iFixit Teardown Suggests 2018 MacBook Pro Keys Feature a Silicone Barrier to Prevent Malfunctions Due to Dust

[MrGuder]

There are a lot of unboxing videos appearing of the 2018 model.
However, check out this video at 6:17 he does a comparison test between the 2018 keyboard and the 2016 keyboard. I can hardly hear any difference, quieter may only be very marginal at best.

 

[happyslayer]

I'v had a 2015 MacBook 12" (gave to wife), a 2016 MacBook Pro 13" (sold to 3rd party) and currently I run on a 2017 MacBook 12" and have only had a keyboard issue on the 2016 13" and Apple fixed that for free in 3 days. The 2 MacBooks with one a gen 1 and the other a gen 2 have been great. I personally love the feel of the new style keyboards. I type a lot on them and really like them. I admit, they are a bit loud, but that's what headphones and music are for I am glad Apple is upgrading them and hopefully any future issues will be much much less than whatever it is now. If I needed the power, I would certainly buy one of the new Pros. (That 15" i9 model with 32Gb RAM is kind of calling out to me.) Sadly my bank account (and probably my wife) are saying no right now.

 

[macintoshmac]

Yes the trackpad on the 15” is larger than the 13” one. But even the 13” is now larger than the old trackpads.

Oh, my. An even larger trackpad. I love the larger estate on my 13 inch though. Much appreciated and although first couple of hours I had trouble, the hands accustomed themselves very well and automagically.

 

[Dexterama]

The more complex each key is then the more prone to failure each becomes. Loading each key with a silicone membrane, what can't go wrong there? What Apple really wants is to get to a point where the keyboard has no moving parts. Sort of like the touchpad but for each key. It'll come.

I look forward to trying this kind of keyboard design if it ever comes to fruition. It will be like 3D touch and the current iPhone home button, but for each key. I am sure there will be some uproar over this design because it means key travel will almost be nonexistent. I’d imagine they will only incorporate this keyboard design to maybe one model at first to ease the transition, and for it to serve as the face of the new design language until other models receive the same treatment.

With that said, my favorite keyboard to type on is Apple’s smart keyboard for the iPad Pro. I like the texture and responsiveness. Plus, no debris can get inside.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Also, because of this dust, skin flakes will also be an issue.

I have a twenty-year-old ps/2 (look it-up kids) keyboard that still works today via a USB converter. If "skin flakes" are a problem with your design then you've designed it wrong pure and simple!

 

[macintoshmac]

I have a twenty-year-old ps/2 (look it-up kids) keyboard that still works today via a USB converter. If "skin flakes" are a problem with your design then you've designed it wrong pure and simple!

No need to look it up, grandpa. We know what you are talking about.

 

[Feenician]

I have a twenty-year-old ps/2 (look it-up kids) keyboard that still works today via a USB converter. If "skin flakes" are a problem with your design then you've designed it wrong pure and simple!

Connect it to an iPad

https://afterpad.com/how-to-use-classic-mechanical-keyboards-on-modern-ipads/

(Ok, the example here is ADB but it’s totally doable for PS/2)

 

[Shanghaichica]

A cover up? This is why I hate iFixit. Too much snark and way to big of an ego, especially when it comes to anything Apple.

Doesn’t sound like a cover up to me. They are fixing a problem which is a good thing imo.

But remember ifixit sponsor Linus tech tips. A guy that opened up his Mac Pro. Fiddled about with it and broke it to the point that it’s beyond repair and is now screaming that Apple won’t fix it for him.

 

[aleni]

Its as if millions of basement-dwelling Apple haters suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.
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Because it was fine for then. But once you've gotten used to the newer type, there's just no going back. The old school is horrible to me now. I'd never go back.

The old one feels wobbly like typing on a marshmallow.

 

[groove-agent]

dude, don't like the Touch Bar, don't use it. jeez, what a baseless complaint.

Price reduced? talk to Intel about that,

I read somewhere on MR the touch bar drives the price up about $350. If you don't use it, why pay for a gimmicky add on that they created in an attempt to prove to world that they can still innovate.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

A guy that opened up his Mac Pro. Fiddled about with it and broke it to the point that it’s beyond repair and is now screaming that Apple won’t fix it for him.

To be fair he's screaming that Apple won't take any amount of money from him to fix it; he's not expecting a free lunch.

 

[groove-agent]

How long before the KB is ditched in favour of a touch screen?

It wouldn't surprise me that they're making the action lower and lower in order to acclimatize us to the idea. However, I don't know how a touch screen will work for touch typers.

 

[Shanghaichica]

To be fair he's screaming that Apple won't take any amount of money from him to fix it; he's not expecting a free lunch.

Yes but he breached the terms and conditions of use so Apple are well within their rights to refuse to repair it at any cost. There also becomes a point where something can no longer be repaired and cannot be salvaged and this is what has happened here. Doesn’t matter how much money Linus throws at it. You can’t defy the laws of physics. However I think Linus knew this and just wanted to cause controversy to get views for his channel.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Yes but he breached the terms and conditions of use so Apple are well within their rights to refuse to repair it at any cost. There also becomes a point where something can no longer be repaired and cannot be salvaged and this is what has happened here. Doesn’t matter how much money Linus throws at it. You can’t defy the laws of physics. However I think Linus knew this and just wanted to cause controversy to get views for his channel.

You're right.

 

[Dammit Cubs]

Apple, just go back to the 2012-2015 keyboard design. It's far superior. It feels better, it was more reliable, and it was MUCH quieter. It checks all the boxes. Why did you change it and make it suck so much in these newer models? Just swallow your pride and go back to your great design!

I like the new keyboards much better. I have both and going back to the old one just annoys me.

 

[smirking]

It wouldn't surprise me that they're making the action lower and lower in order to acclimatize us to the idea. However, I don't know how a touch screen will work for touch typers.

Since when does Apple break in their users gently on a concept they believe in?

If anything, I'd believe that the butterfly switch is actually a good sign that physical keyboards are not going away. It's a sign that Apple is investing in producing a product that's thin enough that it could be used instead of a touch screen keyboard. Besides, I'm not certain that a touch screen actually saves space. They're not exactly the thickness of a sheet of paper.

And if there ever did come to be a touch screen keyboard, it may look far different than most people would imagine it looking. It has been a dream of some uber keyboard geeks to see a viable full sized keyboard that has an OLED display under each key. Well, there actually IS a keyboard like this, but "viable" doesn't quite describe it as it's no longer in production and was $1600 when it was actually being made.

If a Macbook Pro were to ever get a fully customizable touch screen keyboard someday, it could possibly be a clicky touchscreen that behaves like dozens of mini touchscreens. If that were the case, I could probably get to like it.

 

[Val-kyrie]

We will just have to wait and see for someone on here with a 2016/17 model to go in and see what they come back with. If it is just the added film I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to include it on the older models - the only thing would be as they can’t remove the keyboard they would actually have to manufacture entirely new topcases (read pretty much the whole computer) to be the replacement parts. Are they willing to do that or could they literally even start dishing out 2018 models as replacements if it’s cheaper to do it that way?

All that I am interested now is to know if from now on the repair of previous model keyboards will be replaced by this. Maybe this is the solution to the problems with that design. Time will tell, but I am rather hopeful than spiteful.

I would not bet on Apple replacing 2015-2017 keyboards with the new 2018 design because that would require Apple to give users a battery with increased capacity since the entire top case (including battery) has to be replaced on 2015-2017 MBs and 2016-2017 MBPs with faulty keyboards. It sounds as if the newer 2018 keyboard design might not require the entire top case to be replaced to fix at least some keyboard issues.

I might be in a minority when I say that I liked the feel of the MacBook keyboard, just not the tick tick sound. The travel was made perceptibly deeper in generation 2 keyboards with the MB Pro, which I bought in 2016, but the crisp feel of the MacBook keyboard is something I miss. It was, to me, just the right amount of feel the touch-typist in me liked to have. Prior to that, I was typing on an iPad and an MBP 2011.

In store, I was able to type faster on the MacBook keyboard than I could on the MacBook Pro keyboard. Only, owing to needing more power and residing in a hotter climate, I chose a notebook with fans - MBP.

I think you are noticing the increased resistance between Gen 1 and Gen 2 keyboards. There was no change in travel depth for the keys on the keyboard.

 

[smirking]

I would not bet on Apple replacing 2015-2017 keyboards with the new 2018 design because that would require Apple to give users a battery with increased capacity

I don't think gifting people a nicer battery would stop Apple from doing that. It could actually be cheaper for them to standardize against one case instead of having to stock inventory for a diminished version of the 2018 case, but that the 2018 has a larger battery might be a problem in of itself. A larger battery may not fit safely in a 2017 or 2016 MBP.

 

[Substance90]

Funny, on another topic, you posted that you wondered if Apple fixed the keyboard issues.

Now that you have your answer (at least 90% of it), you say that they should go back using what everyone else is using so they don't have a competitive advantage.

What's next?

Apple should drop APFS, because they make their hardware run faster?

Apple should drop macOS and use Windows?

I wouldn't call their ****** keyboard a competitive advantage. As far as I'm concerned, macOS is pretty much the only competitive advantage still keeping Macs relevant. Hardware wise other manufacturers have long since caught up and event surpassed Apple in some areas.

 

[macintoshmac]

I think you are noticing the increased resistance between Gen 1 and Gen 2 keyboards. There was no change in travel depth for the keys on the keyboard.

To be sure, I was talking about difference between 2015 MB keyboard and 2016 MBP keyboard. I do not remember much detail about difference of key travel between 2015 MB and 2016 MBP keys, so it is entirely possible I got it wrong. Thanks for mentioning.

I do know that 2016 and 2017 keys have same travel.
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I don't think gifting people a nicer battery would stop Apple from doing that. It could actually be cheaper for them to standardize against one case instead of having to stock inventory for a diminished version of the 2018 case, but that the 2018 has a larger battery might be a problem in of itself. A larger battery may not fit safely in a 2017 or 2016 MBP.

Indeed. I think teardown will reveal a newly done logic board, because several components have been now integrated in the T2, too, possibly liberating enough space for Apple to help the MBP with a larger battery. Real life battery results should be an interesting watch.

Owing to this possible redesign, 2017 and below top cases may not be replaced with the 2018 top case, despite the exterior being the same.

 

[ZMacintosh]

Ifixit has been salty towards apple in recent years, to the point of exhaustion. Not everyone should or can or watch ever fix their devices, if appple mucks it up, I’ll take it up with them to find a suitable resolution, but if I do it myself or through ifixit or some 3rd party..where is the liability and who’s to say they don’t flake out or keep throwing cheap non oem parts at things.
for the keyboards, in person they are noticeably quieter an feel a tad more comfortable. They have the 2018 touchbar and 2017 non touchbar macs side by side at a few local stores and you can tell the difference, plus with the nice spec increases these are awesome systems.

 

[ocnitsa]

Indeed. I think teardown will reveal a newly done logic board, because several components have been now integrated in the T2, too, possibly liberating enough space for Apple to help the MBP with a larger battery. Real life battery results should be an interesting watch.

Owing to this possible redesign, 2017 and below top cases may not be replaced with the 2018 top case, despite the exterior being the same.

I think they said with the switch to more RAM they'd have to design new memory controllers...they suggested that such a redesign would take up battery space, which in addition to the more power extra non-low power RAM would draw would make 32GB of RAM a no go. So, I think you are right regarding the logic board.

 

[macintoshmac]

I think they said with the switch to more RAM they'd have to design new memory controllers...they suggested that such a redesign would take up battery space, which in addition to the more power extra non-low power RAM would draw would make 32GB of RAM a no go. So, I think you are right regarding the logic board.

Yes and until now with Sky and Kaby Lake and T1 chip, consolidation was just not there to give them space for increasing battery size. Only teardown will reveal what is going on inside! If I had one, I would have opened the back just to see what is up with it.

 

[geromi912]

Uh, no. Because it's not. Next question.

People wanted:

Old keyboard system (even ignoring the reliability problem, the new keyboards feel gross to type on. the new ones are still super loud, too.)

The old, smaller trackpad (new one is too big - lots of accidental input)

Ports - USB-C is great, but 20 years of legacy won't vanish overnight. Having the ability to hook up my stuff without dongles is essential

The stupid ****ing touch bar to go away - Transitioning from typing on keys to touching glass mid-sentence is just gross.

A resolution bump - the 15" MBPR still has the reduced effective resolution of the original Retina MacBook Pro.

Core count bump - delivered

32GB of ram - delivered

Pricing reduced to 2015 levels - nope, a semi-decent largely base 15" config is still well over $3000. A bit much for a fairly terrible laptop.

Don’t forget the 3 year old graphics card.
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Because the Dell XPS 15 is so problem free, it could be defined as a perfect laptop. (I realize this is a 2 year old thread, but... https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/3spvho/list_of_known_issues_with_the_xps_15_9550/)

My brother got an XPS 13 this year. He can't play a intensive game on it without it shutting off on him from overheating. Dell won't do anything about it so he has to use a laptop cooler and hope his laptop doesn't restart in the middle of a game.

Only Apple laptops have problems.

That said, our office did buy a nice XPS 15 - Costco had them on serious sale a month ago? or two. Specs are nice. Screen, build quality, overall feel not so much. But I could see myself living with it, especially at the Costco discount price.

XPS 15?
- gtx 1050ti massively faster than rx560x
-4K option MUCH better than MBP in resolution and colour accuracy.
-ram and SSD not soldered
“Overreal feel” is completely subjective and ill only give you marginally better build quality and faster SSD. However I suspect most people would choose 1TB 1gb/s over 256gb 3.2gb/s.

 

[Rogifan]

Not the point. With Windows one can choose what mix of form or function works best. With the Mac all get are cute looking thin toys, that do work for a lot of non-critical usages, but fail if you need any computing power over time.

No it is the point when people complain about Apple being obsessed with thinness as if they’re the only ones. For basically Apple 2.0’s entire existence there have been other companies offering more choice and/or lower prices. This is nothing new.
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Thing is, he wouldn't blunder and then pretend he didn't.

No he’d just get up on stage and say everyone else blunders too. Or tell someone they’re holding it wrong.