If the new keycaps are easier to take off, as stated in the iFixit article, doesn’t that mean that dust issues can now be fixed by just taking the cap off and cleaning the switch, without needing a top case replacement?
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iFixit Tests Silicone Membrane on 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard With Dust Exposure
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You will probably have an easier time convincing Apple to allow users to change their default apps.
Might be a little hard to clean them now that they are covered with a silicone membrane.
Really hope this is true. The 2016-17 keycaps were breaking rather easily if one tried to remove them. Especially the spacebar.
True, although one of those little vacuums with a tiny nozzle and a steady hand might be able to get in through those holes in the top of the membrane without tearing it. Perhaps.
If its about what most people want, I believe most people wanted USB-A ports and lower prices. In this case, we have thinner for thinner, not for a reason or function. Also PRO users are not after thin and light-weight, for that we have the MacBook or Air. Pro is for PRO users...which means heavy usage, push hardware to max.
I had two 2012s, one I used a kb cover on and never had a problem. I gave that one to a relative when her old machine croaked. Too bad, LOL.... the 2012 I kept didn't have a cover, eventually something messed up the L key, I popped it off to have a look and somehow managed to break it, never had that experience before when removing a keycap so... anyway mea culpa but now the j and k keys don't work too well, meanwhile neither do the d and f keys sometimes, so go figure. I must have rolled dust or cat hair or something in there somehow, anyway I'm about ready to ship the thing in for a bottom case replacement at my own expense since it's a drag parking a wireless kb over top the 2012 kb to use it as a desktop machine...
Bottom line next time I have two laptops the same model, I will most certainly also have two kb covers. File under "for lack of a nail..."
Everyone has his own opinions, but you must be in the minority, most people prefer the "depth feel" of key travel and the sturdier non sticking keyboards. I rather have a working keyboard than a flimsy "Faster" one. If these were with no issues then I might say its personal preferences.
Do not forget, those are new and not time tested. They only have been 1 year on the market. We must wait and see in 3-4 years how well will they be doing.
If I’m not mistaken, which I’m not, the low-profile butterfly keyboards have been around since 2015 in the MacBook and 2016 for the Pro, meaning the fourth year is just around the corner. Time tested it seems. It’s likely the 2018 update is going to be a good one.
This explains why they pulled support for eGPU over TB2 – customers would go back to usable Macs with that had usable keyboards, no silly touch bars, normal USB and mmm... magsafe.
Big-up Samsung for laughing at the no 3.5 headphone jack!
Apple design used to be useful, and not a mouse with a recharge cord on it's bottom.
At this rate Apple wireless charging will only work with devices face-down.
One bad Apple...
Btw, i sold my 15" Touch Bar aSap, and got an older Mac instead – much more usable, much less annoying.
Big-up Samsung for laughing at the no 3.5 headphone jack!
Apple design used to be useful, and not a mouse with a recharge cord on it's bottom.
At this rate Apple wireless charging will only work with devices face-down.
One bad Apple...
Btw, i sold my 15" Touch Bar aSap, and got an older Mac instead – much more usable, much less annoying.
"most people prefer the "depth feel" of key travel"
Most? Is that the result of a survey? Or an opinion of yours?
And, btw...My keyboard does not stick nor is it flimsy. It does work exceptionally well, though.
Since I'm speaking from personal and direct experience with respect to my 2017 MBP, I suspect you are as well. Which model and how long have you been using it?
I also like my 2016 keyboard but I prefer the 2015. It's not a showstopper. It does feel less quality and less key travel compared to my 2015 work MBP and 2011 MBP. It doesn't help that at home I type on a mechanical keyboard on my PC. I notice I tend to hit the 2016 keys harder innately expecting similar travel to the 2015 MBP, so I develop more fatigue compared to my 2015 in a much shorter time. Perhaps if I used the 2016 exclusively, I might adapt to it better.
In terms of accuracy, mechanical kb > 2015 > 2016.
In terms of speed, mechanical kb = 2016 > 2015.
I had a Dell laptop that had a few keys become useless so to a small amount of sand.
Really nobody has ever considered that, as it probably is, it's not "Apple obsession" to make things thinner and lighter (they usually go together) but that the great majority of Apple's users simply have different priorities than some people on this forum?
Here's how I see the entire issue.
Right now, there is a lot of blowback from the self-styled professionals that Apple has lost its way. However, what they fail to recognise is that the Mac also exists to help push Apple's mobile devices and wearables forward. As such, it is inevitable that the Mac has to evolve. It cannot stagnate forever as what some users might prefer. That is its destiny.
Apple has their own vision of how they would like their products to be consumed, and sometimes, in order to attain this desired end user experience, it entails certain sacrifices. And depending on your own needs, some sacrifices may be easier or harder to swallow than others.
Which then begs the question - did Apple screw up with the latest MBP? While there have been missteps (like the whole keyboard issue), my belief is that Apple is simply taking a very big bet on the future of the Mac. I mentioned earlier (either here or in some other thread) that Apple wants to make their products more personal, which isn't always about specs in a vacuum, and Apple is willing to sacrifice virtually everything that made the Mac great in the first place (such as MagSafe, the glowing Apple logo, traditional ports) in the hopes that they can make it better (based on whatever their definition of "better" entails).
This will definitely rankle the established professionals, who have come to rely on a certain set of tools working the way they have always worked, and don't appreciate Apple (or anyone else for that matter) upsetting their carefully-stacked deck of cards. Does this make them wrong? No, and to some extent, I have come to empathise with their plight. Apple's current product lineup is working very well for me, but I do wonder if there will come a day when they decide to give up on the iPad and focus on the next big thing that simply doesn't resonate for me.
Did Apple screw up? I think that a distinction should be made between the keyboard failures (which was supposedly due to a defective component) and its overall intent / design (which is to enable a thinner form factor). Likewise, USB-C is versatile enough to cover pretty much every use case (with the right adaptor) and so I see the logic behind replacing MagSafe with it. Laptops still need to be carried around, so any attempts at making it thinner and lighter is always welcome (can you imagine the outage if Apple made a laptop as thick as the Acer Helios 500 with that terrible a battery life?). In the same vein, Apple is hoping the touchbar can enable new experiences the same way Force Touch did for the iPhone 6s.
Is Apple making the right call here? That's why I say that Apple is making a very risky bet here, and that's precisely what I love about Apple. Whether Apple ends up being right or wrong in the end, that's the Apple I know.
I love the so very cheerful way you say "your opinion is different from mine so it doesn't matter."
Because they wanted to make a thinner, lighter notebook. I think it’s perfectly clear.
Btw, for me, the 2015 keyboard was mushy.
All the reviews and comments are complaining about the key travel as a "negative" and not a positive" Also Apple's "fix program" and addition of the silicon layer is good sign that they too agree that there is a design flaw in these keyboards.
I tried one out a little bit, it seems like something you can used to but is it better than the older keyboards?
not sure. I have yet to meet a heavy "typer" that prefers less key travel in any keyboard. In fact, many prefer the old mechanical ones.
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not really, I am saying this because most the reviews, critics, and commentators on forums do not see the shorter key travel as a positive.
Again, everyone has different preferences. Some like bigger mouse pad, others smaller mouse pad. Some wanted larger iphones (phablet), others were demanding a smaller form 3.5 inch screen. Some people feel USB-C fills all their needs, others refuse to upgrade because they want their USB-As and SD card slots.
I wouldn't put too much stock into what MacRumors appears to think. The ones who don't like it are way more likely to make noise, especially on a place that's a magnet for gripes like MacRumors. There are even plenty of people here who like it. They just don't post about it constantly.
I happen to be one of those who likes the new keyboards better than the old ones and I'm even a very fast typing mechanical keyboard snob, but if I were to give you my honest opinion as to what I think most people would say, I'd bet the vast majority don't have a strong enough opinion either way to really care. As a keyboard enthusiast, I find that modestly depressing, but that indifference is what I encounter time and time again when I show people my collection of mechanical keyboards only to get bewildered looks in response as to why anyone would be possessed to own so many keyboards and such expensive keyboards.
To most people, all of us who are passionately "2015 scissors forever" or "butterfly or die" are absolute weirdos and people you don't want to sit next to on public transit.
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I'm not the only one who has weighed in here on the new keyboard resulting in faster and more accurate typing.
I certainly don't understand why that bothers you so much. Weird.
Apple has sold at least 25 million MBP with the new keyboard in the last two years. But a few dozen or few hundred complaints on MacRumors convinces some that everyone hates it.
There’s nothing wrong with preferring the 2015 keyboard, but it won’t be coming back. Apple’s not going to go back to a thicker form factor. The next platform refresh next year or in 2020 will find the MBP to be a smaller, thinner and lighter machine.
There’s nothing wrong with preferring the 2015 keyboard, but it won’t be coming back. Apple’s not going to go back to a thicker form factor. The next platform refresh next year or in 2020 will find the MBP to be a smaller, thinner and lighter machine.
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A lot of factors go into how people respond to a keyboard. Personality, body dimensions, posture, and environmental conditions such as the surface the keyboard is placed on all will influence how someone responds to a keyboard. A keyboard is highly suspect to ergonomic factors so it's really hard to predict what a good typing experience is going to be for another person. This is why keyboard enthusiasts tend to own an embarrassing number of keyboards. We keep hearing about someone else's perfect keyboard and we want it for ourselves so we buy it and it's nice, but not perfect so we move on to the next one.
I like the butterfly keyboards better than the old scissor keyboards, but they're not helping my accuracy. It's not hurting it much either though.
True that. Many here who hang out on MR or other tech forums believe their views about Apple products are the final word and representative of Apple's market in general. That is so narcissistic!
I had to skim 10 pages and this was the closest we came to I hate sand! Disappointed y'all.
Fully on topic, it sounds to me like one is still just fine keeping one's distance from Apple. They seem too deep into this butterfly keyboard to back out now, which is a real shame. Doubling down on bad design out of pride seems like a bad move. Hopefully a proper full redesign from the ground up is not too far off.