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Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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Illinois is the latest state to attempt to pass legislation that would prevent developers from being required to use Apple's in-app purchase options by allowing for alternate payment solutions within apps.

iOS-App-Store-General-Feature-JoeBlue.jpg

As outlined by Illinois news site WGEM, under the Freedom to Describe Directly Act, distribution platforms like the App Store and Google Play would not be able to force Illinois developers to use a "particular in-application payment system" as the exclusive mode for accepting payments, nor would they be able to retaliate against developers who opt to use an alternate payment option.

Illinois-based Basecamp CEO David Heinemeier-Hansson, who in 2020 was involved in a public dispute with Apple over email app "Hey," is one of the supporters of the new bill. When launched, the Hey app did not work without a subscription, but did not include an option to purchase a subscription in the app and instead opened straight to a login screen.

Apple did not believe that an app opening to a login was an ideal user experience and threatened to remove Hey from the App Store if a subscription option wasn't added. Hey ultimately got around the restriction by offering a free option that users could test when first installing the app.

Heinemeier-Hansson has since been championing various state bills that attempt to provide developers with non-App Store payment options, but none of these bills have succeeded. North Dakota, Arizona, and Minnesota have all attempted to get around in-app purchase rules by passing bills, but Apple and Google lobbied hard against them.

Apple's chief compliance officer Kyle Andeer said that Arizona's bill was a "government mandate that Apple give away the App Store," and Apple's Chief Privacy Engineer Erik Neuenschwander said that the North Dakota's bill threatened to "destroy the iPhone as you know it."

The Arizona bill actually passed in the Arizona House of Representatives and the Arizona House Committee, but the Arizona Senate pulled the bill before it could be voted on. Arizona State Representative Regina Cobb said at the time that Apple and Google "hired almost every lobbyist in town" to kill the bill.

Illinois might not have much luck with its bill given Apple's efforts to fight against such legislation, but Apple has recently been required to allow alternate in-app payment systems in South Korea and the Netherlands. Apple is also facing federal legislation that would allow for alternate app stores and alternate payment methods, which the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee is set to hear soon.

In both the Netherlands and South Korea, Apple is still collecting a commission on transactions, and Apple CEO Tim Cook has made it clear that any alternate payment options in the U.S. would also see Apple implementing an alternate way of collecting fees.

"We would still have to come up with an alternate way of collecting our commission," Cook said during the Epic v. Apple trial. Cook explained that Apple would need to find a way to track sales, invoice them, and chase developers for money. "It seems like a process that doesn't need to exist," he said.

Article Link: Illinois Floats Bill That Would Let Developers Skirt Apple's In-App Purchase Rules
 
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russell_314

macrumors 68040
Feb 10, 2019
3,156
4,034
USA
All this crap is just being pushed by Google to destroy whatever extra security Apple has in their phones. Eventually it’s going to be where you just install whatever apps from whatever place you want to download them. Then people are going to be crying when their data and identity has been stolen 🤦‍♂️😂
 

Nicole1980

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2010
507
855
The writing is on the wall. Whether you like it not, or whether Apple likes it or not ... their policy of 'walled garden' BS is going to end sooner than later.

You want security? Don't be a dumbass when purchasing stuff. The best security is people being somewhat intelligent and not paying $30 annual subscriptions for crap. At the end of the day, Apple can't prevent stupidity. And they shouldn't try to!

Treating people like ignorant babies is never gonna work out.
 
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KaliYoni

macrumors 6502a
Feb 19, 2016
841
1,754
I think bans that move cities, states, or countries closer to command economies, where elected officials and government bureaucracies dictate every aspect of how private companies and consumers do business, are terrible policy.

In the specific cases of the iOS App Store and, to a lesser extent, Google Play, restricting Apple and Google from setting the participation terms of the marketplaces they built, established a customer base for, and maintain on an ongoing basis does not do anything to protect users or longer-term, developers. Some other payment venue will become the dominant player, raising costs for everybody.

If politicians were serious about helping users and providing choice to developers, legislation requring online marketplaces to accept cash for all transactions might be better. But the best governmental action in this case is really to take no action at all.
 
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BreakYurAnkles

Suspended
Oct 17, 2021
508
497
The writing is on the wall. Whether you like it not, or whether Apple likes it or not ... their policy of 'walled garden' BS is going to end sooner than later.

You want security? Don't be a dumbass when purchasing stuff. The best security is people being somewhat intelligent and not paying $30 annual subscriptions for crap. At the end of the day, Apple can't prevent stupidity. And they shouldn't try to!

Treating people like ignorant babies is never gonna work out.
I honestly think when people make significant mistakes, it hurts them so bad they usually work very hard to not make them again.

I agree that stupidity NEEDS to be allowed to run its course through idiots.
 

Nicole1980

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2010
507
855
I honestly think when people make significant mistakes, it hurts them so bad they usually work very hard to not make them again.

I agree that stupidity NEEDS to be allowed to run its course through idiots.
Well said. Trying to 'prevent' stupid mistakes by creating baby gates will never allow people to learn common sense and consider things with a critical mind.
 

jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
5,608
15,791
Temecula, CA
The writing is on the wall. Whether you like it not, or whether Apple likes it or not ... their policy of 'walled garden' BS is going to end sooner than later.

You want security? Don't be a dumbass when purchasing stuff. The best security is people being somewhat intelligent and not paying $30 annual subscriptions for crap. At the end of the day, Apple can't prevent stupidity. And they shouldn't try to!

Treating people like ignorant babies is never gonna work out.
Your view of “people” is amazing, you really think that people want to be educated on security when using a phone? Think again, from that perspective, 90+% of people are “dumb” and frankly, they should be.
 

danakin

macrumors regular
Dec 6, 2012
240
490
Toronto
All this crap is just being pushed by Google to destroy whatever extra security Apple has in their phones. Eventually it’s going to be where you just install whatever apps from whatever place you want to download them. Then people are going to be crying when their data and identity has been stolen 🤦‍♂️😂

Wouldn't users be able to opt to use an alternate payment method? If someone prefers Apple's payment processing, go for it. If someone else prefers to use a 3rd party, well good for she/he.

I'm a fan of being treated like an adult and, if I use an alternate system and accept its associated (real or imagined) risks, then that's on me.

This football season I renewed my DAZN subscription but did not want them to have to fork over 30% to Apple. I went to their site, entered my payment information, and then launched the app on my devices. I do this for all my subscriptions so the providers don't have to give up almost a third of their revenue.

Choice, it's a beautiful thing.
 

nvmls

macrumors 65816
Mar 31, 2011
1,470
3,979
All this crap is just being pushed by Google to destroy whatever extra security Apple has in their phones. Eventually it’s going to be where you just install whatever apps from whatever place you want to download them. Then people are going to be crying when their data and identity has been stolen 🤦‍♂️😂
Yea, I thought so too, when I saw Apple's store most downloaded apps were Whatsapp, Instagram & Facebook 🤷
 
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Michael Scrip

macrumors 604
Mar 4, 2011
7,355
10,609
NC
Illinois is the latest state to attempt to pass legislation that would prevent developers from being required to use Apple's in-app purchase options by allowing for alternate payment solutions within apps.

Sounds good.

"We would still have to come up with an alternate way of collecting our commission," Cook said during the Epic v. Apple trial. Cook explained that Apple would need to find a way to track sales, invoice them, and chase developers for money. "It seems like a process that doesn't need to exist," he said.

Whoops...

Once again we're reminded that Apple's 15% or 30% cut isn't just for payment processing. It's the commission fee + payment processing fee.

So if developers want to move the payment processing elsewhere... that's fine. But it won't eliminate Apple's commission fee.

Remember what Google is doing in South Korea: 15% if Google handles the payment... 11% if someone else does.

Google isn't letting developers avoid commission fees... and Apple won't either.

Maybe instead of fighting so hard for alternative payment systems... these governments should have been fighting to lower the platform commission fees?

Because in the end... this proposed bill won't help the developer.

If the developer has to pay 3% to Stripe or PayPal... and they still have to pay 11% or 26% to Apple... then what did they accomplish here?

🤣
 

lazyrighteye

macrumors 68030
Jan 16, 2002
2,738
2,314
Denver, CO
I am all of the percents pro choice, and right now, we have that. I have seen the alternative, and it's GD nightmare I want nothing to do with. On any level. You want to open your digital life, your personal data, your financial records, photos, locations, etc. to just anyone? Have soulless marketers cherry pick that data to shape the products they force down your throat, shape the articles you read, the ideas you foster, the shape of your echo chamber? Cool. I don't. There is a reason - actually a lot of them - why I elect to give my hard earned monies to a specific ecosystem and not another. What is wrong with that? Nothing.

It's weird... I have never once ever considered getting an account at widowsrumors.com and posting about how Windows needs to me more like Apple. Why? Because I don't think they do. I don't give a flip what Widows users want, do. Happy to let them enjoy their decisions. Good for them. Just allow me the same in return. It's not complicated, folks. Stuff you hopefully learn in kindergarten. Chose and enjoy what you like. And don't take it personal when someone chooses and likes something different. There's a million ways to slice this...
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors 603
Jul 22, 2002
6,013
4,075
The writing is on the wall. Whether you like it not, or whether Apple likes it or not ... their policy of 'walled garden' BS is going to end sooner than later.

You want security? Don't be a dumbass when purchasing stuff. The best security is people being somewhat intelligent and not paying $30 annual subscriptions for crap. At the end of the day, Apple can't prevent stupidity. And they shouldn't try to!

Treating people like ignorant babies is never gonna work out.
I’d say first work to decrease the number of dumbasses. Use, say, Windows as a barometer. If the number of dumbasses are decreased such that the amount of money folks are able to scam Windows users out of in a year drops to less than $1 million, THEN claim success and go after Apple to make changes.

I’d bet there’s a LOT of folks out there that have their elderly parents or non-tech savvy family members using an iOS device because they know that “Dell” can’t call them up and have them install malicious software on it. :)
 

ian87w

macrumors 603
Feb 22, 2020
6,004
8,613
Indonesia
All this crap is just being pushed by Google to destroy whatever extra security Apple has in their phones. Eventually it’s going to be where you just install whatever apps from whatever place you want to download them. Then people are going to be crying when their data and identity has been stolen 🤦‍♂️😂
I doubt Google is in it. Google has their own interest in the Play Store, and the fact that Google required OEMs to Pte-install Google apps like Chrome for Android certification won’t jive well with regulators, if they were being scrutinized. So I doubt Google wanted this.
 
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now i see it

macrumors G3
Jan 2, 2002
9,260
18,361
“explained that Apple would need to find a way to track sales, invoice them, and chase developers for money. "It seems like a process that doesn't need to exist when it’s so much easier to make money hand over fist playing gatekeeper of payments like we currently do”
 
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dandy1117

macrumors member
Sep 18, 2012
67
82
Wouldn't users be able to opt to use an alternate payment method? If someone prefers Apple's payment processing, go for it. If someone else prefers to use a 3rd party, well good for she/he.

I'm a fan of being treated like an adult and, if I use an alternate system and accept its associated (real or imagined) risks, then that's on me.

This football season I renewed my DAZN subscription but did not want them to have to fork over 30% to Apple. I went to their site, entered my payment information, and then launched the app on my devices. I do this for all my subscriptions so the providers don't have to give up almost a third of their revenue.

Choice, it's a beautiful thing.
you'e assuming that you would have the choice. What if developers ONLY include the alternate payment options to avoid the integrated in-app purchases? what if legislature's believe that Apple requiring in-app purchases via Apple's system constitutes and unfair advantage? The truth is that there will likely be unintended consequences that could limit user choice in purchasing software and services on the various mobile OS platforms.
 

Cosmosent

macrumors 68020
Apr 20, 2016
2,315
2,691
La Jolla, CA
I would prefer if Congress would pass New Law that would create a 2nd iOS App Store that acts like a Utility, with a Fixed 7.5% fee across the Board for ALL transactions, with half going to maintain the Utility & half going to Apple.

IMO, Apple needs "App Discovery" competition more than anything !

For starters, I say let Apple keep the Game Apps, Apps for Little Kids, & Streaming Media Apps ... everything else, which accounts for about ONLY 10% of the App Store's revenue, should be allowed in the Utility iOS App Store !

Apple is resistant to change mostly because they don't want to lose-out on the Game Revenue, so lets remove it, & the others that Apple cares alot about, from the equation, & move forward !
 
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canadianreader

macrumors 6502a
Sep 24, 2014
779
1,957
The writing is on the wall. Whether you like it not, or whether Apple likes it or not ... their policy of 'walled garden' BS is going to end sooner than later.

You want security? Don't be a dumbass when purchasing stuff. The best security is people being somewhat intelligent and not paying $30 annual subscriptions for crap. At the end of the day, Apple can't prevent stupidity. And they shouldn't try to!

Treating people like ignorant babies is never gonna work out.

Hopefully the beginning of the end of subscriptions infesting the AppStore. I'm pro-choice and will always be.
 
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