I'm genuinely surprised by the negative reviews of the Studio Display

[xraydoc]

It is not comparable because mobile devices like Android smartphones had 120hz screens for years, thus Apple had to respond to keep their product competitive.

Professional / productivity monitors that Apple is competing against are all 60hz, even $5000+ monitors from Eizo and Asus.

The only monitors that are 120hz or higher are all gaming monitors and that is not the competition of Apple their monitors. So I don't believe those "promotion" rumours that people are talking about if you look at the current market.

I actually anticipate Apple releasing a 120Hz ProMotion display. I mean, everything else has it (iPad Pro, iPhone Pro, MacBook Pro), so I think eventually it's coming. It won't be 144+ Hz, as clearly anything that high is targeted at games. But I do believe it's coming at some point.

Now, do I expect a 32" 6K 120Hz display this spring? No. I don't think (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) one Thunderbolt 4 connection has enough bandwidth for that. 27" 5K at 120Hz? Yeah, that might be possible since I've already got two 5K 60Hz ASDs running off one Thunderbolt 4 connection, though I do believe there's some compression involved.

But expect 120Hz displays from Apple to command a significant price premium over 60Hz models.

 

[CalMin]

In the monitor market, there are 2 types of monitors:
1. Productivity monitors.
2. Gaming monitors.

And the monitor that you describe falls in the category of gaming monitors, which is not what Apple makes.

BenQ also has a seperate line of monitors aimed at productivity / professional and an other line aimed at gaming. And it's only their gaming monitors that do 144hz+.

The monitor he described is basically a larger external version of the MacBook Pro Display. I don’t know why that would be considered a gaming monitor - it’s never been described that way on the MacBook.

Personally I don’t think the ASD misses high refresh rate. It doesn’t have the same crunchy scrolling look that 60hz displays have on iPads and phones. At least I don’t notice it as much.

That said, I don’t know why Apple wouldn’t make a ProMotion display given that many of their “Pro’ devices have this feature?

 

[Zest28]

The monitor he described is basically a larger external version of the MacBook Pro Display. I don’t know why that would be considered a gaming monitor - it’s never been described that way on the MacBook.

Personally I don’t think the ASD misses high refresh rate. It doesn’t have the same crunchy scrolling look that 60hz displays have on iPads and phones. At least I don’t notice it as much.

That said, I don’t know why Apple wouldn’t make a ProMotion display given that many of their “Pro’ devices have this feature?

Because professional monitors don't have high refresh rates, only gaming monitors have. Even $30.000 reference monitors "only" do 60hz.

But maybe I am wrong, and Apple will do it. I'm just saying how the current monitor landscape looks like and it will be very surprising to me if Apple is able to create such a display.

 

[tstafford]

Because professional monitors don't have high refresh rates, only gaming monitors have. Even $30.000 reference monitors "only" do 60hz.

But maybe I am wrong, and Apple will do it. I'm just saying how the current monitor landscape looks like and it will be very surprising to me if Apple is able to create such a display.

I get your point for sure. But let's be honest - Apple does things differently! The specs of the ASD don't match anything else out there. It's worse in some ways, better in others, strange in some, and since it's Apple it's $$$. And like other Apple stuff, I like it.

FWIW - I'm a likely buyer on a ProMotion mini-LED 27" and would pass one of my ASDs down to my kids. I think there are others like me that would enjoy an even better 27" monitor. The ASD is fine (better than fine) but put it next to my MBP14 and it is immediately clear that the laptop screen is better. Why not get that experience on my desktop?

 

[jr5x]

It is not comparable because mobile devices like Android smartphones had 120hz screens for years, thus Apple had to respond to keep their product competitive.

Professional / productivity monitors that Apple is competing against are all 60hz, even $5000+ monitors from Eizo and Asus.

The only monitors that are 120hz or higher are all gaming monitors and that is not the competition of Apple their monitors. So I don't believe those "promotion" rumours that people are talking about if you look at the current market.

I just did a test between my Dell U2718Q 4K 27" and my MBP 16 M1 for scrolling PDF documents. I didn't expect there to be a difference because I've never noticed it before when using one monitor or the other.

But the MBP's ProMotion display was noticeably smoother and more pleasant to use when scrolling through a document. It wasn't a big difference, but I look at text all day long and if Apple does put out such a monitor - even if it's not what the industry has been doing - I want it.

 

[profcutter]

Again, I think the title of this thread is provocative. I don't think it's surprising at all that when folks shell out the money for a premium monitor, they want... a premium monitor. I'm not sure who in this space was asking for a camera with center stage, though it's a nice gimmick. I'm not sure who needed a monitor with an A-series chip inside. The fact remains that Apple's price is quite high for a panel based on 10 year old tech, and while yes, there aren't many other options for a 5k display, it seems that with the amount apple is asking, you should get something more for the money, namely a display that keeps up with the HDR capabilities of the MacBook Pro line.

 

[jr5x]

For this kind of money, in the next Apple displays I want:
- Mini-LED, OLED, or other new panel technology
- ProMotion
- Excellent built-in webcam with Face ID

EDITED TO ADD:

- Quiet, with silent or (even better) no fans or other noisy components

 

[jabbr]

and hopefully better quality control when it comes to buzzing / whining components

 

[CalMin]

Again, I think the title of this thread is provocative. I don't think it's surprising at all that when folks shell out the money for a premium monitor, they want... a premium monitor. I'm not sure who in this space was asking for a camera with center stage, though it's a nice gimmick. I'm not sure who needed a monitor with an A-series chip inside. The fact remains that Apple's price is quite high for a panel based on 10 year old tech, and while yes, there aren't many other options for a 5k display, it seems that with the amount apple is asking, you should get something more for the money, namely a display that keeps up with the HDR capabilities of the MacBook Pro line.

Yes. The title of the thread was provocative because I ordered the display as soon as it was announced and was one of the first to get it. In between ordering it and when I got it, I watched and read every single review that I could find about it. At one point I even though about canceling the order.

When I got it, I thought I may as well plug it in and give it a go and then return it if it sucked. I was absolutely (and continue to be) delighted with it. It’s stunning. I was caught off guard by just how good it was. After the reviews I was expecting it to be junk.

The display quality is better than many claimed “HDR” monitors. It integrates really well with MacOS and is everything that other displays that I had bought and returned were not. The color accuracy is exceptional to my non color professional eyes and the 5K resolution looks better than any of the 4K displays that went back to the store. And the speakers - Just wow. No need to clutter my desk with computer speakers. The webcam is adequate and I only use it for work. My coworkers wouldn’t appreciate me looking any better or worse on a Zoom or Teams call...

I do think it’s too expensive. But it has been one of those instances where the value proposition has been enough (just) to offset the cost. There is an intangible Apple’y quality to it. It is like comparing a MacBook to a high end Dell or Lenovo laptop at the same price point. The specs do not tell the story.

and hopefully better quality control when it comes to buzzing / whining components

I‘m sorry that you had that with yours. Mine has been perfect from day one. Perhaps get Apple to replace it under warranty?

 

[Quu]

Yes. The title of the thread was provocative because I ordered the display as soon as it was announced and was one of the first to get it. In between ordering it and when I got it, I watched and read every single review that I could find about it. At one point I even though about canceling the order.

When I got it, I thought I may as well plug it in and give it a go and then return it if it sucked. I was absolutely (and continue to be) delighted with it. It’s stunning. I was caught off guard by just how good it was. After the reviews I was expecting it to be junk.

The display quality is better than many claimed “HDR” monitors. It integrates really well with MacOS and is everything that other displays that I had bought and returned were not. The color accuracy is exceptional to my non color professional eyes and the 5K resolution looks better than any of the 4K displays that went back to the store. And the speakers - Just wow. No need to clutter my desk with computer speakers. The webcam is adequate and I only use it for work. My coworkers wouldn’t appreciate me looking any better or worse on a Zoom or Teams call...

I do think it’s too expensive. But it has been one of those instances where the value proposition has been enough (just) to offset the cost. There is an intangible Apple’y quality to it. It is like comparing a MacBook to a high end Dell or Lenovo laptop at the same price point. The specs do not tell the story.



I‘m sorry that you had that with yours. Mine has been perfect from day one. Perhaps get Apple to replace it under warranty?

You know there's a saying in review circles "There are no bad products, just bad prices." while I don't really prescribe to that mantra (there for sure are completely useless/broken/bad products that exist) you have to think of the Studio display in the context of its price.

In your comment you said "I do think it's too expensive." and yeah it is. That's the crux of the issue. It has one core feature that is absolutely brilliant, the 5K IPS panel.

But it's still only a 2017 panel which means.

1. It doesn't use IPS Black technology which restricts its contrast to 1000:1 instead of 2000:1
2. It doesn't have any kind of HDR backlight, no MiniLED FALD system etc
3. It's still only 60Hz and has no variable refresh rate technology
4. Its bezels are actually quite thick due to the panel being so old, modern panels have bezels 1/2 to 1/3rd this thickness.

Those three things at $1,599 are hard enough to stomach before you get into the Apple design decisions like an unremovable power cord, not being able to VESA mount it if you buy the stand version or use a stand if you get the VESA mount version. The price goes to $1,999 if you want an adjustable stand with more movement than just tilting up and down.

I get that for some the 5K @ 27" size is worth all of these trade-offs but that's a very small amount of people. This is why the reviews were so harsh, it had 1 good feature which is the 5K resolution. But to get that you have to spend 2-3x more than a 4K 27" and deal with the downsides of a 5-year-old panel combined with Apple's decisions regarding the stand and power cable.

I would even go as far to say that I prefer having a 4K 144Hz capable panel than I would a 5K 60Hz one. The motion clarity is that good, I mean some arguments have been made in this thread by others that you don't need more than 60Hz and that anything higher than that is for gamers. To that I say, Apple is shipping MacBook Pro's with 120Hz native panels and have done so for more than a year. I have not played a single game on my 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max and I love that displays motion clarity every single day, I will never ever go back to 60Hz haha

I do think though that people should be able to make their own decisions and there's nothing wrong with buying a product that is a bad value. The 5K Studio Display should either have had more features to justify its price or had a lower price commiserate with the features on offer. As it is, I think it should be priced around $799 and if it didn't have the Apple brand tax that's likely where it would sit.

 

[tstafford]

As it is, I think it should be priced around $799 and if it didn't have the Apple brand tax that's likely where it would sit.

We'll find out soon enough if that's the case. Because Samsung sure doesn't have the reputation nor the tax of Apple. So hopefully you are right and there will soon be a 5K display at $799. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Quu]

We'll find out soon enough if that's the case. Because Samsung sure doesn't have the reputation nor the tax of Apple. So hopefully you are right and there will soon be a 5K display at $799. I'm not holding my breath.

Based on Samsung's quality (of their monitors specifically) I wouldn't buy one.

However, unlike Apple, Samsungs stuff does get discounted heavily. American Express in the UK is offering 20% off any purchase from Samsung direct up to £200 when spending over £799 etc

You can usually get a Samsung flagship phone for 50% off only 2-3 months after launch. Try getting that with Apple on well any product they sell, it's nigh impossible.

Similar story with Dell, they're launching a 6K 32" panel soon (shown at CES) I can get 20% off with American Express on their store on any purchase over £750 currently and I've gotten monitors from them at steep discounts even without the credit card deals.

The U2723UQ I have now (really amazing 4K IPS Black display etc) I paid £499 when it was retailing for over £750 just by buying from a retailer instead of Dell directly.

 

[tstafford]

Similar story with Dell, they're launching a 6K 32" panel soon (shown at CES) I can get 20% off with American Express on their store on any purchase over £750 currently and I've gotten monitors from them at steep discounts even without the credit card deals.

Interested to see the price on this one. I'd love a 6K 32" but don't want to buy an XDR. I'm a bit bummed the Dell will only be 60Hz and 450 nits of SD brightness. Want to see the price - needs to be compelling with those specs and design.

 

[profcutter]

Yes. The title of the thread was provocative because I ordered the display as soon as it was announced and was one of the first to get it. In between ordering it and when I got it, I watched and read every single review that I could find about it. At one point I even though about canceling the order.

When I got it, I thought I may as well plug it in and give it a go and then return it if it sucked. I was absolutely (and continue to be) delighted with it. It’s stunning. I was caught off guard by just how good it was. After the reviews I was expecting it to be junk.

The display quality is better than many claimed “HDR” monitors. It integrates really well with MacOS and is everything that other displays that I had bought and returned were not. The color accuracy is exceptional to my non color professional eyes and the 5K resolution looks better than any of the 4K displays that went back to the store. And the speakers - Just wow. No need to clutter my desk with computer speakers. The webcam is adequate and I only use it for work. My coworkers wouldn’t appreciate me looking any better or worse on a Zoom or Teams call...

I do think it’s too expensive. But it has been one of those instances where the value proposition has been enough (just) to offset the cost. There is an intangible Apple’y quality to it. It is like comparing a MacBook to a high end Dell or Lenovo laptop at the same price point. The specs do not tell the story.



I‘m sorry that you had that with yours. Mine has been perfect from day one. Perhaps get Apple to replace it under warranty?

Right, and good for you for making a provocative post, it got lots of replies. That said, you clearly understand why folks are unhappy with the studio display: too expensive, not enough (or wrong) features. Yes, 5k is great, and yes there are major differences between LCD panels, even IPS panels, a simple glance at a computer store with 4k displays will show that. HDR is only one spec, and a complicated one at that. The IPS display in the studio is a great panel for 2014, and yeah, cheap manufacturers’ displays still look shoddy in comparison.

I have a 2010 Panasonic plasma TV. It’s old, but it looks far better than the 500 dollar cheapy LCD TVs, even the ones that say HDR, and 4k. But put it next to ANY modern OLED, and it’s put to shame. That’s OK, it’s for entertainment, and I like keeping it around. How much would I pay for it now? Maybe 50 dollars. NOT the 1000 that it originally cost. The problem is, if we’re being generous, the Studio panel is 6 years old. Lots of things have changed in that time, as evident when you have an MBP attached to the studio display: the new MBP display, blooming and all, looks sharper and has more saturated colors and deeper blacks than the studio display. For the price they’re asking, it’s a little stingy to not improve the real specs that matter on the monitor: the display. Obviously, the best situation would be an OLED or MicroLED display, but barring that, even a good MiniLED display would be an improvement.

I guess what I’m saying is, I can’t fault you for making a thread that people obviously want to respond to, and it’s a good place for this discussion. I guess I’m just overly fixated on the idea that you are “genuinely surprised,” I mean, you’re not genuinely surprised are you? My fault for getting fixated on minutiae.

 

[Zest28]

There is nothing overpriced about this monitor. If you are into digital media creation and your customers use Apple devices, it's either this or the Pro XDR that are your best options.

Heck, I saw a small local design shop with many Apple Studio Displays on their desks, so they have no problem paying the price for these displays.

There are plenty of very expensive monitors that have "poor specs" with even very low brightness. Now I'm sure you guys will call these monitors super overpriced. But those very expensive monitors do have a particular use case for a certain group of people.

 

[profcutter]

There is nothing overpriced about this monitor. If you are into digital media creation and your customers use Apple devices, it's either this or the Pro XDR that are your best options.

Heck, I saw a small local design shop with many Apple Studio Displays on their desks, so they have no problem paying the price for these displays.

There are plenty of very expensive monitors that have "poor specs" with even very low brightness. Now I'm sure you guys will call these monitors super overpriced. But those very expensive monitors do have a particular use case for a certain group of people.

You can overpay for anything: that’s how capitalism works, the market determines the maximum price. The point isn’t that you can’t spend too much for something else and get too little, it’s that tech should move forward not stagnate. The studio display would have made more sense if it was released in 2015 or so. Now that there are other better display technologies available, the price is at a premium. And sure you can point to businesses that buy things like the studio display in bulk. Good for them. They make enough profit that spending time figuring out the best best best monitor for a couple hundred less often isn’t worth the time. They could also afford 5 thousand dollar iMac Pros, and up to 50k Mac pros. That’s not the same market we’re talking about. Yes, the reality is that if you want a 5k display, you’re locked into 3 options, and the tech seems to have stagnated. Thus the negative responses.

 

[CalMin]

You know there's a saying in review circles "There are no bad products, just bad prices." while I don't really prescribe to that mantra (there for sure are completely useless/broken/bad products that exist) you have to think of the Studio display in the context of its price.

In your comment you said "I do think it's too expensive." and yeah it is. That's the crux of the issue. It has one core feature that is absolutely brilliant, the 5K IPS panel.

But it's still only a 2017 panel which means.

1. It doesn't use IPS Black technology which restricts its contrast to 1000:1 instead of 2000:1
2. It doesn't have any kind of HDR backlight, no MiniLED FALD system etc
3. It's still only 60Hz and has no variable refresh rate technology
4. Its bezels are actually quite thick due to the panel being so old, modern panels have bezels 1/2 to 1/3rd this thickness.

Those three things at $1,599 are hard enough to stomach before you get into the Apple design decisions like an unremovable power cord, not being able to VESA mount it if you buy the stand version or use a stand if you get the VESA mount version. The price goes to $1,999 if you want an adjustable stand with more movement than just tilting up and down.

I get that for some the 5K @ 27" size is worth all of these trade-offs but that's a very small amount of people. This is why the reviews were so harsh, it had 1 good feature which is the 5K resolution. But to get that you have to spend 2-3x more than a 4K 27" and deal with the downsides of a 5-year-old panel combined with Apple's decisions regarding the stand and power cable.

I would even go as far to say that I prefer having a 4K 144Hz capable panel than I would a 5K 60Hz one. The motion clarity is that good, I mean some arguments have been made in this thread by others that you don't need more than 60Hz and that anything higher than that is for gamers. To that I say, Apple is shipping MacBook Pro's with 120Hz native panels and have done so for more than a year. I have not played a single game on my 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max and I love that displays motion clarity every single day, I will never ever go back to 60Hz haha

I do think though that people should be able to make their own decisions and there's nothing wrong with buying a product that is a bad value. The 5K Studio Display should either have had more features to justify its price or had a lower price commiserate with the features on offer. As it is, I think it should be priced around $799 and if it didn't have the Apple brand tax that's likely where it would sit.

Your points are valid but are they based on actual experience with the display over a few days/weeks? All of my comments come from using the display as my main display for some weeks and months. The spec. sheet of the ASD doesn't compare favorably with other manufacturers. In the same way that an Android phone might have more impressive specs than an iPhone - there is more to it than what is written on paper.

Price is objective. The price of the display is objectively bad when compared spec. to spec. There is no arguing that.

Value, however, is subjective. I think the ASD has provided excellent value for me. I returned multiple 4K monitors before I got this one - many of them with better specifications on paper. None were subjectively as good as the ASD and therefore despite a lower price, none offered comparable value.

Right, and good for you for making a provocative post, it got lots of replies. That said, you clearly understand why folks are unhappy with the studio display: too expensive, not enough (or wrong) features. Yes, 5k is great, and yes there are major differences between LCD panels, even IPS panels, a simple glance at a computer store with 4k displays will show that. HDR is only one spec, and a complicated one at that. The IPS display in the studio is a great panel for 2014, and yeah, cheap manufacturers’ displays still look shoddy in comparison.

I have a 2010 Panasonic plasma TV. It’s old, but it looks far better than the 500 dollar cheapy LCD TVs, even the ones that say HDR, and 4k. But put it next to ANY modern OLED, and it’s put to shame. That’s OK, it’s for entertainment, and I like keeping it around. How much would I pay for it now? Maybe 50 dollars. NOT the 1000 that it originally cost. The problem is, if we’re being generous, the Studio panel is 6 years old. Lots of things have changed in that time, as evident when you have an MBP attached to the studio display: the new MBP display, blooming and all, looks sharper and has more saturated colors and deeper blacks than the studio display. For the price they’re asking, it’s a little stingy to not improve the real specs that matter on the monitor: the display. Obviously, the best situation would be an OLED or MicroLED display, but barring that, even a good MiniLED display would be an improvement.

I guess what I’m saying is, I can’t fault you for making a thread that people obviously want to respond to, and it’s a good place for this discussion. I guess I’m just overly fixated on the idea that you are “genuinely surprised,” I mean, you’re not genuinely surprised are you? My fault for getting fixated on minutiae.

Believe it not, my intent for this post was not to be provocative. I went back and re-read my initial thoughts and, I really did regret ordering the ASD after I watched all of the reviews. I kept in in the box for a bit when it arrived instead of ripping it open and setting it up like I do with any other package from Apple! But then, when I unboxed and used it for a few days it started to make sense. It's stunning and possibly the best display I have ever used.

Yes - it's expensive, but so is so much of what Apple makes, and if you're in the Apple ecosystem, it integrates beautifully. Little touches like being able to adjust brightness from the keyboard, speakers that are good enough for me to move the HomePod out of my home office and back into another room. Clear, crisp, text, color that matches my MacBook display right out of the box.

Just the color calibration alone is something that I could never get right with any other manufacturer. There's an Apple way of doing things that works with this display. Anyone who has attempted to calibrate a Dell monitor will know just how tedious it is to get right and then to not fuss after the fact. I am, admittedly, not a graphics Pro, but when my monitors don't match, it really bugs me...

My point throughout this thread is that everyone acts like the display sucks (no promotion, no HDR, no this, no that) and the fact is, that it does not. It is not for everyone and it does require pockets deep enough to live with how much it costs. But, if you can afford this thing, you will see that it's a premium product, not some crappy low price panel dressed up with Apple tax!

 

[Quu]

Your points are valid but are they based on actual experience with the display over a few days/weeks? All of my comments come from using the display as my main display for some weeks and months.

I don't need to use a monitor for days or weeks to identify its flaws. The lack of a removable power cable, the lack of native VESA mounting, the inability to change the mount at all after purchase etc

The spec. sheet of the ASD doesn't compare favorably with other manufacturers. In the same way that an Android phone might have more impressive specs than an iPhone - there is more to it than what is written on paper.

I mean this just tells me you bought the wrong displays. The studio display uses a panel from LG, an old panel that they've already surpassed with IPS Black technology. There are also OLED displays and MiniLED equipped displays with over 1,000 local dimming zones etc

Price is objective. The price of the display is objectively bad when compared spec. to spec. There is no arguing that.

Indeed, it is objectively bad when compared with monitors that have standard features like a removable power cord. And displays that come with really great stands that allow for swivel, height adjustment and tilt OR the mounting of VESA-compatible arms and mounts.

Value, however, is subjective. I think the ASD has provided excellent value for me. I returned multiple 4K monitors before I got this one - many of them with better specifications on paper. None were subjectively as good as the ASD and therefore despite a lower price, none offered comparable value.

Again you just bought the wrong monitors. I mean try a Dell U2723QE for better contrast, it looks incredible. Or try one of the OLED ultrawides like the Alienware AW3423DW for per-pixel dimming etc - The 5K wins in resolution and text clarity due to its high pixel density and RGB sub-pixel layout over the Alienware but it loses in refresh rate, contrast, peak brightness, and its lack of true HDR capability. And that's not including flexibility in usage (due to the non-removable power cord and poor mount options post-purchase). That's a lot of downsides, unfortunately.

It's kinda crazy that I could buy 3 x Dell U2723QE's for the price of one Studio Display with the height adjustable stand (which comes standard with all the Dells U2723QE's of course). It's just terrible value for what is essentially a commodity.

I don't think the comparison between Android phones and iPhones is really appropriate because there the software dominates the experience. This is more like comparing keyboards or mice, it's really not all that subjective. I mean you either want the 5K resolution and are willing to give up all those other specifications and features or you feel 4K is good enough at the resolution level and keep literally every other desirable feature of a monitor.

I will say this, had the Studio Display had full-array local dimming on the level of a MacBook Pro like my 16" M1 Max I would have paid up to $2,999 for one instantly. Shame they left that out, there were signs in the teardown that it was a possibility and they scraped it and that is a real shame.

 

[Zest28]

You can overpay for anything: that’s how capitalism works, the market determines the maximum price. The point isn’t that you can’t spend too much for something else and get too little, it’s that tech should move forward not stagnate. The studio display would have made more sense if it was released in 2015 or so. Now that there are other better display technologies available, the price is at a premium. And sure you can point to businesses that buy things like the studio display in bulk. Good for them. They make enough profit that spending time figuring out the best best best monitor for a couple hundred less often isn’t worth the time. They could also afford 5 thousand dollar iMac Pros, and up to 50k Mac pros. That’s not the same market we’re talking about. Yes, the reality is that if you want a 5k display, you’re locked into 3 options, and the tech seems to have stagnated. Thus the negative responses.

You are clearly not even the target audience when you keep bringing up display technology. Just buy a gaming monitor instead if you want the latest technologies if that is what your priorities are. They have mini-LED and OLED with promotion that you can buy.

It's just like people calling headphones like the Sennheiser HD 600/650 overpriced because it lacks features like ANC and bluetooth. While for studio use, these headphones are way superior than those headphones with the latest features and easily worth the money.

 

[jabbr]

I don't think the Sennheiser HD 600 / 650 analogy really works. For one, they are very affordable given their sound quality and build, often being compared to $1000+ headphones. They've also withstood the test of time for 2 decades now. I suppose audio technology has slowed to a crawl, moving at an even slower pace than consumer displays lol.

The Studio Display is old tech for a steep price. There's no way around that fact. The only reason it can exist as a product is because the entire monitor market is a total joke. Only recently are we finally seeing some momentum. MiniLED monitors are becoming widely available this year, likely accompanied by an updated 27" apple display.

 

[Zest28]

I don't think the Sennheiser HD 600 / 650 analogy really works. For one, they are very affordable given their sound quality and build, often being compared to $1000+ headphones. They've also withstood the test of time for 2 decades now. I suppose audio technology has slowed to a crawl, moving at an even slower pace than consumer displays lol.

The Studio Display is old tech for a steep price. There's no way around that fact. The only reason it can exist as a product is because the entire monitor market is a total joke. Only recently are we finally seeing some momentum. MiniLED monitors are becoming widely available this year, likely accompanied by an updated 27" apple display.

I simply used Sennheiser because that is what most people on MacRumors would know, but I can give a better analogy.

Marroquin, who won many grammy awards with #1 hits, uses $5000 “old tech” Audeze headphones which is missing features like bluetooth, ANC and spatial audio. He has now also launched his own professional “old tech” headphone recently at a bit cheaper price, around $1700.

These new bluetooth ANC headphones with spatial audio with the latest tech don’t compete with professional “old tech” headphones, they are targetting a different use case. These headphones are certaintly not overpriced for a certain group of people who actually need such professional “old tech” headphones for their work.

 

[profcutter]

I simply used Sennheiser because that is what most people on MacRumors would know, but I can give a better analogy.

Marroquin, who won many grammy awards with #1 hits, uses $5000 “old tech” Audeze headphones which is missing features like bluetooth, ANC and spatial audio. He has now also launched his own professional “old tech” headphone recently at a bit cheaper price, around $1700.

These new bluetooth ANC headphones with spatial audio with the latest tech don’t compete with professional “old tech” headphones, they are targetting a different use case. These headphones are certaintly not overpriced for a certain group of people who actually need such professional “old tech” headphones for their work.

Again, the analogy just doesn’t work. I’ve used Akg 240m’s for over 20 years. You don’t even want to know how old my Neumann shotgun mic is, or the sound devices recorder I use. It’s not the geegaws or gimmicks that make the difference. It’s that display technology is getting objectively better. Better Grey to grey response, deeper blacks, better color gamuts.

I don’t really care about higher frame rates, I’ve been stuck at 24 fps since my first DV camera. But I can damn sure tell the difference between watching high quality 10 bit footage on an old iMac screen vs on a screen with new display tech like the ones I mentioned.

As I pointed out above, there is marketing and there is reality. Rarely the twain shall meet. IPS displays run the gamut from barely viewable to quite good. The iMac 27 inch and studio displays were the latter, certainly at the high end of what IPS can offer. But times are changing. Just like when apple claimed the 6k display blew production monitors out of the water: it didn’t. A 50k Sony production monitor is quite simply a better display for precise editing than an apple 6k.

Apple’s marketing is also trying to convince folks that a 10 year old display - IPS, no local dimming, 5k - is worth 1500 and more. The negative reviews come back when people are pointing out that yeah, now is time for an upgrade, not the same old, albeit high quality, older tech. Hence my plasma analogy, which is far more appropriate.

 

[Zest28]

Again, the analogy just doesn’t work. I’ve used Akg 240m’s for over 20 years. You don’t even want to know how old my Neumann shotgun mic is, or the sound devices recorder I use. It’s not the geegaws or gimmicks that make the difference. It’s that display technology is getting objectively better. Better Grey to grey response, deeper blacks, better color gamuts.

I don’t really care about higher frame rates, I’ve been stuck at 24 fps since my first DV camera. But I can damn sure tell the difference between watching high quality 10 bit footage on an old iMac screen vs on a screen with new display tech like the ones I mentioned.

As I pointed out above, there is marketing and there is reality. Rarely the twain shall meet. IPS displays run the gamut from barely viewable to quite good. The iMac 27 inch and studio displays were the latter, certainly at the high end of what IPS can offer. But times are changing. Just like when apple claimed the 6k display blew production monitors out of the water: it didn’t. A 50k Sony production monitor is quite simply a better display for precise editing than an apple 6k.

Apple’s marketing is also trying to convince folks that a 10 year old display - IPS, no local dimming, 5k - is worth 1500 and more. The negative reviews come back when people are pointing out that yeah, now is time for an upgrade, not the same old, albeit high quality, older tech. Hence my plasma analogy, which is far more appropriate.

Thanks for proving my point exactly. You think a $5000 Audeze headphone makes no difference and that is because you are not the target audience.

Me myself, I own $12.000 DAC's even with a few $4000 headphones myself, including your cheaper AKG 240 (was my 1st headphone when I started producing), and I know exactly how most people will say how useless this stuff is and makes no difference.

All I am saying is, there are plenty expensive displays that are not made for "content consumption" and high-refresh is not needed. In fact, some of these "poor features" are intentional as low brightness monitors are more accurate for print, then high brightness monitors. This is why you see that some have them have external screen to block external lights coming on the displays, as they don't have a very high brightness. We might say they are overpriced, but for a certain group of people, it's exactly what they need and worth it to them.

 

[jabbr]

Thanks for proving my point exactly. You think a $5000 Audeze headphone makes no difference and that is because you are not the target audience.

Me myself, I own $12.000 DAC's even with a few $4000 headphones myself, including your cheaper AKG 240 (was my 1st headphone when I started producing), and I know exactly how most people will say how useless this stuff is. But I know the difference and I actually do need it.

do a level-matched ABX test of your $12000 DAC vs $9 Apple dongle and get back to us.

 

[Zest28]

do a level-matched ABX test of your $12000 DAC vs $9 Apple dongle and get back to us.

Thanks for proving my point again.