I wonder if silicon will last long. Will it work as good as new after 10 years or so?
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iFixit Teardown Suggests 2018 MacBook Pro Keys Feature a Silicone Barrier to Prevent Malfunctions Due to Dust
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If we take that at face value, then perhaps $3k-$5k laptops aren’t the best place to try out brand new keyboard designs where their failure means the failure of a critical component. These aren’t desktops where you can just replace the keyboard if the design doesn’t work out as intended. If new keyboard designs are as finicky and complicated as you’re saying, maybe they should be launched on the magic keyboard models first to test their reliability where they aren’t a critical part of the computer. Apple’s hubris here seems to have bitten them and their customers in the ass.
And here we go.
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In a laptop, the failure of a keyboard is a failure of a critical component at any price range.
Okay, this is the sign I was waiting for. looks like I need to take out a loan
Perhaps not, but rolling it out with an external device may not have been a valid trial run. Yeah, they could have tried this first with the Magic Keyboard, but that wouldn't necessarily be a valid test run. Rolling out a keyboard that has to conform to the tight clearances, crowded circuitry, and heat of thin laptop is a lot different than just rolling out a keyboard with new switches.
Anyway, it seems they actually did do this with a lesser product. It first appeared in the MacBook. There seems to be agreement that something changed with the keyboard from the MacBook to the MacBook Pro. Presumably they made tweaks to fix issues that they discovered, but did their tweaks miss the mark or perhaps actually worsen some vulnerabilities while fixing others?
The only people who know exactly why the keyboards have issues is Apple. Everyone else, iFixit included, are just speculating. It's not implausible that the problems we're seeing today might actually be caused by the fixes they made yesterday.
Good they (hopefully) fixed some issue, but what a world we live in: A huge company that can afford to replace almost anything if necessary (without financial problems) is not capable of the simple (and right) act of admitting a problem. Everybody who does something makes mistakes. Pretending they are gods is just pathetic from Apple. Sigh...
Quite the opposite. The old scissor switches had a much greater feel than the butterfly ones and fewer issues as well. The more I have to use the new mechanism the more I appreciate the old. I don't care if the new one cuts costs or if it makes the laptop thinner; this is not progress. Many people think that typing on a virtual keyboard on glass is ok and even more people are comfortable buying and believing whatever the industry sells and markets. I am not one of them. I don't need Apple to think for me.
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So they have introduced a potential backdoor fix for the keyboard but they are continuing to replace 2016/2017 models with a dodgy keyboard.
Will Apple retrofit the membrane for all top case keyboards to cover the 2016/2017 issues, going forward? Especially if this does fix the issue? It's not as if the membrane is too big and will hamper the internal schematics in the 2016/2017 models...
Will Apple retrofit the membrane for all top case keyboards to cover the 2016/2017 issues, going forward? Especially if this does fix the issue? It's not as if the membrane is too big and will hamper the internal schematics in the 2016/2017 models...
They cannot afford to admit to mistakes. Why? Because no one will be happy with a new machine, they will sue Apple for all its bank in litigation charges and harassment and mental anguish and what not. If only we had consumers who would be happy with Apple admitting and replacing it for free, we would have an Apple admitting problems and going it.
Apple still holds replacement programs like no other business does - purely because of scale of replacements they need to do. 6s batteries, sometimes faulty cables, sometimes chargers, sometimes graphic chipsets, now keyboards. At least they find a middle path for themselves (and shareholders) and customers.
Well from the MacBook to the MacBook Pro the main change they instigated was making the feedback more definite (I really don’t think I ever could have gotten used to the first gen used in the MB, but the second gen, while it isn’t my favourite, is certainly a usable keyboard). It’s interesting the issue only really seemed to materialise for gen 2, but it doesn’t seem anything is significantly different that they would necessarily have caused the sticking keys issue while amending the design to give more feedback?
Apple was once about "for the rest of us". Remember that.
If you do not need/ want/ like/ appreciate them to think for you, the custom building of the Windows world awaits.
We will just have to wait and see for someone on here with a 2016/17 model to go in and see what they come back with. If it is just the added film I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to include it on the older models - the only thing would be as they can’t remove the keyboard they would actually have to manufacture entirely new topcases (read pretty much the whole computer) to be the replacement parts. Are they willing to do that or could they literally even start dishing out 2018 models as replacements if it’s cheaper to do it that way?
I might be in a minority when I say that I liked the feel of the MacBook keyboard, just not the tick tick sound. The travel was made perceptibly deeper in generation 2 keyboards with the MB Pro, which I bought in 2016, but the crisp feel of the MacBook keyboard is something I miss. It was, to me, just the right amount of feel the touch-typist in me liked to have. Prior to that, I was typing on an iPad and an MBP 2011.
In store, I was able to type faster on the MacBook keyboard than I could on the MacBook Pro keyboard. Only, owing to needing more power and residing in a hotter climate, I chose a notebook with fans - MBP.
I would hope, and do ponder if the 2018 top case would fit over the 2016/2017 top case, avoiding the need to completely re-engineer before manufacturing...? Just swap them out...
The 2018 cases may fit, but that depends on how they have managed to increase the battery size. If that has been done by reengineering the logic board size as well, we might have machines that look same externally but are very different internally, and hence, cannot just be retrofitted.
Hmmm... First of all, this view is very US-centric. I don't think in most countries (which make for the majority of Apple's profits) people sue companies for things you say (and even if they did, the chance of winning such absurdities is close to 0). Secondly, with Apple's resources, they could easily replace ALL faulty design they made. Instead, they usually replace very few things, only after a critical-mass pressure from customers (a.k.a. PR catastrophe on the horizon) and very often they replace the things with the same flawed parts. :-(
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Preferences like travel of the keys apart, people have complained about noise which is valid in some settings, but again subjective. However, the most important thing with these keyboards is the issue with reliability, that they are breaking very soon into the purchase and that is deeply concerning considering the price these notebooks come at, and even otherwise.
So, while people get used to the keyboard feel in any number of minutes, no one can ever get used to randomly breaking keyboards. You seem to have missed the point of contention in the thread.
Do you honestly think that your opinion represents the entire human population?
Let me tell you some news, it does not.
Keyboard: The new keyboard is way better, it just is. I have 2016 model and no problems whatsoever. Maybe it's because I'm not stupid and do not sit on top of my $2800 piece of hardware while eating..
Trackpad: What? Are you kidding me? The new trackpad is 100 times better. The old was just too small. Deal with it. I'm actually using the external trackpad which is even bigger and feels even better.
Ports: Maybe someone needs them, for me the only thing I'm connecting is external monitor, iPhone and Power. I like usb-c ports better than having 10 different ports and need of 10 different cables. But that is just me maybe, I like new and modern things. I would like to see usb-c in iPhone as well. Also I think at this point there is almost everything available in usb-c, so just buy new things and sell the old ones.
Touch-bar: Well I couldn't care less, I'm not using it much but I guess it's better than keys which couldn't do anything more since being physical keys.
Resolution bump? Care to explain more?
The only thing I agree with you is the price. Also for me 16 gigs is just not enough, another thing I hate in my specific machine. But apart from that this machine is the dream. Especially the new 15" 2018 (I own 13" 2016 in case anyone wonders).
Now as you can see I have different opinion on those new machines, also my view does not represent the entire population. I know that some people just hate these machines.
I can certainly see how it would appeal to some people depending on personal taste - if you’re a really confident touch typer and used to not second guessing if a key has registered it I can imagine it probably would be the fastest keyboard to type on
Yep it really depends on how extensively they have changed the internal layout - hopefully ifixit will have an answer to that in coming days too!
Coming from a country that is not USA, I am intrigued how my view came seemingly US-centric.
Yes, you are right, they replace few things, but in recent memory, the 2011 graphics fiasco is the one where faulty was replaced with exact time bomb. Other than that, they have replaced USB-C cables and some iPhone chargers and now the 6s batteries and a lot more, are you saying they were replaced with exact same faulty pieces? Point is, let us be a little less blanket and just see things from their point as well as our own. They are selling something - we are buying something. They are not forcing us to buy. We feel forced to buy because we really like what they offer, just sometimes at an indigestible price point, now even more so.
All that I am interested now is to know if from now on the repair of previous model keyboards will be replaced by this. Maybe this is the solution to the problems with that design. Time will tell, but I am rather hopeful than spiteful.
Well, when your product is so tightly spaced that it might not be an exaggeration to say that you have no room for error, there may not be any such thing as a minor edit. John Gruber said in a podcast that he sniffed a rumor from a source that the main issue happening with the 2nd gen switches was a change in the raw materials used in the fabrication of the switches making them more vulnerable to debris. The switches would look the same in that case, but could flex a little more than they're supposed to, leading them being more vulnerable to switches jamming.
I never spent more than a minute or two with the original MacBook keyboards so I have no idea how they felt in comparison to those on my 2016 MBP. I remember people complaining that they felt stiff and unresponsive. Perhaps they softened the compounds used to fabricate the switch to address user complaints and in turn created issues with jamming keys.
Getting a step closer to fully water proofing the keyboard area. No more blown laptops after spillage.