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iLife - Last Minute Reconsideration?

Re: Do your research!

Originally posted by JBracy
From the iLife pre-Order page:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9063Z/A

System Requirements
Macintosh computer with PowerPC G3 or G4 processor.
256MB of physical RAM.
Mac OS X v10.1.5 or later (Mac OS X v10.2.2 or later recommended).
2GB disk space required to install iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD (Apple SuperDrive required for iDVD) or 250MB disk space to install iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie only.

Note 2 items:
1) OSX 10.1.5
2) Apple SuperDrive required for iDVD
Click to expand...

Hmm, I checked the iLife info under "software" and didn't see the system info. I didn't even think about looking at it under the "store." Thanx for clearing it up. :)


Lethal
 
Re: Keep in mind...

Originally posted by Hmm
Don't forget that iMovie 3 will be OS X only, unlike iMovie 2. iPhoto has always been OS X only, of course.

By making these attractive and free downloads, Apple not only may inspire Windows users to switch to the Mac, it may inspire OS 9 holdouts to switch to X, something also in the best interests of Apple.
Click to expand...

Excellent Point!
 
Re: Apple needs to grow software revenue

Originally posted by Max72118
I think the apps are well worth $50 and the company is cutting a good potential revenue stream by giving it away. Apple needs to grow software revenue; it can't take market share from M$ as a hardware company.
Click to expand...

I agree. Personally, I'll be upgrading to iDVD/iLife suite. But then, I'm not "Joe SixPack" either ...

As for Apple shooting itself in the foot by not keeping these free ... I haven't heard any rumors that the entire iLife suite was ever intended to not be included on all new Macs. By which I mean, never did Apple intend to pull iLife as a reason to buy a new Mac. It's just you freeloaders ( :) ) who keep buying/downloading new software to work with your three-year-old iMacs that Apple wants to get a little money from ...

I suspect that Apple will slowly migrate more value into the "iLife only" side of things, although perhaps keeping the existing iPhoto/iMovie/iTunes functionality as a free download. Really, though, if Apple isn't making money off a particular bit of software, that bit of software won't be receiving as much further development as those that make money. I suspect that we will see new iApps that add great new functionality and perhaps even slightly overlap the free iApps, but which can only be found in the iLife CD/DVD pack.

I like free stuff as much as the next guy. But I also like the results of voting for the good stuff with my wallet where possible.
 
Re: I can believe this - but Steve Jobs is cunning, and here is why.

Originally posted by Floop
I really want iMovie 3, iDVD 3, and to a lesser extent, iPhoto 2 and iTunes 3.

If Apple had made me pay $50 to get them, I would have been annoyed.

However, they are giving iMovie 3, iPhoto 2 and iTunes 3 away for free.

They are charging $50 for iDVD 3 - because the size of it necessitates it to be provided on CDs.

I will pay $50 to get iDVD 3.

Do you see what I'm saying here? I'm still going to pay $50, and I'm going to end up with exactly the same software, but I don't feel ripped off, as mentally I got three software items free, and I paid a reasonable amount for the fourth.

This is very clever on Apple's part. I don't feel ripped off, instead I feel like I'm getting a good deal. It's a way better strategy than telling everyone they have to pay, if they want to use the iApps. Cunning as hell!

Floop
Click to expand...

Good point... but only people with Superdrives will need to buy iDVD so that will perhaps reduce # of copies sold. I wish you could get an Apple Superdrive w/o having to buy a new machine. I may attempt to buy a Pioneer internal one if reports look good after iLife is released. I believe www.xlr8yourmac.com keeps a database of superdrive configurations known to work.

Still, I think your point stands well... even concerning people who won't buy iLife or even download any of the free programs. It would leave a bad taste of "nickel and dime-ing" even if they had no interest in the programs.

I was very very pleased with this keynote. I'm a longtime Apple user but I had been feeling down about Apple lately. They really won me back with their announcements. Charging for iPhoto and iMovie could have easily marred that. Not worth it, concerning Apple's position right now, imo.

Go Apple!
 
Re: Re: Re: Nice crystal balls boys....

Originally posted by gopher
First you have to use a credit card, secondly you need to use it through the web which isn't secure
Click to expand...

I always wondered how data sent over the internet - which isn't childs play to intercept anyway - encrypted at 64 or 128 bit encryption could ever be considered insecure.

It's more dangerous to use your credit card in a restaurant - where an enterprising waiter/waitress could swipe it through their own reader or write the info down - or even in a grocery store where somebody with good vision and memory (or a decent camera) could capture your name, number, and expiration date.

Neither of those require the insane kind of computer crunch time it would take to intercept and decrypt your credit card information from an online transaction. Those internet horror stories you hear almost all involve retailers who screwed up and didn't secure their database or people who sent their info to fraudulant companies (ie. NOT APPLE).

The insecure database can happen with any company, e-tailer or not, and people should always research companies they're buying from to make sure they're not frauds. Believe me, using your credit card online with the big-name companies is probably significantly safer than using it in public anywhere.
 
Re: Apple needs to grow software revenue

Originally posted by Max72118
I think the apps are well worth $50 and the company is cutting a good potential revenue stream by giving it away. Apple needs to grow software revenue; it can't take market share from M$ as a hardware company.
Click to expand...

I disagree. They can make money by selling new products like Keynote. But charging for formerly free apps can sometimes generate more ill will than new revenue and will ultimately sacrifice loyalty and future hardware sales. With this upgrade anyway, I think it was wise to keep them free. And rather brilliant, as another poster pointed out, that many will pay anyway to get them on CD but will be happy that they are available free.

I also disagree that Apple needs software revenue to take market share. Hardware grows market share not software. :) The iApps are there to get you to buy a relatively expensive piece of Apple hardware.
 
I agree with most here. Part of the value of a Mac is the software that makes it run, that's the OS and all the iApps. Take away that, and it get's more and more expensive to switch. To Apple's advantage, though, is using the free iApp updates to "encourage" us all to upgrade to the latest OS.
 
Re: Re: Apple needs to grow software revenue

Originally posted by soosy


I disagree. They can make money by selling new products like Keynote. But charging for formerly free apps can sometimes generate more ill will than new revenue and will ultimately sacrifice loyalty and future hardware sales.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Less than 15% of .Mac users resigned once a price was attached. I'm sure part of that 15% were bitter about being "forced" to do so (or have all their business cards reprinted).

I'll will was indeed generated and those expressing it were not "whiners", but customers who now carry a justifiably wary eye...

Perception counts more than reality here. Charging for something that was once free counts as "taking away".
 
I still don't understand the debate. Nothing has changed. The only thing you are being charged for is iDVD, which has never been free as an upgrade. It has been free on new machines, and it still is. There hasn't been any policy shift here, only a marketing one. iLife is a push to recruit users. IF you must have the other iApps on a disk, download and burn the dmg files. If you don't have a superdrive, wuit complaining. If you do and you want to upgrade, you have to pay. You always have had to pay for this. IF you don't want to pay don't upgrade.

Saying things like, I can't use my mac anymore because I don't want topay for the upgrade is silly. I have a 3400 and a Centris 610 and even an old Plus that work perfectly well, there isn't any hope of upgrading those machines. You got your mac to do something, and the only thing you are being charged for is burning DVDs. If you are able to upgrade, you have the previous version anyway, which works fine. I don't see the room for complaint [/rant]
 
Oh yeah

Kinda lost track, eh?

The debate was about how Apple's iLife disk was supposedly going to charge for iDVD, iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes (maybe not iTunes?) and at the last minute changed to include iPhoto, iMovie and iTunes along with iDVD, but iDVD would be the only one you were paying for. The others would be along for the ride, but also available for free download.

The question was "Did Apple bow on this or were these apps always going to remain free?"
 
Re: Nice crystal balls boys....

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
It's a shame Steve and co. didn't get as much insight concerning .Mac.

My service provider, AT&T Worldnet, gives me an online calendar(with email alerts), online address book, webmail, 5 email accounts and 10MB for my website as part of my $16.95/month (150 hrs) plan. Everything works.

I know that sounds like an advertisement, but what is Apple giving me for $100 more? I'd bet that the discount price of $50 (still overpriced in my book) is going to become the standard price next year.

At least they're learning..... - j
Click to expand...

$16.95/month comes out to a little over $200/year. That's $100 more than what Apple is charging for .Mac, so what is your point?
 
Re: Too many upgrades.

Originally posted by bryank1
I sent them an e-mail a couple days before MWSF and told them I was lucky I was even able to afford a Mac and that it seemed all I was doing last year was forking out money to keep upgrading everything (Jaguar, .Mac). I told them if they start charging for the iApps, I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to keep using my Mac, since the iApps were made to be part of the OS and one of the reasons I switched.
Click to expand...

Okay. You bought your Mac with the understanding that you would get the apps that came with it upgraded for free in perpetuity?

No one (well, very few anyways) does anything like that, computers or otherwise.

Had Apple charged for iTunes 3, then you would still have been able to use iTunes 2 until your computer died of natural causes. Note that if you buy a new Mac today it comes with "iTunes 3", not "iTunes 4 and above"; this is intentional.

Buying Apple hardware does not give you access to every piece of software they produce forever after. That's just silly.

BTW, if you feel you have been "forced" to upgrade (to Jaguar or to .Mac), then you should examine that which is giving you this pressure. Can you not work with a less-than-the-latest operating system? Do you feel you could not live without your mac.com email address? Or, did you feel the need to upgrade because Jaguar and .Mac were compelling values to you? If the latter, then you have neither right nor reason to complain, and instead should be thanking Apple.
 
Originally posted by jayscheuerle

That's the ISP.

.Mac is $100 more on top of that.
.Mac does not include ISP service.
If it did, it would be a deal.
It doesn't, so it's not to me.
Click to expand...

I know I'm drifting off topic here, but we just saw CyberDog reincarnated in Safari, maybe Apple will turn .mac into eWorld 2...
I could actually see Apple as a successful ISP. Even Earthlink, which provides some of the best Mac support, is a pain to deal with when your DSL quits working.
Apple could fuse .mac into an Internet service, which would make .mac really worth your money.
 
Originally posted by pyrotoaster


I know I'm drifting off topic here, but we just saw CyberDog reincarnated in Safari, maybe Apple will turn .mac into eWorld 2...
I could actually see Apple as a successful ISP. Even Earthlink, which provides some of the best Mac support, is a pain to deal with when your DSL quits working.
Apple could fuse .mac into an Internet service, which would make .mac really worth your money.
Click to expand...

Though I happen to think that .Mac was a good value, it would certainly nice if Apple made it an ISP as well... especially if it included the option for broadband. Oh, and Cyberdog's not dead yet, or not entirely anyway; Sherlock's HTML renderer is based in part on Cyberdog's.
 
I wish .mac did have ftp...over a modem iDisk is a b*tch...apart from homepage, all i use is the email, which i dont wana loose...

I'm running outta reasons to justify my .mac purchase of $100 NZD....It'll be worse next year, $200 :( ....im just a poor student...
 
I think an ISP fully integrated with the OS would really be something great from Apple.
I can't stand dealing with the tech support people at Earthlink, I have a Jaguar Mac sharing a DSL connection with a Mac running 8.6, and they don't have the slightest idea what to do when something goes wrong.

Really, an Apple ISP would make sense. The i in iMac stands for internet, so why don't we have an internet iApp? (beyond Safari)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Free Apps, Free the Apps!

Originally posted by jayscheuerle


Yes, if you're one of the 15% of the population that has broadband. Otherwise, the access rate is prohibitive and much slower/inconvenient than writing to a CD or Zip disk..
Click to expand...

Is that really what percent of the population has broadband? If so, this country is lagging big time. I'm sure that it depends on what city you live in. I live in Seattle and I know 1 (one) person that does not have a broadband connection. However, when I lived in Albuquerque I was one of a maybe 4 people I knew that had broadband.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Free Apps, Free the Apps!

Originally posted by yosoyjay


Is that really what percent of the population has broadband? If so, this country is lagging big time. I'm sure that it depends on what city you live in. I live in Seattle and I know 1 (one) person that does not have a broadband connection. However, when I lived in Albuquerque I was one of a maybe 4 people I knew that had broadband.
Click to expand...

Actually, the numbers are dropping, broadband providers are folding... After initial waves of interest and enthusiasm, most people realized that for their own home use, the extra $20+ dollars a month wasn't worth it.

If you're into file swapping, grabbing warez, playing online games or downloading porn, it's a necessity, but most people are checking email and surfing lightly and have returned to their regular lives with one more tool in their pockets. I don't think Apple recognizes this.

I have broadband at work, where I download all my Apple Software Updates etc. and bring them home to my 56k connection. I'm guessing a lot of people operate this way...
 
Re: Re: Re: Apple needs to grow software revenue

Originally posted by jayscheuerle


Exactly! Less than 15% of .Mac users resigned once a price was attached. I'm sure part of that 15% were bitter about being "forced" to do so (or have all their business cards reprinted).

I'll will was indeed generated and those expressing it were not "whiners", but customers who now carry a justifiably wary eye...

Perception counts more than reality here. Charging for something that was once free counts as "taking away".
Click to expand...

You guys ought to know that about 30,000 people got .mac for free like me. Everyone who was elgible for apples learn and earn was able to answere 10 questions, then they got .mac free for one year. most people i have talked to took advantage of the offer. probably not all 30,000 people but a bunch of them sure did to my knowledge. if i hadnt gotten it free i wouldnt have purchased it. but i will probably renew my subscription because i believe apple is gonna do some tight integration and new features with a mac an .mac. The one feature I really want is I want to be able to sync my safari bookmarks with .mac, so when i add a bookmark on my powermac, and i go to my powerbook, i can upload and recieve my latest bookmark additions to both my computers back and forth. i still got to email them about it, anyone else think that is a cool feature to possibly have.

iJon
 
Yes, I saw the iLife extract as well a few days ago. It was all there in black and white - at least at the time that text was finalised, Apple was going to charge for all the iLife apps except iTunes.

Doesn't make me happy at all, but Apple's got a real problem in that its hardware is so nice that people don't upgrade it, and if all the software is free then there's no revenue for them beyond the initial sale.

If you're a manufacturer of a fully integrated product like Apple is, that's a bit of a killer.

Hence we get .mac and a (at least it was going to be) sale-only iLife package, to try and get some ongoing revenue out of Apple owners.

I think that, particularly with hardware sales being relatively flat right now, we'll be seeing more from Apple over the next year that tries to get more of that money...

...I wouldn't be at all surprised, for example, if a further revision of iTunes is being held back a bit to work up a way of getting some cash out of us iPod owners.
 
Re: Re: Re: Free Apps, Free the Apps!

Originally posted by jamilecrire


100MB is different than 10MB plus it integrates with your OS. Not to mention mac.com is a cool address.

I do however agree $100 is too much but $50 isn't bad.
Click to expand...

Even at $50, I'd have a problem.

First, the only real "integration" I need is between my Desktop and my Palm. Since this is work related, this is Windows based and not Mac until such time that Apple can crack the 'No Macs' business barrier.

And at home, I don't want to dialup every time I want to do something, just to link with .mac Ditto for choosing to do virus scans, backups or whatever: the longer the action takes, the less I want it tying up my land line at 56K.

Similarly, for stuff like file sharing and web publishing, there's a lot of benefits to owning my own domain. At the very least, it lets me have dozens of "cool" email addresses instead of just one or a few. And I can configure these as forwarding addresses instead of actual email boxes and simply abandon them when they get trafficed up by the Spammers. I doubt that can I do that as ofte as I like or as easily in .MAC


Offhand, if I were to dump an extra ~$100 into services, I'd use it to upgrade my home ISP from 56K to broadband. The only problem I have there is that broadband's current going rates are still ~2x what I consider them to be actually worth.


-hh
 
No good if it's free

I know it's hard to believe, but the truth is, people respect something more and think it's better if they have to pay for it.

For instance, I make event videos, and I doubled my business when I doubled my prices.

And sports games: who gives a **** when they give out free bobbly heads or foam hands, but go to the gift shop and the line is out the door to buy the same things.
 
Re: No good if it's free

Originally posted by Talon1138
I know it's hard to believe, but the truth is, people respect something more and think it's better if they have to pay for it.

For instance, I make event videos, and I doubled my business when I doubled my prices.

And sports games: who gives a **** when they give out free bobbly heads or foam hands, but go to the gift shop and the line is out the door to buy the same things.
Click to expand...

Further proof that people are stupid. :D


Lethal
 
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