Man, I just cant find 179,769,313,486,231,590,772,930,519,078,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 byte RAM sticks.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iLife '11 Still 32-Bit
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Man, I just cant find 179,769,313,486,231,590,772,930,519,078,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 byte RAM sticks.
Are the iLife apps intensive enough to benefit from 64 bit?
you must never have used iMovie or iPhoto with a 30+ GB library.
Because Apple made the decision not to port the legacy Quicktime library to 64 bit but didn't really give us anything to replace it. QTKit(Apple's cocoa api for quicktime) is comically underpowered, doing anything but the most BASIC of editing is out of the question. Even when you do compile it in 64 bit it just spawns a 32 bit process to do most of the work(and sometimes that process fails to communicate properly with the main thread and you get some pretty nasty bugs).
If I was Apple I would be embarrassed to have that API but they show 0 interest in improving it. The API is essentially unchanged from the Tiger days. I guess it works for iOS which is the only platform Apple actually seems to care about nowadays.
Nope try again!
Quicktime is still 32 bit. Quicktime X(which if you will notice has very basic capabilities compared to Quicktime 7) is written in something called QTKit which is distinct from the legacy quicktime API. The thing is, and I've said this a billion times, the QTKit API can only really do basic splicing of movies, no special effects, no tuning, nothing. And even then Apple doesn't actually document how to do any sort of transcoding(you actually have to save the quicktime presets then pass that file along as an NSData object to the QTMovie export function, you wouldn't believe how long it took me to figure that one out due to Apple's craptacular documentation)
iLife isn't going 64 bit until at least Lion, and maybe not even then. Apple introduced QTKit back in Tiger and in the subsequent 5 years it's hardly changed at all(a little got added with Leopard and almost nothing with Snow Leopard). Even when you write an application in QTKit in 64 bit all Apple does is spawn off a separate 32 bit process that handles most of the work(though to be fair the 64 bit process handles a little bit more in SL than it did in Leopard, but not that much more).
No wonder video editing companies and users are abandoning the mac in droves. Everyone here blames Adobe for not making their stuff 64 bit but in reality it's Apple's fault. It's just easier to write 64 bit stuff for Windows than it is for OS X.
rolmfao @ pty
This thread started out as typical bore and snarkiness and anti apple jibe fest at mac rumors with Aiden Shaw and bubba satori making their late appearances to talk down on the plebes and proles and berate lazy apple but luckily there's been some intelligent posting lately, and above above all lot of good humour.
The bad thing is that this site is hosted on a mere 2048 bit os server and it's about to collapse unless we invade Steve's office and get back all the little 32 bit chunks he's been stashing away from each and every one of us, in a jar, under his desk, nibbling at them one by one whilst talking to facetiming with ive (who's in the next office) of his over his humble 32x ichat client, 32 teraflops.
This thread started out as typical bore and snarkiness and anti apple jibe fest at mac rumors with Aiden Shaw and bubba satori making their late appearances to talk down on the plebes and proles and berate lazy apple but luckily there's been some intelligent posting lately, and above above all lot of good humour.
The bad thing is that this site is hosted on a mere 2048 bit os server and it's about to collapse unless we invade Steve's office and get back all the little 32 bit chunks he's been stashing away from each and every one of us, in a jar, under his desk, nibbling at them one by one whilst talking to facetiming with ive (who's in the next office) of his over his humble 32x ichat client, 32 teraflops.
Not all Adobe CS5 applications for OSX are 64-bit either. If you actually used them, as opposed to just reading about it on Teh Intarwebz and using it for forum troll bait, you might know that.
Kinda takes the wind out of the sails of all that snark, doesn't it?
Sorry, sometimes I forget, you don't even own a Mac... (Did everyone already know that about Aiden?)
Let me get this right. Does or doesn't quicktime handle said functions for imovie as the previous poster said? And if the qtkit does only basic stuff, what part does other functions? Is it imovie itself or a some legacy quicktime apis? I am confused because I am largely ignorant on these matters, I don't expect that you explain them to me of course, I am just making conversation. If qtikit was introduced in tiger, was it even applied to anything back then and what was used instead of that, because I was under the impression that quicktime x was built from the bottom up for sl, I wasn't aware it was written on something dating as back as tiger.
And maybe most importantly of all, why are windows easier to write 64 bit applications in than in os x?
Not all Adobe CS5 applications for OSX are 64-bit either. If you actually used them, as opposed to just reading about it on Teh Intarwebz and using it for forum troll bait, you might know that.
Kinda takes the wind out of the sails of all that snark, doesn't it?
Sorry, sometimes I forget, you don't even own a Mac... (Did everyone already know that about Aiden?)
I could have never imagined Aiden with mac, one of the two would explode in disbelief.
Plus I always thought by his sig that he was using some super pc by microsoft known as prop 8. Apparently the Governor of California owns one too. And apple paid a hefty amount of cash to support prop 8 in California. This is just getting too complicated for me I guess, I am overtaxing all 32 of my bits.
Learn the difference between QuickTime the player versus QuickTime the framework. QuickTime X is based on QtKit which was provided in Leopard *NOT* Tiger.
As for iMovie, it still uses the old QuickTime API's unless things have changed in iLife '11 that I don't know about.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8B117)
So what. What's the difference? Will iPhoto not run right on your modern Mac or whatever if it isn't 64-bit? iLife apps run just fine on my early '08 MBP running SL. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
Who really cares. Find something meaningful to argue about, people. Jeezus.
So what. What's the difference? Will iPhoto not run right on your modern Mac or whatever if it isn't 64-bit? iLife apps run just fine on my early '08 MBP running SL. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
Who really cares. Find something meaningful to argue about, people. Jeezus.
Haha, talk about reading comprehension and not even getting the joke.
How would you know where his or Apples priorities are? The man is brilliant and there are still only 24 hours in a day.
If you follow(ed) Apple and the way they go about their business, you would know that depending on what they want to do next, they allocate most of their resources to a specific task in an order THEY deem important.
They have always done that, but by their time lines, not by a few elite users or professionals who want the highest best and latest.
So, 64 bit will eventually be here for all applications, but only when they are ready to release it.
BlueRay on the MAC when they are ready to release it.
USB 3.0 when they are ready to release it.
and so on, get it?
They decide, not anybody's overdrawn wish list.
Can't wait for Apple to do things by you time line, go PC!
In the meantime, as I mentioned:
All my stuff works
Thank you
QTKit was introduced as a standard feature in Tiger. And alongside QuickTime 7, it was backported to Panther.
And it's still pretty useless.
For instance, I "ported" (it was basically a recompile) our high-end paint/roto system to 64 bit earlier this year. Everything worked fine, except the Quicktime support, which previously relied on the QuickTime API. We had access to tons of codecs and it "just worked". But with a 64 bit app the ONLY option we had was to use QTKit, which as others have pointed out is woefully inadequate for high end video applications. The only real stock codecs we have available are Uncompressed and H264, and that leaves us with really only supporting uncompressed QuickTimes now since nobody is going to use lossy compression where our application is used.
Of course the matter was "worse" on Windows 64, where any 64 bit QuickTime API doesn't exist AT ALL. So we had to essentially ditch QuickTime entirely on our Windows 64 version.
Good way to "promote" your video architecture Apple!
1 year later 64bit comes out
"Oh my gosh, best thing ever"
Thats how it usually goes around here, its only good when steve says it is lol
Most useless thread ever!
Who cares? 64 bit means next to nothing with these apps. I would only care about a move to 64 IF it included making them more multithreaded.
Anyone with many thousands of pictures should be using Aperture or Lightroom.
If they want to work on the core mass appeal apps, please make iTunes multithreaded!
Who cares? 64 bit means next to nothing with these apps. I would only care about a move to 64 IF it included making them more multithreaded.
Anyone with many thousands of pictures should be using Aperture or Lightroom.
If they want to work on the core mass appeal apps, please make iTunes multithreaded!
GGrrrrr!!!!
Whats so frustrating with all of this is that there's no update to iWeb. I'm an avid user of this program and its great if you don't know HTML. Doesn't Apple realize how valuable iWeb is? I think Apple may turn iWeb into its own separate software that will have even more bells and whistles. Maybe this HTML 5 thing is causing a delay with the upgrade. Who know!
Whats so frustrating with all of this is that there's no update to iWeb. I'm an avid user of this program and its great if you don't know HTML. Doesn't Apple realize how valuable iWeb is? I think Apple may turn iWeb into its own separate software that will have even more bells and whistles. Maybe this HTML 5 thing is causing a delay with the upgrade. Who know!
Interesting rebuttal - trying to make an equivalence between "not all CS5 apps" and "none of Apple Final Cut apps". (And note that Premiere Pro and AfterEffects are x64 only.)
Bingo!!!
I never thought about it that way but it makes sense. Finally someone with some common sense. are you a DEV?
I never thought about it that way but it makes sense. Finally someone with some common sense. are you a DEV?
It IS about virtual memory. On modern computers, ALL memory you allocate is considered virtual memory. It's allocated in pages, and those pages can either be in real memory or swapped out to disk.
On a 64 bit system, each 32 bit process can allocate up to 4GB of memory. This is a per-process limit, not a system limit. Unless iPhoto or iMovie need more than 4GB of RAM, they do not need to be 64 bit processes.
I think many people don't understand how virtual memory works and that's why they're upset about this, when they really shouldn't care.
-Z
On a 64 bit system, each 32 bit process can allocate up to 4GB of memory. This is a per-process limit, not a system limit. Unless iPhoto or iMovie need more than 4GB of RAM, they do not need to be 64 bit processes.
I think many people don't understand how virtual memory works and that's why they're upset about this, when they really shouldn't care.
-Z
Since we're talking in absolutes, in modern computers it's possible to have another class of memory that, while still allocated in pages, will not swap out to disk. This is seen commonly in large memory applications like databases, where a cache swapped to disk would be orders of magnatude slower then dyanimcally managed cache objects in memory.
Yet another common class of memory is virtual memory space that is reserved, but has neither pagefile space nor physical memory pages associated with it. This is called "reserved" or "uncommitted" virtual memory (and a few other names).
This is useful when a program needs an object which might grow very big, or which might be sparse (big holes of nothingness between scattered somethings). When the program needs to access a part of VM that hasn't been committed, it (or the OS) will "commit" those pages so that physical memory or pagefile is behind the virtual addresses.
Whats so frustrating with all of this is that there's no update to iWeb. I'm an avid user of this program and its great if you don't know HTML. Doesn't Apple realize how valuable iWeb is? I think Apple may turn iWeb into its own separate software that will have even more bells and whistles. Maybe this HTML 5 thing is causing a delay with the upgrade. Who know!
Spend $50 on RapidWeaver and leave iWeb forever. You won't regret it!
As for the 640k was enough, I am very happy that Apple strives to avoid the bloated mess that Adobe and Microsoft software has become. I love the fact that most OS/X software is easily distributed by download or CD instead of DVD. Way back then I did amazing things with Appleworks on my lowly IIc with only 128k.
most Windows software is downloadable too - even the OS
Have you counted the number of DVDs in the Final Cut kits?
Seriously, though, millions of people downloaded the Windows 7 DVD .ISO images before release (and pirates are distributing millions of copies of the final bits). MSDN members have access to a huge library of downloadable ISO images. Same with Apple developers (and those pirating Apple developer kits).
It's hard to say that "OSX kits are smaller" is a distinguishing factor - mostly they aren't, and for most people even a DVD kit isn't a problem to download (it might take overnight, but it copies).
I won't even argue the fact that much of the "bloat" in photo/video suites isn't code - but is templates, help files and videos, examples, ....
Have you counted the number of DVDs in the Final Cut kits?
Seriously, though, millions of people downloaded the Windows 7 DVD .ISO images before release (and pirates are distributing millions of copies of the final bits). MSDN members have access to a huge library of downloadable ISO images. Same with Apple developers (and those pirating Apple developer kits).
It's hard to say that "OSX kits are smaller" is a distinguishing factor - mostly they aren't, and for most people even a DVD kit isn't a problem to download (it might take overnight, but it copies).
I won't even argue the fact that much of the "bloat" in photo/video suites isn't code - but is templates, help files and videos, examples, ....
*SIGH*
Let me break things down for you noobs.
A 64bit number (long) requires 8 bytes each where was a 32bit number requires only 4 bytes. If you have less than 4 GB of ram in your machine, running Snow Leopard in 64bit mode and 64bit iLife would actually give you "LESS" room to work on your project, not more because the software itself would require more memory to operate. 64bit software only provides you with advantages if you are working with data sets that are larger than 4GB in size and if you actually have more than 4GB of physical ram.
The users creating home movies are not going to need a 64bit version of iLife and anyone needing more power should be using the Pro software to begin with.
Let me break things down for you noobs.
A 64bit number (long) requires 8 bytes each where was a 32bit number requires only 4 bytes. If you have less than 4 GB of ram in your machine, running Snow Leopard in 64bit mode and 64bit iLife would actually give you "LESS" room to work on your project, not more because the software itself would require more memory to operate. 64bit software only provides you with advantages if you are working with data sets that are larger than 4GB in size and if you actually have more than 4GB of physical ram.
The users creating home movies are not going to need a 64bit version of iLife and anyone needing more power should be using the Pro software to begin with.