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They probably don't want you to make music or burn it to dvds anymore- just buy stuff on their itunes store.
Without idvd or garageband, it's a useless upgrade for me.
No, they want you to purchase Logic instead.

I have a 40GB that still works from a decade ago. You are not supposed to use hard drive for other purposes than just installation and copying files. Hard drives can last just as long as DVDs. It’s far easier to scratch a dvd than to scratch the platter in the hard drives. You can also simply back up the hard drive to another hard drive or have the company send you a replacement for a fee just as you can with DVDs.
And it's far easier to drop HDs so your $1200 sw is DOA. It always depends on how you take care of your stuff. I have thousands of CDs/DVDs, and none of them is scratched; obviously I do not throw them around my desk either.
 
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iDVD is a great program. I hope they integrate it's features and cool themes with a new app rather than toss it all away!
 
Agreed about facial recognition. It is just good enough to be tempting to use, but, not good enough to really automate the process-- very frustrating. It works OK with certain people, especially people over 40, but, not well at all with children.

YMMV. The first pass I made through iPhoto with facial recognition it picked up most of the current pictures of me (over 40) and matched photos of me from scanned family photos from my childhood. Does a remarkable job distinguishing my 3 kids, who look a lot alike, after a few iterations of "teaching" it.
 
Have you heard of a computer called the MacBook Air? :rolleyes:!
Yes. Are you also aware that it isn't going to run the kind of software that I was pointing out in my post. Also they do offer an external superdrive for that.

You are not going to be running pro apps on an Air.
 
Exactly how are people going to install Apple software like Aperture or Final Cut? Or re-install the OS?

Well when I have to update my iPhone OS, the download is now inching toward 1 gb. OS X is now about 6 gb before compression. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future you simply have a passcode to download the OS from Apple's new server farm. If you want to back up your data, you'll back it up online. After optical drives disappear, the next computer component will be hard drives. It looks like the Air was way ahead of its time.
 
iWeb?

Yeah ... truthfully? I'm not sure why so many people keep trying to use iWeb for any major web site work? I think it's good when you need to slap something together in minutes. (My kid's grade-school teacher uses it occasionally to put photo galleries up of the projects they've done in class, for example.)

But if you're really using it for "professional" sites people pay you to build or maintain? Why not look into buying a copy of RapidWeaver? Unlike iWeb, RapidWeaver allows all sorts of plug-in extensions sold by 3rd. parties, and it's just as easy to use as iWeb.


Lastly, I'd like to see the whole LP creation and other media creation as part of iLife. Mobile apps sound good except iWeb on iPhone would be quite challenging. I would like something where I can check on the sites and maybe even republish remotely from my desktop at home since iWeb's sites are so unreliable sometimes. Although, it might be because i'm using consumer software to create professional websites.

Anyway, can't wait for iLife & iWork 11 - hopefully with iPhone iWork apps :)
 
iTunes has been not part of iLife for some time, but "never say never." It was indeed one of the original iLife apps in the first several iterations and included up through iLife '05.

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-M9779LL-A-iLife-Mac/dp/B0007GCZ46/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1286281717&sr=8-1

I stand corrected, it hasn’t been a part of iLife since ’05.


No, they want you to purchase Logic instead.


And it's far easier to drop HDs so your $1200 sw is DOA. It always depends on how you take care of your stuff. I have thousands of CDs/DVDs, and none of them is scratched; obviously I do not throw them around my desk either.

Of course, it always depend on how you take care of your stuff. By using your own words, the hard drive will last as long as the DVDs.

DVDs aren’t going to be the standard for 15 years as long as the packages are exploding in size every year, the move to blu-ray will help greatly of course but not until the market adopts it. People said the same thing about tapes 15 years ago and now most data centers are already moving toward hard drives instead of tapes. Eventually it’ll be cheaper to sell the package on the HDD than DVDs.

There’s no point to dragging this on, i didn’t say that hard drives will be the standard, it’ll be offered as an alternative to the massive dvd sets.
 
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Well when I have to update my iPhone OS, the download is now inching toward 1 gb. OS X is now about 6 gb before compression. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future you simply have a passcode to download the OS from Apple's new server farm. If you want to back up your data, you'll back it up online. After optical drives disappear, the next computer component will be hard drives. It looks like the Air was way ahead of its time.

For smaller downloads maybe, but not for things like FCS - especially on metered internet services.
 
80GB External drives are being sold for 30-40$ at most. I’m sure they can offer it next to the 10 DVDs package or something that’s offered for Final Cut for 40$ more. Far easier and faster to install from an external drive than 10 DVDs. A lot of huge packages are starting to come in the external drives instead of 10 DVDs.

A 500GB usb 2 drive is around $50.
 
Yes. Are you also aware that it isn't going to run the kind of software that I was pointing out in my post. Also they do offer an external superdrive for that.

You are not going to be running pro apps on an Air.

That doesn't change the solutions they provided in the Air to compensate for no optical drive. The external option being one of those solutions.

So what is it you don't understand about how Apple could build computers without optical drives while still providing solutions to do the things people need and want to do with them when they have already done this? Just because the MacBook Air isn't powerful enough to run FCS etc. doesn't mean that the solutions they provided are void.
 
What?

iTunes have never been a part of the iLife suite and it have absolutely nothing to do with iLife except for media browser type of deals.

It was originally in iLife but has since been removed. I guess we're both right. Or wrong.
 
Apple isn't necessarily thinking how do we facilitate the creation of dvds so people can make home videos and share them with friends - they're going to the root - what's the best way of distributing videos - right now, upload to the internet is much faster and much more widely used then DVD burning.

ah, yeah, the best way for me to share a 50 minute movie of my newborn baby is to upload to the net? No. Not even close.

I have nothing against iDVD but like i said earlier it wont disappear, support will still be available for 3 years or so and iDVD will not disappear from your apps.

Yeah, iDVD is still there. But there are enhancements yet to be made to this software. Is iDVD multi-core aware? Does the iMovie to iDVD round trip not include a transcode to MPEG4 H.264 and then another transcode to MPEG2? These items should be corrected.

In other words, they might be replacing the software with something that does that job better, and the job is not creating DVDs, the job is distributing media in a beautiful way - maybe we will see the an app in iLife that was rumored before about making something like the Movie extras, with menus and other content - similar to iDVD but then its to upload or stick somewhere else or on your apple tv or on your iphone or ipad

I'm with you here. I need something to create final finished product. an iTunes LP style thing would be cool. I also need it to be "press button" dead simple. Not every consumer I send media to (think grandma) is tech savvy.

that's why i pay them, to think for me and show me what i want, cause i don't know.

not gonna touch that one :rolleyes:
 
No, they want you to purchase Logic instead.

I've never understood why the iLife apps don't carry the same names and code base as the pro apps, just with an introduction level of features. So once someone gets hooked on one of the iLife Apps they can just move up the the chain.

I don't mean dumbing any of the them down, just that the iLife versions would start with the most understandable and commonly useful bit of the workflow of each app family. After all if they are rebuilding the core of each family for 64bit and other snow leopard and iOS goodness why not make it all build on itself to shorten the next part of the task.
 
iDVD and Apple infallibility

Funny how Apple chooses to drop support for the only other app than iMovie that I even care about.

GarageBand -- it is mostly there for the Cool factor. I love music but I don't make music. Cool--but useless to most of the washed masses.

iWeb -- wonderful for the wannabe geek. Even in 2010, most people do not create their own Web sites. We use FaceBook, YouTube, Linkedin, etc. And if you are a truly a geek, you don't use iWeb. I use Dreamweaver being geekier than most.

iDVD -- yes, it should just be a module of iMovie (always should have been). If Apple doesn't want to support Blu-ray on religious grounds, let others do it as a plug in. If you have kids, you want your memories to be archived on physical media, not uploaded for all to see on a public website which could be sunset at any moment. You really expect YouTube to be running in 50 years with all of your uploaded cat videos still intact? I'd rather take my chances I can get an optical player that will still work and play back my DVD and BDs, thank you.

Look--Apple and Steve Jobs don't know everything. They have great sense of what works and what doesn't -- and impeccable TASTE, but sometimes they back things that don't work. Round mice? iPod Shuffle with no controls? No one is perfect. But Apple doesn't even talk to users. They go with their guts. When you are smart and talented that can work very well but sometimes you miss big when you ignore user's needs.

Jobs is remarkable for not just what he approves of but what he disapproves of. In this way, he tries to make the future happen, not just predict it like the industry. He is wishing BD to be irrelevant---it hasn't happened yet but his wish carries a lot of command. He is wishing DVDs to be obsolete, even though they still serve an invaluable need among us mere mortals.

When he wished floppies to die, my team was still using them to move small files around; and honestly, it was a pain trying to figure out how to work around them. Zip drives thrived as a replacement; I bought CD burners. Only after several years was I really able to send small files around to others easily (basically grunt-force emails), and today, USB thumb drives have filled that niche because even today, physical media of some sort is invaluable.

I expect my DVDs and CDs to be useful decades after my HD storage has died and been replaced multitudes of times. Big HDs and the cloud are wonderfully convenient and are increasing trends but some form of physical storage is going to stick around, even if it is wads of disposable thumb drives.
 
iDVD -- yes, it should just be a module of iMovie (always should have been). If Apple doesn't want to support Blu-ray on religious grounds, let others do it as a plug in. If you have kids, you want your memories to be archived on physical media, not uploaded for all to see on a public website which could be sunset at any moment. You really expect YouTube to be running in 50 years with all of your uploaded cat videos still intact? I'd rather take my chances I can get an optical player that will still work and play back my DVD and BDs, thank you.
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I expect my DVDs and CDs to be useful decades after my HD storage has died and been replaced multitudes of times. Big HDs and the cloud are wonderfully convenient and are increasing trends but some form of physical storage is going to stick around, even if it is wads of disposable thumb drives.

I agree with most of your post but the optical media DVD thing...I agree with Apple's unspoken philosophy that these are dying technologies.

We had stacks of home videos (some even imported from VHS) and photo slideshows that I had meticulously iMovied with titles and transitions and soundtracks, burned to iDVDs with beautiful menus and backgrounds...and guess what. Nobody ever watched them.

After I got the Gen-1 :apple:TV, all this fruitless work stopped immediately. I simply started copying the raw footage off our various digital movie taking devices right into iTunes, and meticulously tagged as a TV Show called "Family Home Movies" with each year serving as a "season." Now all these videos are readily available on the :apple:TV and everybody scrolls through them with ease and watches them all the time! Plus they are syncable to everybody's iDevices and easily backed up across several hard drives and cloud services. Every couple years when the hard drive fills up, I buy a new one with twice the storage at half the price and keep on filling it. I predict sending each of my kids of to college one day with some future high capacity iGadget filled with a complete copy of all their family memories.

I don't see that hard drives are inherently less reliable than discs. They each have their achilles heels. You'd want to keep backups of either kind of storage, and hard drive backup workflow is readily automated vs keeping archives of discs. And as you say..."if you have kids" then you also know that kids + discs is a recipe for damage and loss. The odds of multiple simultaneous hard drive and cloud failures deleting all your media at once is slim.

As storage capacity increases, prices go down, bandwidth improves, cloud storage capacity grows...surely the future is that media of all types will be "stored somewhere" but can be watched anywhere. The new :apple:TV has started to simulate this with its streaming model, Home Sharing, and Airplay (almost to a redundant and reiterative self-referential fault).

What I do wish Apple would do, if they are phasing out iDVD, is provide a more seamless workflow for management and categorization of personal video content across devices. Steve always demos these beautifully filmed "home movies" of kids snowboarding, fishing, and so on, iMovies them into Hollywood features, then uploads to YouTube. But the iLife suite is goofy in how it handles video locally, which is probably what most people actually want to do instead of, or at least in addition to, YouTube.

Videos from cameras, even iPhones, get imported into iPhoto, but then do not intuitively sync back across to :apple:TVs or other iDevice video libraries. The user has to know how to move their videos into iTunes, which itself has no category or obvious tagging scheme for "Home Video." The average Joe would not necessarily figure this out. Just this morning my wife (finally) downloaded the >1000 photos & videos off her iPhone 4, then made an album in iPhoto of what she wanted to keep on her iPhone, and correctly told iTunes to sync that album. The videos weren't there at all, completely confounding her. As I tried to explain the process she should have followed with iTunes, her eyes just glazed over. This is not the way the "it just works" :apple: ecosystem should function.

ETA: How about a dialog that pops up, or a System Preference toggle, that asks if the user wants video from cameras to be imported into iTunes? iDevices should have the option (or default behavior) of moving videos shot on the device into iTunes.app instead of the Photos.app, then syncing back to computer iTunes just as a purchased video would (Voice Memo.app essentially works this way for its audio recordings). And for crying out loud, Apple, PLEASE add a "Home Video" tab to the iTunes sidebar. They are not TV Shows or Movies! I've provided feedback on this all the way back to iTunes 5 or 6. I don't really want my kid's birthday party categorized with "Iron Man 2" or "The Office" (although the TV show thing actually works as a pretty good kludge for my family).
 
I've never understood why the iLife apps don't carry the same names and code base as the pro apps, just with an introduction level of features. So once someone gets hooked on one of the iLife Apps they can just move up the the chain.

Probably because the programs by in large do not share much with their pro counterparts ans other products are.

iMovie shares nothing in terms of use that compares to Final Cut Pro - the only program that does is Final Cut Elements.

Logic has little to do with GarageBand - The program that Apple offers that does is logic elements and it is very different program.

The iLife apps are completely different things and are not meant to have direct analogues with the prosumer versions.
 
On the issue of installing software and copying music/movies without a disk drive. Am I the only one that avoids disks as much as possible already? If I can't immediately download an application I'm considerably less interested in purchasing it. I can think of only two pieces of software I bought this year that came on physical media and one of them was Logic. I've downloaded about 18GB of software just since yesterday (some Adobe demos and Steam games) and I hardly have the best connection in the world. I'm ready for physical media to die.
 
On the horizon

I am quite surprised that few posts here mention the delivery of software on media other than CD/DVD.

Jobs has made it quite clear that we ain't going to see Blu-Ray on Macs. Digital delivery is the Apple-preferred way. This is backed up by the massive data centre under construction in the USA.

Broadband internet, gaining in speed all the time, is the obvious method for future delivery. Even creaky old BT are rolling out 20meg at their exchanges. Virgin offer 50meg connections in some areas.

Apple have always been a year or two ahead when it comes to things like this. The floppy drive disappeared on Macs well before most people thought it would. Who could argue they were wrong to do so? Digital cameras came along and you could soon no longer fit an image file onto a floppy. We needed CD writing capabilities. iMovie/iDVD meant we needed DVD writing soon afterwards (Still back in the day of the 2nd gen iMac).

Our trusty CD was next in the firing line. iTunes Store showed the future well before the record companies were ready to accept it. Stop for a second and think how big your CD rack would be if all of your tunes were not downloaded? IKEA would have dedicated CD rack shops!!

Standard Def Movies on DVD's soon died and we can now own TV Show episodes via iTunes. Internet speeds and technology allow us to download HD content. 1080p content will arrive, eventually.

Apple are simply doing what they have done for the past 10 years. They are staying 1/2 to 1 full step ahead of the game.

It appears that they have skipped over Blu-Ray and i think they will kick CD/DVD in to touch quite soon as well. As the cost of flash memory drops, the overall savings of delivering software will fall. USB3 and/or LightPeak devices will be the next step and the final nail in the coffin for software on CD/DVD.

As internet speeds increase, the attraction of electronic delivery also increases. The ISP's will need to change. They will have to if they want to survive.

Electronic delivery of Music, then Movies, then TV Shows and Mobile Phone Apps brought savings to all involved. The creators don't have the production and distribution costs. We benefit as well with lower prices. How much of the final price for Logic Studio covers the fancy box, manuals, DVD's and logistics around the world? Digital delivery also ticks the boxes for their Green credentials.

Digital delivery of major software is just over the horizon.

The CD/DVD/Blu-Ray is dead. In fact, other than the user and the computer, everything physical is dead or dying.
 
I am quite surprised that few posts here mention the delivery of software on media other than CD/DVD.

Jobs has made it quite clear that we ain't going to see Blu-Ray on Macs. Digital delivery is the Apple-preferred way. This is backed up by the massive data centre under construction in the USA.

Broadband internet, gaining in speed all the time, is the obvious method for future delivery. Even creaky old BT are rolling out 20meg at their exchanges. Virgin offer 50meg connections in some areas.

Apple have always been a year or two ahead when it comes to things like this. The floppy drive disappeared on Macs well before most people thought it would. Who could argue they were wrong to do so? Digital cameras came along and you could soon no longer fit an image file onto a floppy. We needed CD writing capabilities. iMovie/iDVD meant we needed DVD writing soon afterwards (Still back in the day of the 2nd gen iMac).

Our trusty CD was next in the firing line. iTunes Store showed the future well before the record companies were ready to accept it. Stop for a second and think how big your CD rack would be if all of your tunes were not downloaded? IKEA would have dedicated CD rack shops!!

Standard Def Movies on DVD's soon died and we can now own TV Show episodes via iTunes. Internet speeds and technology allow us to download HD content. 1080p content will arrive, eventually.

Apple are simply doing what they have done for the past 10 years. They are staying 1/2 to 1 full step ahead of the game.

It appears that they have skipped over Blu-Ray and i think they will kick CD/DVD in to touch quite soon as well. As the cost of flash memory drops, the overall savings of delivering software will fall. USB3 and/or LightPeak devices will be the next step and the final nail in the coffin for software on CD/DVD.

As internet speeds increase, the attraction of electronic delivery also increases. The ISP's will need to change. They will have to if they want to survive.

Electronic delivery of Music, then Movies, then TV Shows and Mobile Phone Apps brought savings to all involved. The creators don't have the production and distribution costs. We benefit as well with lower prices.

Software will follow this route, It has already started!
That's still far out in the future.

I guarantee you that iLife '11 and Mac OS X 10.7 will be delivered via CD/DVDs.
 
Download all apps? *chuckle*

For something like OS re-installs, maybe USB drives. For everything else, downloads, probably. That seems like a logical course of action. But then again, a lot of people don't like to use logic when they make decisions.

You've never installed Final Cut Studio, I'm guessing.
 
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