Not up-to-date. DSC, if supported by the OS, GPU and display, smashes the dual 4K 60Hz limit.
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I'm genuinely surprised by the negative reviews of the Studio Display
- Thread starter CalMin
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But that's just it. For the audience being targeted by this display, 27" 4K is not a consideration.
I agree with this post. I really like like MKBHD put it in the video @russell_314 linked to:
"It doesn't really matter if it's a good deal or not if it's exactly what you want. If there are other cheaper options it doesn't really matter because there is only one that does the exact thing that you want it to."
I was also a bit surprised by the response this display received. We all knew this wouldn't be a "monitor for the masses" because the masses uses either the cheapest 1080p at Best Buy or have a 4K that suits them. I wish this had HDR, but I'm not surprised it doesn't and was also pleasantly surprised at the price (for Apple). For many users, we aren't framing our purchase in terms of what the best deal is or what other displays there are that do not meet a set criteria. For people who wanted a 5K display with Apple's fit and finish they now have an option.
- Lack of HDR is valid, but lack of ProMotion I don't think is. Outside of something special on Apple's side, I don't think Thunderbolt 4 can drive 5K at 120hz with all the color and extras that Apple wants.
- I keep seeing "I can get a good 4K 27" or 32" for X", but what people don't seem to be able to get is that the target audience for this display doesn't care. 4K 27" is not a great experience on macOS and 4K at 32" is okay, but pretty low resolution if you work with text close-up. It doesn't matter how many 27" 4K monitors you bring up, that isn't want this subset of users wants.
- I see some aggression regarding the fact that "Apple backed it's users into a corner" with scaling, but that is what it is. I don't think Apple set out for this scenario. Back in 2010 with the iPhone 4 this was the most straightforward way to upscale in their eyes. It's neither good nor bad. People keep pointing to Windows, but Windows and 3rd party scaling is all over the place. Sometimes it scales well, sometimes you have icons with text at like size 2 font because the entire app doesn't adhere to the standard.
- Lastly, people keep quoting other displays, but most of them do not match the specs of this monitor. There is the issue that 5K is mostly abandoned, so Apple has little completion, but ignoring resolution people seem to be wanting miniLED, HDR, Promotion, camera, speakers, thunderbolt expansion, metal chassis all for $799 - $999, but there is not real example of that on the market for a feasible price. The 4K HDR displays shown often have lower typical brightness outside of HDR content, lack the extras, or if you find a 4K display with all of these features it's $2,499 - $3,499 "professional artist" displays.
5K at 120 Hz is possible with DSC, we just don’t have any panels that can do it.
My biggest issue with those provided examples is that while those monitors DO have HDR and perhaps look better when watching a movie, they often have considerably worse specs for everything else. I do think the Studio Display should have had HDR/miniLED, but people throw up these displays that have far worse color or like 300-nit of typical brightness. Outside of specific use cases, I want a good SDR experience too, which these monitors don't deliver on when compared to the ASD.
Not seen or tried one of these monitors. But, my goodness, the price. I suppose, "the price, is the price...".
I’m not sure what you mean by credentials here. Of course it’s just opinion - but isn’t that all of YouTube?
All I really meant to say is that I think that the video articulates really well who the monitor was for and why it’s so well suited to it’s target market. It’s not for everyone and not all will extract the value from the price. But for those of us that do it’s a uniquely well-positioned product that scratches a lot of different itches.
There are no problems doing 5k@120 with DSC, which is used by Apple right now already.
Color space coverage is handled just fine.
What "extras" do you think Apple wants that require too much bandwidth?
I basically fall into this camp. I just don't see $1600 worth of value, especially when height adjustment is another $400. I totally get the unique experience the Studio Display provides, but I feel like you're paying a very substantial premium for it. The Studio Display just falls outside of my "premium" threshold for what you're getting. Personally disappointing for sure, but if there are plenty of people willing to pay it, it is what it is.
I have a U2720Q and found it a huge improvement over my previous 1440p U2719DX on both Mac and Windows especially at normal view distance; thus the whole scaling "issue" just seems like a nitpick thing to justify the cost of the display to me. I see more value in the build quality, built-in speakers, and webcam.
With that said, you either think it's worth it or you don't. There are plenty of people who think Macs aren't worth it even though I think my 16" M1 MacBook Pro was totally worth it, so I guess discussing this is moot.
Yes, I understand that. I think the problem is though that a lot of people here were hoping for a more affordable monitor. If Apple would also have introduced a $999 monitor with fewer nits, worse audio, worse webcam and perhaps also 24" instead of 27", a lot of people here would have been very happy.
Apple has a lot of options for desktop computers, why not for monitors? The cheapest Apple desktop is the Mac mini for $699, but for the cheapest display you need to pay $1599. So in the end everyone with a Mac mini grudgingly ends up with one of those plastic LG displays.
Comparing with the LG 27UL850:
It also gives me extra storage above and below the ASD.
- Text is substantially sharper. 4K -> 5K is a huge difference. Much bigger difference than I expected.
- Local dimming zones are good to have but it's not that bad on the ASD. I wish it had HDR / mini-LED. I just tried out some HDR demo videos on YouTube - subjective feeling: ASD - the picture looks good, better than I expected; MacBook Pro XDR screen - NOW THAT'S BEAUTIFUL. The contrast is unbelievable.
- The monitor is very bright. In an indoor environment, only half of the brightness is already bright enough.
- Colour reproduction is excellent, the LG monitor always looks a bit washed out - especially in higher brightness.
- The body of the monitor looks very good and it's very sturdy.
- The speakers are okay - miles better than the LG monitor.
- Being able to directly control the settings from macOS is another big plus, I HATE using the joystick under the LG monitor, it feels flimsy and the UI looks like something from 1990s. For instance, if I have to turn off the monitor, I need to press upwards, then push the joystick towards the back of the monitor. All other settings in the menu make the picture look weird.
- The webcam? Quality aside, I don't even want to use it, because at appropriate height, the webcam is focusing on top of my head.
- The stand. Bad bad bad, it's too low and a monitor riser is required. I have a minimalist aluminium stand for my iMac so I'm using it to raise the ASD by about 3 inches. It's much better to be used with my MBP this way. If I have to say a good thing, it's that the stand is very sturdy, much more so than the iMac 27". When I lift up my iMac 27", the stand loses balance and dangles around, the stand of the ASD stays in place.
It also gives me extra storage above and below the ASD.
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MKBHD listed out an inferior display and implied the points that are inferior for example the much lower PPI and just half of the brightness don't matter... and then moved on to say that the value of the ASD is only in the things other than the panel. I totally disagree with him on this point. Those other stuffs are nice to have, but the panel itself is actually good! If I continue to develop on his point I can find displays with even lower PPI, and even worse brightness, worse colour reproduction that everything looks washed out for half the price of that Dell display. Then what's the point?
I have an LG 27UL850 as I've said in another post, that is 4K, 27-inch, 350 nits (fake HDR), 99% sRGB - the color accuracy is very bad in personal experience, plastic body, crap speakers, no webcam, no ambient light sensor, crap joystick control, ancient on screen display interface, and I got it for $400 in 2020, probably even cheaper by now. But so what? I don't like to use that monitor, the only pros is the price.
People's value proposition for tech is vastly different, and to some people just a basic panel that can display just something is fine, the no. 1 priority is price. It's fine, and the market has a lot of these options. But to people who wants a 27-inch panel with high PPI, bright, high colour accuracy, unfortunately, those 27" 4K monitors that everyone is talking about is not in the same league, totally.
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I feel like MKBHD whose job is literally reviewing tech and has reviewed numerous monitors/laptops has a bit more of a valid opinion here.
Who cares about a monitors speakers and webcam when even the best is crap by external standards? I also have an LG monitor and I rather like the joystick control. It's easy to use, let's me adjust the brightness just as well with Windows or macOS or freeBSD or freeDOS. And I can easily swap between my PC and another device without tearing out cables.
If you like your Studio Display and think it's good that's fine but it still has flaws, and it's still fair for others to criticise it or be disappointed with the value it brings for the money (to them) even if there is no strictly better alternative.
It's a good display just 2 - 3 years too late. If Apple dropped this in late 2018 or early 2019, i think there'll be much lesser criticism on the price. And the adjustable stand should come standard. Of course, I agree it could do some things that no other displays can do. Hence, I'm ordering one.
So just because he reviews numerous times means his opinion should be respected over others? He may have a bias toward saturated colours or has a different sound profile when it comes to speaker quality. It’s all subjective!
The thing with social media and the spawn of ‘influencers’ is that they make a living simply giving their point of view. It’s prudent to hear opinions and reviews, but please don’t take their word as gospel.
That's why these influencers, KOLs are worth so much money. LOL.
According to this logic, since I've been going to this forum for 13 years with thousands of posts and thousands of likes, probably this also means that I'm more trustworthy than our fellow friend here? Haha.
"Marques Brownlee (mkbhd on YT)"
Dumb Question: does anyone know what his acronym "MKBHD" stands for?
I've looked thru his YT channel, his website, his "merch", even Wikipedia and Urbandictionary.com, and can't find an answer (pretty cool life story, did you know he's also a pro Frisbee champ?)
Dumb Question: does anyone know what his acronym "MKBHD" stands for?
I've looked thru his YT channel, his website, his "merch", even Wikipedia and Urbandictionary.com, and can't find an answer (pretty cool life story, did you know he's also a pro Frisbee champ?)
Because he's seen hundreds of different displays reviewing stuff and attending shows like CES seeing what manufacturers are or will be offering in the space. He has a lot more points of comparisons than the average person. It's a more informed opinion than random forum commenter X.
It's not really much different than trusting movie reviews from the newspaper critic that sees 100+ movies in year vs. your Uncle Joe that watches maybe 3 and they are mostly Steven Segal movies. Yes, both are opinions but the movie reviewer has more to draw from about what makes a movie good or bad and what the best movies are doing.
A reviewer like MKBHD? Yes. He has a track record you can examine and see what his biases may or may not be. He also has reviewed many similar devices (in this case monitors) that help give him a perspective that some random forum user who is trying to justify their purchase does not have. He (and other good reviewers) also have access to equipment and testing apparatus that allow them to do things like truly validate (or refute) a manufacturer's claims. The M1 Ultra being faster than other Intel, Nvidia, or AMD CPUs and GPUs comes to mind here.
Also, I want to point out that color accuracy is absolutely not subjective. It can be measured and should be measured. If a reviewer does not measure it (which I believe MKBHD did not), then as a viewer you can discount what they are saying about color because that is actually subjective and then seek out more reviews that actually have a measurement. For the record, I have seen a review (I cannot remember which) that did measure the ASD's color accuracy and it did measure very accurate.
I’m assuming it’s Marques K Brownlee High Definition. I don’t know what his middle name is. But that would be the K. Anyway, that’s my best guess.
I agree they do have greater access, but just because they have seen more displays don't necessarily equate to being a greater authority. You can still do something poorly many times over.
Of course, there are technical measurements that can't be disputed. But even here, it again goes back to subjectivity. Because while a display can be specced at 120hz or 600nits, it doesn't matter if YOU don't see the difference.
My point really is about seeing and hearing hardware for yourself and making your own judgement. Because in the end, it'll be you who's sitting in front of that display.
Yes, of course the final review that matters most is your own. But most people want things like color accuracy at this price point. There is no subjectivity to that. It either is or isn't. They also want to know how it works overall from a source that is the least biased. A random forum member generally has extreme bias trying to justify their purchase. If you are happy with it, that is great and all that matters in the end. I love my AirPods Max even though most consider them overpriced (they are, I got them on sale), and it did not review all that well. The reviews were a guide for me that helped decide if they may be a good fit for me or not. I trusted crinacle and Josh Valour (who gave them lukewarm reviews) far more than forum users.
There is no „happens to be“ serendipity to this. This is the exact reason why Apple told LG to develop a 27“ 5K panel back when they planned to elevate the iMac to „retina display“ standard. Without Apple, a 27“ 5K display panel would very probably never have existed.
With my LG ColorPrime 27" Thunderbolt 2 monitor and starting to have some issues, maybe because it's not connected through Thunderbolt, I am looking for another monitor to replace the monitor. This monitor cost $799 back in 2016, which is only $200 cheaper than the Apple Thunderbolt Display and it is a good color accurate monitor. Last year, I bought a Dell Ultrasharp U2719, which had disappointing colors and only have 85% P3, not good enough. I will probably relegate it to my work laptop.
I don't consider 27" 4K as a good alternative given the scaling issues, which is why I stick with non-retina displays for a while. However, I do want to upgrade to HI-DPI display since non-retina is getting a bit, well outdated and 4K isn't going to cut it.
While the Studio Display is expensive with the lack of height adjustable stand as standard, it's the better alternative to the Ultrafine 5k. I looked at used one, but given the amount of technical issues (e.g. image retention) and build quality, since I spending that much already. I just going to VESA mount it to a desktop stand for height adjustment. I will eventually go dual 5K on my main setup when I can afford it. I plan to keep the setup 10+ years. Still, I wish there are more 5K displays than just the LG Ultrafine 5k and Apple Studio Display. Still, I'm confident that the Apple Studio Display will last 10+ years as my 24" used Apple Cinema Display still works. Of course, I don't receive the display until the end of May/early June.
I don't consider 27" 4K as a good alternative given the scaling issues, which is why I stick with non-retina displays for a while. However, I do want to upgrade to HI-DPI display since non-retina is getting a bit, well outdated and 4K isn't going to cut it.
While the Studio Display is expensive with the lack of height adjustable stand as standard, it's the better alternative to the Ultrafine 5k. I looked at used one, but given the amount of technical issues (e.g. image retention) and build quality, since I spending that much already. I just going to VESA mount it to a desktop stand for height adjustment. I will eventually go dual 5K on my main setup when I can afford it. I plan to keep the setup 10+ years. Still, I wish there are more 5K displays than just the LG Ultrafine 5k and Apple Studio Display. Still, I'm confident that the Apple Studio Display will last 10+ years as my 24" used Apple Cinema Display still works. Of course, I don't receive the display until the end of May/early June.
Re: the Dell -- why are you dogging on a monitors specs when you know those before purchase?
It's like buying a tiny car and then complaining about not enough room -- ?