Nice try? You're the one with the strawman argument about USB ports. I never ONCE mentioned anything about USB ports. I'm talking about a manufacturing/engineering defect. Do pay attention next time.
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iFixit Tests Silicone Membrane on 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard With Dust Exposure
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The worst thing about the MacRumors forums, and indeed any Mac forum online these days, is people like yourself. Here's what I'd like to pound into your skull with a hammer: Apple has not started doing anything. They have continued designing products in the same exact way they always have. They have continued valuing design above all else. They have continued aggressively adopting new standards and dropping older ones. None of this is new, nor will it ever change. It is key to what the Mac is as a concept. It's what sets them apart from other laptop manufacturers.
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"I wish Apple would do the thing that nearly killed them in the 90s." How is this post anything but a troll?
And I’m talking about pros and cons in totality, and ultimately making a choice.
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Blame Apple for claiming to produce the best computers out there
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Oh goodie goodie, I will finally be able to afford an MBP, even second-hand!! Hahaha
What percentage of Apple's profit were Mac sales in the 90's again?
Apple could easily license out macos today without hardly any impact on their bottom line and may even make money while doing it
To compare directions taken in the computer industry to the situation of 20+ years ago is a stretch. Apple at that time was struggling to compete with the cheap PC market, and Amelio decided to go in a direction that would compete in that market - that ultimately failed, as a market overwhelmingly saturated by Microsoft felt no draw to Apple's offerings at the time. By way of reminder:
http://lowendmac.com/2006/beleaguered-apple-bottoms-out-1996-to-1998/
In that world, devoid of internet connected mobile gadgetry and phones, and where Apple's prime competitor was Microsoft PCs, it was critical for Apple to differentiate itself as a viable alternative to MS PCs. Microsoft, in the 90s, was more worried about its server offerings in being competitive with Unix - and increasingly Linux - than it was with Apple. That was the main reason for the release of Windows NT around 1994. GUI based OS's like Windows only began to be taken seriously by MS with the release of Windows 95/98, right about the time Apple hit rock bottom. Jobs came back to Apple and made the Mac and its OS a high quality GUI offering in comparison to MS comparatively slip-shod Windows offerings. Serious IT folks, until the mid-90s, still used command line based systems for the most part. PCs, DEC VMS, and Unix offerings at the time were largely command line oriented - DOS for PCs (and a primitive Windows 3.1), X-Windows for workstations manufactured by DEC and SUN. Apple offered the first high quality desktop GUI OS, based on BSD Unix. Combine that solid system with high quality Mac hardware, and voila - the Apple success path was defined.
That was a totally different world from today, where even on this forum, you have people claiming that desktops and laptops are history, to be supplanted with tablets and smartphones. I don't ascribe to that, though I think a large segment of mostly younger people actually do. Most of Apple's profits come from the mobile gadgets, and they are consequently concentrating more on that market. It is becoming harder - again - for Apple to differentiate itself as an alternative to the PC world, with the great improvements not only in PC hardware over the last 5 years, but also in the robustness and diversity of both Windows and Linux as cheaper but viable offerings. That's roughly how I see it, and if Apple loses market in the desktop/laptop area, the main tragedy will be in the loss of MacOS - especially for people who have been using it for decades for their workflow. That is why I suggest licensing the OS to other hardware manufacturers (high end PC hardware is MUCH higher quality than it was 20 or even 10 years ago, and is becoming competitive with Apple hardware). This is why there's been a rise of the Hackintosh crowd, and probably explains why Apple is reinstituting the T2 chip in its latest hardware offerings. Call me a troll, or whatever, that's how I see it. This is a forum for expressing opinion on Apple directions and products, so there is mine.
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Sincere question: did I stumble onto some kind of Berenstein/Berenstain situation? Have I been transported into an alternate universe wherein Apple has a decades-long reputation for making purely utilitarian products? Because that's the only way any of your "opinions" are even remotely defensible.
There is not 1 advantage to these keyboards over the 2015 ones. Why did they make them? I don't know. Time to swallow the pride.
They are a significantly thinner mechanism. My (admittedly very hopeful) theory is that the new keyboards, plus all the development they've done with the Touch Bar/T2 chip, is a precursor to a keyboard where every key cap is a small OLED display, similar to the old Optimus Maximus concept. But it's more likely that they just made it thinner for the sake of being thinner, since it's absolutely indisputable that most people in the market (regardless of your personal opinions or anecdotal experiences) prefer thinner and smaller devices where possible.
Whaaaaat? Not the same chip. At all. Care to share a reference to your claim?
Cliff notes of the past 9 pages please... I'm still running an early 2010 13" MBP.
Can I pick up a 2018 plus a silicone keyboard protector and be good for the next 8 years? Or do I need to upgrade the RAM again on my 2010 and keep using it until the next complete re-design?
Can I pick up a 2018 plus a silicone keyboard protector and be good for the next 8 years? Or do I need to upgrade the RAM again on my 2010 and keep using it until the next complete re-design?
THEY'VE LOST ME!
I went into the Apple Store in Anchorage yesterday to buy the 2018 MacBook Pro 13". I was committed to the purchase way before I walked in the door. But a casual glance at the ports on the MacBook caused a pivotal revelation. The ports on their flagship line are only Thunderbolt 3. And NOTHING else. This is unbelievably shortsighted to the point that I'm certain Apple has lost its way. There are ZERO compatible ports on this new machine. I can't plug my iPhone into it, I can't plug my thumb drive into it, I can't plug a peripheral into it, I can't plug anything but the power cord into it. Really? This is the FLAGSHIP? I need to carry an external dongle to plug anything into my flagship Apple? That's ridiculous! I didn't buy the MacBook. Apple has lost their way. I've made the decision this morning to give up on Apple. I just ordered a new Microsoft Surface Pro a few minutes before writing this. Too bad Apple, you're your own worst enemy.
I went into the Apple Store in Anchorage yesterday to buy the 2018 MacBook Pro 13". I was committed to the purchase way before I walked in the door. But a casual glance at the ports on the MacBook caused a pivotal revelation. The ports on their flagship line are only Thunderbolt 3. And NOTHING else. This is unbelievably shortsighted to the point that I'm certain Apple has lost its way. There are ZERO compatible ports on this new machine. I can't plug my iPhone into it, I can't plug my thumb drive into it, I can't plug a peripheral into it, I can't plug anything but the power cord into it. Really? This is the FLAGSHIP? I need to carry an external dongle to plug anything into my flagship Apple? That's ridiculous! I didn't buy the MacBook. Apple has lost their way. I've made the decision this morning to give up on Apple. I just ordered a new Microsoft Surface Pro a few minutes before writing this. Too bad Apple, you're your own worst enemy.
Good! If you don't like Apple's design decisions, please don't buy Apple products! Don't be like the rest of these morons, who inexplicably demand Apple to build products unlike any they've ever made.
Apple used to make "it just works" products. That was the slogan. This foundation is what won over a generation of PC converts (such as myself). It was solely for utility, as I certainly couldn't play games on any of it. I was trying to avoid the blue screens of death my PC was experience. So - I got an iMac, then it was natural to get an iPhone, MacBook Pro, Apple TV, and iPad.
It was and could still be utilitarian. Those items have historically held enough resale value to keep my cost in line with competitors. The problem is that the keyboard of the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro is defective. I have two 2016s and now on second 2017 all regarding keyboards. For $649 I can get a Dell with discrete graphics. Prime Day featured a 6" OLED LG V35 phone for $599. All of a sudden, it didn't sound so bad. Since I'm done with my MBP, why not get an Android phone? Free two year warranty. No need to purchase AppleCare.
To pay $1500 for a laptop, problems should be resolved fully and immediately.
I agree with almost all here except the last paragraph. The issue is Apples keyboard update wasn’t an upgrade in performance nor reliability. It’s was a downgrade which I think is very un-Apple/Steve regardless of mentality. I love and hate the arrogance of Apple.
I am in the process of trying to find reference to the original T chip which was definitely in some of the early Intel MBP's (1,2) and/or (1,3). The first Intel MBP(1,1)didnt have the problem, as it didn't have the T-chip. I can't yet find references on the internet to those, but know from experience that MBPs from 2007-2008 had the chips and would not install linux, at least as of 6 years ago. I had a friend who bought a used MBP (1,2) or (1,3) and who used the same procedure I used to install Linux (using rEFInd) on a (1,1). It would not work. This was about 6 years ago and we found out about the T(some number)-chip in those versions of MBPs. Apparently the new Macs with the T-2 chip have a means of disabling "secure boot", which will allow installation of Linux. That wasn't the case in 2007-2008.
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...acos-windows-support-t2-chip-secure-boot.html
The original T(some #, maybe not "2, don't remember) chip was used to help implement secure boot, which guaranteed that only "blessed" systems could be installed. Those systems were OSX and MS Windows installed via Bootcamp. The issue really didn't come up until people tried to install Linux on some of these older Intel MBPs - generally after Apple no longer provided OS updates for the machines. I also don't remember why Apple decided to remove the chips on machines manufactured after 2008, but they did. My guess is that, as implemented ten years ago, the use of the chip was deemed overkill. Hardly anyone back then wanted to install Linux on Macs. The link above documents the new generation T-2, and yes, secure boot can be turned off to allow Linux installations. Linux kernels have also become more sophisticated in dealing with UEFI boot in the last 10 years. Back then (2007-2008) only Macs were using UEFI, so Linux boot loaders only worked with MBR BIOS machines. PCs began implementing UEFI around 2011, and Linux can now load onto UEFI machines as long as secure boot can be disabled. Secure Boot is the primary "security feature" provided by T-2. I stand corrected that Linux won't install on the new Macs, as secure boot can be turned off by the user. That is also the case for PCs with UEFI. I'll continue to find documentation on those early Intel Macs, but ten years ago there was very little said or published about it. It didn't affect many machines, and only people trying to install Linux on one of those boxes would run into the issue.
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That's barely 1.5 years from now. It will cost $600 in 1.6 years. In late 2020 I will plan to re-sell this computer with no more coverage. Based on my previous experience, the keyboard will not be working at that time. What is my best move at that time?
Please look up the word "utilitarian" before writing any more posts, you clearly don't know what it means.
It is objectively an upgrade in terms of the size of the mechanism. The fact that it's defective and flawed doesn't make it not an upgrade. The last new car I bought had a defect in the ECU software, that didn't change the fact that it was better than my prior car (don't worry, they patched it).
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You are thinking of something else entirely. The T2 chip is the successor to the T1, which was introduced in 2016.
Once again I agree with some but not all. I am not talking about the whole machine just the most important mechanical piece. Reduction of functionality is not an upgrade in any way, shape or form. When keys don’t work it can’t be. I am glad your car was fixed, too bad the unlucky owners of this flawed design don’t have that luxury.
This looks like a spam post to me. Yeah I get it your a newbie poster but where have you been the past 2 yrs? No internet connection? Lol the ports are not new lol
For you, perhaps.
For many others, such as myself, there are two major advantages. The keyboard in my 2017 MBP results in far greater typing speed and typing accuracy.
I’d never go back. It’s that good.
Good post. I think there are two industries at play. One is the computer industry and the other is the toy industry. 10% of Apple's revenue now comes from people who are interested in computing. The rest (iPhones, iPads, iPods, etc) are toys / data consumption devices, or adjuncts, not suitable for primary commercial grade/scale data processing or content creation.
What this shows is that popularisation of electronic devices has resulted in a huge expansion of the information consumption market, whereas the creative market has already been discovered and has been saturated for quite some time already. I think this is a nod to the mackintosh community that their desire to free to software from the hardware is a legitimate one.