iFixit Teardown Suggests 2018 MacBook Pro Keys Feature a Silicone Barrier to Prevent Malfunctions Due to Dust

[BigMcGuire]

Don’t forget the 3 year old graphics card.
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XPS 15?
- gtx 1050ti massively faster than rx560x
-4K option MUCH better than MBP in resolution and colour accuracy.
-ram and SSD not soldered
“Overreal feel” is completely subjective and ill only give you marginally better build quality and faster SSD. However I suspect most people would choose 1TB 1gb/s over 256gb 3.2gb/s.

Having sat in front of our XPS 15 I’d have to disagree about the color accuracy. Our display may be faulty but the sharpness is horrible and text readability is difficult. The laptop has that carbon fiber wrist base thing while rest is bendable cheap plastic. I didn’t like the keyboard either. Gpu is faster yes, just hope it doesn’t constantly restart when pegged like our XPS 13 even with a laptop cooler. Most people buying Macs in the $3-4K range won’t get a 256gb ssd. But hey if the XPS works for you great. I’d not recommend the 13 but the 15 isn’t bad especially deep sale discounts at Costco.

 

[Val-kyrie]

This refresh scored 60% (3 out of 5) for me. Was hoping that Apple would increase the display resolution and lower the price, neither of those things happened. The Touch Bar MacBook Pros remain overpriced with a display resolution from six years ago.

I don’t get it what you want, I have the 2016 MacBook Pro and the display is more than perfect!
(Keyboard is another issue as it was replaced 2 times till now)
The current keyboard from June repair seems quieter, so I hope I got the new one.

The issue goes back to a discussion from when Apple introduced "retina" displays. Screen resolution--and here I speak of native screen resolution--may have two distinct effects: (1) it may increase the screen real estate, i.e. how much information can be displayed on your screen at one time. E.g., a screen with a native resolution of 720dpi shows less information than a screen with a resolution of 900dpi. This is true regardless of whether the same resolution is displayed on a 13" or 15". Thus a 13" screen with a resolution of 720dpi displays the same information as a 15" screen with 720dpi. The difference is that the information on the 15" screen will look bigger and more blurry / less clear than on the 13" screen.

The solution to this lack of clarity is the other function of resolution: (2) increasing resolution can be used to increase clarity while maintaining screen real estate. In years past, Apple's 13" line had a native resolution of 1280x800. When Apple shifted to retina displays, it doubled the resolution to 2560x1600; likewise the 15" went from 1440x900 to 2880x1800. So here is the issue: the current resolutions offer a high degree of clarity but display no more information than before. I.e. the 1600dpi screen shows only as much information natively as the 800dpi screen, only clearer, the 1800dpi only as much as the 900dpi.

It is possible to set the resolution of the 13" to 1680x1050 or even 1440x900 to get more screen real estate, but the clarity will suffer. Similarly the 15" may be set to 1920x1200 or 1680x1050, but again one is sacrificing clarity for screen real estate and also working the GPU harder to display a non-native resolution.

When others like me request a higher resolution screen, we are asking for a native resolution that provides more screen real estate than the current 800dpi on the 13" and 900dpi on the 15". Other OEMS are offering native 1080dpi, 1440dpi, and even 4K screens in 13" and 15" laptops. Thus Apple has crisp displays but they are not even full HD (1080p) and thus don't display as much information as other premium notebooks.

Non-butterfly keyboards from other manufacturers like Dell, Lenovo, and HP experience the exact same types of issues that require repair as the MBP keyboard. There's nothing unique about sticky keys, non-functional keys, or keyboard replacements in the laptop industry. Apple has said the number of repairs is "small", so perhaps the lawsuits will provide what percentage of the install base that amounts to.

There are 2 issues here: (1) keyboard reliability and durability. The butterfly keyboards have been a bit of a shock to the Mac community due to the reported problems inherent in the new design. This is unusual for Apple, but is not exclusive to them. Yes, all keyboards can fail.

The bigger issue IMO is the (2) the repairability of these keyboards. The fact that the Gen 1 and 2 keyboards require replacing the entire top half of the laptop and the high cost of replacement and the time to have this done (~1 week) is an aberration in an industry where most other OEMS can fix or replace broken keyboards in an hour or two for under $200, often around $100,and under $100 if you do the repair yourself.

I don't think the failures on the butterfly keyboards would be such a big issue if the cost to fix them and the time to repair them were more in line with the rest of the industry.

 

[Val-kyrie]

To be sure, I was talking about difference between 2015 MB keyboard and 2016 MBP keyboard. I do not remember much detail about difference of key travel between 2015 MB and 2016 MBP keys, so it is entirely possible I got it wrong. Thanks for mentioning.

I do know that 2016 and 2017 keys have same travel.

I misread you then. I thought you were talking about only the butterfly keyboards. You are correct the new keyboards have less travel than the 2012-2015 keyboards.

 

[cmaier]

Maybe the keyboard problems are a result of excessive heat due to usage patterns affecting the plastic keys parts and/or the aluminium case. Apple's design requires the parts to be manufactured with extremely fine tolerances and won't take much deviation/deformation to have a negative effect. Also, because of this dust, skin flakes will also be an issue. This may account for not everyone having the problem during the same time frame. Hope this silicon cover helps for those buy this.

I’ve found my b-key stops working when the fans are running. I believe the issue is heat causing deflection of parts, and has nothing to do with dust. Certainly compressed air has never solved the problem for me.

 

[macintoshmac]

Having sat in front of our XPS 15 I’d have to disagree about the color accuracy. Our display may be faulty but the sharpness is horrible and text readability is difficult. The laptop has that carbon fiber wrist base thing while rest is bendable cheap plastic. I didn’t like the keyboard either. Gpu is faster yes, just hope it doesn’t constantly restart when pegged like our XPS 13 even with a laptop cooler. Most people buying Macs in the $3-4K range won’t get a 256gb ssd. But hey if the XPS works for you great. I’d not recommend the 13 but the 15 isn’t bad especially deep sale discounts at Costco.

Often, people forget that cramming the best hardware goes only so far. It also needs to work reliably and efficiently. What use is a top of the line graphics chipset if there are cooling issues when playing a game? People just counter the Mac pricing, forgetting conveniently that the hardware works.

 

[Val-kyrie]

There are Windows laptops thinner than the MB/MBP.

Yes, and their keyboards still offer adequate key travel (according to ergonomic guidelines) and reliability--see especially the Lenovo X1 Carbon or T-series.

I think IFIXIT wording of "cover up" was really on the silicone butterfly mech cover! Apple is in a difficult place here as they can't come out and say this repairs the issue as that would cost them 10 of millions is costs replacing every MacBook Pro keyboard with the better designed unit. So they have to walk a very narrow path. Frankly, this is still not a fully dust proof cover from the looks of it.

As for IFIXIT: Who is looking our for your interests in your gears repairability? Our government over sight has failed to protect the consumer! Many of the protections we once had are either being watered down or shut down. You don't need to look that far! FTC & FCC are no longer protecting us! Even the EPA has been muzzled.

Apple is already making it harder to get your system repaired at a realistic cost. Their design is to make the system throw-a-way! Are you really to toss the 3 or 4k you payed after a small issue!

The FCC will now consider listening to the consumer, but only if the consumer pays $225 to file a grievance.

It's awfully fishy, though, that this was filed in Sept of 2016 and specifically suited towards keeping contaminants out of the apertures. Presumably, they were releasing a product that they knew would let stuff in there, until they could implement this patent (at some point)...You have a point, though, that we don't know for sure and a lot of assumptions are being made...some seem more likely than others based on circumstantial evidence. If the patent had said the membrane would dampen noise, and that explanation had been filed back in 2016, then that might be a different story.

Actually, people are arguing over inferences, not assumptions.

 

[chucker23n1]

I think they said with the switch to more RAM they'd have to design new memory controllers...they suggested that such a redesign would take up battery space, which in addition to the more power extra non-low power RAM would draw would make 32GB of RAM a no go. So, I think you are right regarding the logic board.

What they appear to have done is move the 15-inch back away from LPDDR, clock it at 2400 MHz instead of the max, and expand the battery to compensate for the added energy.

 

[Val-kyrie]

iFixit is a terrible company that pays YouTubers to FUD Apple's AASP's with lies and deceipt, like Linus Tech Tips.

Also, their components are counterfeit and their tools prices are ridiculous.

Evidence?

Sounds like you have an axe to grind with baseless accusations. Agree or not, at least ifixit has made an argument; you just make accusations.

I can't stand them and their "holier than tho" attitude with the "right to repair".

Right to repair is law, like it or not. Without it, we would be at the mercy of corporations who would (and do) charge exorbitant sums of money to do anything with our products, including upgrades or repairs.

Fine. Form your own computer company and put out those models. You will put out something quite ugly, or at least, old-fashioned, and 2% of techies will say, "Hurrah!" Actually, given the sales of these machines, "people" don't want your 2012 revisited. I prefer the new keyboards. The old ones had too much travel. Bad for typists. Carpal tunnel syndrome.

Stop the misinformation.

Ergonomically, keys should have a travel depth of 1.5-2.0mm and be spaced 5mm apart, center to center of key, to provide healthy hand posture and to help prevent carpal tunnel. Too little travel depth increases risk of carpal tunnel because a person's fingers will push the key too far, too hard, and strain the finger and hand.
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It wouldn't surprise me that they're making the action lower and lower in order to acclimatize us to the idea. However, I don't know how a touch screen will work for touch typers.

It won't work, at least not for me.

 

[Tech198]

Obviously, sometimes experience takes over..

iFixit is a terrible company that pays YouTubers to FUD Apple's AASP's with lies and deceipt, like Linus Tech Tips.

Also, their components are counterfeit and their tools prices are ridiculous.

I think people can think for themselves, they don't need help. And if they change their decision, just due to $$$... well that means they really don't have a brain either. Just look at how the world bows down because "you payed me enough"

It takes guts to say "no"

 

[drewyboy]

Its as if millions of basement-dwelling Apple haters suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

You mean Apple finally fixing a design flaw will silence the folks that have been saying that all along? Shocker. No need to try to take a jab to make yourself look good. Some of us are actually objective.

 

[ocnitsa]

I’ve found my b-key stops working when the fans are running. I believe the issue is heat causing deflection of parts, and has nothing to do with dust. Certainly compressed air has never solved the problem for me.

It's ironic that you posted this right before this guy below posted his comment.

Often, people forget that cramming the best hardware goes only so far. It also needs to work reliably and efficiently. What use is a top of the line graphics chipset if there are cooling issues when playing a game? People just counter the Mac pricing, forgetting conveniently that the hardware works.

 

[827538]

USB-C is an awesome connector, agreed.

Your sig says you have a retina MacBook m3. Which year? Is that your sole computer? How is your experience with it and what are you using it for?

2016 Skylake based MacBook. No I also have a high performance desktop and I use it for watching stuff, work, browsing, music etc. It's fantastic and I love it.

 

[Idefix]

This is the first Apple laptop with prophylactics on all the keys...

 

[MrGuder]

I’ve found my b-key stops working when the fans are running. I believe the issue is heat causing deflection of parts, and has nothing to do with dust. Certainly compressed air has never solved the problem for me.

This is why I’m really interested in how the 2018 with the membrane beneath the keys will react to heat temps from the MBP. It also may not be apparent in just a few months but how will it hold up over a year. Did they design this membrane out of heat resistant material?

 

[baryon]

Tim Cook enters the stage.

"Our users have made it clear that they want more repairable and upgradeable computers. We've listened to you. Let me introduce the new Mac lineup, redesigned from the ground up. First, here's the MacBook Pro. Only slightly thicker, when you remove the back cover secured by standard screws, you find a user replaceable battery, RAM and SSD. Under the battery, a replaceable trackpad, and under the motherboard, a keyboard held in by traditional screws. We recognize the importance of repairability for the environment and for product longevity."

Crowd cheers, CNN announces breaking news as Apple finally stops behaving like total ***holes.

Johny Ive appears on a white background.

"The Mac has always been about simplicity. Over the years, we've added more and more functionality, in increasingly thin devices, at the cost of serviceability. The new Mac lineup is all about returning to what Apple is about. So much so, that every Mac now comes with a set of screwdrivers so you can replace the battery and the SSD yourself. We are proud to announce that the new Mac lineup is entirely adhesive-free."

Of course this isn't going to happen. But this would be the right thing to do. If they don't change, eventually things will go wrong. People will realize that their devices aren't durable and that repair prices are ridiculous and unjustified. It's up to Apple whether they want to wait for that to happen and become the villain (if it isn't too late), or if they want to be the good guys again.

I feel that Apple is abusing their position, in which people who loyally use their "Apple ecosystem" and who can't imagine ever returning to Windows are being exploited and punished for their loyalty. If you want to keep using macOS (which is really what it's all about), then you can choose from 3 options: an all-glue MacBook Pro, an all-glue iMac or an underpowered Mac Mini. The Mac Pro is a failure and so is the MacBook, and the MacBook Air is outdated, so let's just forget about those. All your other options are Windows. Most Mac users would rather use a glued-together piece of junk than a repairable PC, simply because they've experienced how well an operating system can work, and going back seems like torture. But why does this mean that the hardware needs to be disposable?

 

[Sciomar]

Tim Cook enters the stage.

"Our users have made it clear that they want more repairable and upgradeable computers. We've listened to you. Let me introduce the new Mac lineup, redesigned from the ground up. First, here's the MacBook Pro. Only slightly thicker, when you remove the back cover secured by standard screws, you find a user replaceable battery, RAM and SSD. Under the battery, a replaceable trackpad, and under the motherboard, a keyboard held in by traditional screws. We recognize the importance of repairability for the environment and for product longevity."

Crowd cheers, CNN announces breaking news as Apple finally stops behaving like total ***holes.

Johny Ive appears on a white background.

"The Mac has always been about simplicity. Over the years, we've added more and more functionality, in increasingly thin devices, at the cost of serviceability. The new Mac lineup is all about returning to what Apple is about. So much so, that every Mac now comes with a set of screwdrivers so you can replace the battery and the SSD yourself. We are proud to announce that the new Mac lineup is entirely adhesive-free."

Of course this isn't going to happen. But this would be the right thing to do. If they don't change, eventually things will go wrong. People will realize that their devices aren't durable and that repair prices are ridiculous and unjustified. It's up to Apple whether they want to wait for that to happen and become the villain (if it isn't too late), or if they want to be the good guys again.

I feel that Apple is abusing their position, in which people who loyally use their "Apple ecosystem" and who can't imagine ever returning to Windows are being exploited and punished for their loyalty. If you want to keep using macOS (which is really what it's all about), then you can choose from 3 options: an all-glue MacBook Pro, an all-glue iMac or an underpowered Mac Mini. The Mac Pro is a failure and so is the MacBook, and the MacBook Air is outdated, so let's just forget about those. All your other options are Windows. Most Mac users would rather use a glued-together piece of junk than a repairable PC, simply because they've experienced how well an operating system can work, and going back seems like torture. But why does this mean that the hardware needs to be disposable?

They could do exactly this and the garbage on this forum would still cry and complain about something.

 

[ocnitsa]

you can choose from 3 options: an all-glue MacBook Pro, an all-glue iMac or an underpowered Mac Mini. The Mac Pro is a failure and so is the MacBook, and the MacBook Air is outdated, so let's just forget about those. All your other options are Windows.

There are people who choose other options...such as hackintosh or running MacOS in a virtual machine (works okay for non-power users). Just sayin'.

 

[geromi912]

Having sat in front of our XPS 15 I’d have to disagree about the color accuracy. Our display may be faulty but the sharpness is horrible and text readability is difficult. The laptop has that carbon fiber wrist base thing while rest is bendable cheap plastic. I didn’t like the keyboard either. Gpu is faster yes, just hope it doesn’t constantly restart when pegged like our XPS 13 even with a laptop cooler. Most people buying Macs in the $3-4K range won’t get a 256gb ssd. But hey if the XPS works for you great. I’d not recommend the 13 but the 15 isn’t bad especially deep sale discounts at Costco.[/
I’m not talking out of my arse. Notebookcheck measures the UHD XPS15 has a wider colour gamut than any laptop including the MBP. Also the 13” shouldn’t restart from heat. Maybe try undervolting a little? And I mean, if you prefer the BUTTERFLY keys to something with decent key travel, then whatever floats your boat?

 

[baryon]

There are people who choose other options...such as hackintosh or running MacOS in a virtual machine (works okay for non-power users). Just sayin'.

I was thinking about building a Hackintosh actually, but the thing is, I don't have the patience to mess around when obscure issues inevitably come up. The whole reason I left Windows behind was that I just wanted a computer I can get stuff done with without having to try solving obscure issues.

 

[macintoshmac]

It's ironic that you posted this right before this guy below posted his comment.

I so knew something like this would happen.

 

[BigMcGuire]

@geromi912


Oh, I know you aren’t. I never meant to imply so. Having seen the two side by side in person that was just my unscientific observation.

I wouldn’t say I prefer the butterfly keyboard. I’ve gotten used to it and once I found out how to use it correctly it isn’t all that bad. I honestly think this obsession with thinnness is going way too far.

I used a Dell Latitude D830 for years back in the day. With the two media bay batteries it was close to 10 pounds. That thing was a beast. I’m a windows programmer by day so I’m not anti Dell or windows.

 

[RyanXM]

iFixit plans to continue on with its teardown next week and may have more information to share, but given the interest in the third-generation butterfly keyboard, the site didn't want to wait to highlight potential good news.

Article Link: iFixit Teardown Suggests 2018 MacBook Pro Keys Feature a Silicone Barrier to Prevent Malfunctions Due to Dust

Awaiting this much anticipated teardown....

 

[AnthonyHarris]

Yes but he breached the terms and conditions of use so Apple are well within their rights to refuse to repair it at any cost. There also becomes a point where something can no longer be repaired and cannot be salvaged and this is what has happened here. Doesn’t matter how much money Linus throws at it. You can’t defy the laws of physics. However I think Linus knew this and just wanted to cause controversy to get views for his channel.

The guy is a moron.

 

[DanBig]

iFixit is a terrible company that pays YouTubers to FUD Apple's AASP's with lies and deceipt, like Linus Tech Tips.

Also, their components are counterfeit and their tools prices are ridiculous.

TimmyCook - Where do you get this diatribe!

Apple does not sell its parts directly so where do you think most of the repair parts come from?

IFIXIT goes to where these parts are made and gets them directly from the suppliers Apple uses! While they don't have the Apple seal on them they are just as good as the parts Apple contracts. Some parts are by taking systems apart to recover the parts.

If Apple was more like Ford & GM where you could go to your nearest car dealer and get the timing gear or what not, then you would a case here.

No one is forcing you to buy from them either their parts or tools. But you'll be hard pressed to find a better supplier!

Maybe you should visit them or how about TheBookYard in the UK or any one of the major parts suppliers outside of Apple.

 

[TimmeyCook]

IFIXIT goes to where these parts are made and gets them directly from the suppliers Apple uses!

You actually believe this!