I'm genuinely surprised by the negative reviews of the Studio Display

[Zest28]

I'm an ASD owner/apologist but I don't agree with this. When I put my MBP14 next to my ASDs the MBP looks far better. Looks a sharper, colors look better and the scrolling thanks to ProMotion is noticeably smoother. Plus using Vivid I can get much more brightness - helpful when outside / ridiculous inside. This is why I am looking forward to the next display Apple releases - I too am a buyer on a 27" Promotion mini-LED Apple monitor.

The rest of the debate (IMHO) just points out that there is no monitor that I'm aware of that hits on all cylinders. I think Quu said earlier that it comes down to trading out sharp text on 5K for all the other features (and price) of 4K. That's right. In the same way that I notice the MBP14 screen looks better next to my ASD, I really noticed how much sharper the text is on my ASD vs. several expensive 4Ks I tried before buying two more ASDs. I wanted to like 4K because I wanted to save money and get HDR but I just didn't. For me the text is an "order qualifier" - I'm out if the text doesn't look near perfect. The rest of the specs don't matter to me. (Nor does the price)

Like so many things Apple, the ASD is pricey and has obvious spec compromises. As long as one understands those things they are making an informed buying decision. For my needs (and wants) the ASD is very good. The best thing going right now - but believe me I'll change it out if something better comes along.

Not sure which screen you have in your 14", but on my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, they look pretty similar except if you do HDR content.

I also checked the Apple Studio Display next to the Pro XDR display in the Apple Store many times, and it's really with HDR content when the differences start to show.

Also, it's kinda silly to expect mini-LED + promotion on a $1699 Apple Studio Display, unless it was a gaming monitor. These complaints are really out of touch with reality.

 

[tstafford]

I think this is a very accurate take on the monitor. And I do agree with you that text on the 5K looks sharper than a 4K when compared at the same 27" panel size. That's for sure a value add.

And the display on the laptops is ridiculously good. It's a shame that Apple hasn't provided a monitor for people who love these laptops that is on the same level as the laptop display. Like I said earlier in the thread in the teardown of the Studio it looked like it was going to have full array local dimming but they pivoted to not putting that MiniLED backlight in for whatever reason, it's a shame as then I do believe the Studio would be top tier.

I'm with you - but there are only so many of us that are willing to spend $3K on something like that.

I'm suspicious that the ASD specs and price are being impacted/influenced by the discontinuation (or pause?) of the 27" iMac. I am in the camp that Apple thinks people will buy the ASD and then either the Mini or Studio as the new iMac 27" and if that's the case the display had to come in way cheaper than $3K. FWIW - As a practical matter this is going to happen in my household. As soon as my wife is ready to part with her much loved 2015 iMac, I'll give her one of my ASDs and an Apple desktop or laptop. She will love the "all in one" of the ASD - camera/speakers and its tight Apple integration.

 

[Quu]

Not sure which screen you have in your 14", but on my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, they look pretty similar except if you do HDR content.

I also checked the Apple Studio Display next to the Pro XDR display in the Apple Store many times, and it's really with HDR content when the differences start to show.

Just look at anything dark, even in SDR and you'll see a difference. The full array local dimming on the laptop isn't just active in HDR, it's active all the time. So if you show a black scene on the studio it shows as a dark grey due to the always-on backlight.

That's where you really notice the contrast and how deep the blacks can get on a MiniLED panel. I mean yes it shines most heavily in HDR but blacks and such are noticeable even in SDR. See the below image.

On the left is an Apple Studio Display and in the bottom is the 10,000 MiniLED equipped MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro/Max. On the right is a much older LG LCD which isn't as good quality as the Studio.

 

[tstafford]

Not sure which screen you have in your 14", but on my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, they look pretty similar except if you do HDR content.

I also checked the Apple Studio Display next to the Pro XDR display in the Apple Store many times, and it's really with HDR content when the differences start to show.

Also, it's kinda silly to expect mini-LED + promotion on a $1699 Apple Studio Display, unless it was a gaming monitor.

That's the thing - it's all subjective. There are plenty of people who say that can't see the difference b/w 4K and 5K. To my eye, it's unbearably obvious!

On the Apple displays - I never had my XDR next to my ASD. I sold the XDR in favor of multiple ASDs because I didn't particularly care about HDR. But to my eye the MBP14 looks better than my ASDs. Not knocking the ASD just saying the MBP14 screen is amazing (and its leading feature IMO).

 

[Zest28]

Just look at anything dark, even in SDR and you'll see a difference. The full array local dimming on the laptop isn't just active in HDR, it's active all the time. So if you show a black scene on the studio it shows as a dark grey due to the always-on backlight.

That's where you really notice the contrast and how deep the blacks can get on a MiniLED panel. I mean yes it shines most heavily in HDR but blacks and such are noticeable even in SDR. See the below image.

On the left is an Apple Studio Display and in the bottom is the 10,000 MiniLED equipped MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro/Max. On the right is a much older LG LCD which isn't as good quality as the Studio.

Yes I know, the Apple Studio Display is bad with HDR. Apple sells the Pro XDR for that.

Anyway, I will leaving this thread now as I have said everything that needed to be said, especially how it is totally unrealistic it is to have promotion and mini-LED on this display for $1699 as the price would have been way higher.

 

[tornado99]

I'm an ASD owner/apologist but I don't agree with this. When I put my MBP14 next to my ASDs the MBP looks far better. Looks a sharper, colors look better and the scrolling thanks to ProMotion is noticeably smoother. Plus using Vivid I can get much more brightness - helpful when outside / ridiculous inside. This is why I am looking forward to the next display Apple releases - I too am a buyer on a 27" Promotion mini-LED Apple monitor.

The rest of the debate (IMHO) just points out that there is no monitor that I'm aware of that hits on all cylinders. I think Quu said earlier that it comes down to trading out sharp text on 5K for all the other features (and price) of 4K. That's right. In the same way that I notice the MBP14 screen looks better next to my ASD, I really noticed how much sharper the text is on my ASD vs. several expensive 4Ks I tried before buying two more ASDs. I wanted to like 4K because I wanted to save money and get HDR but I just didn't. For me the text is an "order qualifier" - I'm out if the text doesn't look near perfect. The rest of the specs don't matter to me. (Nor does the price)

Like so many things Apple, the ASD is pricey and has obvious spec compromises. As long as one understands those things they are making an informed buying decision. For my needs (and wants) the ASD is very good. The best thing going right now - but believe me I'll change it out if something better comes along.

Have you ever tried a 24" 4K monitor like the LG Ultrafine?

I can believe the difference between 165 ppi and 220 ppi is noticeable, but for me 185 ppi and 220 ppi are indistinguishable in text quality.

 

[tstafford]

Have you ever tried a 24" 4K monitor like the LG Ultrafine?

I can believe the difference between 165 ppi and 220 ppi is noticeable, but for me 185 ppi and 220 ppi are indistinguishable in text quality.

I haven't. I want at least a 27" display. But it makes sense to me that higher PPI would reduce the issue (although not eliminate it). I also believe that the arguments around the overhead put on the GPU by scaling are overstated in 2023. That might have been true five years ago, but not now. It's just about the look.

 

[Quu]

Yes I know, the Apple Studio Display is bad with HDR. Apple sells the Pro XDR for that.

Anyway, I will leaving this thread now as I have said everything that needed to be said, especially how it is totally unrealistic it is to have promotion and mini-LED on this display for $1699 as the price would have been way higher.

You should read my full reply that you quoted because that example isn't in HDR, the miniLED backlight is active in all content, even SDR content.

And I think the main point is that a monitor that costs $1699-$1999 (with an adjustable stand) is too much for an SDR monitor. If it was HDR that price would be justifiable. That's the point. It's HDR money for SDR quality.

 

[profcutter]

Thanks for proving my point exactly. You think a $5000 Audeze headphone makes no difference and that is because you are not the target audience.

Me myself, I own $12.000 DAC's even with a few $4000 headphones myself, including your cheaper AKG 240 (was my 1st headphone when I started producing), and I know exactly how most people will say how useless this stuff is and makes no difference.

All I am saying is, there are plenty expensive displays that are not made for "content consumption" and high-refresh is not needed. In fact, some of these "poor features" are intentional as low brightness monitors are more accurate for print, then high brightness monitors. This is why you see that some have them have external screen to block external lights coming on the displays, as they don't have a very high brightness. We might say they are overpriced, but for a certain group of people, it's exactly what they need and worth it to them.

I’ll agree that the studio definitely makes sense to folks who would pay 1000 dollars each for fancy speaker cables. As you saw, I’ve noted that frame rates aren’t a particular concern of mine. And you’re right, if you’re the market that apple is targeting with the display, then I’m definitely out of that market. Thing is, there are alot more lower-budget producers like me than there are folks who can spend 12k on a DAC or 4k on headphones. Some of us are more value-conscious, and for us the apple display represents a bad value proposition. Further, if your budget is so stratospheric, doesn’t it make sense to buy either a 6k display for 5000 dollars, or a Sony mastering display? As folks have noted, studio is just a name, there are far far better displays on the market for much more money. As a display that matches our MBPs, the studio display simply doesn’t make a compelling use case.

 

[tornado99]

I also feel like Apple is pushing people who may not necessarily need a 27" display into the ASD. Most consumers are not digital media creators with large design studios. We have not very deep desks in home or office environments. For this 24-25 inches is the sweet spot - hence the iMac being that size.

Yet nothing new from any of the big companies in the 24" size category. The LG 24" Ultrafine is just not very practical in average home environments unless you want to run around controlling all your lighting and having permanents blinds drawn on your windows to diffuse every reflections.

I imagine that an iMac sized Studio Display 4.5K just wouldn't have enough profit in it.

 

[CalMin]

I don't need to use a monitor for days or weeks to identify its flaws. The lack of a removable power cable, the lack of native VESA mounting, the inability to change the mount at all after purchase etc

I mean this just tells me you bought the wrong displays. The studio display uses a panel from LG, an old panel that they've already surpassed with IPS Black technology. There are also OLED displays and MiniLED equipped displays with over 1,000 local dimming zones etc

Indeed, it is objectively bad when compared with monitors that have standard features like a removable power cord. And displays that come with really great stands that allow for swivel, height adjustment and tilt OR the mounting of VESA-compatible arms and mounts.

Again you just bought the wrong monitors. I mean try a Dell U2723QE for better contrast, it looks incredible. Or try one of the OLED ultrawides like the Alienware AW3423DW for per-pixel dimming etc - The 5K wins in resolution and text clarity due to its high pixel density and RGB sub-pixel layout over the Alienware but it loses in refresh rate, contrast, peak brightness, and its lack of true HDR capability. And that's not including flexibility in usage (due to the non-removable power cord and poor mount options post-purchase). That's a lot of downsides, unfortunately.

It's kinda crazy that I could buy 3 x Dell U2723QE's for the price of one Studio Display with the height adjustable stand (which comes standard with all the Dells U2723QE's of course). It's just terrible value for what is essentially a commodity.

I don't think the comparison between Android phones and iPhones is really appropriate because there the software dominates the experience. This is more like comparing keyboards or mice, it's really not all that subjective. I mean you either want the 5K resolution and are willing to give up all those other specifications and features or you feel 4K is good enough at the resolution level and keep literally every other desirable feature of a monitor.

I will say this, had the Studio Display had full-array local dimming on the level of a MacBook Pro like my 16" M1 Max I would have paid up to $2,999 for one instantly. Shame they left that out, there were signs in the teardown that it was a possibility and they scraped it and that is a real shame.

Respectfully - I think we will have to agree to disagree on many of the points above. I just don't see how it is possible to debate these points when you haven't used the monitor extensively as I have had the chance to. I can't convey how much the specs fail to tell the story of this display. Nothing else on the market has 5K, 600nits of brightness, seamless MacOS integration and top tier build quality. It's a delight to use. Again - compare a $2,000 Dell Laptop to a $2,000 MacBook Pro and you will see what I mean - even if the Dell Laptop has better specs on paper.

Where I think we are aligned on how expensive it is. It costs more than it should - but don't all Apple products? I mean, a Porsche 911 also costs more than it should and I think that most people would like a prefer it over a Toyota even if the Toyota specs were better than the Porsche!

 

[Quu]

Respectfully - I think we will have to agree to disagree on many of the points above. I just don't see how it is possible to debate these points when you haven't used the monitor extensively as I have had the chance to.

I mean look, you bought the monitor so you can't really ever be subjective about it. People on here will defend a lump of coal if they spent $1,600 on it.

The facts are the facts, I mean you made a thread about the negative reviews of the monitor, and the reviewers laid out all the facts as to why they didn't like it, you can totally disagree with them about it but that doesn't change reality. At the end of the day they compared it to other monitors that are available, it wasn't reviewed in a vacuum.

Sometimes Apple does get it wrong, the 2013 Mac Pro is a good example of that, they basically threw it right under the bus with the 2019 revamp that has been universally loved by comparison.

Another good example is the 2016-2019 15" MacBook Pro with its god awful keyboards that resulted in a class action lawsuit. I kept my 15" MacBook Pro from 2015 until they resolved the issue with the 2019 16" MacBook Pro which went back to a reliable keyboard. I wasn't going to spend Porche money (as you put it) on a bad product. Then the M1 Max variant came out in 2021 and I upgraded again, I'm willing to spend for good products, the Studio has too many compromises in my opinion and I'm certainly not alone in that based on the reviews from professional product reviewers.

 

[profcutter]

I mean look, you bought the monitor so you can't really ever be subjective about it. People on here will defend a lump of coal if they spent $1,600 on it.

The facts are the facts, I mean you made a thread about the negative reviews of the monitor, and the reviewers laid out all the facts as to why they didn't like it, you can totally disagree with them about it but that doesn't change reality. At the end of the day they compared it to other monitors that are available, it wasn't reviewed in a vacuum.

Sometimes Apple does get it wrong, the 2013 Mac Pro is a good example of that, they basically threw it right under the bus with the 2019 revamp that has been universally loved by comparison.

Another good example is the 2016-2019 15" MacBook Pro with its god awful keyboards that resulted in a class action lawsuit. I kept my 15" MacBook Pro from 2015 until they resolved the issue with the 2019 16" MacBook Pro which went back to a reliable keyboard. I wasn't going to spend Porche money (as you put it) on a bad product. Then the M1 Max variant came out in 2021 and I upgraded again, I'm willing to spend for good products, the Studio has too many compromises in my opinion and I'm certainly not alone in that based on the reviews from professional product reviewers.

Well, I think many of us harken back to earlier mac displays. Like the cinema displays and the thunderbolt, etc. They weren’t cheap, but they were state of the art. The studio just doesn’t fit the same niche.

 

[Quu]

Well, I think many of us harken back to earlier mac displays. Like the cinema displays and the thunderbolt, etc. They weren’t cheap, but they were state of the art. The studio just doesn’t fit the same niche.

Indeed, I had several of the 30" ones myself between 2007-2018, great monitors I actually kept mine for so long that I had to use multiple adapters with them, first an active Dual-Link DVI to Mini-Display Port adapter and later an additional adapter to turn the Mini Display Port into USB-C for my laptop to use.

I do think the Pro Display XDR fit that bill of being a stand-out class-leading display when it first launched in 2019. The 6K resolution, the 576 dimming zones and flexible mounting with magnetic retention. I was very close to buying two but I just felt the size was too big once I'd gotten used to 27" (and I did have 30" before so I was used to 3x30 and what that meant usability-wise on my desk).