I'm genuinely surprised by the negative reviews of the Studio Display

[jabbr]

My point is that you are just like the rest of the human race when it comes to being able to tell any difference between modern DACs. We reached transparency with cheap consumer DAC designs around a decade ago. Meaning that in listening tests, people cannot tell them apart from expensive designs. This is nothing like the situation of consumer computer displays.

All i had to do was use a studio display next to my 14” MBP to know that the studio has worse display technology.

 

[Zest28]

My point is that you are just like the rest of the human race when it comes to being able to tell any difference between modern DACs. We reached transparency with cheap consumer DAC designs around a decade ago. Meaning that in listening tests, people cannot tell them apart from expensive designs. This is nothing like the situation of consumer computer displays.

All i had to do was use a studio display next to my 14” MBP to know that the studio has worse display technology.

Just keep proofing my point exactly. I expected nothing less from MacRumors claiming a $9 DAC sounds the same as a $12.000 DAC.

But back to your 14" MBP. First all, there doesn't exist 27-ich or 32-inch external MacBook Pro displays on the market. And based on the 14" MBP, 16" MBP and Mac Studio prices, such a 27" display would cost atleast $4000 based on linear interpolation. So how exactly does this make the Apple Studio Display overpriced?

But now back to reality. With external displays, there are trade offs to be made. And the only mini-LED with promotion that manufacturers can make are gaming monitors. And that is not what monitors like the Apple Studio Display, Apple Pro XDR and other high-end monitors (which are also all 60hz) are targeting.

 

[Zest28]

In any case, people really need to get a reality check attacking Apple for not selling a $1699 Apple Studio Display that has promotion + mini-LED.

Probably my rough estimate of $4000 of such a display is on the low side as it's going to be a world 1st, so there is alot of R&D involved.

 

[Quu]

It's funny to me that there is this comparison about headphones and talking about what people are mastering their songs using. You can't even edit HDR video on the Studio Display. Something professionals making movies would need. It's not in the same ballpark as professional headphones.

It's just a consumer display in the same realm as Airpods Max. And it has all those gimmicks like the webcam that follows you around the room. To put it in the same league as reference headphones is ridiculous.

 

[Quu]

In any case, people really need to get a reality check attacking Apple for not selling a $1699 Apple Studio Display that has promotion + mini-LED.

Probably my rough estimate of $4000 of such a display is on the low side as it's going to be a world 1st, so there is alot of R&D involved.

There is already the Coolermaster 27" 4K with 576 Zone backlight and 160Hz refresh rate. It's $899. There's also a Chinese model on Amazon for $699 with 1157 zone backlight. Same 4K IPS panel at 160Hz.

These are being discussed on reddit as their image quality is quite astounding for the price. Both P3 wide colour gamut and infinite contrast ratios when it comes to the zones being turned off, 5000:1 when zones are active etc

Apple delivered a 10,000 Mini-LED equipped backlight on a 16" MacBook Pro with a 160 PPI and 120Hz refresh rate for $300 more than the previous model which lacked such a display. It's well within their capability.

 

[tornado99]

The main issue with the Apple Studio Display is that it uses a 2014 tech IPS panel with blooming and mediocre contrast ratio of 1000:1 (tested by rtings).

Dell seems to be innovators here with their IPS Black technology of 2000:1 contrast ratio. Although you have a choice only of 31.5" 220 ppi or 27" 163 ppi panels.

Also the LG Ultrafine 24" 185 ppi gets 1400:1 contrast ratio.

If Samsung uses the same 2014 LG panel they bring nothing new, but if they use a rumoured newer BOE panel it may up the quality.

Apple could have added a A-TW Polarizer to the ASD which would be a signficant step up in image quality (see https://tftcentral.co.uk/news/lg-32gq850-aka-32gq85x-with-1440p-260hz-and-a-tw-polarizer).

I get the feeling a lot of monitor design is about profit margins these days rather than technological limitations.

TL-DR The best monitor in the consumer market right now is the Dell 6K as you get both very high ppi AND 2000:1 contrast ratio. If Dell made a 27", or even better 24" version I would buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[Zest28]

There is already the Coolermaster 27" 4K with 576 Zone backlight and 160Hz refresh rate. It's $899. There's also a Chinese model on Amazon for $699 with 1157 zone backlight. Same 4K IPS panel at 160Hz.

These are being discussed on reddit as their image quality is quite astounding for the price. Both P3 wide colour gamut and infinite contrast ratios when it comes to the zones being turned off, 5000:1 when zones are active etc

Apple delivered a 10,000 Mini-LED equipped backlight on a 16" MacBook Pro with a 160 PPI and 120Hz refresh rate for $300 more than the previous model which lacked such a display. It's well within their capability.

Put it next to the Apple Studio Display, Pro XDR, 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, M1 12.9 iPad Pro. You will see that all these displays look the same (except for HDR content).

Try do the same with the CoolMaster 4K and I am willing to bet that the CoolMaster 4K will not look the same as those Apple displays.

And besides, the 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro has 5 times more dimming zones in a 16" inch format too. Are you really comparing this display to the 27" MacBook Pro display version?

I got bad news for you, don't expect the rumoured mini-led + promotion version of the Apple Studio Display to cost $899.

 

[dotnet]

The 5K wins in resolution and text clarity due to its high pixel density and RGB sub-pixel layout over the Alienware but it loses in refresh rate, contrast, peak brightness, and its lack of true HDR capability.

Sounds like the ASD is the ideal computer monitor, and the Alienware is ideal for watching movies (and perhaps playing E-sports).

And that's not including flexibility in usage (due to the non-removable power cord and poor mount options post-purchase). That's a lot of downsides, unfortunately.

The power cord is actually removable in case it gets damaged. You’d have to source a replacement from Apple, of course, but I consider having to replace the power cord a quite remote possibility. This is not a Lightning cable.

The VESA mount option provides ultimate flexibility, if that’s what one needs (it would be my choice).

The lot of downsides don’t really stand out from your post.

 

[Zest28]

The main issue with the Apple Studio Display is that it uses a 2014 tech IPS panel with blooming and mediocre contrast ratio of 1000:1 (tested by rtings).

Dell seems to be innovators here with their IPS Black technology of 2000:1 contrast ratio. Although you have a choice only of 31.5" 220 ppi or 27" 163 ppi panels.

Also the LG Ultrafine 24" 185 ppi gets 1400:1 contrast ratio.

If Samsung uses the same 2014 LG panel they bring nothing new, but if they use a rumoured newer BOE panel it may up the quality.

Apple could have added a A-TW Polarizer to the ASD which would be a signficant step up in image quality (see https://tftcentral.co.uk/news/lg-32gq850-aka-32gq85x-with-1440p-260hz-and-a-tw-polarizer).

I get the feeling a lot of monitor design is about profit margins these days rather than technological limitations.

But the Apple Studio Display has been tuned to look exactly like all other Apple displays, which is what it's main strength is. What you create on the Apple Studio Display (except for HDR content), will look the same on your iPhone, iPad and MacBook Pro.

I'm sure you can find better specs displays, but will those displays look like other Apple displays? If you are digital media creator and your audience consumes it on Apple devices, this is a very great tool.

 

[Zest28]

It's funny to me that there is this comparison about headphones and talking about what people are mastering their songs using. You can't even edit HDR video on the Studio Display. Something professionals making movies would need. It's not in the same ballpark as professional headphones.

It's just a consumer display in the same realm as Airpods Max. And it has all those gimmicks like the webcam that follows you around the room. To put it in the same league as reference headphones is ridiculous.

If you need to edit HDR video, Apple has the Pro XDR for you. The Apple Studio Display is not Apple their best display. It's just a cheap alternative for those who don't need HDR.

Are you saying the Sennheiser HD 600/HD 600 are not studio headphones because they cannot do things like $5000 Audeze or Focal Utopia headphones can do?

 

[dotnet]

You can't even edit HDR video on the Studio Display. Something professionals making movies would need.

So, you reckon those professionals would rather edit their HDR movies on your Alienware monitor? 😆

For this kind of profession Apple make the Pro Display XDR.

 

[Quu]

Put it next to the Apple Studio Display, Pro XDR, 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, M1 12.9 iPad Pro. You will see that all these displays look the same (except for HDR content).

Try do the same with the CoolMaster 4K and I am willing to bet that the CoolMaster 4K will not look the same as those Apple displays.

And besides, the 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro has 5 times more dimming zones in a 16" inch format too. Are you really comparing this display to the 27" MacBook Pro display version?

I got bad news for you, don't expect the rumoured mini-led + promotion version of the Apple Studio Display to cost $899.

The Coolermaster looks great in HDR. It has the same zone count as the Pro Display XDR btw. And I have my 16" MacBook Pro next to the Pro Display XDR on several occasions, the laptop looks better, way way better. And it should it's much newer (2021 vs 2019) and has a much much higher zone count (2,500 or so vs 576 on the Pro Display XDR).

And yes I am comparing them because Apple increased the price by $300 and added this incredible display. And no I do not expect apple to do a Studio display with MiniLED for $799 when they have released a $1,599 SDR display. They will take customers for mugs again and release them at $3,999 (27" XDR) and $4,999 (32" XDR) probably.

Sounds like the ASD is the ideal computer monitor, and the Alienware is ideal for watching movies (and perhaps playing E-sports).

Because.. it is a gaming monitor. There are 4K OLED monitors that look better than the Apple Studio display for $1,200. Ones with standard RGB sub-pixel layouts and 160 PPI. They're just not as common, they use panels from BOLED while the Alienware uses an LG, the same company that makes the 5K panel in the 27" iMac and Studio Display.

I did also mention the Coolermaster IPS 4K 160Hz P3 colour 576 zone MiniLED for $899. You did not quote that little nugget. Looks better than the Studio and costs almost half as much as the base studio, well under half vs the one with a proper stand included.

The power cord is actually removable in case it gets damaged. You’d have to source a replacement from Apple, of course, but I consider having to replace the power cord a quite remote possibility. This is not a Lightning cable.

The VESA mount option provides ultimate flexibility, if that’s what one needs (it would be my choice).

The power cord is removable if you tug on it like you're going to break it and risk warping the metal and potentially ruining your warranty etc - I've seen people remove it, it's not meant to be removed by end-users and you do risk damaging it due to the force required.

I didn't think I needed to explain why a removable power cord is an important feature, it's a standard feature of every monitor except this one for many good reasons including changing the cord if it gets damaged, routing the cables easier when it's put in a position, getting shorter or longer cables, using it in countries that use different power plugs etc

The lot of downsides don’t really stand out from your post.

Well, there's no talking to you then is there? I mean you'd have to be willfully ignoring the downsides in that case.

 

[Quu]

So, you reckon those professionals would rather edit their HDR movies on your Alienware monitor? 😆

For this kind of profession Apple make the Pro Display XDR.

Not at all but it actually can. It's colour accurate and hits 1000 nits peak brightness and is HDR10 certified. If I was editing HDR video I would get a proper studio display like the Pro Display XDR, however, the 16" laptop is also quite capable at this role.

You guys are getting too hung up on me mentioning a gaming monitor that has some superior specs to the Apply Display, it's OLED and costs significantly less was my point, it loses in resolution and wins in every other metric.

 

[Quu]

It's just a cheap alternative for those who don't need HDR.

That's the thing though, it's not so cheap haha at $1999 with the adjustable stand it's incredibly bad value, especially when you can get HDR displays for half the price. I'm glad we finally agree on something

Are you saying the Sennheiser HD 600/HD 600 are not studio headphones because they cannot do things like $5000 Audeze or Focal Utopia headphones can do?

I'm tired of this audio analogy. When you're editing a movie you literally cannot do it on this display if your movie contains HDR content. You cannot do it accurately because the display cannot reach the required contrast ratios and brightness levels. Simple as that.

They call it a studio display, it's a consumer display. This isn't for use in all kinds of studios, music studios sure, editing studios? not anymore, the bar for video has been raised due to HDR.

 

[Zest28]

The Coolermaster looks great in HDR. It has the same zone count as the Pro Display XDR btw. And I have my 16" MacBook Pro next to the Pro Display XDR on several occasions, the laptop looks better, way way better. And it should it's much newer (2021 vs 2019) and has a much much higher zone count (2,500 or so vs 576 on the Pro Display XDR).

And yes I am comparing them because Apple increased the price by $300 and added this incredible display. And no I do not expect apple to do a Studio display with MiniLED for $799 when they have released a $1,599 SDR display. They will take customers for mugs again and release them at $3,999 (27" XDR) and $4,999 (32" XDR) probably.



Because.. it is a gaming monitor. There are 4K OLED monitors that look better than the Apple Studio display for $1,200. Ones with standard RGB sub-pixel layouts and 160 PPI. They're just not as common, they use panels from BOLED while the Alienware uses an LG, the same company that makes the 5K panel in the 27" iMac and Studio Display.

I did also mention the Coolermaster IPS 4K 160Hz P3 colour 576 zone MiniLED for $899. You did not quote that little nugget. Looks better than the Studio and costs almost half as much as the base studio, well under half vs the one with a proper stand included.



The power cord is removable if you tug on it like you're going to break it and risk warping the metal and potentially ruining your warranty etc - I've seen people remove it, it's not meant to be removed by end-users and you do risk damaging it due to the force required.

I didn't think I needed to explain why a removable power cord is an important feature, it's a standard feature of every monitor except this one for many good reasons including changing the cord if it gets damaged, routing the cables easier when it's put in a position, getting shorter or longer cables, using it in countries that use different power plugs etc



Well, there's no talking to you then is there? I mean you'd have to be willfully ignoring the downsides in that case.

I actually did manage to find some measurements of your gaming monitor and it's pretty much useless for the target audience of Apple displays. That thing is not even colour accurate.

But I see that this CoolerMaster display indeed has very good ratings from reviewers, so I suggest that you pick one up and don't even bother waiting for the mini-LED + promotion version of the Apple Studio Display, because I'm sure you will go mad when you see the price of that one.

And really, comparing gaming monitors to monitors from Apple is just wrong. They are targeted for different things.

And btw, I'm not hating on gaming monitors, I'm actually shopping for one myself later this year for a new PC desktop build.

 

[Quu]

It's not a professional monitor, it's a gaming monitor.

I have not seen this Coolmaster in person yet so I will refrain on commenting on it. But these gaming monitors will not be on the same level as the upcoming mini-LED + Promotion Apple Studio Display version that Apple is rumoured to working on.

So don't get your hopes up that it cost $899 or even $1699, but much much more.

I already said previously in this very thread that if Apple had put MiniLED into the 27" Studio Display I would pay up to $2,999 USD for it. I do not need my hopes up, I need a good product.

The studio display is charging HDR MiniLED money for an SDR 2017 panel. That is the issue. The other things like the stand and power cord are just insulting for the price they want for this old panel.

I've seen the Coolermaster and the Pro Display XDR next to my own 16" MacBook Pro. The Coolermaster doesn't look as good as the laptop screen but it does look better than the Pro Display XDR, especially off-axis with less colour shift than the Pro Display XDR.

 

[Zest28]

I already said previously in this very thread that if Apple had put MiniLED into the 27" Studio Display I would pay up to $2,999 USD for it. I do not need my hopes up, I need a good product.

The studio display is charging HDR MiniLED money for an SDR 2017 panel. That is the issue. The other things like the stand and power cord are just insulting for the price they want for this old panel.

I've seen the Coolermaster and the Pro Display XDR next to my own 16" MacBook Pro. The Coolermaster doesn't look as good as the laptop screen but it does look better than the Pro Display XDR, especially off-axis with less colour shift than the Pro Display XDR.

In any case, just get one of those mini-LED promotion gaming monitors and save alot of money. I checked the Coolermaster you linked and it looks quite good according to reviews, so why not?

There is no point of wasting time and energy on a display that is clearly not for you.

 

[tornado99]

But the Apple Studio Display has been tuned to look exactly like all other Apple displays, which is what it's main strength is. What you create on the Apple Studio Display (except for HDR content), will look the same on your iPhone, iPad and MacBook Pro.

I'm sure you can find better specs displays, but will those displays look like other Apple displays? If you are digital media creator and your audience consumes it on Apple devices, this is a very great tool.

That narrows it to a very niche market, who will probably buy the 6K display instead.

Also, as for "tuning" you can calibrate any display in the world with a colorimeter and generate an .icc profile, but perhaps you are referring to something more specific.

 

[Zest28]

That narrows it to a very niche market, who will probably buy the 6K display instead.

Also, as for "tuning" you can calibrate any display in the world with a colorimeter and generate an .icc profile, but perhaps you are referring to something more specific.

No that is true. It's the calibration that Apple does with their display.

There seems to be some minor differences, because if you take the calibration that BenQ does for their own displays, it's not a 100% match with the calibration from Apple.

And true, it's a very niche market.

 

[Quu]

In any case, just get one of those mini-LED promotion gaming monitors and save alot of money. I checked the Coolermaster you linked and it looks quite good according to reviews, so why not?

There is no point of wasting time and energy on a display that is clearly not for you.

I'm not debating in this thread as a potential purchaser of any of these displays. I already have a Sony reference display and my MacBook Pro M1 for HDR and for SDR content I have the Dell U2723QE which has a more up-to-date SDR panel from LG (with IPS Black technology).

I'm pretty good for monitors. I was hoping that the Studio would have some kind of MiniLED backlight when it launched but it wasn't to be so I went in another direction. The Pro Display XDR was something I had also considered but I didn't want a 32" panel, I like 27", that's just a personal preference as I like to have 3 x 27" panels together and 3 x 32" would be a bit too much head turning for me

 

[tstafford]

TL-DR The best monitor in the consumer market right now is the Dell 6K as you get both very high ppi AND 2000:1 contrast ratio. If Dell made a 27", or even better 24" version I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Is this available for sale? I'm for sure interested in a 32" 6K. I thought this was a future product launch.

 

[Quu]

Is this available for sale? I'm for sure interested in a 32" 6K. I thought this was a future product launch.

Coming soon (TM).

 

[tstafford]

Put it next to the Apple Studio Display, Pro XDR, 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, M1 12.9 iPad Pro. You will see that all these displays look the same (except for HDR content).

I'm an ASD owner/apologist but I don't agree with this. When I put my MBP14 next to my ASDs the MBP looks far better. Looks a sharper, colors look better and the scrolling thanks to ProMotion is noticeably smoother. Plus using Vivid I can get much more brightness - helpful when outside / ridiculous inside. This is why I am looking forward to the next display Apple releases - I too am a buyer on a 27" Promotion mini-LED Apple monitor.

The rest of the debate (IMHO) just points out that there is no monitor that I'm aware of that hits on all cylinders. I think Quu said earlier that it comes down to trading out sharp text on 5K for all the other features (and price) of 4K. That's right. In the same way that I notice the MBP14 screen looks better next to my ASD, I really noticed how much sharper the text is on my ASD vs. several expensive 4Ks I tried before buying two more ASDs. I wanted to like 4K because I wanted to save money and get HDR but I just didn't. For me the text is an "order qualifier" - I'm out if the text doesn't look near perfect. The rest of the specs don't matter to me. (Nor does the price)

Like so many things Apple, the ASD is pricey and has obvious spec compromises. As long as one understands those things they are making an informed buying decision. For my needs (and wants) the ASD is very good. The best thing going right now - but believe me I'll change it out if something better comes along.

 

[tstafford]

Coming soon (TM).

That's what I thought. The post said it was "in the market right now" which seemed off to me. I'm interested in the Dell but concerned about 450 nits SDR, 60Hz and the resolution is slightly different than the XDR. I want to see some reviews on it before I would pull the trigger. My guess is the Apple Promotion 27" will be about the same price as the Dell and I'll stick with Apple. We'll see.

 

[Quu]

I'm an ASD owner/apologist but I don't agree with this. When I put my MBP14 next to my ASDs the MBP looks far better. Looks a sharper, colors look better and the scrolling thanks to ProMotion is noticeably smoother. Plus using Vivid I can get much more brightness - helpful when outside / ridiculous inside. This is why I am looking forward to the next display Apple releases - I too am a buyer on a 27" Promotion mini-LED Apple monitor.

The rest of the debate (IMHO) just points out that there is no monitor that I'm aware of that hits on all cylinders. I think Quu said earlier that it comes down to trading out sharp text on 5K for all the other features (and price) of 4K. That's right. In the same way that I notice the MBP14 screen looks better next to my ASD, I really noticed how much sharper the text is on my ASD vs. several expensive 4Ks I tried before buying two more ASDs. I wanted to like 4K because I wanted to save money and get HDR but I just didn't. For me the text is an "order qualifier" - I'm out if the text doesn't look near perfect. The rest of the specs don't matter to me. (Nor does the price)

Like so many things Apple, the ASD is pricey and has obvious spec compromises. As long as one understands those things they are making an informed buying decision. For my needs (and wants) the ASD is very good. The best thing going right now - but believe me I'll change it out if something better comes along.

I think this is a very accurate take on the monitor. And I do agree with you that text on the 5K looks sharper than a 4K when compared at the same 27" panel size. That's for sure a value add.

And the display on the laptops is ridiculously good. It's a shame that Apple hasn't provided a monitor for people who love these laptops that is on the same level as the laptop display. Like I said earlier in the thread in the teardown of the Studio it looked like it was going to have full array local dimming but they pivoted to not putting that MiniLED backlight in for whatever reason, it's a shame as then I do believe the Studio would be top tier.