook
Desktop

It’s the standard of the future, might as well get on board now and enjoy the benefits.

 

[terraphantm]

It's faster to type. More tactile feedback (clickier).

I can already type at around 100 wpm on the old macbook keyboard. The new ones are more fatiguing though since there's nearly no cushioning. Maybe the gasket will help in that regard, I haven't tried the new one.

 

[kstotlani]

From all the rumours I’ve seen this year all Apple’s chargers are going USB-C.

I’ve pretty much transitioned completely to USB-C;

Sony A7R III Camera
Mybook Duo External backup
Samsung T5 external SSD
USB Flash drive
MacBook
Desktop

It’s the standard of the future, might as well get on board now and enjoy the benefits.

All I am saying is that it has taken Apple 2 years and rumors about 2018 are just rumors. I am on board with it though. The design is simple on the new MacBook pros. SD card slot would have been better and removing MagSafe wasn’t great. They look great and I am sure they work great. I just cannot get myself to buy one because of the stupid touch bar and the price rise. More because of the price rise as I don’t intend to make money of mine. Too expensive for personal photography and development projects.

 

[theluggage]

They cannot afford to admit to mistakes. Why? Because no one will be happy with a new machine, they will sue Apple for all its bank in litigation charges and harassment and mental anguish and what not.

Nah... they've posted instructions for cleaning the keyboard, they've started a repair program and now they've introduced a new design with a membrane that looks suspiciously like their published patent for keeping dust out of a keyboard mechanism. You don't need to be Perry Mason, or even Judge Judy, to figure out that, more likely than not, the keyboards have a dust problem - this "cover-up" not going to slow the lawsuits down one jot.

However, "75% less likely to be destroyed by a grain of dust than our last model" is never a good look in advertising material, especially when they're still selling the non-touchbar MBP and the 12" MB that presumably don't have this fix yet. Apple wouldn't want to trouble all of the potential purchasers browsing the Apple web site or wandering into Apple stores by flagging up a problem that they probably won't have heard about unless they're an avid reader of tech websites. Meanwhile, the customers who have done their research and know about the problem were bound to find out about the fix 30 seconds after ifixit got their hands on a new model.

The other question is, how certain are Apple that the new design will fix the problem - from the look of the iFixit pictures, it isn't a continuous membrane (and you can see that air-holes might be an issue) and if dust does get in then that membrane is going to keep it in, whatever you do with canned air. NB: that's just speculation, but its the sort of speculation that can only be resolved by having enough thorough testing. Hopefully Apple have done that, but it isn't until thousands of units get out into the big wide world that you can totally eliminate the danger of encountering "the wrong type of dust".

Anyway, they still haven't fixed the fundamental flaw - a keyboard is a mechanical component that takes a lot of wear and tear, so a proportion will fail - Apple have designed it so that you can't replace the keyboard without replacing half of the computer. FAIL.