iFixit Tearing Down 16-Inch MacBook Pro Live

[Macbookprodude]

What is the point.. the repairability score will be less than 2.. As always!

Also, another negative against it - Apple takes away user upgradability, meaning if you want 64GB later on, you are stuck with what you buy.. Nope, I will still stay with my 2012 upgradable MacBook Pro with 16GB for my purposes.
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replaceable / up-gradable Memory and SSD would be fantastic - but not likely

Not with today's Apple.. 2012 was the last of the upgradable models.. which is why I paid 500 for mine..
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I would have no problems with a thicker MacBook Pro case that allowed for replaceable RAM - and preferably a replaceable SSD. It's not like the older models which had both were all that thick.

Apple would have to increase certain clearances to accomplish this, but it's not like they'd have to add significant weight. I'd be fine with a 3.5 pound 13" laptop which had the overall dimensions of a 2010-era MBP.

Gone are the days of upgradable ram and hard drive, plus battery replacement.. 2012 MacBook Pro here still going strong and I am seeing these jump in price given they were the LAST of the upgradable Macs before all this soldering stuff.
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The only reason why Apple solders RAM and SSD is the price. 450$ to upgrade from 16 to 32GB for something that costs $55 as a retail price. This is such a damn good business for Apple and the one and only reason - same story for SSDs. Tim wants your money, that’s all.

Its called corporate greed.

 

[Macbookprodude]

This guy said 2013 Macbooks had removable RAM?

What planet was that on?

Only 2012 non-retina and lower had removable ram.. Anything after 2012 non-retina is soldered.. and I stand convinced that soldered is a waste.. sure, buy an 8GB retina and can't upgrade to 16 or 32 later on ? Apple can shove it and Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs.

 

[Dovydas]

Only 2012 non-retina and lower had removable ram.. Anything after 2012 non-retina is soldered.. and I stand convinced that soldered is a waste.. sure, buy an 8GB retina and can't upgrade to 16 or 32 later on ? Apple can shove it and Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs.

Customer is at a disadvantage even before starting to think about a Mac laptop.

maybe you don’t need extra storage and ram right now, but you could if your job changes for example - more money to Apple. ssd fails you can’t just replace it - more money to Apple. Next time you will buy Apple care - more money to Apple.
at no point in this scheme customer is at an advantage, you can’t even go to other brands because most are doing exactly the same.

 

[mikzn]

Not with today's Apple.. 2012 was the last of the upgradable models.. which is why I paid 500 for mine..

Yes the 2012 was and is a great laptop 👍 - bought mine new in 2012 and upgraded it to max out the mem to 16g and I put a fresh SSD in every time I upgrade the OS because the SSD's are inexpensive now. It is runnning Catalina just fine and runs like a top

That said my main driver is a rMBP i7 mid 2015 which I bought with a 256g SSD and upgraded the SSD (2 years ago) to a Samsung 970 Pro 512g - this noticeably improved performance and the rMBP runs cooler - I will probably swap out the 500g for a 1Tb soon.

IMHO as good as the mid 2012 is - the 2015 was the best rMBP that can still be upgraded (SSD only)

Strangely, I do not have a PHD in electrical engineering and do not design GPU's and other computer components for a living, but I was able to swap out the SSD in the 2015 rMBP in about 15 min

 

[Macbookprodude]

Customer is at a disadvantage even before starting to think about a Mac laptop.

maybe you don’t need extra storage and ram right now, but you could if your job changes for example - more money to Apple. ssd fails you can’t just replace it - more money to Apple. Next time you will buy Apple care - more money to Apple.
at no point in this scheme customer is at an advantage, you can’t even go to other brands because most are doing exactly the same.

Well the other factor is in Ukraine everyone mainly is poor.. Our nation is poor nation and I am a security guard at the government which is why I can afford some of Apple's stuff. As of now, my 2012 MPB has 16GB of memory which it had 8Gb. I may add a 2TB hard drive and or another 2 TB for raid.. can't do that on a 2019 16 inch hunk of junk, right ? I agree with everything you say. Customer is at a disadvantage and you bring up a good point - business changes, and needing to keep up with demands - if you buy the 16 inch with 16GB and later need 64gb ? Why not just insert the memory yourself ? Apple doesn't care about us, they just want money.. greedy corporation.
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Yes the 2012 was and is a great laptop 👍 - bought mine new in 2012 and upgraded it to max out the mem to 16g and I put a fresh SSD in every time I upgrade the OS because the SSD's are inexpensive now. It is runnning Catalina just fine and runs like a top

That said my main driver is a rMBP i7 mid 2015 which I bought with a 256g SSD and upgraded the SSD (2 years ago) to a Samsung 970 Pro 512g - this noticeably improved performance and the rMBP runs cooler - I will probably swap out the 500g for a 1Tb soon.

IMHO as good as the mid 2012 is - the 2015 was the best rMBP that can still be upgraded (SSD only)

Strangely, I do not have a PHD in electrical engineering and do not design GPU's and other computer compnents for a living, but I was able to swap out the SSD in the 2015 rMBP in about 15 min

I did some research on the core i7 using in the 2012 and it seems it can support 32GB - has this ever been tried ? Also, if I want to get a 2-4TB SSD could I upgrade to that ? Right now I have a 1TB.

 

[dukebound85]

The Mac mini, iMac and Mac Pro are not portable devices that are meant to be carried or taken from place to place on a daily basis. Your argument is non-sensical.

Pray tell how? The argument being made is that apple wants to control the OS experience so no upgradable parts....yet their other machines allow it. What does portability have to do with it?

hint.....Nothing

DO you know how much is for a battery replacement ?
According to Apple website the out-of-warranty repair is 209€ for MacBook Pro 16" and 139€ for MacBook Pro 13".

Very far from the price of a new MacBook Pro.

But complaining here is cool, isn't it ?

Warranty only covers what? a year?

Some of us use computers longer than apple supports them

My understanding is apple will not support battery replacements after 5 years even if I want to pay for a replacement.

I still use my 2012 mbp as a daily driver for example. Thankfully, I can replace the battery when it goes bad (as it has twice in the last 7 years)

 

[Dovydas]

Well the other factor is in Ukraine everyone mainly is poor.. Our nation is poor nation and I am a security guard at the government which is why I can afford some of Apple's stuff. As of now, my 2012 MPB has 16GB of memory which it had 8Gb. I may add a 2TB hard drive and or another 2 TB for raid.. can't do that on a 2019 16 inch hunk of junk, right ? I agree with everything you say. Customer is at a disadvantage and you bring up a good point - business changes, and needing to keep up with demands - if you buy the 16 inch with 16GB and later need 64gb ? Why not just insert the memory yourself ? Apple doesn't care about us, they just want money.. greedy corporation.
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I did some research on the core i7 using in the 2012 and it seems it can support 32GB - has this ever been tried ? Also, if I want to get a 2-4TB SSD could I upgrade to that ? Right now I have a 1TB.

I’ve been to Kyiv many times. I like Ukrainian people a lot. Small world huh

 

[Santabean2000]

What are you talking about? SSD and RAm are fixed in the slots, they don't move and nobody is taking them out and putting them back in 200 times a day. This forum is one goddamn echo chamber detached from reality.

Agreed. After 7 years of daily use, not once has my socketed RAM, SSDs (yes, plural), or battery ever come loose. Not once. Ever.

 

[mi7chy]

The notion that sockets introduce reliability issues is silly. If that was true, high availability servers and workstations would have soldered memory and storage which is clearly not happening. Real reasons are lower manufacturing cost and locking out users from cost competitive self upgrades. Historically, companies have gone as far as drilling out area of the system board to prevent self user memory upgrade. It's purely greed.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I’ve been to Kyiv many times. I like Ukrainian people a lot. Small world huh

Yeah man small world indeed.. we are in the news a lot, but very few of us can buy Apple if you are working in Govt or security which I do. Yes, Kyiv is nice, but because I am only Ukrainian speaking I live in Lviv which is nice city also, not a lot of crime here. And we are far away from East Ukraine.

anyway, 16 inch MB Pro has its flaws and mainly it’s not upgradable with memory or SSD.
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The notion that sockets introduce reliability issues is silly. If that was true, high availability servers and workstations would have soldered memory and storage which is clearly not happening. Real reasons are lower manufacturing cost and locking out users from cost competitive self upgrades. Historically, companies have gone as far as drilling out area of the system board to prevent self user memory upgrade. It's purely greed.

sounds like a lot more on here for upgradability with growth compared to soldered. Sorry while the 16 inch is nice, it had its faults.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

"Almost as fast as latest models." - not even remotely true, especially for graphics.

I chuckled at this one, too. But within that statement is a truth. MOST people’s needs are well within the capabilities of 7 YEAR OLD hardware! If a 2012 laptop has what they need in a system, why upgrade or even consider it? Because they just want a shiny new thing? Because they simply MUST give Apple more money?

I think someone has said it before, there’s an entire generation who came of age when Apple was primarily focused on making computers FOR them. But they’re not the target demographic anymore, nor are they even a significant number of the non-targeted demographic. To go from being catered by, to being ignored by, Apple is not something that will go down easy and they will be bitter to the end. There’s really nothing that can be done about it because Apple left those folks behind loooong ago.

The final nail will be when the mac is discontinued.

 

[LuciusWrong]

RAM, SSD and ports at least. Like it was for many years. Schematics available for everyone and ability to buy parts, so we and/or reputable electronics repair shop could DO AN ACTUAL REPAIR.

If your priority #1 is repair, buy a Lenovo...as Rossmann likes to say. I'm not being snarky...I've been contemplating doing just that up until the launch of this machine. You can make it into a hackintosh if you need MacOS, which I assume you already know.

Lenovo's machines are designed for "enterprise", where function comes first. It is a completely different design focus, with completely different requirements.

Apple's whole deal is aesthetics first. Make a pretty box, and see what they can cram inside.

The point of previous comments in this thread is that Engineers are very disciplined. They make design choices consistent with the desired final product, even if they don't personally agree with those choices.

I don't agree with all of Apple's design choices, but with the new keyboard, I will be happy to continuing using a Macbook, because I would rather put up with their design choices than use Windows every day. (I can't deal with their iOS...hardward is impressive, but that OS is like nails on a chalkboard to me! And I don't understand airpods and apple watches.... But I use a macbook.)

The larger point is that there is a "philosophy" behind every design, and sometimes you need to literally become a philosopher to understand what choices they made and why they made those choices. The design is not "bad", because in many ways their products are a marvel of engineering!

But you are free to decide if that is what you want...and it does kind of suck when it is sort of what you want, and sort of not at all what you want...

 

[Macbookprodude]

I chuckled at this one, too. But within that statement is a truth. MOST people’s needs are well within the capabilities of 7 YEAR OLD hardware! If a 2012 laptop has what they need in a system, why upgrade or even consider it? Because they just want a shiny new thing? Because they simply MUST give Apple more money?

I think someone has said it before, there’s an entire generation who came of age when Apple was primarily focused on making computers FOR them. But they’re not the target demographic anymore, nor are they even a significant number of the non-targeted demographic. To go from being catered by, to being ignored by, Apple is not something that will go down easy and they will be bitter to the end. There’s really nothing that can be done about it because Apple left those folks behind loooong ago.

The final nail will be when the mac is discontinued.

I agree with this.. I had PowerPC back years ago and my 2012 MacBook Pro still runs fast and great computer it is. Exactly, one day Mac will be discontinued - apple’s bread and butter is iPhone tablets and iwatch.. we will see how the new Mac Pro sells which is beyond reach of most - 6000 is my salary in Ukrainian money and most here are poor.

it’s sad and a disgrace that Apple no longer cares.. gone are the days of upgradable laptops and computers. With Apple it’s about money and not about the consumer.

 

[mikzn]

I did some research on the core i7 using in the 2012 and it seems it can support 32GB - has this ever been tried ? Also, if I want to get a 2-4TB SSD could I upgrade to that ? Right now I have a 1TB.

I honestly don't know the answer to a 2012 support of 32gb - 16g is what I thought was the upper limit?

16g does everything I need it to do on both MBP 2012 and rMBP 2015 - I always felt having a SSD that is 40% larger than what I really need is the best money spent on an upgrade.

When I upgraded the memory on the 2012 I did not see any performance increase - I am sure it will have better benchmark scores but 16g works fine for me

Same for the SSD - my understanding is that a 2 -4 tb SSD drive is possible - but I don't have a need for more than 1tb - I keep all my video files, photo files and other media ( music etc ) on separate external drives not on the MBP's

Sorry not much help

 

[CrazyForCashews]

Since when has Apple been soldering their SSDs?

 

[Macbookprodude]

Since when has Apple been soldering their SSDs?

Hi, since the 2014 or 2015 Mac book pro I think.. I think it’s a disgrace that Apple closes off upgradability. I see the new Mac Pro as a failure given the price and the 16 inch MacBook Pro for paying premium to Apple. Gone are the days of diy upgrading.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Customer is at a disadvantage even before starting to think about a Mac laptop.

maybe you don’t need extra storage and ram right now, but you could if your job changes for example - more money to Apple. ssd fails you can’t just replace it - more money to Apple. Next time you will buy Apple care - more money to Apple.
at no point in this scheme customer is at an advantage, you can’t even go to other brands because most are doing exactly the same.

That's exactly my issue with it..

One could reasonably buy a normal 1TB option right now and have some reason to need much more internal storage just a few months on and their only option is "buy a new machine"

(external is not viable for many use cases - and it's a PITA)

 

[dantroline]

I personally think Apple is using a BUNCH of old keyboard parts they had. That’s why they didn’t update the camera.

Interesting thought. Lateral thinking, and I wouldn't put it past them.
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Also, another negative against it - Apple takes away user upgradability, meaning if you want 64GB later on, you are stuck with what you buy.. Nope, I will still stay with my 2012 upgradable MacBook Pro with 16GB for my purposes.
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Not with today's Apple.. 2012 was the last of the upgradable models.. which is why I paid 500 for mine..
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Gone are the days of upgradable ram and hard drive, plus battery replacement.. 2012 MacBook Pro here still going strong and I am seeing these jump in price given they were the LAST of the upgradable Macs before all this soldering stuff.
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Its called corporate greed.

Without trying to sound like the 1980's (640kb ought to be enough for anyone), you prove the point. Your 2012 MBP works for your needs and all subsequent MBP's have increased specs, the latest by a long margin. I reckon RAM is not the issue anymore, nor is HDD space. Cloud storage and fast ports make a lot of these problems irrelevant.

Upgradeability for me now means the hope of a future where distributed computing becomes easy, cheap and transparent at OS level. I want to plug my laptop into the desktop machine when I am at home and harness the extra CPU's and RAM if I want, for example.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Self-serving: having concern for one's own welfare and interests before those of others.

Seems to me that most who wants to repair the products themselves are putting their own interest before Apple employees, shareholders and some customers.

Is...that bad?
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Lol.

You have every right to "repair your product."

You can take it to Apple or an authorized repair center for a fix or replacement parts.

Nobody is stopping you from going to take your product to be repaired.

if it can’t be repaired, you can buy a replacement, you know, as with everything else.

I believe the original comment was made because the "right to repair" "movement" is agenda driven, misleading and couched as an almost civil rights issue.

It’s 2019. Things aren’t like they were in 2005. The old days of diy with spare parts is over.

Just like disco and hair metal. And, unfortunately, grunge.

Can you elaborate on what the misleading agenda is? While I wait for your response, I'll grab you a nice boot to lick.

ETA the wording of my post was changed to "self-serving" by a moderator with no notice to me

 

[Zdigital2015]

Hi, since the 2014 or 2015 Mac book pro I think.. I think it’s a disgrace that Apple closes off upgradability. I see the new Mac Pro as a failure given the price and the 16 inch MacBook Pro for paying premium to Apple. Gone are the days of diy upgrading.

The 2012 15” Retina MacBook Pro was the first Iteration of the Retina line and the first to have soldered DRAM and Flash Storage standard via a proprietary SATA SSD blade and slot. Subsequent 13” and 15” Retina MacBook Pros continued to have soldered storage and moved to a PCIe SSD via a different proprietary blade and slot. Apple began soldering the Flash Storage alongside the DRAM with the introduction of the 2016 13” and 15” MacBook Pros.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Only 2012 non-retina and lower had removable ram.. Anything after 2012 non-retina is soldered.. and I stand convinced that soldered is a waste.. sure, buy an 8GB retina and can't upgrade to 16 or 32 later on ? Apple can shove it and Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs.

Yeah, that's what I thought. When he said he could remove the RAM from his 2014 MacBook, I was wondering what color the sky was on his planet, 'cause it wasn't Earth.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Yeah, that's what I thought. When he said he could remove the RAM from his 2014 MacBook, I was wondering what color the sky was on his planet, 'cause it wasn't Earth.

It was the Nexus Of Somnus all I know is the day of upgradable Apple notebooks is over.. this will not go well for Apple. The Mac Pro will flop why ? Because it’s out of reach for most of us, and 999 for the monitor stand ?? This is so stupid. Because the 2019 MacBook Pro 16 inch does not allow upgrades only at time of purchase, it too is a dead end - I stand correct on all accounts.

 

[jlocker]

The notion that sockets introduce reliability issues is silly. If that was true, high availability servers and workstations would have soldered memory and storage which is clearly not happening. Real reasons are lower manufacturing cost and locking out users from cost competitive self upgrades. Historically, companies have gone as far as drilling out area of the system board to prevent self user memory upgrade. It's purely greed.

Well servers go in racks in computer rooms. Laptop get bounced around in every day life. Stuff falls out when it gets dropped on the floor.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Well servers go in racks in computer rooms. Laptop get bounced around in every day life. Stuff falls out when it gets dropped on the floor.

I'm sorry, but is this nonsense.
There are loads of laptops out there with socketed SSD's and RAM.

Before 2016, Apples own units were like that.

There is no concern with "reliability issues" with a socketed SSD or RAM, even on a laptop.

 

[dfelix]

Then mention that there are repair programs available and allow others to make their own decisions - leave the bias-laden comments out of something that is meant for public consumption.

Mentioning the repair programs is fact, and that's good, but comments like "it's garbage" are not fact and should be omitted.

Repair programs do not help those who are outside of territories that have repair programs. If my MacBook. goes bad, I'd have to be without it for at least two months if that, assuming that they will honor the repair. Not to mention the cost of sending it back to mainland US in my case.

If it is easily user repairable, those 2 months of downtime are literally hours.

Also, I could buy whatever configuration I would like now and then upgrade down the line if I wanted or needed to. I could actually use the computer that would be adequate for my needs for longer amounts of time. One would think that a company that claims to be so advanced on the ecological forefront would be all in favor of having less technological waste, would it not?

Sure there are. Reliability, performance, security, among others.

That's some good Koolaid

Apple know the few moving or movable parts in a device the fewer points of failure. This makes the device more dependable, meaning it requires less repairs which is the opposite of what drives iFixit

And also moves Apple out of the business of making computers and more into the business of making appliances. When's the last time you upgraded a component on your fridge?