iFixit Tearing Down 16-Inch MacBook Pro Live

[Tech198]

I don't think we're ever going to be in a place where we can do more than upgrade the RAM.

And that is the next to go on the iMac---you know know they will rev the next iMac with a T2 and new cooling, so RAM will probably be upgradeable, but not user accessible (i.e., go to Apple and upgrade).

The upgradeability issue personally doesn't bother me, although I understand it is a huge deal for some.

I would even imagine Mac's that would never be able to upgrade any component anyone... It's probably heading that way but only a bit at a time.

This won' t get easier.. And if they keep using glue, then we're stuffed. Wasn't it iFixit said sometime ago they found it more difficult to get access to components due to the amount of glue used?

Apple analogy for unrepairability is always "not enough space"...

Well there reasons could be valid as they keep cramming other junk in at the same time as an reason.


Screw holes and support use much less space than a component does.. But they just like all this 'sensor stuff.'

 

[PickUrPoison]

Everyone complaining about soldered RAM in Apple laptops needs to realize that the LPDDR3 used for many years now is not available in a module. At all. It must be soldered to the logic board. There is no possibility to use modules with LP memory.

Only with the (reluctant) switch to desktop DDR4 on the 2018/2019 15” and this new 16” would it even possible to offer socketed RAM. But with Comet Lake gen 10 supporting LPDDR4X next year, Apple may very well return to using LP memory, which will be required to be soldered to the logic board.

 

[code-m]

"And also moves Apple out of the business of making computers and more into the business of making appliances. When's the last time you upgraded a component on your fridge?"

Or a car. I have a late model Jaguar. I can't change the oil myself or do basically anything.

That is the way of the world in 2019 for much of our technology.

Gnashing your teeth isn't going to make it any better or fix the problem, if it is a problem for you (and it clearly is).

I sympathize with your situation, but if you live in Hawaii or Alaska, it's not only computer repairs that are an issue---many products won't ship there or deals are not available. Not trying to be a Richard, but how is where you live Apple's problem? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Does a fridge or another kitchen or laundry room appliance have upgraded options, asking since I don't know which models you have the provide you that option from the start. Apple on the other hand provides upgrade options on they computers. If my appliance had the option to upgrade post purchase and I needed to, I would have no issue doing so. I have done minor repairs of my appliances on my own, some companies will sell you some repair components while others recommend to go through a certified repair shop. However my home appliances usually work for over 5-12 years without problems. So I ask which appliance model are you using that provides you the option at checkout to upgrade.

I do my own oil changes on my car from time-to-time, a manufacturer cannot force you by law to use they dealership or a mechanic that would make it illegal monopoly, even though they claim that the warranty may be void, which to my opinion is fear mongering talk considering you are able to fill up your car with fuel. You are entitled to use a mechanic to replace your vehicles oil, no one is stopping you from doing it yourself other than yourself.

That is some dystopian view you have of the world, I recommend that you have a voice for change so use it rather than accept anything any corporation pushes your way that you disagree with.

Apple is a Global company it is they business when they claim complementary year long or AppleCare repairs anywhere in the world. Rather than push your narrow-minded view of peoples situation relating to computing hardware how about being more understanding.

Computers as far back as a couple year or more have had user replaceable SSD, RAM, Battery, motherboard, Wireless cards, etc. Wireless tech does not change every few years and it depends on a supported router to utilize the provided benefit. SSD, RAM should be the least user replaceable items as peoples capabilities grow with their experience, interests and budget. What you are claiming is that people should disregard their budget go into debt to get the top spec machines to add more profits to a multi-billion dollar corporation rather than purchase while they needs and requirements grow along with their budget by upgrading what component is important to get their business done.

Nope lets just purchase a whole new computer rather than upgrade individual components, how environmentally friendly.
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Everyone complaining about soldered RAM in Apple laptops needs to realize that the LPDDR3 used for many years now is not available in a module. At all. It must be soldered to the logic board. There is no possibility to use modules with LP memory.

Only with the (reluctant) switch to desktop DDR4 on the 2018/2019 15” and this new 16” would it even possible to offer socketed RAM. But with Comet Lake gen 10 supporting LPDDR4X next year, Apple may very well return to using LP memory, which will be required to be soldered to the logic board.

How does that explain the lack of user upgradable post purchase DDR4 RAM on this new 16" MBP.
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I would even imagine Mac's that would never be able to upgrade any component anyone... It's probably heading that way but only a bit at a time.

This won' t get easier.. And if they keep using glue, then we're stuffed. Wasn't it iFixit said sometime ago they found it more difficult to get access to components due to the amount of glue used?

Apple analogy for unrepairability is always "not enough space"...

Well there reasons could be valid as they keep cramming other junk in at the same time as an reason.


Screw holes and support use much less space than a component does.. But they just like all this 'sensor stuff.'

I believe only Apple cares about the minuscule weight and thickness added by screws and slots for they marketing nonsense. Will anyone notice a 0.01 lbs weight increase or a few mm thickness increase. The battery maybe the heaviest component within a laptop and that is a crucial component of the device.
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2016 an unrepairable laptop computer something go's wrong with this after 3 years if you get apple care only mind you your toast. The cost of repair at Apple usually leads to the genius guy tell you "Cheap to Buy New".

Which seems counter-intuitive to the environmental claim. Most customers usually have little requirement to upgrade their computers every few year, as it last for a good 5-10 years. Apple makes less money from Mac hardware as the upgrade turnaround is longer compared to an iOS device, that is one of the reasons Mac hardware usually cost more, however it seems Apple maybe shifting iOS short turnaround upgrade cycles profits to offset Mac hardware. This is what I suspect is occurring.

 

[thevault]

Everyone complaining about soldered RAM in Apple laptops needs to realize that the LPDDR3 used for many years now is not available in a module. At all. It must be soldered to the logic board. There is no possibility to use modules with LP memory.

Only with the (reluctant) switch to desktop DDR4 on the 2018/2019 15” and this new 16” would it even possible to offer socketed RAM. But with Comet Lake gen 10 supporting LPDDR4X next year, Apple may very well return to using LP memory, which will be required to be soldered to the logic board.

Do you believe this is the only choice/design Apple had for ram? What's your answer for soldered SSD?

 

[PickUrPoison]

Do you believe this is the only choice/design Apple had for ram? What's your answer for soldered SSD?

Only? No, of course not. It is the best for battery life, reliability and saving space however.

re: storage, I think it’s a combination of size, performance, security, cost, reliability and margin. Here’s the NAND module from a 2016 MBP (the controller is located elsewhere on the logic board):

But lately, they don’t use a module at all. They solder down the raw NAND memory chips and the controller is just one of the many functions integrated into the custom T2 chip.

Sure, it would be nice to be able to upgrade the internal SSD, but that would not be without its own cost. Specifically, if Apple didn’t use SSD upgrades (at their relatively high prices) to increase ASP, they would simply raise the price of the entry level model to compensate. There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Does a fridge or another kitchen or laundry room appliance have upgraded options, asking since I don't know which models you have the provide you that option from the start. Apple on the other hand provides upgrade options on they computers. If my appliance had the option to upgrade post purchase and I needed to, I would have no issue doing so. I have done minor repairs of my appliances on my own, some companies will sell you some repair components while others recommend to go through a certified repair shop. However my home appliances usually work for over 5-12 years without problems. So I ask which appliance model are you using that provides you the option at checkout to upgrade.

I do my own oil changes on my car from time-to-time, a manufacturer cannot force you by law to use they dealership or a mechanic that would make it illegal monopoly, even though they claim that the warranty may be void, which to my opinion is fear mongering talk considering you are able to fill up your car with fuel. You are entitled to use a mechanic to replace your vehicles oil, no one is stopping you from doing it yourself other than yourself.

That is some dystopian view you have of the world, I recommend that you have a voice for change so use it rather than accept anything any corporation pushes your way that you disagree with.

Apple is a Global company it is they business when they claim complementary year long or AppleCare repairs anywhere in the world. Rather than push your narrow-minded view of peoples situation relating to computing hardware how about being more understanding.

Computers as far back as a couple year or more have had user replaceable SSD, RAM, Battery, motherboard, Wireless cards, etc. Wireless tech does not change every few years and it depends on a supported router to utilize the provided benefit. SSD, RAM should be the least user replaceable items as peoples capabilities grow with their experience, interests and budget. What you are claiming is that people should disregard their budget go into debt to get the top spec machines to add more profits to a multi-billion dollar corporation rather than purchase while they needs and requirements grow along with their budget by upgrading what component is important to get their business done.

Nope lets just purchase a whole new computer rather than upgrade individual components, how environmentally friendly.
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How does that explain the lack of user upgradable post purchase DDR4 RAM on this new 16" MBP.
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I believe only Apple cares about the minuscule weight and thickness added by screws and slots for they marketing nonsense. Will anyone notice a 0.01 lbs weight increase or a few mm thickness increase. The battery maybe the heaviest component within a laptop and that is a crucial component of the device.
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Which seems counter-intuitive to the environmental claim. Most customers usually have little requirement to upgrade their computers every few year, as it last for a good 5-10 years. Apple makes less money from Mac hardware as the upgrade turnaround is longer compared to an iOS device, that is one of the reasons Mac hardware usually cost more, however it seems Apple maybe shifting iOS short turnaround upgrade cycles profits to offset Mac hardware. This is what I suspect is occurring.

Does a fridge or another kitchen or laundry room appliance have upgraded options, asking since I don't know which models you have the provide you that option from the start. Apple on the other hand provides upgrade options on they computers. If my appliance had the option to upgrade post purchase and I needed to, I would have no issue doing so. I have done minor repairs of my appliances on my own, some companies will sell you some repair components while others recommend to go through a certified repair shop. However my home appliances usually work for over 5-12 years without problems. So I ask which appliance model are you using that provides you the option at checkout to upgrade.

I do my own oil changes on my car from time-to-time, a manufacturer cannot force you by law to use they dealership or a mechanic that would make it illegal monopoly, even though they claim that the warranty may be void, which to my opinion is fear mongering talk considering you are able to fill up your car with fuel. You are entitled to use a mechanic to replace your vehicles oil, no one is stopping you from doing it yourself other than yourself.

That is some dystopian view you have of the world, I recommend that you have a voice for change so use it rather than accept anything any corporation pushes your way that you disagree with.

Apple is a Global company it is they business when they claim complementary year long or AppleCare repairs anywhere in the world. Rather than push your narrow-minded view of peoples situation relating to computing hardware how about being more understanding.

Computers as far back as a couple year or more have had user replaceable SSD, RAM, Battery, motherboard, Wireless cards, etc. Wireless tech does not change every few years and it depends on a supported router to utilize the provided benefit. SSD, RAM should be the least user replaceable items as peoples capabilities grow with their experience, interests and budget. What you are claiming is that people should disregard their budget go into debt to get the top spec machines to add more profits to a multi-billion dollar corporation rather than purchase while they needs and requirements grow along with their budget by upgrading what component is important to get their business done.

Nope lets just purchase a whole new computer rather than upgrade individual components, how environmentally friendly.
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How does that explain the lack of user upgradable post purchase DDR4 RAM on this new 16" MBP.
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I believe only Apple cares about the minuscule weight and thickness added by screws and slots for they marketing nonsense. Will anyone notice a 0.01 lbs weight increase or a few mm thickness increase. The battery maybe the heaviest component within a laptop and that is a crucial component of the device.
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Which seems counter-intuitive to the environmental claim. Most customers usually have little requirement to upgrade their computers every few year, as it last for a good 5-10 years. Apple makes less money from Mac hardware as the upgrade turnaround is longer compared to an iOS device, that is one of the reasons Mac hardware usually cost more, however it seems Apple maybe shifting iOS short turnaround upgrade cycles profits to offset Mac hardware. This is what I suspect is occurring.

Like I said....Apple just isn't for you. Plenty of other options--PLENTY. Go get a nice HP that lets you switch out your RAM.

 

[code-m]

Like I said....Apple just isn't for you. Plenty of other options--PLENTY. Go get a nice HP that lets you switch out your RAM.

So you are okay with Apple having a monopoly on the user upgrade components of an SSD/RAM post-purchase, way to go. What if I like using macOS? Have any legal option to install it on my HP with user replaceable SSD/RAM.

I am sure that is what a shareholder wants to hear either pay the high price of one time upgrades or loose the sale completely. You must really be fun at parties, with that mentality.
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Only? No, of course not. It is the best for battery life, reliability and saving space however.

re: storage, I think it’s a combination of size, performance, security, cost, reliability and margin. Here’s the NAND module from a 2016 MBP (the controller is located elsewhere on the logic board):

View attachment 877820

But lately, they don’t use a module at all. They solder down the raw NAND memory chips and the controller is just one of the many functions integrated into the custom T2 chip.

Sure, it would be nice to be able to upgrade the internal SSD, but that would not be without its own cost. Specifically, if Apple didn’t use SSD upgrades (at their relatively high prices) to increase ASP, they would simply raise the price of the entry level model to compensate. There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.

non-retina MBA has a user replaceable right till it was discontinued from regular sales channels since mid/late 2018. It has excellent battery life, thin and light. Only issue was a non-retina or higher resolution display. Even the I/O ports were great for many users. I believe the 2015 and prior rMBP have user replaceable RAM/SSD and no problems of what some users are mentioning as a downfall of having slotted modules.

I honestly don't mind a little higher entry level insofar as the base storage is 128-256GB SSD with 8GB RAM. Anything lower is just an insult as those components do not cost much and the competition provide more for less. Just saying.

This is little to do with money and more to do with post-purchase consumer choice to upgrade they computer along with they needs and financial situation.

For example I can afford the new 2019 16" MBP fully loaded, however if I did not have the money I would get the base model and would like the option to upgrade the RAM and SSD when I do have the money and my needs grow, this is presently not an option. Would be nice to have an upgradable dGPU however most of those are a mess for Apple mobile solution, I am fine with the iGPU as I do not game, however a hybrid solution that Apple has would be better and I would opt for that if it was offered on the base or one up. Then again with eGPU I see this as less of a concern.

 

[PickUrPoison]

How does that explain the lack of user upgradable post purchase DDR4 RAM on this new 16" MBP.

My guess is it would require a lot of effort to redesign the logic board and relocate intervening parts to allow for reasonably convenient access to the memory chips. They would also have to make the changes necessary to accommodate a 260 pin SODIMM SMT socket, which are a minimum of 4mm in height.

That’s a lot of work to go through (twice) for a single model year, and then what do you have? A 15” MBP that starts at maybe $2,600 for the entry level model? (The price increase would be necessary to offset the loss of revenue/profit on RAM upgrades.)

That’s a higher price that everyone has to pay—even those who will never upgrade their RAM anyway—just so 10 or 20 or maybe 30% can upgrade somewhere down the line.

Also consider that for business use, it doesn’t pencil out to buy less (16/32) than you’ll need (32/64), with the thought of upgrading in the future. It’s cheaper for them to buy what they need for the next 3-5 years and be done with it. That gives the user the advantage of the better config for all those years before an eventual upgrade would have happened.

 

[Tech198]

My guess is it would require a lot of effort to redesign the logic board and relocate intervening parts to allow for reasonably convenient access to the memory chips. They would also have to make the changes necessary to accommodate a 260 pin SODIMM SMT socket, which are a minimum of 4mm in height.

That’s a lot of work to go through (twice) for a single model year, and then what do you have? A 15” MBP that starts at maybe $2,600 for the entry level model? (The price increase would be necessary to offset the loss of revenue/profit on RAM upgrades.)

That’s a higher price that everyone has to pay—even those who will never upgrade their RAM anyway—just so 10 or 20 or maybe 30% can upgrade somewhere down the line.

Also consider that for business use, it doesn’t pencil out to buy less (16/32) than you’ll need (32/64), with the thought of upgrading in the future. It’s cheaper for them to buy what they need for the next 3-5 years and be done with it. That gives the user the advantage of the better config for all those years before an eventual upgrade would have happened.

They may even get a new Mac by then anyway, so it could even be a wasted upgrade.. in the short term

 

[AppleTools]

Kind of interesting how this guy from iFixit recommends to go get a 2012 MacBook Pro instead of a 2019 because is more upgradeable... But the maximum ram you can get on a 2012 MBP is 16GB DDR memory with is pretty much the standard now and with modern faster and better memory... I believe even the basic 8GB models will perform better because the architecture of the whole machine than 16GB on an old 2012 MBP.

Plus you can't upgrade your graphics card on a 2012 MBP (well, you can but it is a lot of work and is expensive to swap chips) and what about the Retina display? you'll never be able to upgrade that either... Bluetooth, WiFi... old tech, upgradable? yeah but go find upgrades... Processors? nope... Speakers, trackpad? that's another no...

Basically the only thing you can upgrade and have a "better" machine is storage because you can pop in a couple of 2.5" SSDs (by removing the optical drive) and have quite a lot of space for a decent amount of money but besides that... nothing else would be better on a 2012 MBP than on a new machine. And storage is the easiest fix on any computer, just get an USB-C SSD external drive and you're done!

So why would anyone think a MBP from 2012 is better than a new one???

The guy praises the architecture, the design, components and everything in the machine but he still prefers a 2012 MacBook Pro... ridiculous...

 

[PickUrPoison]

non-retina MBA has a user replaceable right till it was discontinued from regular sales channels since mid/late 2018. It has excellent battery life, thin and light. Only issue was a non-retina or higher resolution display. Even the I/O ports were great for many users. I believe the 2015 and prior rMBP have user replaceable RAM/SSD and no problems of what some users are mentioning as a downfall of having slotted modules.
<snip>

The MBA has always had soldered RAM, in the first couple years not even Apple offered upgrades, it was 2GB standard/2GB max. 2010 brought the 4GB option but it was still soldered and not upgradable after purchase. Somehow everyone managed.

re: SSD, yes there was a removable module but in 2018 Apple started using soldered NAND chips with the T2 as controller, same as MBP. For likely the same reasons I mentioned for MBP: a combination of physical size, performance, security, cost, reliability and margin.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Kind of interesting how this guy from iFixit recommends to go get a 2012 MacBook Pro instead of a 2019 because is more upgradeable... But the maximum ram you can get on a 2012 MBP is 16GB DDR memory with is pretty much the standard now and with modern faster and better memory... I believe even the basic 8GB models will perform better because the architecture of the whole machine than 16GB on an old 2012 MBP.

Plus you can't upgrade your graphics card on a 2012 MBP (well, you can but it is a lot of work and is expensive to swap chips) and what about the Retina display? you'll never be able to upgrade that either... Bluetooth, WiFi... old tech, upgradable? yeah but go find upgrades... Processors? nope... Speakers, trackpad? that's another no...

Basically the only thing you can upgrade and have a "better" machine is storage because you can pop in a couple of 2.5" SSDs (by removing the optical drive) and have quite a lot of space for a decent amount of money but besides that... nothing else would be better on a 2012 MBP than on a new machine. And storage is the easiest fix on any computer, just get an USB-C SSD external drive and you're done!

So why would anyone think a MBP from 2012 is better than a new one???

The guy praises the architecture, the design, components and everything in the machine but he still prefers a 2012 MacBook Pro... ridiculous...

It’s a great seven year old computer, no doubt. But... it’s still a seven year old computer.

Reminds me of those who think the 2015 MBP is the end-all and be-all. Sure, as long as you don’t want any Thunderbolt 3 ports, don’t need to use a 5K (or the new 6K XDR displays), don’t need 32 or 64GB RAM, don’t need screaming fast PCIe SSD read/write speeds of 3Gbps/2Gbps, don’t need 6- or 8-core CPUs, don’t need 3-4 teraflop GPUs, etc. Yeah ports blah blah. Yeah keyboard blah blah. There are always trade offs, nothing’s perfect. PickUrPoison lol.

 

[FlyingDutch]

Pray tell how? The argument being made is that apple wants to control the OS experience so no upgradable parts....yet their other machines allow it. What does portability have to do with it?

hint.....Nothing


Warranty only covers what? a year?

Some of us use computers longer than apple supports them

My understanding is apple will not support battery replacements after 5 years even if I want to pay for a replacement.

I still use my 2012 mbp as a daily driver for example. Thankfully, I can replace the battery when it goes bad (as it has twice in the last 7 years)

Warranty is two years in a big part of the world (world doesn’t end in the USA, remember).
And two years ago I had the battery of my wife’s MacBook Air replaced by Apple. It was a 6 years old notebook.
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The notion that sockets introduce reliability issues is silly. If that was true, high availability servers and workstations would have soldered memory and storage which is clearly not happening. Real reasons are lower manufacturing cost and locking out users from cost competitive self upgrades. Historically, companies have gone as far as drilling out area of the system board to prevent self user memory upgrade. It's purely greed.

The argument about Apple being greedy is silly. Unless you are 15 years old.

 

[AppleTools]

It’s a great seven year old computer, no doubt. But... it’s still a seven year old computer.

Exactly, nice little old machines but with some age on top... Still some people think they are better than the new ones just because you can switch a few parts... I guess, as you say, they don't do anything else beside word processing and surfing the web...

I don't see people complaining about upgradable RAM on cell phones... because they were never upgradeable in the first place. Problem is that people is used to old tech and the way it was designed decades ago and tech change, some things can't be made modular anymore... bandwidth and energy requirements, physical space, costs, etc...

Remember the floppy! This guy just said "Apple could've fitted an SD card reader in the new 2019 MBP"... COME ON!!!

 

[Grey Area]

It’s a great seven year old computer, no doubt. But... it’s still a seven year old computer.

Reminds me of those who think the 2015 MBP is the end-all and be-all. Sure, as long as you don’t want...

Heh, I'm more into Thinkpads when it comes to laptops, but I think this mentality may be even worse there. Like clockwork, every new model year will turn the previous line into yet another "last true Thinkpad generation", and thus for each model year there is a vocal faction who will declare anyone mad who buys anything newer. I think the first last true Thinkpad is the 600X from 1998.

Silly people. After all, it is quite obvious that 2017 had the last true Thinkpads.

 

[femike]

Ports are one thing I would difinately like, eg HDMI, USB-A and SD card ports.

Also, Apple have reduced the price of RAM and SSD upgrades, but it needs to go alot further because these are impossible to upgrade once the machine is made. If they are sincere about the environment they would do this, or even better of course, to make them user-upgradable but Apple closed this door off for now.

 

[ionutc]

I am still an Apple user (i do not know how much longer...) that is trying to inform other people of the bad products Apple is actually releasing. And it is because users continue to buy the bad products they are releasing that they do not care to design better products.
It is great that they are finally and acknowledging the problems and fixing some of them. But truly, is beyond understanding how after 3 years of flowed design, people gets excited with this poor release.

The fanboys are people that bought the products and they worked well for them. You start with an iPhone or an iPad, maybe you get an iMac or a MacBook and you are happy with them - that's what makes you trust the brand. When they no longer work for you you get something else. Even Louis Rossman said people buy MacBooks despite of their flaws and everything has their ow disadvantages. Dell, Razer, Hp, Lenovo and any other manufacturer you can name have had issues at some point and people still buy them for al sort of reasons.

There are people here that can't understant that the vast majority doesn't upgrade their laptops. If you spec your new machine for your needs you can use it for at least 5 years which is significant. It's nice of you to think that you are opening people's eyes, but bad products don't make people happy.

 

[foreteller]

Wow, look at all these product engineers, sales analysts and marketing experts!

 

[Dovydas]

The fanboys are people that bought the products and they worked well for them. You start with an iPhone or an iPad, maybe you get an iMac or a MacBook and you are happy with them - that's what makes you trust the brand. When they no longer work for you you get something else. Even Louis Rossman said people buy MacBooks despite of their flaws and everything has their ow disadvantages. Dell, Razer, Hp, Lenovo and any other manufacturer you can name have had issues at some point and people still buy them for al sort of reasons.

There are people here that can't understant that the vast majority doesn't upgrade their laptops. If you spec your new machine for your needs you can use it for at least 5 years which is significant. It's nice of you to think that you are opening people's eyes, but bad products don't make people happy.

Yeah so it is just better to replace logic board when an ssd fails? Apples answer to everything these days.

 

[Tech198]

Kind of interesting how this guy from iFixit recommends to go get a 2012 MacBook Pro instead of a 2019 because is more upgradeable... But the maximum ram you can get on a 2012 MBP is 16GB DDR memory with is pretty much the standard now and with modern faster and better memory... I believe even the basic 8GB models will perform better because the architecture of the whole machine than 16GB on an old 2012 MBP.

Plus you can't upgrade your graphics card on a 2012 MBP (well, you can but it is a lot of work and is expensive to swap chips) and what about the Retina display? you'll never be able to upgrade that either... Bluetooth, WiFi... old tech, upgradable? yeah but go find upgrades... Processors? nope... Speakers, trackpad? that's another no...

Basically the only thing you can upgrade and have a "better" machine is storage because you can pop in a couple of 2.5" SSDs (by removing the optical drive) and have quite a lot of space for a decent amount of money but besides that... nothing else would be better on a 2012 MBP than on a new machine. And storage is the easiest fix on any computer, just get an USB-C SSD external drive and you're done!

So why would anyone think a MBP from 2012 is better than a new one???

The guy praises the architecture, the design, components and everything in the machine but he still prefers a 2012 MacBook Pro... ridiculous...

Ya, but not everyone needs or wants the best of the bunch either.. You may think it's ridiculous, but to me it makes more sense, as he is only going by "ability to repair" only.. He is from iFixit after all..

Yeah so it is just better to replace logic board when an ssd fails? Apples answer to everything these days.

Yep, easy for Apple, bad for customers (unless they are lucky still under warranty) but always focus on the bad points when it comes to repairing or not to repair..

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I don't miss those days, because I just upgraded my Dell Latitude with RAM and SSD. The battery pops off in seconds and I can put in a new one. Love the ports and the awesome keyboard.

Now THAT is the post of someone who understands what’s important to them and will only buy products that will meet those needs! Bravo!

 

[PickUrPoison]

Now THAT is the post of someone who understands what’s important to them and will only buy products that will meet those needs! Bravo!

If you don’t need/want MacOS, you can definitely get by cheaper with PCs running Windows, Linux or Unix. It’s been that way for decades.

 

[thevault]

Only? No, of course not. It is the best for battery life, reliability and saving space however.

re: storage, I think it’s a combination of size, performance, security, cost, reliability and margin. Here’s the NAND module from a 2016 MBP (the controller is located elsewhere on the logic board):

View attachment 877820

But lately, they don’t use a module at all. They solder down the raw NAND memory chips and the controller is just one of the many functions integrated into the custom T2 chip.

Sure, it would be nice to be able to upgrade the internal SSD, but that would not be without its own cost. Specifically, if Apple didn’t use SSD upgrades (at their relatively high prices) to increase ASP, they would simply raise the price of the entry level model to compensate. There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.

It's great for Apple but the user gets screwed and for me I'll stop using Apple products even though I prefer MacOS. The new society cognitive ability is turning into blobs where they will be dependent on replacement instead of repair/upgrade and that's not just for computers.

Not sure how long this post will be up since the MR "moderator comrade" has been removing anything related against Apple that I post.

 

[Peperino]

new machine for your needs you can use it for at least 5 years which is significant. It's nice of you to think that you are opening people's eyes, but bad products don't make people happy.

And that is why Macbook sales were going down in the last 3 years. I do not think people were actually happy with any of the designs 2016+ (worse Apple product ever designed).
And that is why Apple decided to change the keyboard after 3 years. Otherwise, why would Apple change even care to change it? Bad reviews and people voting with their wallets and not buying the product as expected is what make Apple change somethings.

 

[RogerWilco]

And that is why Macbook sales were going down in the last 3 years. I do not think people were actually happy with any of the designs 2016+ (worse Apple product ever designed).
And that is why Apple decided to change the keyboard after 3 years. Otherwise, why would Apple change even care to change it? Bad reviews and people voting with their wallets and not buying the product as expected is what make Apple change somethings.

I am the dinosaur still using a 17” 2011 MBP. Last week the AMD GPU failed (those “reliable” solder joints lol) and I looked seriously at the new 16”. My decision was to keep the 17” (disabled the GPU in terminal) and wait until next year to see what they do with the iMacs.